Video Capture Devices

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:30 pm

Blackmagic Intensity looks pretty damn nice at $199, but it is USB3.0

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wcfields
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Post by wcfields » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:32 pm

creatorlars wrote:Blackmagic Intensity looks pretty damn nice at $199, but it is USB3.0
If one finds themselves needing lots of USB 3.0 peripherals they can get a Sonnet Echo ExpressCard/34 adapter, stick an ExpressCard to USB 3.0 adapter in it.

But, chances are with real-time capture you'd run into issues and you're adding extra cost with all the adapters.

A Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt is only $239.
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Post by giorgio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:47 pm

wcfields wrote: A Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt is only $239.
seems like it might just be the best bet in the price range if ya got thunderbolt but not a decent capture card. gonna pick up the thunderbolt blackmagic shuttle, as long as initial reactions come back positive enough... in the meantime I got a $30 usb igrabber, which after a few trials, is running ok in h264 mode, standard def of course.
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Post by smrl » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:44 pm

re: windows&usb capture - Watch out for blackmagic & USB3 - they are very picky about which chipset you use! Tried the UltraStudio SDI and couldn't get it to work with any of my work machines w/ usb3. I believe there's a specific manufacturer/chipset needed.

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Post by smrl » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:50 pm

Also watch out for ExpressCard expanders for USB3 - Tried that as well, but depending on the ExpressCard slot (which I believe is just PCIe in a different form factor) there may not be enough lanes for the bandwidth you need for video capture. I don't recall specifics at the moment. I was looking at uncompressed HD SDI capture, which is obviously far more demanding than SD. Just something to watch out for...

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Post by wcfields » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:23 am

Do any of the mentioned cards do simultaneous in and out of video?

Has anyone used them with VJ software?
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Post by lizlarsen » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:42 am

Do any of the mentioned cards do simultaneous in and out of video?
No... and you'd have to have software that supported it, if so. This is something a lot of us are struggling with a solution for right now, I think.

I've used the ADVC300 as a generic firewire device as an input to VJ software before, but I don't think you can use the Blackmagic or Matrox in that manner, or as an output. But I'm not really sure.

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Post by wcfields » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:33 pm

creatorlars wrote:
Do any of the mentioned cards do simultaneous in and out of video?
No... and you'd have to have software that supported it, if so. This is something a lot of us are struggling with a solution for right now, I think.
I know there exists USB->VGA/DVI devices that have been rated from Ok to Shit. Some reviewers have said that the above linked one can do 1080p (though it can be jerky at times).

Makes me curious about using Modul8 to take input from a handful of devices (Firewire DV & Thunderbolt) and then outputting to a handful of devices (Thunderbolt -> VGA, and USB -> VGA). Probably not having any USB capture devices as the USB->VGA will probably soak all available bandwidth.
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Post by lizlarsen » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Yeah, it would be so nice to have a video output via USB (or USB3) that could do a pixel-for-pixel 720x480 output via component or otherwise.

We've talked about doing an LZX module that just connected directly to a computer via USB cable for output. It would just decode the video data into an RGB output stream. But it's a very complicated and expensive project. We're just trying to get all the standard I/O cases taken care of with Triple Video Interface and Color Video Decoder & Frame Synchronizer first.

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Post by nickciontea » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

First capture from my new Matrox MX02 Mini.

composite -> h.264 upscale
imac, thunderbolt, matrox vetura capture software

fullscreen ditches the letterbox. On to tweaking the process. Thanks for the recommendations.

[video][/video]

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Post by lizlarsen » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:05 pm

Nice patch!
S-Video output will give you the best signal path, FWIW.
Did you upload in HD? I'm not seeing an HD button on this vimeo clip.

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Post by deastman » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:22 pm

We're not really capturing analog video much anymore. For the most part, its SDI into AJA Kona 3G, or ingesting from P2 cards and CF cards. Depending on the show, everything is conformed to 1080P or 720P 59.94. We've been a Final Cut 7 house for a long time, but we're discussing moving to Premiere Pro, since Production Premium is already installed in the edit suites.

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Post by nickciontea » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:36 pm

creatorlars wrote:Nice patch!
S-Video output will give you the best signal path, FWIW.
Did you upload in HD? I'm not seeing an HD button on this vimeo clip.
vimeo says that one is at 720. I didn't get the s-video in .. only composite so far. not sure why svideo didn't register on the computer

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Post by johnnywoods » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:08 pm

nickciontea wrote:First capture from my new Matrox MX02 Mini.

composite -> h.264 upscale
imac, thunderbolt, matrox vetura capture software

fullscreen ditches the letterbox. On to tweaking the process. Thanks for the
You should avoid capturing to h264 if you plan on doing any further processing or editing. It's better to capture to ProRes or uncompressed if you can.

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Post by johnnywoods » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:10 pm

nickciontea wrote:
creatorlars wrote:Nice patch!
S-Video output will give you the best signal path, FWIW.
Did you upload in HD? I'm not seeing an HD button on this vimeo clip.
vimeo says that one is at 720. I didn't get the s-video in .. only composite so far. not sure why svideo didn't register on the computer
You need to use that funny cable (s-video to dual RCA) that came with the mxo2. Then, just use the composite settings on the software side.

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Post by nickciontea » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:52 pm

yup just got the svideo going..

ill try the ProRes


still needs some tweaking looks pretty glitchy with the horizontal. this was exported h.264 then uploaded to vimeo manually

[video][/video]

this one was uploaded with FCPX's vimeo export. Same video as above. same capture

[video][/video]

last one for the night. added the interlace option "top field first". this was a fresh capture

and here is the FCPX "vimeo" export of the above video
Last edited by nickciontea on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by lizlarsen » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:38 pm

looking good, love that patch... nice keyer feedback and color palette. the middle looks cleanest to me at first glance.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:00 pm

So is there a quality advantage to going with:

a Composite to Component/RGsB converter
+
Matrox Mini

vs.

Composite/S.Video > Canopus ADVC 110

???

I thought Component was supposed to look a little nicer than Composite,
but the first choice is more than twice the price of the second...

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Post by lizlarsen » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:00 am

Why would you need the Composite to Component/RGsB converter? The Matrox can capture Composite and S-Video. I typically capture my LZX using S-Video on my Matrox Mini.

The Matrox's primary advantages over the ADVC are the lack of compression (ADVC is DV format), double color depth (4:2:2 instead of 4:1:1) and all the different hardware up/downscale options.

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Post by daverj » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:33 am

Component is better IF you start with component. Converting composite to component and then digitizing that is really no better than digitizing composite in the first place. And maybe a little worse since you did a double conversion (composite to digital RGB vs composite to component to digital RGB)

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Post by Tall Midget » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:30 pm

Can somebody tell me how to upscale with the MXO2 Mini? I'm assuming it's something you do in software right? I'm using the Adobe CS6 Suite, capturing in the Matrox software through S-Video @ 720p/60fps.

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Post by johnnywoods » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Tall Midget wrote:Can somebody tell me how to upscale with the MXO2 Mini? I'm assuming it's something you do in software right? I'm using the Adobe CS6 Suite, capturing in the Matrox software through S-Video @ 720p/60fps.
Well, if you're capturing S-video at 720p/60, you're already upscaling. The Matrox performs hardware upscaling, but the interface is software. Looks like you've got it sorted out though, or else your captures would be 480i, 29.97. On a Mac, there is an option in the System Preferences for the Matrox to "Scale input to capture". This enables the hardware upscaling. On a PC, I'm not sure.

If I were you, I'd use a 29.97 frame rate, though. Capturing at 60 doesn't add anything to the image except unnecessary file size. It just captures each frame twice.

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Post by daverj » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:26 pm

johnnywoods wrote: If I were you, I'd use a 29.97 frame rate, though. Capturing at 60 doesn't add anything to the image except unnecessary file size. It just captures each frame twice.
That depends on the source. A camera with interlaced video will often have different images in each field, so if the upscaling does line doubling on the fields and turns each field into a frame then there is actually an advantage to capturing at 60Hz.

While technically the frame rate of 480i is 29.97, it's actually vertical refresh rate is 59.94

On the other hand if the camera actually captures images as full frames at 29.9 and then simply feeds each interlaced half out during the fields, then there is no real advantage to converting fields to frames.

So it depends on the source.

Move an object past the camera quickly and see if it is in different positions in each field. If so, upscaling fields to frames can be a good thing.

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Post by johnnywoods » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:51 pm

daverj wrote: On the other hand if the camera actually captures images as full frames at 29.9 and then simply feeds each interlaced half out during the fields, then there is no real advantage to converting fields to frames.
The op said he was capturing at 720p, which suggests a full-frame capture, no?
Good to know for interlaced ingest though!

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Post by daverj » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:07 pm

It wasn't clear what the original source was. I took his comment to mean that his capture setting was 720/60p, not that the source material was that. I may have misunderstood.

Plus I guess it depends on how the capture device converts interlaced to progressive. If it does fields to frames, and the source has fields created at different times, there is an advantage. If it does frames to frames, then it is just doubling the frames, so no advantage. And if the source is created as frames, again no advantage.

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