Video Capture Devices

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe., daverj

User avatar
Tall Midget
Extra Value Super-Premium Wiggler
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by Tall Midget » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:19 pm

Thanks for clarifying guys, I wasn't sure if I could upscale the 720p to 1080p or something. When I playback the Matrox videos through the MXO2's HDMI port on a nice HDTV, this looks a lot better than viewing the captured 720p footage on the computer. Can anybody tell me why that is? I believe there's options to upscale the output monitor video that's coming out of the MXO2 to 1080p in Premiere which I think what makes it looks better. I thought there was a way to upscale that way using the simultaneously playback and capture feature of the MXO2.

I've been capturing the LZX Visionary at 60 FPS, so you guys are telling me there's no difference between that and 29.97 FPS? I can't believe i've been wasting twice as much hard disk space this whole time. I could've sworn I noticed a difference. I believe my digital video camera that I run into the LZX is AVCHD and shoots at 60 FPS, does that make any difference? I could be wrong about the frame-rate though; I don't have the camera with me.

User avatar
johnnywoods
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:10 pm
Location: Santa Fe

Post by johnnywoods » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:16 pm

Well, could you describe what your capture workflow is? Your camera's native framerate is not significant, because once you run it through the LZX, it is a 29.97 interlaced signal. The big question is how you are capturing with the matrox. Your posts are a little confusing on this point.

What I assume you are doing is upscaling to 720p on capture. In this case, the 29.97 vs 60i setting shouldn't make a noticeable difference in quality since it is capturing frames as opposed to fields (although I may be wrong here, but that is my experience). The Matrox should be passing through whatever signal you are upscaling to on capture. During capture, you should be seeing 720p on your Matrox output. There is no setting for this, it is automatic.
1080p will look better than 720p since there are way more pixels. Also, your HDTV will likely look better than your computer monitor for a variety of reasons. Why don't you just capture at 1080p? The Matrox can do that.

User avatar
Tall Midget
Extra Value Super-Premium Wiggler
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by Tall Midget » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:57 pm

Hey Johnny, thanks for your help. I'm capturing s-video output from the LZX to the Matrox MXO2. I'll have to check the options in the Matrox software to see if I can capture in 1080p, I must've missed that. I should know that it is a 29.97 interlaced signal because i've heard Lars say that in person before. I thought it was higher than that because the LZX video is so smooth and responsive for whatever reason. Thanks again.

User avatar
daverj
Vintage Video Wiggler
Posts: 8514
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:09 am

Post by daverj » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:09 pm

Converting image processed analog video to HD can often benefit from converting fields to frames. There are a number of reasons it can end up giving you smoother motion. I'll try to write up a tutorial thread about it over the next day or two explaining the variables involved.

User avatar
mmelnick
No melody, no harmony
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield Gardens NYC

Post by mmelnick » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:53 pm

I'm debating between the Canopus and the Matrox. Seems like the Matrox might be the better investment in the long term. How would I use it with a MacBook Pro pre-Thunderbolt?
matthewmelnick.com
metrono.me
bloodofazombie.com
darksidenyc.com
myworld.ebay.com/brooklyn_collectables

User avatar
johnnywoods
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:10 pm
Location: Santa Fe

Post by johnnywoods » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:08 pm

mmelnick wrote:I'm debating between the Canopus and the Matrox. Seems like the Matrox might be the better investment in the long term. How would I use it with a MacBook Pro pre-Thunderbolt?
You can get a PCMCIA interface for the MXO2 mini. Assuming your MBP has that option:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... ptops.html

And yes, it is a better investment. Higher quality, even at SD resolutions, more codec choices, and of course, HD upscaling.

User avatar
mmelnick
No melody, no harmony
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield Gardens NYC

Post by mmelnick » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:34 pm

The Blackmagic Design Intensity for USB 3 looks pretty cool.
matthewmelnick.com
metrono.me
bloodofazombie.com
darksidenyc.com
myworld.ebay.com/brooklyn_collectables

User avatar
Cat-A-Tonic
Lobsters love Muff
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 am
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:42 pm

I finally picked up a second hand Matrox Mini Max. :banana:

It is all hooked up to my desktop PC, and working perfectly.

I only have the PCIe connector though,
and I may have to pass clips over to the MacBook sometimes for processing.

You should see an increase in output from me soon.

User avatar
mmelnick
No melody, no harmony
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield Gardens NYC

Post by mmelnick » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:54 pm

johnnywoods wrote:
mmelnick wrote:I'm debating between the Canopus and the Matrox. Seems like the Matrox might be the better investment in the long term. How would I use it with a MacBook Pro pre-Thunderbolt?
You can get a PCMCIA interface for the MXO2 mini. Assuming your MBP has that option:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... ptops.html

And yes, it is a better investment. Higher quality, even at SD resolutions, more codec choices, and of course, HD upscaling.
It doesn't have PCMCIA :( just Firewire 800 and USB. It's a 6.2 Core i7 2.66 GHz
matthewmelnick.com
metrono.me
bloodofazombie.com
darksidenyc.com
myworld.ebay.com/brooklyn_collectables

User avatar
mmelnick
No melody, no harmony
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield Gardens NYC

Post by mmelnick » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:55 pm

I need more suggestions if I can't make the Matrox work with my Macbook. What else is as good as the Matrox or close?
matthewmelnick.com
metrono.me
bloodofazombie.com
darksidenyc.com
myworld.ebay.com/brooklyn_collectables

arnoux
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:53 am
Location: Lisbon

Post by arnoux » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:26 am

Hey people what about this one?
http://www.motu.com/video-products/hd-e ... aptop.html

It works with the expresscard slot for laptops..

Any thoughts?

User avatar
mmelnick
No melody, no harmony
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield Gardens NYC

Post by mmelnick » Tue May 28, 2013 10:49 am

Still debating capture devices. The Matrox MXO2 w Max looks like the best, but it requires an additional Thunderbolt interface for me, which adds $199 to the price to make it about $699 and thats pretty pricey. I see a lot of people complaining about the Blackmagic stuff so i'm not too psyched about getting one of those. Wish I could find something close to the Matrox that's under $500.
matthewmelnick.com
metrono.me
bloodofazombie.com
darksidenyc.com
myworld.ebay.com/brooklyn_collectables

User avatar
nickciontea
brownshoesonly
Posts: 1268
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by nickciontea » Tue May 28, 2013 12:21 pm

in my thoughts the MAX version is not needed. I believe its just for direct h264 encoding support via some hardware.

I have the mxo2 mini thunderbolt. works well.

User avatar
starpause
Common Wiggler
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by starpause » Fri May 31, 2013 11:16 pm

i'm currently using a diamond vc500. i also realized today that i've been recording at 320x240 when it can do up to 720x480, but even at the increased resolution it's pretty crap. at least i won't have to scale all these small captures to make tumblr compatible gifs :roll: example clip here

anyway, now i'm shopping again! looks like mxo2 is the obvious choice since it's tried and true, does 4:2:2, and can upscale cleanly. the mxo2 PCIe is $400 at b&h, compared to $500 for the motu PCIe.

the BMD Intensity usb3 horror stories have me steering clear. i tried a Hauppauge HD PVR 2 for a project at work, getting that thing to work on any machine was a wrestling match, don't want to relive any of that!

nickciontea, what was it like moving from the ADVC110 to the mxo2? astounding difference in quality? i'm sure i'd be blown away by either upgrading from the vc500

User avatar
ObfuscatedVisuals
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:11 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by ObfuscatedVisuals » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:39 am

So I'm now on the quest to find a suitable capturing path, Ideally it would be standalone and the only really workable solution I have found is the Black Magic HyperDeck Studio. The only catch is that I'd need to convert my output to SD to get into it.

I'm also considering building a system around the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle thunderbolt using a motherboard they have specified. I have a laptop that uses the usb3 drivers they the usb version requires but I don't want to rely on the laptop.. it's been pretty shaky lately.

Either way I'll end up spending the same amount of cash but I'd beable to do other things on the PC besides capture.

I've look at alot of devices and I guess there was never much of a market for capturing uncompressed 480i and even though there are some devices that say they will capture 480i via HDMI actually getting an analog to HDMI converter that doesn't upscale is a challenge.

Just for laughs I've ordered a Avermedia Ezrecorder just to see how bad it is. Since I can return it thanks to amazon prime and it's super cheap anyway I figure why not. It is h.264 so I'm anticipating that it will mangle the output from the LZX. I'm converting my svideo out to component using a timebase corrector. Elsewhere I had read about people using their DVD recorders to do this but in my initial test running svideo through the deck then into a component monitor the picture was repeated twice on the screen!

User avatar
starpause
Common Wiggler
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by starpause » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:42 pm

I was looking for a super cheap SD capture solution and after an email thread with echofx.com I wound up with an iGrabber for $30. Had to email echofx one last time to get the latest software for it but worked a charm after that.

I was specifically after something that would show up as a web cam and it does the trick. Quality is as bad as you'd expect but at least it isn't totally broken and consistently syncs video/audio. I used it to capture all the gifs from a booth i had set up last nye running a security camera through lzx+v4 rig into a web app. And example video with audio sync, default record settings.

User avatar
ebbflo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:26 am

Post by ebbflo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:07 am

I am currently using a vestax pbs-4. I bought this a while back when I simply wanted a quick and easy way to stream video/audio.

Now I have a 3trinsrgb+1c and a lzx visual cortex and am really enjoying myself.

I want to capture with more definition and have been considering the matrox mxo2 mini. I'm not too worried about the money but want to make an informed purchase.

In addition, what software would be good to use with the matrox.

Also, before I buy something else, it would be nice to know if I will even get noticeably better results.

For comparison here are a couple of examples:

I did this yesterday and am most happy with it. But its very simple, with little movement.



Here is something else I made a month or so ago. On my local monitor the colors and lines were well defined. I was horrified when watching it back.


giantmecha
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:57 pm
Location: United States

Post by giantmecha » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:04 pm

ebbflo, did you end up going with the mxo2 mini? What software are you using to capture?

User avatar
ebbflo
Common Wiggler
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:26 am

Post by ebbflo » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:17 pm

yes i did. I've been using the included software for capture, It's pretty simple and does what I want for now.

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:47 am

Unfortunately I think I will need a new computer before I can get into a matrox mini as I have an iMac and a MacBook both of which are old enough to still have FireWire (both Pre 2008)

I have an old eyetv thing that that I am going to try out today
sh is the sound of data
bobo is the gesture

PB

giantmecha
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:57 pm
Location: United States

Post by giantmecha » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:11 pm

What I'd really love to figure out would be some sort of workflow where live LZX loops can be captured and looped live, as Ableton Live does for audio. Has anyone sorted out this kind of setup with some combination of Resolume + Matrox MXO2 or some such?

User avatar
kurtbach
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:12 am
Location: australia

Post by kurtbach » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:26 am

Has anyone got those black maGick intensity shuttles to work nice; was playing around with one once and always got strange scan lines... Have a hdd recorder which looks really good on the disk but as soon as it converts to dvd (which is the only way to get the video off) the quAlity goes real shit. How does the mx02 go with lots of noise and feedback... These are things I've allwaYz never quite been satisfied once converted to digital

User avatar
Ty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:28 am

Post by Ty » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:30 pm

(also posted to the LZX FB page)

I just recently tried the Blackmagicdesign Mini Recorder and Analog to SDI converter combo and got nowhere, even after a day of emails back and forth with BMDs decent support. I never got an image from my LZX system into my Mac Book Pro.

I got the Infinity Shuttle (Thunderbolt) to work in minutes. I do not notice the scan lines mentioned above. I was able to bring the signal into VDMX (my goal) so I could further manipulate my image and then back again into my LZX system. Latency seems to be maybe a frame at most when including the V4 into the signal path. I have not done rigorous tests yet.

To my surprise, my BMD support guy said that the quality should be exactly the same with the Intensity Shuttle as my trying to use the two "pro" converters I was originally trying to make work. This method is also cheaper and nothing has to be plugged into AC. (all powered by the Thunderbolt connection) Even though its bigger than either of the other boxes, it is still smaller and lighter than the two of them together.

The only advantage to using the Analog to SDI Converter and the Mini Recorder is that you can go LONG distances with the SDI, so if one got that to work, that is the upside with using that combo.

So I am pretty happy with it so far. It's been less than 24 hrs and I have not taken it out "on the road" so we shall see how it goes from here.

(sorry so long!)

:bananaguitar:

User avatar
cskonopka
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 6:56 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by cskonopka » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:14 pm

Ty wrote:(also posted to the LZX FB page)

I just recently tried the Blackmagicdesign Mini Recorder and Analog to SDI converter combo and got nowhere, even after a day of emails back and forth with BMDs decent support. I never got an image from my LZX system into my Mac Book Pro.

I got the Infinity Shuttle (Thunderbolt) to work in minutes. I do not notice the scan lines mentioned above. I was able to bring the signal into VDMX (my goal) so I could further manipulate my image and then back again into my LZX system. Latency seems to be maybe a frame at most when including the V4 into the signal path. I have not done rigorous tests yet.

To my surprise, my BMD support guy said that the quality should be exactly the same with the Intensity Shuttle as my trying to use the two "pro" converters I was originally trying to make work. This method is also cheaper and nothing has to be plugged into AC. (all powered by the Thunderbolt connection) Even though its bigger than either of the other boxes, it is still smaller and lighter than the two of them together.

The only advantage to using the Analog to SDI Converter and the Mini Recorder is that you can go LONG distances with the SDI, so if one got that to work, that is the upside with using that combo.

So I am pretty happy with it so far. It's been less than 24 hrs and I have not taken it out "on the road" so we shall see how it goes from here.

(sorry so long!)

:bananaguitar:
I fell into that spiral as well but decided to do it right, went all in and got a DeckLink Studio 4K, best decision I've made. Yeah, I don't really have a portable setup right now but I do most of my work at home. If I do travel thought I've been using a Canopous ADVC110, real solid. And I will say, they don't really explain the workflow of the recorder/converters well so it's kinda hard when you are just getting into it. That was the case for me, I wanted to upgrade but ended up messing up but B&H photo is great for stuff like this, amazing return policy.
"The edge is where we live, all of us, all the time. People trying to convince themselves otherwise is just an exercise in self-deception."

/[draining of the brain via IV on instagram : cskonopka]\

User avatar
Ty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:28 am

Post by Ty » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:07 pm

Yeah, good way to go! Obviously, I was looking for a portable solution that I could use with my laptop. I still will stand by BMD, I see their products in production and at post houses all the time and I'm happy with the Shuttle so far. :sb:

Post Reply

Return to “Video Synthesis”