ADSR from an Envelator

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chamomileshark
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ADSR from an Envelator

Post by chamomileshark » Tue May 06, 2014 12:14 pm

hi, I'm trying to use a pair of Envelators to create ADSRs. I'm having a problem seeing any way to change the sustain levels.

From the manual

When the Mix control is used for the two envelopes in the Envelator, this
control will allow you to create an ADSR:

• Use Envelope 1 in AD mode, Envelope 2 in AR
mode.

• The positive outputs of the two envelopes are normalized to the MIX1 and MIX2 inputs (as indicated by the 1 and 2 below the in arrows).

• Set the MIX control to the 12 noon position (evenly mixing the two envelopes).

• Both attack stages will affect the attack stage, then the decay stage of Envelope 1 will drop the voltage to the sustaining level (as
controlled by the MIX control). When the gate is released, the release stage of Envelope 2 will provide a release stage for the
overall envelope shape.

• The MIXMOD knob behaves like a normal “sustain” level control, providing voltage control of the sustain level


So I have a gate going to both envelopes, 1 at AD and one at AR. I use the mix to go between the AD and AR modes. Mix out goes to the Z of a mixolator set on "Lin" and I can get a nice


/\___
/ \


to appear. But whatever I do with the mix mod that sustain level doesn't shift.

any ideas about what I'm doing wrong?

Edit - just seen that formatting has garbaged my little pic - it is a proper ADSR shape.

Just tried it on the FC of a filter - don't get any effect of changing the MiX Mod setting with that either. I'm holding down a note and after the AD bit has gone and it's into the sustain phase I'm twiddling mix mod while continuing to hold the not down.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

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slow_riot
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Post by slow_riot » Tue May 06, 2014 1:36 pm

I scratched my brain and I'm sure you could figure out the right complex patch if you include the SQR level shifted (and perhaps inverted then mixed with 10V from your joystick if necessary).

I've never been driven to create that specifically... I feel it rude not to fill the Envelators with patch cables in a dense patch, and mill around blindly and madly until the right combination smacks me between the eyes. ADSR be damned! :)

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carygrace
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Re: ADSR from an Envelator

Post by carygrace » Wed May 07, 2014 2:20 pm

chamomileshark wrote:The MIXMOD knob behaves like a normal sustain level control, providing voltage control of the sustain level
Hi, I think you have discovered a typo in the manual!

I should think the MIX knob is what you want, not MIXMOD. The MIXMOD knob is just an attenuator for the MIXMOD input jack.

(Addressing those old manuals is on my to-do list...they do contain errors.)

Edit to add: of course if you put a CV into the MIXMOD input jack, The MIXMOD knob will then control the level of the CV, and therefore modulate your sustain level, but you would have to have a voltage patched into the MIXMOD input for that knob to have an effect.

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chamomileshark
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Post by chamomileshark » Fri May 09, 2014 1:07 pm

thanks Cary, I've just looked at this again on the scope and you are absolutely right. thanks!
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

Pastoral Music: Mark Ellery Griffiths
Music: https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Website: https://markellerygriffithsmusic.blogspot.com/


Experimental & IDM: Mark Dalton Griffiths
Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Website:https://markdaltongriffithsmusic.blogspot.com/

drumsofd00m
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Dual Envelator tips

Post by drumsofd00m » Sat May 10, 2014 11:56 am

One interesting detail: you have two overlaying Attack parameters as long as the ADSR's Sustain is set anywhere between the extremes. Since AR mode has a slightly higher output voltage than the AD and Cycle modes (probably because it follows a comparator's true 10V output whereas the others basically just hard sync an oscillator-like circuit?), the two Attack pots will have different effects even if they are set to the same time.

And if I recall correctly, here's how to get envelopes that have long attacks *yet* are playable at tempi faster than the Attack slope's length, despite the Envelator's disability to retrigger during the Attack phase:

- Patch the inverted output of one Envelator into one of the crossfader inputs, set its mode to AD, its Attack to minimum and the Decay time to what you want to have as your Attack time.
- Set the other Envelator to AR with minimum Attack and any desired Release time.
- The crossfader balance will now provide an arbitary degree of your softened Attack, at the cost of the crossfader's (=the envelopes) total output level.

- Note that with the mix at 50/50, the output after the Release phase will be around 4.5V, not 0V. Readjust your modulated modules (filters etc) accordingly, and if you want to use this envelope on a VCA, you will need another VCA that is modulated by *only* a copy of the *AR* portion of this patched envelope, or your sound will not shut off after the Release phase.
- (Edit: Then again note that applying the same release slope twice, or actually something 1.5 times to be really meticulous, will acoustically result in a bent, i.e. sharper and seemingly shorter Release. Adjust accordingly or counter-bend the slope by applying a portion of the inverted copy of the AR envelope at its DMOD input.)

I haven't been at my Wiard for some time and don't recall if the inverted output (OUT-) is -10 to 0 or 0 to 10 Volts. This will have further implications on the output of the crossfader with any settings *aside* from 50/50. A Mixolator to scale some part of the patch might be handy. I will check this in a few days and clarify it here.

Sounds complicated, but once you get it it's easy, and for me it definitely filled in a gap in the more obvious Wiard patches - namely playing long, slowly swelling pads or other sounds with crescendi.
Last edited by drumsofd00m on Sat May 10, 2014 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chamomileshark
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Post by chamomileshark » Sat May 10, 2014 11:58 am

thanks, I'll give that a try
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

Pastoral Music: Mark Ellery Griffiths
Music: https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Website: https://markellerygriffithsmusic.blogspot.com/


Experimental & IDM: Mark Dalton Griffiths
Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Website:https://markdaltongriffithsmusic.blogspot.com/

drumsofd00m
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Post by drumsofd00m » Sat May 10, 2014 12:15 pm

Double post.
Last edited by drumsofd00m on Sat May 10, 2014 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drumsofd00m
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Post by drumsofd00m » Sat May 10, 2014 12:15 pm

P.S. - Of course there's a shortcut if you want to use your soft attack only on modules that have several modulation inputs, like the Omni Filter or a VCO: simply patch the inverted AD to an attenuated CV input (in addition to your AR at another CV input). The patch above is for use on modules that have only one (or only one attenuated) CV input.

Thanks to Grant for pointing this out a while ago (because it pertains to your ADSR patch as well - just patch AD and AR into two CV inputs of the same module). It's almost too simple to be noticed ;)

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