dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

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onthebandwagon
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dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by onthebandwagon » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:11 pm

This John Maus just popped up on my Spotify, wtf is this? Sounds like a stale copy of something from the 80s to the point of being like a civil war reenactor or someone who thinks they’re Pokémon.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by tim gueguen » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:09 am

There's lots of music these days going for a retro '80s vibe, often classified as synthwave.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by onthebandwagon » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:57 am

tim gueguen wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:09 am
There's lots of music these days going for a retro '80s vibe, often classified as synthwave.
Yes or coldwave or whatever, I saw Cold Cave last year and they were awful.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by orangehexagon » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:38 am

Tame Impala always felt "too on the nose" for me. Same with a lot of other contemporary "indie" music like Alt-J and all those other generic artists.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by umma gumma » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:43 pm

RIP Pachelbel
Last edited by umma gumma on Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by onthebandwagon » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:49 pm

Well the music isn’t a fetish but the artist seems to fetishize a certain sound or era and flagellate it into a pulp of sticky sweet cliche.
“no matter how fine you grind the dead meat, you’ll not bring it to life again“

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umma gumma
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by umma gumma » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:51 pm

ah, got it

apparently I don't know what the word "contemporary" means, sorry

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:18 am

My beef with the John Maus stuff I’ve heard is that the vocals are buried under so many FX that they almost sound like a washy VA synth or something - at that point, why even write lyrics?

Basically the same thing my elders used to say to me about a lot of the punk & hardcore stuff I grew up listening to (and still listen to). I’m a few pairs of chinos and a triple bypass away from turning into my dad.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by señor-bling » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:04 am

Everything new is at risk of sounding like a cliché once one has heard enough stuff. It gets harder to look for the unknowns in the ever growing pool of knowns in things. There's comfort in recognizing knowns in the unknown. It's the listener's choice or maybe even duty to seek out the new against all odds. Amen. :D
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by onthebandwagon » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:27 am

SyndieBot2000XL wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:18 am
My beef with the John Maus stuff I’ve heard is that the vocals are buried under so many FX that they almost sound like a washy VA synth or something - at that point, why even write lyrics?

Basically the same thing my elders used to say to me about a lot of the punk & hardcore stuff I grew up listening to (and still listen to). I’m a few pairs of chinos and a triple bypass away from turning into my dad.
Even the cover of the John Maus album is annoying, I can see the album in my head it’s a copy of but just can’t place it...

Well punk and hardcore was something new at the time and most wasn’t trying to be something it wasn’t plusI’m sure you knew most the lyrics of your favorite albums and were able to sing along despite the speed and velocity.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Fog Door » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:33 am

I'm not a fan of John Maus or anything but just to point out, he was a good 7, 8 years ahead of the curve as far as retrowave is concerned. His music is also clearly more experimental and less commercial than much of that genre. I suppose you either like the whole drenched in effects thing or you don't but Hey Moon is a pretty amazing alternative pop song, in fact, it kind of gives me goosebumps. Admittedly, its completely ersatz and to many people's ears the production no doubt sounds terrible! :)

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by funeralcake » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 am

Reserving any purely music-related criticisms of all things "synth/retrowave", I still can't fathom why anyone thinks the music warrants its own special, shiny new genre label. Doing a pastiche of something without actually developing it significantly is just that: a pastiche. One of, broadly-speaking, contemporary synth-pop in this case. People get way too carried away with naming genres after what are ultimately just stylistic fads.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Fog Door » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:01 am

They are indeed stylistic fads but I don't think impermanence is any reason not to give something a label, is it? Genre labelling is not a badge of merit but purely serves a function eg in future, you can avoid anything labelled retrowave as you regard it to be a pastiche which you do not enjoy.

Synthwave is a fairly broad church, within that (if you are into it) retrowave and darkwave are really quite distinct, different things. If you are not into it, calling it contemporary synth pop will probably suffice, although imo that implies a level of commercialism that is not always present. So I take your point, with an artistic view, it doesn't need a genre label, but from a consumer point of view, it can be helpful. Also, not to forget, that to those in their formative musical years, the genre label may be every bit as important as the actual "music" for, you know, young people reasons ;)

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by cretaceousear » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:19 am

I agree on Tame Impala being a pastiche, his whole thing of having a bunch of employed band members, and then he's called Kevin ( :mrgreen:).
Compare and contrast to MGMT or Empire of the Sun who are in similar territory but get their personalities across.
But all old stuff now.
FKA Twigs is pretty rad but very much art music.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by funeralcake » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:05 am

There's nothing wrong with pastiche. As I said, I am not making any musical criticisms here. I am only criticizing meaningless buzzwords.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Voltcontrol » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:16 am

Young people fond old stuff and appropiate it, old heroes and has beens find a new spark (or additional income) and create more. It's all good and it's all disgusting. Whatever you feel about it.
In general I happen to love superfluous recycling of has-been music styles, particularly of darker 80's stuff. A more raw variety that I particularly enjoy can be found in The KVB.


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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Fog Door » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:04 pm

I am only criticizing meaningless buzzwords
I know and you are entitled to that opinion, but for some people they are helpful labels rather than meaningless buzzwords, that was my point.

Sometimes the labelling of micro genres is actually part of the art(ifice), like the whole vaporwave thing, which I find fascinating -


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporwave

(Link for the uninitiated)

:)

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Voltcontrol » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:19 pm

Fog Door wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:04 pm
I am only criticizing meaningless buzzwords
I know and you are entitled to that opinion, but for some people they are helpful labels rather than meaningless buzzwords, that was my point.

Sometimes the labelling of micro genres is actually part of the art(ifice), like the whole vaporwave thing, which I find fascinating -


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporwave

(Link for the uninitiated)

:)
Had a LOT of discussions which records to put in which record bin with the shop owner of our local underground music shop. Very entertaining and often funny to go into the idiosyncrasies of (sub{sub})subcultures.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by tim gueguen » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:23 am

The way to get around that is to shelve everything strictly alphabetically, and ignore genre. Unfortunately a lot of people would get upset at Arvo Part and Dolly Parton being in the same bin.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Jim the Oldbie » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:41 am

That's how I arrange my home collection. It would be interesting to see how this would play out in a shop.

At least back when shops were still a thing.

(Sigh) Never mind.
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Voltcontrol » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:45 am

tim gueguen wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:23 am
The way to get around that is to shelve everything strictly alphabetically, and ignore genre. Unfortunately a lot of people would get upset at Arvo Part and Dolly Parton being in the same bin.
Would not want to speculate what'll happen to Arvo's Pärt, being so close to Dolly.

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Jim the Oldbie » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:49 am

Ba-dum tisss!

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by 3hands » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:16 am

I’m on the fence with this sort of thing. I love stuff like Com Truise if only for the fact that he’s taken the 80s sound but given it very up to date production which I feel (and this is simply my opinion), pushes it somewhat back into relevancy for me. Neon Indian is another one that comes to mind. Production on Psychic Chasms wasn’t awesome, but he managed to get his point across. I would say he pushed a lot of that 80s vibe simply by the gear he was using. In my own music, I like to pull from the 80s but not make it sound like I recorded it in 1986. (How much fun would that be though!!)
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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by IEC » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:59 pm

its not all about the most popular and cliched examples either, often they will inspire other people to use those elements in a more interesting and contemporary way. Cabaret Nocturne for example has some "synthwaveish" elements/influences for sure but it sounds really fresh and interesting

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Re: dated contemporary music that sounds like a cliche or fetish

Post by Fog Door » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:58 am

Com Truise is great and definitely has created a thing of his own despite being on nodding terms with the whole retrowave thing. It would be too harsh to lump him in with the stuff that is pure 80's aping hack genre music. Pyschic Chasms by Neon Indian was right at the start of this 80's thing, they were calling it Hypnagogic Pop/Dreamwave back then :lol: Again all that stuff has more of its own voice than something like Timecop1983 (which I also love even though it is hack genre music) :)

I'd never heard Cabaret Nocturne before, that is some good stuff, thanks IEC :tu:

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