Announcement: IDOW Hardcore Edition DVD/BluRay repress

Discussions and information relating to the upcoming Modular Synthesizer Documentary.

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Post by L.C.O. » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:42 pm

Wow.
Quite the storm we got going here...

I will just say this:

I missed the opportunity to order the edition the first time around, and am very happy to hear that it will be re-released! Exclusive or not: I am looking forward to purchasing the piece.

Thank you!
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:42 pm

I apologize sincerely for starting the responses to this thread OP off on a negative track.

I was just being snarky. I think it's a great thing that the DVD is going to be made widely available. I frankly never understood the whole "limited edition" thing in the first place (but I suspect that it was a strategy to ensure getting the minimum number of pre-orders to ensure profitability on the first pressing).

And no, mine isn't hand-numbered either.
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Post by mckenic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:51 pm

:(

I think the chaps considering doing the synth DIY movie project better come over here and have a long hard look...

:(

On a positive note - the guys that missed out the 1st time round... Your gonna LOVE the movie!!! :tu:

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Post by KnobHell » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:54 pm

Sorry? for those of use with an education, we understand that they did deliver...

Like others you can bitch and moan all you want. But by refusing to accept a refund you no longer have any credibility. At least if you were wise enough you would know how silly you sound by continuing to cackle.

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KnobHell wrote:. Give Robert and Jason the respect they deserve, they delivered.
No, they did not.
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Post by polyroy » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:54 pm

n_m wrote:we can voice our opinion respectfully
Why don't you do that then? It seems like you're trying to paint these guys as some greedy corporation who just jumped on a bandwagon to make some profit and fuck over everyone. Hardly respectful, considering the amount of effort that was made to get this documentary going and to get the DVDs sent out.

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Post by waveglider » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:55 pm

I think the problem is you can't put the same material value on a DVD/CD or other digitally formatted media as you can actual hardware or a piece of vinyl. Limited Edition or not, what we have in this day and age is just containers for data. Making pretty packaging and/or include other physical goodies does add to the value, but real collectors items with high value are objects that cannot be easily duplicated in the exact form or state they are in.
I think this film is more about spreading the information about this world than anything else, and Jason made a huge effort in providing the vehicle to show the world which is an amazing accomplishment that I doubt 99% of us would bother to commit understanding the risks and time it takes to do something for the love of it.
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Post by n_m » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:58 pm

Amberclock wrote:n_m: The problem here is obviously not the mentality, but rather the (your) attitude for it.
My attitude is fine, Thank You!

Funding was obtained by preying on a certain mindset (collector mentality). This is quite frequent on the niche-underground-boutique-alternative-avantgarde-whatever scene as a way to keep the finances afloat.

Without such a mentality there would be NO IDOW HE to begin with, AT ALL.

So my attitude bothers you because I made a point of saying (quite vocally, yes) "the emperor has no clothes"? :lol:

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Post by waveglider » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:02 pm

It's a DVD, not a hand-carved piece of unobtanium.
There is a reality counterpart to idealism that I don't think you are quite understanding.

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Post by n_m » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:06 pm

polyroy wrote:
n_m wrote:we can voice our opinion respectfully
Why don't you do that then? It seems like you're trying to paint these guys as some greedy corporation who just jumped on a bandwagon to make some profit and fuck over everyone. Hardly respectful, considering the amount of effort that was made to get this documentary going and to get the DVDs sent out.
@ polyroy Man, don't distort my words. Their effort has paid off, by their own admission. It's not like they're doing philanthropy here.

Read my longer post to Jason and Robert, if you care. You will not find what you accuse me of.

Fanboyism, it's a sickness, but it keeps this scene running, it seems.

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Post by n_m » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:18 pm

To all it concerns: why all the defensiveness towards the generally negative tone of my posting? It's not meant to hurt you. Nothing personal, whatsoever. Yet you appear personally offended, to the point of distorting my words. When was my posting about this not respectful? I find the use of lively language still within the borders of repectful discourse. I discussed business practices. No personal attacks on Jason or Robert, whatsoever.

If it bothers you :fu: there's an ignore button here, should your anxiety become overwhelming.

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Post by Amberclock » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:27 pm

n_m wrote:
Amberclock wrote:n_m: The problem here is obviously not the mentality, but rather the (your) attitude for it.
My attitude is fine, Thank You!

Funding was obtained by preying on a certain mindset (collector mentality). This is quite frequent on the niche-underground-boutique-alternative-avantgarde-whatever scene as a way to keep the finances afloat.

Without such a mentality there would be NO IDOW HE to begin with, AT ALL.

So my attitude bothers you because I made a point of saying (quite vocally, yes) "the emperor has no clothes"? :lol:
No, your attitude bothers me because you make your points passive-aggressively and when someone calls you out on it, you play the old "What? I just said the truth!".

Now, I don't know you, I don't have anything against you but I honestly don't find the way you express your opinions respectful to the size of the project. And I am not the only one with that opinion. That isn't to say I can't see your point of view (yes, IMO they could have dealt with the whole repressing thing differently and less in a hurry) or that I am biased - when solvent seemed to respond in a rather irritated and non deserving way I, again, expressed my concern.

What they achieved with this documentary is definitely not making them victims and gives you the rights that any consumer has but flipping the side and presenting them as frauds and sold-outs is waaaay off from not being happy with a product because of a marketing issue. If you don't realize or don't want to admit that your tone does so, fine by me - just don't wonder why you get such negative answers and definitely don't put everyone in the "you are too blind to see" bag.
Last edited by Amberclock on Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:33 pm

I wanna share a little anecdote here:

When Robert and Jason were originally doing the Intellijel interviews in Vancouver, I was in France or Australia or some damn place for work, and couldn't participate. I was pretty choked, but they said that if I was ever in Toronto, they could interview me. Well, a few months later, I had to go to Peterborough, Ontario on business for a few days, and decided to spend a night in Toronto for an interview.

So, I was late arriving, and we didn't get together until after 10 pm. They came rolling up to my crappo hotel in a van, picked me up, and we went to a TV studio. After about half an hour of setup and shooting the breeze, they were ready to interview me, and I got in the chair. Then, Jason asked me questions and just got me talking for about an hour and a half. Even though it was after 1 am when we finished, and those two must have been knackered, they never showed anything but enthusiasm for the whole process. I had a great time talking about design and fiddling with the homebuilt ASR I brought along.

I know that these guys are not in it for the money. This whole thing was a labour of love, full stop. So quit your fucking whining! We are all very lucky that these guys had the passion and drive to make such an awesome document about our obsession. Now I really hope that the theatrical version happens, because this definitely deserves to be seen by a wider audience than a bunch of whingeing wigglers.
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Post by L.C.O. » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:09 pm

Well said, Dr.
And thank you for sharing the story.

Yeah, this thad is weird and kind of sad.

I am just excited that this work is getting such great recognition! Congratulations are in order!
This is a great and encouraging event, and unfortunately, these things often attract some bruised egos. But that is just a tiny side story. The work itself will survive and thrive.
It would be naive of anyone to expect a film to remain in some sort of "locekd edition" form. Especially in today's world of instant mass duplication and object-less distribution.

p.

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Post by polyroy » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:23 pm

n_m wrote:
polyroy wrote:
n_m wrote:we can voice our opinion respectfully
Why don't you do that then? It seems like you're trying to paint these guys as some greedy corporation who just jumped on a bandwagon to make some profit and fuck over everyone. Hardly respectful, considering the amount of effort that was made to get this documentary going and to get the DVDs sent out.
@ polyroy Man, don't distort my words. Their effort has paid off, by their own admission. It's not like they're doing philanthropy here.

Read my longer post to Jason and Robert, if you care. You will not find what you accuse me of.

Fanboyism, it's a sickness, but it keeps this scene running, it seems.
Your longer post was what I was referring to. Quotes like the following;
Ride the wave of enthusiasm for Modular Synths, while you can. The hype will eventually fade, maybe sooner than many expect.
If you had unforeseen financial troubles with the IDOW project, it would be OK. But it is simply a matter of breaking a promise to make more money, not OK.
In my eyes, they seemed like you're basically saying they're just doing this to make money. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's how they come across.

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Post by mechie » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:26 pm

n_m wrote:Funding was obtained by preying on a certain mindset (collector mentality). This is quite frequent on the niche-underground-boutique-alternative-avantgarde-whatever scene as a way to keep the finances afloat.

Without such a mentality there would be NO IDOW HE to begin with, AT ALL

That last comment cracks me up -
There WAS no hardcore edition until January this year!
None of us in the original Indegogo campaign got what we ordered - we got so much more - at no extra cost!

If this boutique mentality is so precious to you then maybe, out of respect to those who were on the original campaign, you should have refused to participate, maybe even complained on that point back then.

Clearly, this is corporate profiteering - I just couldn't see it as clearly as you do.
:hmm:

Are you also ranting that the IDOW Batteryacid module is available from Hex as a project? is that not a limited edition product?

I bought the DVD, BluRay, module, boxed set - shit, I think I got everything but producer's rights on Indegogo - I'm happy it will be re-issued and Hex is making a crust from his design efforts.

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Post by n_m » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:31 pm

Amberclock wrote:No, your attitude bothers me because you make your points passive-aggressively and when someone calls you out on it, you play the old "What? I just said the truth!".

Now, I don't know you, I don't have anything against you but I honestly don't find the way you express your opinions respectful to the size of the project.
I can live with that, though I would much much prefer to be friends :hug: for reals!

It might just be that you overrate the "size of the project" aspect.
What they achieved with this documentary is definitely not making them victims and gives you the rights that any consumer has but flipping the side and presenting them as frauds and sold-outs is waaaay off from not being happy with a product because of a marketing issue.

If you don't realize or don't want to admit that your tone does so, fine by me - just don't wonder why you get such negative answers and definitely don't put everyone in the "you are too blind to see" bag.
While I understand that my tone bothers you, why are you not equally bothered by the drooling fanboyism that creeps this whole thread?

If you found my tone "passive aggressive" what do you make of Jason's? Given the number of requests for a re-press they were obviously counting on the positive voices drowning out the negative ones, and not ever having to bother with dealing with disappointed funders.

Breaking a promise to funders is not a mere "marketing issue" as you call it. It opens a very bad precedent for future initiatives, theirs or others' like the upcoming "synth-diy" film project. Crowdfunding is built on trust, even more so than in "business as usual". Refunds were not even offered with the initial announcement of a re-press, which is, in my opinion, another indicator of bad faith and of taking us for granted. If you can't see that then you might really be temporarily "too blind to see".

L.C.O.
This is a great and encouraging event, and unfortunately, these things often attract some bruised egos.
You serious?
It would be naive of anyone to expect a film to remain in some sort of "locekd edition" form. Especially in today's world of instant mass duplication and object-less distribution.
Naiveté is besides the point. It was their challenge and responsibility to deal with that issue without breaking the terms for the funding that fueled their very fine project. I find your charge of naiveté to be shallow when compared the issue of "trust" in funding.

Their project is thriving, you can ignore the "nay-sayers". Rejoice. :champagne:

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Post by kimu » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:14 pm

just read on matrixsynth that IDOW:HE is going to be available again and just gone through the whole thread

different feelings going as one that funds the IDOW:HE campaign and wait months for it

first of all, good that the documentary is in some way having better sales than expected. i am happy for the creator and it's sign that modular community is alive and maybe bigger than we think.

but... i am feeling disappointed by seeing IDOW:HE available in the same form of the original pre-order.
i have been part of a project, put my money forefront to buy something i believe in and much before the product exists. and i have done this to support the project and to get something special like all the first edition, being it a cd, vinyl, comics or books.
i am still happy of having done this even though it's not hand-numbered and limited.

but i believe it would be more fair to put a "second edition" or "re-press" sticker on the cover. this would be more respectful to all of us giving you money in advance and funding the project.

EDIT: oh, and i am sorry, but have to say that deleting respectfully post is not acceptable, especially in such a community as Muff's one.
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Post by L.C.O. » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:15 pm

n_m wrote:[...]

Their project is thriving, you can ignore the "nay-sayers". Rejoice. :champagne:

Amen.



Time to move on?



:-)

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Post by KnobHell » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Muff, please lock this thread. There is nothing new here. Jason has made an offer to do refunds. What more productive can come out of this childlike bitching? If no one accepts his offer they have essentially accepted the terms of the new contract and are saying they are happy with what they received. Otherwise they have the option to roll everything back to zero.

I've personally offered to have people pm me and I will buy their DVD's, which no one has done.

To me it is an indication that they just want to defame Jason, which I don't believe Muff's is about. My guess is that 99% of "investors" are happy with what they received. The others just want to make themselves look relevant.

It's time to shut this down.

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Post by the83 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:30 pm

wavecircle wrote:Everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in the thread. The collector mentality and the hope that what you own will increase in value. This is a documentary of great value and more people should see it. I bought the HE because it had more footage and I have lent it to many of my friends because they don't really "get" the obsession I have. Putting a number on it means nothing to me.
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Post by amnesia » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:37 pm

I would just like a copy to watch. I am still waiting for my lost copy to arrive.

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Post by dan_k » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:07 pm

the83 wrote:
wavecircle wrote:Everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in the thread. The collector mentality and the hope that what you own will increase in value. This is a documentary of great value and more people should see it. I bought the HE because it had more footage and I have lent it to many of my friends because they don't really "get" the obsession I have. Putting a number on it means nothing to me.
this.
+1

The important thing was getting this thing made, that's what I invested in and I'm proud to have played a small part.

For the amount of time and energy from Jason and Robert where they could have been doing other things and gaining other income *they* are the true investors in the film. Let them do what they want.

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Post by sonicwarrior » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:26 pm

Jeez, this thread has exploded:
KnobHell wrote:What more productive can come out of this childlike bitching?
Posts like this are not helping and IMHO are even less mature than the voices of criticism.

Is this China where no one is allowed to criticize the government?

Everyone dismissing the voices of the critics just puts oil into the fire instead of helping. If you feel an urge to shout out that you don't care about limited editions it would be enough to just write 'I don't care about limited editions, thanks for this superb documentation.'. That would be the action of a really mature human being. Everyone else is just participating in the ongoing fight that this has become.
wavecircle wrote:Everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in the thread. The collector mentality and the hope that what you own will increase in value. This is a documentary of great value and more people should see it. I bought the HE because it had more footage and I have lent it to many of my friends because they don't really "get" the obsession I have. Putting a number on it means nothing to me.
You lent it to friends? Then you are a bad, bad guy. Shame on you and everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in this quote. :haha:

I advise you to watch the movie 'Serenity' to get an idea of what results trying to create better people can have. The collector mentality is a very human thing and nothing devilish. There wouldn't be a TT303 or x0xb0x if it wasn't for collectors. Or a newly available Korg MS-20 or Oberheim SEM. Or a NordLead 2, Poly 800 or Blofeld with black keys.

It doesn't sound like solvent learned something from this issue according to his statement that a one minute change is too much. It would have taken less time than posting that many posts in this thread defending his position and showing no appreciation for collectors.
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Post by chrisso » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:35 pm

These are the guidlines provided by Indiegogo:
As you organize your campaign, be thorough, communicative, and transparent. Provide accurate details for your campaign and user profile.
I don't give two hoots about limited editions in the end, but I'm not sure about the crowdfunding concept, this is the first one I took part in. I just think if you aren't going to break the concept, you can't just move the goal posts when it suits you to do so.
If you don't need limited editions to raise the money, don't heavily promote limited editions. If you aren't prepared to honor the crowdfunding pledges you've made, don't use crowdfunding.

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Post by KnobHell » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:57 pm

No, posts like yours are corrosive and keep this shit going.

A long time ago Jason posted a remedy, you can take it or leave it. But either way the problem was stated, a solution provided. Anything beyond that is just stirring shit for the sake of stiring shit.

We all get that a few people are unhappy. So what's your point now, that it rained on your party? Being redundant doesn't make you king.

Since the complainers drove Jason away a few of us are not allowing the minority of babies to ruin his reputation. As far as I'm concerned I way underpaid for what they delivered. I imagine that both of the worked for free and covered only their expenses. How many others should have done that. I think it's pathetic that a few small voices can create such a stink. And trying to act noble you cite censorship and china.

What is your point that hasn't been expressed ad nausium?

sonicwarrior wrote:Jeez, this thread has exploded:
KnobHell wrote:What more productive can come out of this childlike bitching?
Posts like this are not helping and IMHO are even less mature than the voices of criticism.

Is this China where no one is allowed to criticize the government?

Everyone dismissing the voices of the critics just puts oil into the fire instead of helping. If you feel an urge to shout out that you don't care about limited editions it would be enough to just write 'I don't care about limited editions, thanks for this superb documentation.'. That would be the action of a really mature human being. Everyone else is just participating in the ongoing fight that this has become.
wavecircle wrote:Everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in the thread. The collector mentality and the hope that what you own will increase in value. This is a documentary of great value and more people should see it. I bought the HE because it had more footage and I have lent it to many of my friends because they don't really "get" the obsession I have. Putting a number on it means nothing to me.
You lent it to friends? Then you are a bad, bad guy. Shame on you and everything wrong with the synth scene can be read in this quote. :haha:

I advise you to watch the movie 'Serenity' to get an idea of what results trying to create better people can have. The collector mentality is a very human thing and nothing devilish. There wouldn't be a TT303 or x0xb0x if it wasn't for collectors. Or a newly available Korg MS-20 or Oberheim SEM. Or a NordLead 2, Poly 800 or Blofeld with black keys.

It doesn't sound like solvent learned something from this issue according to his statement that a one minute change is too much. It would have taken less time than posting that many posts in this thread defending his position and showing no appreciation for collectors.
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