mixer Mixers MIXERS!

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Vacancy Of Disco
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mixer Mixers MIXERS!

Post by Vacancy Of Disco » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:47 am

So I'm changing things up a bit, I have a motu 828 mk2 which I like but I miss having an actual mixer with knobs. I had an A&H zed 14 in the past that I enjoyed but it's rather big for my portable setup I have in mind ( I'm looking to stuff my Mac mini, push, a mixer, and midi interface into the bottom of a suit case and a small flat screen monitor into the top of the case to make basically a ridiculously large laptop)

so here's where I need help with decision making.

first: FireWire vs usb? I've noticed that the FireWire mixers out there only send a stereo mix down of however many tracks you have. I was almost sold on Mackie onyx 820I until Illearned this. so if I'm not getting all 8or so individual channels why not just go with a usb mixer?

second: on the usb side I was looking at a&h zed10( fx?) and the Mackie profx8 on the FireWire side I'm looking at the Mackie onyx 820I and behringer ufx12. now the behringer as I understand, can send all inputs to individual channels on an external hard drive and then you can plug that hard drive into your computer and mix everything there in your daw. but can this be done straight from mixer to computer? that would be great BUT it's a bit bigger than I was thinking of getting.

any other mixers I should consider? opinions on the ones above. obviously since I'm getting push I'm going to be using this with ableton. for monitoring I'm using krk rocket 5s if that matters. and only recording the gear listed in my signature plus guitar/bass.
thanks for any input you have

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mha
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Post by mha » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:14 pm

As far as I know, all the Zed USB mixers only send the stereo mix via USB - not the individual channels.

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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:40 pm

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect about the Onyx 820i. You can send all 8 inputs as discrete channels to your DAW. You can also use these channels as send/returns. So you could send your guitar input through effects in Ableton or whatever, then back to the mixer.

I had the 1220i a while back and replaced it with the 828mk3 because I needed the ADAT for Silent Way. Otherwise I'd still have it. Worked great.

That said, Firewire is being deprecated. My new Macbook doesn't even have it. I'm using my 828mk3 with USB right now, which works well. Of course for $25 I have a Firewire-to-Thunderbolt connector that works fine when I need it.
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Post by MrBiggs » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:42 pm

From page 12 of the Onyx 820i manual:
The FireWire interface provides the following outputs to your computer:
• Channels 1–8, tapped pre-fader, and either pre-EQ, or post EQ (your choice).
• Aux send 1 and 2 (a copy of the final aux outputs to your stage monitors or processors). FireWire outputs 5 and 6 can either be from channels 5 and 6, or aux send 1 and 2.
• Left/right main mix. The left/right main mix
at the FireWire output is not affected by the main mix level control (important for recording live). FireWire outputs 7 and 8 can either be from channels 7 and 8, or main mix L and R.
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Post by LJX » Wed May 07, 2014 9:50 am

mha wrote:As far as I know, all the Zed USB mixers only send the stereo mix via USB - not the individual channels.
This is true. I have the Zed10fx and usb audio is sent via firewire only. The upside to this is that you can record audio from any of the other channels directly into your DAW.

You could also use a 3.5mm jack with a 1/4" (or stereo) converter if you wanted to use a dedicated channel on the mixer.

The Zed series will give you the most bang for your buck in terms of audio quality-- I got mine for 220 used and it makes my cheap Bose speakers sound amazing. Can't wait to hear it with some slick JBL monitors.
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Post by Cadence » Wed May 07, 2014 10:20 am

I've been on the hunt for a new mixer as well. The A&H Zed series seemed ideal until I learned that the USB audio is not capable of 24/96. Deal breaker for me. So I bought a Duet and will likely purchase an analog mixer to feed channels to my I/O. As a result I've been looking at Soundcraft EPM8 or 12.

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Post by mousegarden » Sun May 11, 2014 4:20 am

I'm in exactly the same situation as the OP here. I am also considering the Onyx, and the Zed series. The Zed is out, simply because of the stereo mix situation, to the computer. My experience with FireWire has been great, in my opinion it is superior to USB in terms of ultimate low latency. I'm probably, going to get the Mackie, I think the mic amps are superior to the Zed, although there may not be a lot in it.
I word of warning, I urge you to check out the Behringer carefully before buying it, I'm not waging an anti Behringer war here, they are good at many things, but my experiences with their mixers has been disappointing, to say the least.

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Post by stk » Sun May 11, 2014 7:18 am

As mentioned, the Mackie firewire mixers (at least the 1640i that I own) send and receive individual channels over firewire.

That caveat, as with most* FW gear, is that you need a good firewire chipset in your computer. Texas Instruments, to be precise.

*exception to the rule is RME. Works with anything. Take note everyone else, you are hereby owned.

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Post by mousegarden » Sun May 11, 2014 7:29 am

stk wrote:As mentioned, the Mackie firewire mixers (at least the 1640i that I own) send and receive individual channels over firewire.

That caveat, as with most* FW gear, is that you need a good firewire chipset in your computer. Texas Instruments, to be precise.

*exception to the rule is RME. Works with anything. Take note everyone else, you are hereby owned.
Wonder how reliable the Mackie is with a Mac, running via a Thunderbolt adaptor ?

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Post by mha » Sun May 11, 2014 9:07 am

mousegarden wrote: Wonder how reliable the Mackie is with a Mac, running via a Thunderbolt adaptor ?
I was a bit sceptical at first, but running the Fireface 800 using the Thunderbolt adapter has given me absolutely no problems for more than a year now.

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Post by mousegarden » Sun May 11, 2014 9:41 am

mha wrote:
mousegarden wrote: Wonder how reliable the Mackie is with a Mac, running via a Thunderbolt adaptor ?
I was a bit sceptical at first, but running the Fireface 800 using the Thunderbolt adapter has given me absolutely no problems for more than a year now.
Thank's for that, now I'll go and leave the OP in peace !

:tu:

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Post by stk » Sun May 11, 2014 3:52 pm

mha wrote:
mousegarden wrote: Wonder how reliable the Mackie is with a Mac, running via a Thunderbolt adaptor ?
I was a bit sceptical at first, but running the Fireface 800 using the Thunderbolt adapter has given me absolutely no problems for more than a year now.
As I mentioned, RME works with anything because they develop their own firewire controllers.

Everyone else, including Mackie, use off the shelf stuff that tends to be quite picky, so YMMV.
(iirc macs used to come with TI firewire chips, but no longer. No experience with thunderbolt myself).

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Post by mousegarden » Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 am

stk wrote:
mha wrote:
mousegarden wrote: Wonder how reliable the Mackie is with a Mac, running via a Thunderbolt adaptor ?
I was a bit sceptical at first, but running the Fireface 800 using the Thunderbolt adapter has given me absolutely no problems for more than a year now.
As I mentioned, RME works with anything because they develop their own firewire controllers.

Everyone else, including Mackie, use off the shelf stuff that tends to be quite picky, so YMMV.
(iirc macs used to come with TI firewire chips, but no longer. No experience with thunderbolt myself).
I'll probably get the RME, and ad a little mixer to sub-mix my synth's, and which I can also use as a monitor controller, so that I don't have to fire up the computer every time I want to play.

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Post by stk » Mon May 12, 2014 7:40 am

You will never regret buying RME. I tend to go on about them, but it is because they are proper.

Not saying that other stuff isn't good (my Mackie 1640i is actually awesome, although I'm selling it due to lack of use & space) but RME do have a reputation for a reason.

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Post by mousegarden » Mon May 12, 2014 7:54 am

stk wrote:You will never regret buying RME. I tend to go on about them, but it is because they are proper.

Not saying that other stuff isn't good (my Mackie 1640i is actually awesome, although I'm selling it due to lack of use & space) but RME do have a reputation for a reason.
Yes, I went with a friend on a recording season at the Wigmore Hall here in London, and we had the use of the BBC control room, in the rack were RME interfaces. I was a bit dubious, as I always thought that the RME software was complicated, but on seeing it in the flesh it actually seemed very easy to use.

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Post by stk » Mon May 12, 2014 6:29 pm

The RME software (Totalmix) is as complicated as you want to make it. It is, in essence, a matrix mixer, where you can route any input to any output.
The newer version I believe has onboard FX.

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Post by tilman » Wed May 14, 2014 1:18 am

I´ll get me one of the new 1604 VLZ4s soon... I want to be able to do some analog compression and Bass Kick Sidechaining before recording....

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Post by 101010oxo » Wed May 14, 2014 1:38 am

FWIW: I have only good things to say about my Mackie Onyx 1220i. Works flawlessly with my Lenove T540 (Win 8.1) and Ableton Live (also Reaper).

Ten channels in (11+12 are the output of Live's sum) and a very nice analog mixer. Sometimes I don't even turn on my computer, but most of the time I just hit record right at the beginning and have all my noodlings on "tape". Nice.

:yay:
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Post by mousegarden » Wed May 14, 2014 3:22 am

101010oxo wrote:FWIW: I have only good things to say about my Mackie Onyx 1220i. Works flawlessly with my Lenove T540 (Win 8.1) and Ableton Live (also Reaper).

Ten channels in (11+12 are the output of Live's sum) and a very nice analog mixer. Sometimes I don't even turn on my computer, but most of the time I just hit record right at the beginning and have all my noodlings on "tape". Nice.

:yay:
That's an interesting combination, I also use Ableton, and Reaper, and was also wondering about compatibility between the Onyx and Reaper ?

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Post by 101010oxo » Wed May 14, 2014 5:23 am

mousegarden wrote: That's an interesting combination, I also use Ableton, and Reaper, and was also wondering about compatibility between the Onyx and Reaper ?
As I said, works great for me. I just made a Reaper project file that has 10 tracks set to the 10 inputs and nothing else (to be precise it has the monos going to individual tracks and the stereos to stereo tracks). I then load up that file, do a "save as" with a new filename and have a nice clean new project. Then I arm all (required) tracks, hit record and jam away (adding FX as needed). If I like something I later come back, cut it out and paste it into Live's clips and take it from there.

What I like about that is that I can just play with the external synths, sequencers and the mixer itself (EQ, FX, ...) and have everything "on tape".

Also, I can just plug in a synth or noisebox and start right away.

:nana: :nana:
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Post by kragg » Thu May 15, 2014 3:35 am

+1 for the Mackie Onyx.
It is not perfect, but very good for the price.

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Post by tilman » Thu May 15, 2014 11:30 am

I went for the 1604 VLZ4 as they have the Onyx preamps in there now and I don´t need the firewire features.

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Post by mousegarden » Sat May 17, 2014 4:01 am

I was thinking about the next step up from an Onyx ? Where would you go ? There seems to be a giant gap, between something like the Mackie, and really high end studio consoles ? In that situation, I think a lot of people go down the seperate mic amp/high end converter market.

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Post by mha » Sat May 17, 2014 4:03 am

mousegarden wrote:I was thinking about the next step up from an Onyx ? Where would you go ? There seems to be a giant gap, between something like the Mackie, and really high end studio consoles ?

MouseGarden.
I'd say that the next step is the Allen & Heath MixWizard series.

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Post by bubbajaxx » Sat May 17, 2014 4:51 am

So I'm in the market for a new mixer myself.
Was thinking about picking up a Mackie 1604 VLZ3 as there being sold cheap here (€685) now that there's the VLZ4. But then maybe I should go for an Onyx as I've always heard good things about them... I don't need the firewire feature though.
Can someone tell me from experience the difference between the Mackie Onyx 1640i and the Mackie 1604 VLZ3 as far as sound and build? I'm thinking the (perkins) eq on the onyx is probably better sounding?

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