Early Hardcore production tips?

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sandyman
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Early Hardcore production tips?

Post by sandyman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:10 pm

Already figured out hoovers and kicks and the 8th to 16th note pattern for melodies along with adding in some formant stuff in to create a little more variety. But there is all this other stuff that I cant name or search for tutorials on how its made. One big issue is that I cant find a way to make a sub base oscillator with out it sounding like a reese mutation which doesnt really fit the genre. I want to find a deathly hum/growl/buzz/ that can fill that emptyness in some of my tracks. Im talking any noise that can shake a warehouses frame and frighten and excite the people inside. Please anyone with advice, give me some. :deadbanana:

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Chopper
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Post by Chopper » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:22 pm

Sine wave.

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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:50 am

A man of hardcore!

2 detuned sine waves? Just get a Behringer Neutron? Or software FM synths like FM8?

Can you share your hoover sound synthesis method? I've often wondered but never really sat down to do it. I would like some hoover action.

sandyman
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Post by sandyman » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:57 pm

Panason wrote:A man of hardcore!

2 detuned sine waves? Just get a Behringer Neutron? Or software FM synths like FM8?

Can you share your hoover sound synthesis method? I've often wondered but never really sat down to do it. I would like some hoover action.
So I first made one in Caustic 3 because I am not a hardware guy. I am trying to do everything as cheap as possible. Recently made one in Serum as well following Owen Palmers guide from youtube. He can teach it way better than I can.
I do think that an FM bass would give me the sound I need but I cant seem to get the right "microwave" feeling that comes from the Prodigy's Everybody in the Place. Just sampling it won't cut it, if there is a way to produce the sound through synthesis I would love to learn how. I gotta be able to twist it lower.

here is an upload but for some reason audio is terrible. I attached the audio file for comparison.
[video][/video]
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Hoover.wav
(4.3 MiB) Downloaded 7 times

sandyman
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Solution I have found. And more questions arise.

Post by sandyman » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:13 am

I have started going into serum with the wavefolding formula and FMing one oscillator with another. Gives a variety of metallic growls which I have just put in on the offcounts of the kick drum. Makes a bouncy effect which was really popular with Jolly Roger Records. Its a different style, and I bet i could make longer basslines of half or whole notes in other parts of the song with the gain turned down to give off a more current feel for the genre. maybe add in some cutoff automation to give the FM bass a sweeping feeling of its own.

I have been looking at Meshuggah's Bleed drum score and was going to see if I could try getting some of the rhythms in that would feel cool because the way they slow down a room while playing a fast kick is something I want to try in Gabber/Early Hardcore. Maybe not even using a distorted kick for it but a more full sounding kick underneath the distorted one.

Please post more stuff here for anyone that has produced or tried to produce this genre. Any new ideas whether it be new melody styles, vocals to sample, arguing if 4 on the floor is needed throughout the whole song or not, polyrhythms to confuse the DJs.
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BLEED_MESHUGGAH_DRUM_TRANSCRIPT_BY_TROY_WRIGHT.pdf
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nov9
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Post by nov9 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:41 am

I would say you're on a hard path if you're trying to "recreate" with modern synth plugins

The basis of early rave and hardcore is sampling i.e. Akai S1000 (posh), Roland W-30, Casio samplers and Commodore Amiga (ghetto). With a few commonly-used digital synths like Korg M1, Roland D50, E-Mu romplers, sprinkled on top.

To get closest to that sound I would recommend

TAL-Sampler (emulates the characteristics of vintage samplers)
VST versions of the above synths
Lots of period Sample CDs and actual released tracks to sample from

Serum etc. will give you lots of nice sounds but you should sample them to make them sound "right" in this context

sandyman
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Post by sandyman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 am

nov9 wrote:I would say you're on a hard path if you're trying to "recreate" with modern synth plugins

The basis of early rave and hardcore is sampling i.e. Akai S1000 (posh), Roland W-30, Casio samplers and Commodore Amiga (ghetto). With a few commonly-used digital synths like Korg M1, Roland D50, E-Mu romplers, sprinkled on top.

To get closest to that sound I would recommend

TAL-Sampler (emulates the characteristics of vintage samplers)
VST versions of the above synths
Lots of period Sample CDs and actual released tracks to sample from

Serum etc. will give you lots of nice sounds but you should sample them to make them sound "right" in this context
This argument is definitely a valid one. One that I have had with a friend before. But, I am not looking for the exactly "right" sounds, but the exactly "nice" sounds. The FM bass from The Prodigy's Everybody in the Place is definitely sampled in Overlord's The Spice, but I'm not looking for an exact replica. I am only using sampling for vocals and some percussion. I have managed to create beefier kicks without using 909 samples, synth sounds that are close to the era but moldable to my needs. Most guys on Darkshark IGL don't have access to old school hardware, and a few try their best to not sample. This is all a hobby and is not a money gainer for me. I have all the time in the world to figure it out.

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Post by Yes Powder » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:48 am

Panason wrote:A man of hardcore!

2 detuned sine waves? Just get a Behringer Neutron? Or software FM synths like FM8?

Can you share your hoover sound synthesis method? I've often wondered but never really sat down to do it. I would like some hoover action.
Three saw-waves, softsynced to avoid beating and tuned an octave apart each, and mixed. Add some slew limiting to the V/Oct Ins and you're pretty much there; anything else is just spicing to taste.

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Post by Slothrop » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:14 pm

sandyman wrote: This argument is definitely a valid one. One that I have had with a friend before. But, I am not looking for the exactly "right" sounds, but the exactly "nice" sounds.
IMO working with samples in some ways is really worth trying, not so much for the magic pixie dust that it may or may not sprinkle over the sounds, but for the way that it makes you work. Once you've got a bar or two bounced into a sampler, you can loop it or you can chop it or you can switch it up for something else, but you can't tweak it and fiddle with it and add musicianly little fills and variations in the way that you could with a synth track.

I'd say that the fact that the original breakbeat hardcore producers were working that way, even if it was more-or-less out of necessity for them, is probably partly responsible for the manic bish-bash-bosh energy that a lot of their tracks have.

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