Mixing with headphones...

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amnesia
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Post by amnesia » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:30 am

[quote="tIB"]Since we are on the subject I have to say the alessandro MS1's are far and away the best price to performance of anything Ive ever used- 99 US dollars and they sound brilliant. Very detailed and transparent... highly recommended.

But highly uncomfortable. They are like 70's airplave headphones.

They have a great sound but hurt to wear.

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tIB
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Post by tIB » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:07 am

amnesia wrote:
tIB wrote:Since we are on the subject I have to say the alessandro MS1's are far and away the best price to performance of anything Ive ever used- 99 US dollars and they sound brilliant. Very detailed and transparent... highly recommended.

But highly uncomfortable. They are like 70's airplave headphones.

They have a great sound but hurt to wear.
hah, yeah comfort isnt their strong point, though i get on fine... must be my gigantic ears providing a cushion... I swapped the pads on mine to bowls, in theory they should be worse than comfy pads but in practice I much prefer them. Word of a better bass response that way too though its so marginal I couldnt say whether or not that is true.

Should also mention that mine went back to factory for repair, though that was due to a shoddy repair in the first place in bangkok. Great service from allessandro though and the problem not at all his fault imho.

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Post by philter » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:12 pm

For me headphones are like a stethoscope. Great for a detailed examination but not good for whole mixes.
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Post by amnesia » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:24 pm

I would think the majority of the worlds population listens to music with headphones on. Be interesting to find out what the percentages would be.

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Post by monads » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:53 pm

How do the Sennhiser HD650's compare with the AKG K 701's?

There's so many options...

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Post by philter » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:16 pm

amnesia wrote:I would think the majority of the worlds population listens to music with headphones on.
And maybe even more true for 'wiggler' music.

Yet I find that my attempts at headphone mixes often don't translate to speakers, while a solid speaker mix always works on the phones. Maybe we need start releasing 'the headphone mix' of everything.
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Post by aksen » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:42 am

i have a cd sitting here on my desk at work - giuseppe ielasi's "tools" on 12k records - that states on the back "please do not use headphones for playback". i have yet to listen to it because of this...

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Post by Hainbach » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:59 am

monads wrote:How do the Sennhiser HD650's compare with the AKG K 701's?

There's so many options...
Both the HDs and the Ks are great headphones and its a matter of taste whether you prefer the dry and detailed AKG sound or Sennheiser's slightly more hifi tone.

But there also is 150EUR price difference, because the 701 are marked as consumer cans, even though they are technically the same as the 300EUR pro-702. Its a more competetive market.

With the price difference, the 701 is a no-brainer, imho.

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Post by monads » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:47 am

Thanks for the insight Hainbach. All I want is a nice pair of mixing phones (priced in the middle range). I don't want to spend Sennheiser HD800 dollars.

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Post by oinkbanana » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:56 pm

i love my HD650
someone earlier in the thread used the word "stethoscope", which is pretty accurate. but I wouldn't rely on them for major stereo placement or reverb.

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Post by ear ear » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:26 am

There was an interesting article in Sound on Sound a few years ago on things to be aware of when mixing using headphones instead of monitors. The only thing I can remember from it is something about headphones altering your perception of tempo... worth looking up.

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Post by oinkbanana » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:50 am

was it this article
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/a ... phones.htm
Another advantage to the clarity of headphone playback is that you can use it to add nuances and fairy dust to your mixes. These subtle little details improve the loudspeaker experience as well, but they are far easier to judge with headphones because you can hear the result of every tiny parameter change. Some examples include almost subliminal tempo-related echoes that add low-level interest, occasional auto-pan effects to create mix movement, transient enhancement, incidental percussion and ambient effects. You could also experiment with more extreme effects, using heavy compression, distortion and so on, but mixed in occasionally at very low levels. It's just so much easier and more fun to add such effects when you're working on headphones, and the result is a rich patina of low-level detail.
tempo related, but not quite 'altering perception of tempo'
:despair:

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Post by ear ear » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:52 pm

No, it's not the bit you've got in bold. It might not have been an article, rather one of those readers' questions they pick out every month and give an in-depth answer. I think the gist of it was that perceived tempo can be a wee bit quicker on headphones...

EDIT: just did a bit of a search, and could only find a reference to this on the SOS Forums, but nothing particularly authoritative... :hmm:

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Post by jules » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:03 am

Adding my pinch of ions.

I think the headphone mixing is becoming kind of critical in a sense.
I've got the impression that everywhere I look, people are listening to music with headphones. Of course there's the club, but I would consider that as a targeted direction to output your mixes.

Sure, a good pair of speaker, and being appropriately familiar to them is a must. But, when I look around, I see less and less people taking a real CD, with good audio files and playing it on a decent Hifi system.

And for the people I know that are not paying a lot of attention to their listening condition and environment, they are slaved to the weird itunes equalization presets and such.

Which lead me to practically trying my mixes on as many cheap headphones as I can. The white apple ones are really aggressive in the low mid range, but kind of cut the low end. I've got some cheap in-aural seinheiser ones (also common) which, as you can guess do give a massive boost between 50 and 120Hz. Then there's the "princess leia hairdo shaped ones", which used to be "audiophile" stuff, but now are wore on your way to buy milk. Most of them are also pumping bass like crazy.

My conclusion is that not only you've got to try your mix on different stereo systems, but also on different headphones, which are easily correlated to the type of music/audience of your music.
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Post by pocket dragon » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:36 pm

Greetings everyone. Better post before I get kicked out. :tu:

ear ear wrote:There was an interesting article in Sound on Sound a few years ago on things to be aware of when mixing using headphones instead of monitors. The only thing I can remember from it is something about headphones altering your perception of tempo... worth looking up.
I often find that after creating a mix in headphones and then moving to check the result in monitors, the monitor mix actually sounds much _faster_. And sloppy for some reason - especially if there are a lot of busy hi-hats or other mid-HF elements going on.

Can't find the article you mentioned but I wish I knew more about this.

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Post by causticlogic » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:55 pm

I like doing some of the mix with head phones, but only for a rough draft and as reference afterwards or I find things get lost.

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Post by goganao » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:42 am

pocket dragon wrote:Greetings everyone. Better post before I get kicked out. :tu:

ear ear wrote:There was an interesting article in Sound on Sound a few years ago on things to be aware of when mixing using headphones instead of monitors. The only thing I can remember from it is something about headphones altering your perception of tempo... worth looking up.
I often find that after creating a mix in headphones and then moving to check the result in monitors, the monitor mix actually sounds much _faster_. And sloppy for some reason - especially if there are a lot of busy hi-hats or other mid-HF elements going on.

Can't find the article you mentioned but I wish I knew more about this.
You could locate in the other sections tho! :cloud:

EDIT: Sorry! didn't check the date before posting... :bang:

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Post by thevegasnerve » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:11 am

Yeah, I try to listen to mixes in my car, monitors, and several headphones.. Really need a mono mix option..

It’s fascinating the difference and somewhat frustrating. I always use an outside mastering person to keep me in check.. And try to keep compositions sparse and pay close attention to possible pitfalls when selecting sounds. But I do trust my Beyer DT770s quite a bit, along with a quick review on my monitors.

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Post by naturligfunktion » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:55 am

jules wrote:Adding my pinch of ions.

I think the headphone mixing is becoming kind of critical in a sense.
I've got the impression that everywhere I look, people are listening to music with headphones. Of course there's the club, but I would consider that as a targeted direction to output your mixes.

Sure, a good pair of speaker, and being appropriately familiar to them is a must. But, when I look around, I see less and less people taking a real CD, with good audio files and playing it on a decent Hifi system.

And for the people I know that are not paying a lot of attention to their listening condition and environment, they are slaved to the weird itunes equalization presets and such.

Which lead me to practically trying my mixes on as many cheap headphones as I can. The white apple ones are really aggressive in the low mid range, but kind of cut the low end. I've got some cheap in-aural seinheiser ones (also common) which, as you can guess do give a massive boost between 50 and 120Hz. Then there's the "princess leia hairdo shaped ones", which used to be "audiophile" stuff, but now are wore on your way to buy milk. Most of them are also pumping bass like crazy.

My conclusion is that not only you've got to try your mix on different stereo systems, but also on different headphones, which are easily correlated to the type of music/audience of your music.
I agree on the sentiment that one should try their mixes on different speakers, headphones and so forth, as that in the end leads to a better sounding mix (I always try out my song on the laptop speakers, which is very recommended). In my experience (which is very limited..) the goal is to create a mix that sounds good, and if something is mixed properly, with a good dynamic and good levels, it tend to sounds good on different systems, be it headphones or in the car or at your friends house.

Personally, to achieve that, I really need a good pair of monitors and a good room. Headphones doesn't cut it, at all. But I absolutely need a pair of headphones for reference, as I need to listen to the mix at different speakers, in different places etc.

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Post by joeTron » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:07 pm

I'm a full time audio engineer for TV. I spend all my time on headsets cleaning and editing dialog. BEWARE WHEN USING HEADSETS!!! Often I find that pure sound shot directly into your ears isn't the same sound popping out of a monitor then into the air then finally into your ears. Especially problematic for me is choosing reverb amount.

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