Nelson Baboon wrote:ok. I'm trying not to get into it with you, but sometimes, you know, I think you just say stuff that is really off.
I, you, whoever, can criticize anyone we want. It's totally fair. And you, certainly, have done this - not only to individual musicians, but to entire modes of making music. To do this isn't to declare that one is better (whatever the fuck that means), but simply to state that one doesn't like what they hear about that composer/musician.
I mean, fuck. I have totally hated EVERYTHING I've heard from Vangelis. I hate pretty much everything I hear from plenty of musicians. And love some of it. Isn't that my right? Fuck, man - I don't like, I mean, REALLY don't like, listening to Messiaen - does that mean that somehow I consider my own music 'better' than his? I don't even know what that means.
And I totally respect your hatred of their music. That's totally not what I'm on about. It's the cavalier dismissal of something to score points in an argument that I hate.
I'm not a huge fan of Xenakis. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate his music, because I don't. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to think of any music that I hate. There are things I admire about it, but I never have an urge to listen to it. There's some Vangelis I avoid (particularly much of the post-analog stuff) because I tend to agree a little too much with felixer
's assessment about it, and I find it a little embarrassing. I don't particularly like early Messiaen. For me, he didn't hit his stride until the war, when he was in his thirties. I don't hate any of it. That's too strong a word.
And in these contexts, you obviously are trying to say stuff that provokes people. (note that I'm not using the 't' word). You manipulate people into stating their opinions in very strong terms. You cast aspersions on the way people think about music, entire modes of making music, to the point of declaring that some stuff isn't music. But you get so agitated when someone declares their taste? Fuck that. I hate Vangelis. I hate Messiaen. I'll go even further. I enjoy my own music way more than I enjoy listening to theirs. Isn't that sort of what making music creatively is about? that you're making it for yourself - that you're making music that you enjoy, and trying to make music that really satisfies you?
That's great. Opinions are worthless if they aren't strong (in my opinion). They don't have to be used as weapons of douchery, though. They can just be opinions. Everybody has different tastes. My best friend hates all the music I like, and never ceases to tell me about it. I make him listen to it anyway, because it's my car.
That doesn't mean that you don't think that these people don't have amazing talent, or that others don't love their music way, way, way more than they enjoy your own, or that your own has any objective quality.
ah, fuck it. I don't want another of these battles with you. But sometimes I just lose it, you know?
I'm a little surprised you weighed in, to be honest. However, I agree with all your points, so no battles today.