sympleSEQ v2.0 dual eurorack assembly thread

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panomega
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Post by panomega » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Ok, after another try it works!!!
Cv/gate out seq1&2, reset button!
Just not the Leds and one or two switcher (on/off/rst) that i will fix after the leds.
Pretty sure leds got to be turned, i try and let you know.

- internal clock is normaly on switcher up or down?
- clock out is always the internal one even if an external clock is feed in?

Merci

8_)

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Post by netpusher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:47 pm

Hi Hex!

I finally got around to building my sympleSeq v2 and ran into a few issues while testing. Wondering if you might give me a few pointers on troubleshooting it.

Here is what I have:
SEQ A
1. The internal clock seems unaffected by the tempo pot. It's very slow. 2. The external clock works however.
3. The gate only works on steps 4,7, and 8. On step 8 the led will not light up (I tested it out of circuit and it is fine).
4. The rest switch (switched down) work only on step 4 and step 7.
5. CV pot does not work on step 8

SEQ B
1. Gate/rest switches have no effect on the sequence.

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Post by hexinverter » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:25 pm

netpusher wrote:Hi Hex!

I finally got around to building my sympleSeq v2 and ran into a few issues while testing. Wondering if you might give me a few pointers on troubleshooting it.

Here is what I have:
SEQ A
1. The internal clock seems unaffected by the tempo pot. It's very slow. 2. The external clock works however.
3. The gate only works on steps 4,7, and 8. On step 8 the led will not light up (I tested it out of circuit and it is fine).
4. The rest switch (switched down) work only on step 4 and step 7.
5. CV pot does not work on step 8

SEQ B
1. Gate/rest switches have no effect on the sequence.
Hi there!

Hmm, it sounds like you have some funny business going on somewhere. First of all, did you build from a component kit supplied by me? I forget.

If you sourced your own parts, please write me a list of the exact part numbers you used in your build for the ICs.

If all is good in that regard, I would suggest simply looking over the board many times for shorts/missed solder joints/etc.

It's quite easy to miss soldering one of those little pads on a potentiometer and not spot the error on a quick first or second inspection of the board.

Be especially scrutinising of the pads for the jumpers that connect the two boards together -- on both boards, look very carefully for shorts on these jumpers. There are a lot of pads close together so the probability is quite high that you bridged a joint or there is a small remnant of wire shorting some pins.
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Post by netpusher » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:39 pm

hexinverter wrote:
netpusher wrote:Hi Hex!

I finally got around to building my sympleSeq v2 and ran into a few issues while testing. Wondering if you might give me a few pointers on troubleshooting it.

Here is what I have:
SEQ A
1. The internal clock seems unaffected by the tempo pot. It's very slow. 2. The external clock works however.
3. The gate only works on steps 4,7, and 8. On step 8 the led will not light up (I tested it out of circuit and it is fine).
4. The rest switch (switched down) work only on step 4 and step 7.
5. CV pot does not work on step 8

SEQ B
1. Gate/rest switches have no effect on the sequence.
Hi there!

Hmm, it sounds like you have some funny business going on somewhere. First of all, did you build from a component kit supplied by me? I forget.

If you sourced your own parts, please write me a list of the exact part numbers you used in your build for the ICs.

If all is good in that regard, I would suggest simply looking over the board many times for shorts/missed solder joints/etc.

It's quite easy to miss soldering one of those little pads on a potentiometer and not spot the error on a quick first or second inspection of the board.

Be especially scrutinising of the pads for the jumpers that connect the two boards together -- on both boards, look very carefully for shorts on these jumpers. There are a lot of pads close together so the probability is quite high that you bridged a joint or there is a small remnant of wire shorting some pins.
I sourced my own parts on this one. Here are the IC's I used:

Mouser #'s:
595-UA78L10ACLPRE3
512-LM78L05ACZ

595-TLC274INE4
595-CD4093BE
cd4017be

I'll go over the board tonight to check for cold solder joints and any oddities. Are there any test point's I can check for voltage values that might aid in my quest?

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Post by netpusher » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:55 pm

I figured out the gate and CV issues for seq A and seq B. I had accidentally soldered a couple on/off switches in the place of an on/off/on switch for both seq A and B. I had found this out earlier and removed the switch but damaged the pads which broke continuity between the opposite side of the board. I fixed this by running a small wire through the hole to join the side together and it works fine.

The only remaining issue is the internal tempo which is still really slow and is not affected by the pot at all. I used 100K linear pots, do you think I should drop the value down to 5K or so?

This is the mouser # for the ones I used BTW:
317-2090F-100K

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Post by hexinverter » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:55 am

netpusher wrote:I figured out the gate and CV issues for seq A and seq B. I had accidentally soldered a couple on/off switches in the place of an on/off/on switch for both seq A and B. I had found this out earlier and removed the switch but damaged the pads which broke continuity between the opposite side of the board. I fixed this by running a small wire through the hole to join the side together and it works fine.

The only remaining issue is the internal tempo which is still really slow and is not affected by the pot at all. I used 100K linear pots, do you think I should drop the value down to 5K or so?

This is the mouser # for the ones I used BTW:
317-2090F-100K
Ah, that's good to hear you figured it out! Yes, it's important to use the right switches in the right place in this design!

Hmm, it sounds to me like you might have accidentally used 100k resistors in the two places on the logic board where you are supposed to use 100R resistors. Please go back and check over the logic board to see what value of resistors you have placed in R18.1 and R18.2 (parts overlay can be viewed here: http://cv.hexinverter.net/?projects=sym ... 0-eurorack )

If that's not it, I really don't have much else to suggest! What size capacitors did you use for C6.1 and C6.2?
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Post by netpusher » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:10 pm

hexinverter wrote:
netpusher wrote:I figured out the gate and CV issues for seq A and seq B. I had accidentally soldered a couple on/off switches in the place of an on/off/on switch for both seq A and B. I had found this out earlier and removed the switch but damaged the pads which broke continuity between the opposite side of the board. I fixed this by running a small wire through the hole to join the side together and it works fine.

The only remaining issue is the internal tempo which is still really slow and is not affected by the pot at all. I used 100K linear pots, do you think I should drop the value down to 5K or so?

This is the mouser # for the ones I used BTW:
317-2090F-100K
Ah, that's good to hear you figured it out! Yes, it's important to use the right switches in the right place in this design!

Hmm, it sounds to me like you might have accidentally used 100k resistors in the two places on the logic board where you are supposed to use 100R resistors. Please go back and check over the logic board to see what value of resistors you have placed in R18.1 and R18.2 (parts overlay can be viewed here: http://cv.hexinverter.net/?projects=sym ... 0-eurorack )

If that's not it, I really don't have much else to suggest! What size capacitors did you use for C6.1 and C6.2?
Yup! Looks like that's exactly what I did! Thanks for the help in getting this straight man, much appreciated!

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Post by hexinverter » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:15 pm

netpusher wrote:Yup! Looks like that's exactly what I did! Thanks for the help in getting this straight man, much appreciated!
Haha! Score :) No problem dude :tu:
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Post by monno » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:35 am

Anyone found cheaper alternatives to the Mouser switches suggested?
It´s pretty much the only thing left for me to drop in and my sequencer should be (fingers crossed) working. The prospect of some 3 odd € per switch has put this project on the back burner somewhat. I still need to finish it up and may have to go for the pricey ones, so i can finally make it light up.

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Post by hexinverter » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:28 am

monno wrote:Anyone found cheaper alternatives to the Mouser switches suggested?
It´s pretty much the only thing left for me to drop in and my sequencer should be (fingers crossed) working. The prospect of some 3 odd € per switch has put this project on the back burner somewhat. I still need to finish it up and may have to go for the pricey ones, so i can finally make it light up.
I know of no substitutes that are equal in quality. Sorry! They are the most expensive part of the project for sure (well, besides the panel...)
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Post by monno » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:03 am

Pricey ones it is then. Not a major headache since they will be part of a much larger Mouser order involving other projects.
Already shuddering thinking about customs on this order, but it´s all good.

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Post by hexinverter » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:16 am

monno wrote:Pricey ones it is then. Not a major headache since they will be part of a much larger Mouser order involving other projects.
Already shuddering thinking about customs on this order, but it´s all good.
Have you ordered from Mouser before? :) Not sure how it works over there, but here in Canada the duties are all paid in the cost of the parts. You just make sure you order in your local currency and it's all already factored in.

They may not offer that there though! I don't know.

Best of luck! :tu:
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Post by hpsounds » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:04 pm

I've finally finished my Dual Euro SympleSEQ mkII that was on hold during several months (I've got the panel from Stacy some weeks ago ...). The sequencers are running nicely with the internal clock and the external one too. nfortunately, I have problems with both the GATE and the CV outputs.

The shape of the GATE signal seems far from perfect and is seen as several triggers by other modules ( S&H IN of the Sportmodulator, TRIG IN of the Quantimator, A-148). I've recorded a train of trig in my DAW (fast enough to be seen as a low frequency audio signal) : the top of the square is tilted, the edges of the square are with spikes.

:cry:

The CVs are not constant after each loop and sometime it depends how many gate switches are ON or OFF ...

:bang:

I've inspected several times the PCBs with a lens : no solder joint problem, each electronic component has the right orientation (diodes, caps, ICs).

I don't know what to check, what to do ... :despair: :help: :hail:

Hédi K.

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Post by hexinverter » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:18 pm

hpsounds wrote:I've finally finished my Dual Euro SympleSEQ mkII that was on hold during several months (I've got the panel from Stacy some weeks ago ...). The sequencers are running nicely with the internal clock and the external one too. nfortunately, I have problems with both the GATE and the CV outputs.

The shape of the GATE signal seems far from perfect and is seen as several triggers by other modules ( S&H IN of the Sportmodulator, TRIG IN of the Quantimator, A-148). I've recorded a train of trig in my DAW (fast enough to be seen as a low frequency audio signal) : the top of the square is tilted, the edges of the square are with spikes.

:cry:

The CVs are not constant after each loop and sometime it depends how many gate switches are ON or OFF ...

:bang:

I've inspected several times the PCBs with a lens : no solder joint problem, each electronic component has the right orientation (diodes, caps, ICs).

I don't know what to check, what to do ... :despair: :help: :hail:

Hédi K.
There are indeed some ghost triggers as seen by some really sensitive trigger inputs on other devices. Very brief duration (a couple of microseconds if I recall correct) ~1V pulse occurs after a gate signal. Sadly this is a side effect of the simple design :( You can avoid it by pinging most analogue envelopes to condition it before the sensitive input you are using it with. It is a shortcoming of the design sadly, and part of the reason why I've discontinued the project as of Orbitals' introduction. I didn't notice it during testing since my system doesn't notice the ghost trigger pulses, so it wasn't until someone else experienced it that it became evident that it's there. :(

The gate outputs being sloped/not perfectly square are probably normal. There is actually no such thing as a perfect square wave in the electronics world :) Even the snappiest of square waves will be hugely sloped as you zoom in with an oscilloscope. There is a rise and fall time to every voltage shift, no matter how small. If it's really abnormal though it may be something wrong.

I have no idea what is going on with your CV outputs or where to start giving advice other than to verify that you used the right opamps (did you use a kit? I can't remember) or to suggest you go over everything again. It's pretty easy to have a little flake of solder shorting one of the .1" header pins and not see it the first few passes.

Best of luck!!! :cloud:
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Post by hpsounds » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:39 pm

Thanks Stacy for the explanations ! :wink: Yes, I've experienced the "ghost" triggers but I can condition them thanks to the SQR output of my Envelators that output a square gate when the envelope is fired (square length = attack duration).

For the CVs problems, I will inspect agin the PCBs. But using a quantizer solves most of problems.

:tu:

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Post by hexinverter » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:26 pm

hpsounds wrote:Thanks Stacy for the explanations ! :wink: Yes, I've experienced the "ghost" triggers but I can condition them thanks to the SQR output of my Envelators that output a square gate when the envelope is fired (square length = attack duration).

For the CVs problems, I will inspect agin the PCBs. But using a quantizer solves most of problems.

:tu:
No problem man! Let me know if there's anything else I can help with! :tu:
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Post by monno » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:53 pm

Well i finally finished up my build and apart from Mouser leaving out the led´s for the bottom row everything sprang to life on first power up. I did notice the double triggering happening on my quadra, but my other envelopes seem to be ok with it.

It was a nice and easy build for me with plenty of space to work. The sheer amount of board mounting needed might seem fiddly but i think i managed pretty ok, thanks in large part to a well documented project and assembly guide.

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Post by radiokoala » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:24 am

Hi, I need some troubleshooting. (SympleSEQ Ver 1.0)

I built it yesterday and was very happy to see leds running in sequence, as well as tempo knob and clock output to work. Unfortunately there is no output from a CV jack. If I short circuit a CV pad and R2 or R8 (or both - as there is too small space to know for sure), I can get something resembling a sequence out of this jack - but then, tuning pots does nothing, it always sounds the same :eek:

Another thing, hex told me I can run it with no switches - it will only make it work in switch middle setting (gate off). So other than switches I have absolutely everything soldered. But also when I tried to solderlessly connect contacts 2 & 3 (that make sequence reset), I still always had leds running 1 to 8... so if this functionality (reset) is broken too, that might be yet another hint as to what part of a circuit is not working.

Did anyone else had similar issues? That's my first DIY project, so take this into account and thank you kindly :)
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Post by radiokoala » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:32 am

Update: hm appears I have 15k resistors instead of 1K at R3 and R4 for whatever reason... :despair: Will change them and see how it goes!

Update 2: and ceramic caps are all 1 uF not 0.1 :doh: Here though I'm certain radio store guy sold me wrong stuff....ouch....now off to drilling holes or sucking solder out :bananaguitar: :deadbanana:
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Post by abelovesfun » Mon May 26, 2014 7:18 pm

I built 6 sympleseqs (universal), 4 for myself in one of Big Blue Waves MU panel, and two for maybe me, maybe someone else... depending on what my needs would be and how I liked the sequencers.

I built them all at the same time, but for some reason the 4 in the panel are working fine, but the two others are both showing the same weird behavior: They work on external clock in, but they don't step-through sequences on their internal clocks.

I've triple checked both of them, and can't seem to figure out the issue. I've also tried out several different IC combinations but to no avail. Has anyone ever come across this?

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Post by maccadelic » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:12 pm

abelovesfun wrote:I've triple checked both of them, and can't seem to figure out the issue. I've also tried out several different IC combinations but to no avail. Has anyone ever come across this?
I have exactly the same problem. Each unit does not sequence on it's own, but if i connect the clk-out to clock-in on the other sympleseq, it works.

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Post by Bamboombaps » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:42 pm

does anyone have a spare set lying around for a slowpoke :waah:

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