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VortexRanger
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Fish Questions

Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:03 pm

I'm going to post Fish questions here as I come across them. There will probably be lots! Because I am finding it to be slow-going.

First of all, I cannot get togo to do anything.

Here's what I'm doing, trying to get the most basic use:

Image

I would think that this would let me use minor and minorb to move forward and backward through a list of numes for the horn, thereby changing its pitch each time I press a button. But I'm getting nothing, just an unchanging tone. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
:hobbes:

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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:16 pm

the horn and togo are fine, the problem is that you have 'left' as your sound input and the horn as your 'place' in the panned stereo field. i think you are hearing that rogue '50' that's just sitting there at the end. if you delete pan and the 50 and just listen through the left dac it will work fine. in general, the italic labels will tell you how each fish is functioning in your patch.

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:29 pm

bartlebooth wrote:the horn and togo are fine, the problem is that you have 'left' as your sound input and the horn as your 'place' in the panned stereo field. i think you are hearing that rogue '50' that's just sitting there at the end. if you delete pan and the 50 and just listen through the left dac it will work fine. in general, the italic labels will tell you how each fish is functioning in your patch.
Thank you for the quick answer! I actually should've known better than to make those mistakes, I just threw that patch together to keep it simple.

Here's what I have now:

Image

Unfortunately, still no reaction from the minor buttons. The first value in the togo liszt seems to be interpreted as the nume, as I can change the nume by changing that value and reuploading.

Also, what would you suggest as the simplest way to duplicate the left DAC so it's also routed to the right DAC? I'd been using pan but clearly that was pretty easy to mess up.
:hobbes:

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:39 pm

put your whole left fish (including the horn,togob,and so on...) in a [right]

you hear everything at both outputs

with the pan you place your sound source like a horn at the inn gut and your modulations (swoop,mount,bar...) go at the place gut

you had it just about right don't let that discourage you form using it

i see the problem

your minor are not actual opcodes
well I'm not sure what actually happens but sometimes if you drag an opcode from within your patch from the wrong place (try to grab the handles on the bottom of the fish) it will reconfigure itself somehow

simply re-drag the minors from the calanque

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:44 pm

Image

this is what you should be looking at do you see the difference?

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:48 pm

wednesdayayay wrote:put your whole left fish (including the horn,togob,and so on...) in a [right]

you hear everything at both outputs

with the pan you place your sound source like a horn at the inn gut and your modulations (swoop,mount,bar...) go at the place gut

you had it just about right don't let that discourage you form using it

i see the problem

your minor are not actual opcodes
well I'm not sure what actually happens but sometimes if you drag an opcode from within your patch from the wrong place (try to grab the handles on the bottom of the fish) it will reconfigure itself somehow

simply re-drag the minors from the calanque
Thank you! I did not realize the opcodes could be corrupted like that. A lot of my confusion has stemmed from dragging stuff from one place to another and having the patch reconfigure itself in a way I'm not expecting. Still, for now I think I am better off with Fish than trying to do shlisp from scratch, interface confusion notwithstanding.

That solved my problem! I've been trying to get togo to work for days now.
:hobbes:

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:50 pm

wednesdayayay wrote:Image

this is what you should be looking at do you see the difference?
Yes, so the actual opcodes will create that vertical space between the name of the opcode and the italic name of the function?
:hobbes:

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:52 pm

so if you drag minord from where it says uptrig it will move the whatever it encompasses (like if you wanted to move this whole horn assembly to the right dac instead of left you would do so by clicking where it says lizst under the horn)

if you instead click and drag from where it say minord it will give the same results as you you have posted above

I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug yet :goo:

when in doubt if you aren't getting any sound


check that nothing screwy happened with your opcode labeling like above
maybe up your srate by 1 if things start to sound really slowed down and "on cough syrup"
if things are really hairy unplug your USB and turn your shnth off
hold down the tare button for the corps and plug in the usb while holding
then let go of the tare button
then upload one of the patches that came with the fish download from peter
then unplug and replug/turn on and make sure that patch is working

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:57 pm

yeah when I was dragging stuff around and didn't know that I got really frustrated.

yes in my experience so far the opcodes do create that extra space

I just was messing around with the shnth today trying to tame/tune it a little it can sound quite pleasant

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:00 pm

This is VERY helpful thank you! I have had all sorts of frustrations, I think some of them are happening when I type in the names of opcodes instead of dragging from the calanque. This appears to be sorting out most of my problems.
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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:00 pm

wednesdayayay wrote: I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug yet :goo:
its a feature! its what allows you to circuit-bend the matrix by making fish modulate the identity of other fish (putting a fish in the head of another fish).

as a rule of thumb, until you're comfortable in fish you should always drag new fish from the calanque unless you are just changing to a different fish with the same parameters (ie from a horn to a saw or from a fog to a swamp).

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:08 pm

oh this makes sense as I haven't even thought about diving into matrix bending yet

This is a good rule of thumb

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:12 pm

wednesdayayay wrote: check that nothing screwy happened with your opcode labeling like above
maybe up your srate by 1 if things start to sound really slowed down and "on cough syrup"
if things are really hairy unplug your USB and turn your shnth off
hold down the tare button for the corps and plug in the usb while holding
then let go of the tare button
then upload one of the patches that came with the fish download from peter
then unplug and replug/turn on and make sure that patch is working
So this would be "orange light mode" right?

More often what happens to me is the uploader stops at 29% or so and I get no response from the Gwonzer or audio from the Shnth. I don't know if it's because of bad code or maybe a bad USB connection (I'm using a pretty old cable, been meaning to replace) Is there any way to get out of that state without waiting like 10 minutes for it to go thru orange light affair?
:hobbes:

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:21 pm

bartlebooth wrote:
wednesdayayay wrote: I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug yet :goo:
its a feature! its what allows you to circuit-bend the matrix by making fish modulate the identity of other fish (putting a fish in the head of another fish).

as a rule of thumb, until you're comfortable in fish you should always drag new fish from the calanque unless you are just changing to a different fish with the same parameters (ie from a horn to a saw or from a fog to a swamp).
I really wish I'd read this little tidbit of advice two weeks ago! Things are suddenly making a lot more sense. Thanks bartlebooth!
:hobbes:

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:31 pm

when you upload something in the orange light affair and then unplug it everything is reset to normal your don't have to wait any longer than it takes to upload a good patch and unplug your cable


I really enjoy having the gwonzer

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:38 pm

wednesdayayay wrote:when you upload something in the orange light affair and then unplug it everything is reset to normal your don't have to wait any longer than it takes to upload a good patch and unplug your cable


I really enjoy having the gwonzer
Oh, sweet! So nothing is really happening during the OLA except whatever you are uploading?
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:45 pm

yeah I think it like the shnths "safe mode"
it is also nice to know that you are going to have to use this function from time to time. I remember thinking I had bricked my shnth when I first had to use it I was ready to buy another one and figure out what I had done wrong when I remembered reading about the mysterious orange light affair.

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Post by windspirit » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:48 pm

double double
Last edited by windspirit on Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by windspirit » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:49 pm

I generally double click everything that i am dragging to make it "milky" just to be sure it shows up correctly at its destination.

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:51 pm

wednesdayayay wrote:yeah I think it like the shnths "safe mode"
it is also nice to know that you are going to have to use this function from time to time. I remember thinking I had bricked my shnth when I first had to use it I was ready to buy another one and figure out what I had done wrong when I remembered reading about the mysterious orange light affair.
Oh, me too! Only I have been waiting through the full process every single time up to now, and crossing my fingers each time I serve a boullabaise!
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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:04 pm

windspirit wrote:I generally double click everything that i am dragging to make it "milky" just to be sure it shows up correctly at its destination.
Can you explain that? I've done it by accident a time or two, but I still don't really know what the milky look actually means.
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Post by regenbot » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:07 pm

orange light affair? milky look? what the hell i got myself into when i ordered this :help: Can't wait :hihi:

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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:10 pm

milky usually means frozen fish for when you want to randuplicate without changing some parameters. i'm not sure how windspirit is using it here though?

oh i mentioned two-headed fish before so here's an example..these are officially known as 'dynamic mexps' which means that the opcode identity itself is dynamic..your gesture or other fish can modulate its matrix entry in real time. these can get pretty hairy and cause orange light affairs but can also be the source of some incredible sounds. play this one with the corps..

{([srate] 8 )

; dynamic mexp -note how the fog has two fish in its head!
([left] ([right] ([wave] ((([corp] )12 [fogd] )([dustd] ([corpb] 32 ))80 -125 -76 40 )-14 ((([corp] )12 [fogd] )))))
}
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:15 pm

i believe the milky look has to do with the randuplicate feature
Not sure I'f you have used this yet but in fish you can randomize all the guts (like the nume and deno in your horns for instance) and duplicate a whole patch to a new patch in your bouillabaisse so you can step through variations of a patch with [bend]

I think highlighting a fish by double click precludes it from the randomization aspect of the randuplication

but nothing else that I'm aware of

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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:34 pm

that is a fun little noise making patch although I couldn't get it to run for more than 30 seconds at most without it crashing

I've still got so much to learn about this little synth

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