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bartlebooth
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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:00 pm

hmm i can run it with no problems here. but yeah, i guess these patches are kinda pushing things to the extreme. like this one for example:

;joewalsh
{(jump (major 1 ))(jump (major 1 ))(left (103 ((3 )8 (122 (199 (17 56 30 (73 83 )(3 ))(19 -44 -12 (2 )))(76 33 )(186 (178 -5 (211 -39 -86 ))(66 ))))8 (7 22 -109 )106 ))}
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VortexRanger
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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:26 pm

wednesdayayay wrote:i believe the milky look has to do with the randuplicate feature
Not sure I'f you have used this yet but in fish you can randomize all the guts (like the nume and deno in your horns for instance) and duplicate a whole patch to a new patch in your bouillabaisse so you can step through variations of a patch with [bend]

I think highlighting a fish by double click precludes it from the randomization aspect of the randuplication

but nothing else that I'm aware of
Ah, very nice to know! I haven't used randuplicate much because I find I usually have to change most of the values anyway to make them useable.
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Post by windspirit » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:37 pm

Oh, i always thought the milky look was to select an entire chunk of code in order to move it... :despair:

You just double click for the milky milk

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Post by VortexRanger » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:55 pm

OK, here's another question:

How does the "slave" opcode work? I was expecting basically a clock divider, with the deno setting the number of trigs between outputs.

In this example here:

Image

The deno is set to 2, and it outputs every four presses of the major button. It seems to multiply any deno by two, so for 3 it's every six presses etc.

I tried adding a mul after with a value of 64 to half the value, but it doesn't seem to have any effect.
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Post by wednesdayayay » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:10 pm

perhaps it is looking for a different trigger than what the butt gives

I still don't have a good handle over slave or pulse

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Post by VortexRanger » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:33 pm

Pulse seems to be just a simple decay-only envelope, or at least that's how I've been using it.
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Post by krz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:20 pm

Ummm...Shnth forum lonely? :(

http://shbobo.net/forum

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Post by kozepz » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:57 am

VortexRanger wrote:Pulse seems to be just a simple decay-only envelope, or at least that's how I've been using it.
Seems like its so!
a8: pulse trig deno mul add: trigger a pulse and decay with variable height; 8 pieces

Hope mine will arrive soon :party:
Cant wait to get frustrated over fishing :hihi:

Following the shlisp page I made a listing of the mexps, their parameters and description.

1: wind mul add: microphone; 1 pieces
2: corp mul add: antennae; 2 pieces
4: bar mul add: barflex; 4 pieces
8: minor mul add: lower buttons; 4 pieces
c: major mul add: upper buttons; 4 pieces
10: horn nume deno mul add: triangle waveform; 8 pieces
18: saw nume deno mul add: sawtooth waveform; 8 pieces
28: toggle trig mul add: trigger a flipflop; 8 pieces
20: togo uptrig dntrig liszt: sequencer; 8 pieces
30: swoop trig nume deno mul add: trigger a pyramid; 8 pieces
38: mount nume deno mul add: slow triangle waveform; 8 pieces
40: smoke mul add: random noise; 8 pieces
48: dust speed mul add: random pulses; 8 pieces
50: fog trig swnu swde honu hode mul add: trigger triangular grains; 4 pieces
58: haze trig swnu swde sanu sade mul add: trigger sawtooth grains; 4 pieces
54: swamp trig swnu swde honu hode mul add: trigger swooping grains; 4 pieces
60: string trig nume deno fb mul add: trigger a pluckd string; 4 pieces
64: comb inn nume deno fb mul add: input sound to the string; 4 pieces
68: zither trig deno mul add: trigger a bunch strings; 4 pieces
70: wave inn q rate mul add: low pass filter; 8 pieces
78: water trig q rate mul add: trigger a cluster of waves; 4 pieces
7c: salt inn q rate mul add: hi pass filter; 4 pieces
80: horse upnu dnnu upde dnde mul add: variable duty sawtri; 4 pieces
90: slew inn upp don mul add: filter a signal with different up and down rates; 8 pieces
98: wheel upp don mul add: input numbers to bring the value up or down; 8 pieces
a0: slave trig deno mul add: count pulses by variable integer amount; 8 pieces
a8: pulse trig deno mul add: trigger a pulse and decay with variable height; 8 pieces
b0: sauce per inn mul add: slow down an input by a period; 8 pieces
b8: salsa trig inn mul add: selectively trigger an input; 8 pieces
e0: press inn att dec thresh mul add: compressor; 4 pieces
e4: leak inn nume mul add: leak DC from a sound; 4 pieces
e8: reflect inn oth mul add: waveshaper that reflects; 1 pieces
e9: return inn oth mul add: waveshaper that returns; 1 pieces
ea: and inn oth mul add: bitwise and of two signals; 1 pieces
eb: xor inn oth mul add: bitwise xor of two signals; 1 pieces
f2: negwon : return negative one; 1 pieces
f0: left liszt: send sound out the left; 1 pieces
f1: right liszt: send sound out the right; 1 pieces
f2: square inn oth mul add: make an input into a square, compared against an optional other; 1 pieces
f3: modo inn mod mul add: multiply without scaling; 1 pieces
f4: srate inn: change the sample rate!; 1 pieces
f5: mul inn mul add: multiply scaling; 1 pieces
f6: add liszt: add a liszt; 1 pieces
f7: tar mul add: tarbutton; 1 pieces
f8: bend inn: bend through the fish soup; 1 pieces
f9: jump trig: trigger a jump to another soup; 1 pieces
fa: pan inn place: send sound out spatialized; 1 pieces
fb: short bigg smal: sixteen bit precision number; 1 pieces
fc: dirac liszt: default, execute using negative numbers; 1 pieces
fd: arab liszt: esoteric, execute using no negatives; 1 pieces
fe: lights inn: put an input to the LEDs; 1 pieces

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VortexRanger
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Post by VortexRanger » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:32 am

a0: slave trig deno mul add: count pulses by variable integer amount; 8 pieces
Hmm, now I'm seeing that it says "count pulses I wonder if that means the input has to be a pulse (as in the pulse opcode)? I'll have to try it later. But the button did work with it, the integer was just doubled, problem being I couldn't get odd divisions.
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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:38 pm

How does sauce differ from slew? Is it like a delay? So far I haven't noticed it behaving any differently from the way whatever is at the inn would behave anyway. Anyone have examples?

Thanx
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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:05 pm

sauce is like a localized sample rate, it slows things down by waiting a specified number of samples. you can hear this if you put audio into a sauce and then vary the delay period with a bar or corp, it will sound similar to messing with the speed knob on a cocoqauntus. yuo can also use it to get really long envelopes with mount or swoop. modulating sauce can get you some really wild results. slew smooths out the changes in values, similar to a filter..low parameter values means more slewing. a common use of slew is to make squares and buttons into envelopes.
Last edited by bartlebooth on Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:09 pm

Thanks again for the fast and informative response bartlebooth! I'll give it a try.

So, if you pick the number of samples, does this mean you can get slower results by switching to Arabic mode (negative numbers would seem to imply a look into the future that even the Shnth might have trouble with)?
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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:28 pm

VortexRanger wrote: So, if you pick the number of samples, does this mean you can get slower results by switching to Arabic mode (negative numbers would seem to imply a look into the future that even the Shnth might have trouble with)?
not but that would be cool though! for opcodes which don't utilize negative numbers arab mode will typically give you a finer granularity but the range covered will be the same as in dirac.

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Post by VortexRanger » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:49 am

Very nice! I really haven't dug into arabic yet.

I am loving modulation of the sample rate. The further I dig into this thing the more fine control I find!

More questions:

- Are you able to shed light on the behavior of slave? Is it possible for it to divide by odd integers? I haven't figured out how to make that happen yet.

- Is there any way to shift through togo values non-linearly (address them)? For example, I'd like to use a salsa whose output is forced to be one of a list of values I provide, sort of like running S/H through a quantizer.
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Post by windspirit » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:05 pm

VortexRanger wrote: - Is there any way to shift through togo values non-linearly (address them)? For example, I'd like to use a salsa whose output is forced to be one of a list of values I provide, sort of like running S/H through a quantizer.
I loaded a patch w a quantizer that i scratched together using a bunch of scaled squares that i added together. Its on the shbobo forum in the situation section i believe its called scalecorps but its the only patch uploaded by windspirit in there.

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Post by wednesdayayay » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:23 pm

It would be nice to have a sequencer with a random gut which when sent a trigger randomly selects from one of the values stored inside. But that isn't what you are asking for

I feel like with the original s trig or whatever it was input for Togo you may have been able to do this but I didn't mess around with it too much before it was changed

Being able to individually address them would take some doing

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Post by VortexRanger » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:17 pm

Well, I was thinking something like bend, but for Togo instead of bouillabase selection.
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Post by VortexRanger » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 pm

windspirit wrote:
VortexRanger wrote: - Is there any way to shift through togo values non-linearly (address them)? For example, I'd like to use a salsa whose output is forced to be one of a list of values I provide, sort of like running S/H through a quantizer.
I loaded a patch w a quantizer that i scratched together using a bunch of scaled squares that i added together. Its on the shbobo forum in the situation section i believe its called scalecorps but its the only patch uploaded by windspirit in there.
I just checked this out. Nice idea! I've done something similar in hardware modular using multiple comparators as a window comparator, but hadn't thought to try it here.
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Post by VortexRanger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:22 am

So, I knew this was the case in general, but it hadn't occurred to me that you can put anything in a togo specifically, not just numbers. Bars, horns, even other togos! Even the same togo if you want to impress Borges or Foucault or somebody (though that just causes the togo to reset). I'm very excited by this, it means some amount of "repatching" is possible on the fly without having to leave the boullabaise.

Also, I figured out how to get quantized random values: trigger a togo at audio rate and use the same togo as the input to a salsa.

Image

;bb
{(togoc (square 8 (hornd -119 15 )3 )-103 15 90 45 60 30 )
(left (right (hornc (salsae (dust -32 )(togoc ))45 (pulsed (dust )15 ))))}
:hobbes:

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Post by wednesdayayay » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:14 am

nice work! I'll have to give that a try

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Post by VortexRanger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:14 am

VortexRanger wrote:So, I knew this was the case in general, but it hadn't occurred to me that you can put anything in a togo specifically, not just numbers. Bars, horns, even other togos! Even the same togo if you want to impress Borges or Foucault or somebody (though that just causes the togo to reset). I'm very excited by this, it means some amount of "repatching" is possible on the fly without having to leave the boullabaise.

Also, I figured out how to get quantized random values: trigger a togo at audio rate and use the same togo as the input to a salsa.

Image

;bb
{(togoc (square 8 (hornd -119 15 )3 )-103 15 90 45 60 30 )
(left (right (hornc (salsae (dust -32 )(togoc ))45 (pulsed (dust )15 ))))}
BTW that mul of the square by 3 is totally unnecessary, must have been an artifact of adding guts.
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Post by VortexRanger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:15 pm

Just thought of something. Will slave allow me access to odd integers if I run it in Arab mode? bartlebooth dropped a clue my way a few posts back. Gotta get home and try it!

EDIT: Confirmed!
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Post by bartlebooth » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:32 am

VortexRanger wrote:So, I knew this was the case in general, but it hadn't occurred to me that you can put anything in a togo specifically, not just numbers. Bars, horns, even other togos!
yeah this is a very interesting use of togos, basically sequencing other opcodes. try it at audio rate or just below, you can get some really wild timbres that way. another thing to try is to use jump as a 'meta-togo' that sequences patches (each of which can contain togos sequencing opcodes at different rates,etc). in fact using jump in this way is another solution to your 'random togo' question..just make the mul of your jump to be a salsa/s&h and then change the values of the parameters in each bouillabaisse.

an important point that i think sometimes gets lost is that with the shnth there really isn't a hard distinction between what's in a single patch and what's in all patches (bouillabaises), i think people are used to having 'presets' in synths and then changing the preset but in the shnth its more like these are all just different possible states that can be changed to at each sample tick. just as there isn't a distinction between number values and synth operations, they are all just s-expressions so they can all be substituted for each other in any and every place. its in this recursion that lies the real power of computer music.

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Post by VortexRanger » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:30 am

bartlebooth wrote:
VortexRanger wrote:So, I knew this was the case in general, but it hadn't occurred to me that you can put anything in a togo specifically, not just numbers. Bars, horns, even other togos!
yeah this is a very interesting use of togos, basically sequencing other opcodes. try it at audio rate or just below, you can get some really wild timbres that way. another thing to try is to use jump as a 'meta-togo' that sequences patches (each of which can contain togos sequencing opcodes at different rates,etc). in fact using jump in this way is another solution to your 'random togo' question..just make the mul of your jump to be a salsa/s&h and then change the values of the parameters in each bouillabaisse.
Excellent food for thought. Actually my search for addressing of togos was born out of the fact I was doing just this with jump/bend, but to switch between relatively small variations on a situation, like what the bars were doing. In home and studio it is great fun to make a giant pile of boullabaises and bend through them madly, but I am also looking to have a number of situations that are totally independent for performance or when I'm on the go/away from the computer and want to show off the variety of the shnth or just sit playing it.
an important point that i think sometimes gets lost is that with the shnth there really isn't a hard distinction between what's in a single patch and what's in all patches (bouillabaises), i think people are used to having 'presets' in synths and then changing the preset but in the shnth its more like these are all just different possible states that can be changed to at each sample tick. just as there isn't a distinction between number values and synth operations, they are all just s-expressions so they can all be substituted for each other in any and every place. its in this recursion that lies the real power of computer music.
Yes these are fantastic points and I'm totally on board and getting more excited all the time!

I am a creature of two musical worlds I think. Here we have the shnth, a user-definable hardware modular device specifically designed to give users low-level access to just intonation and any other tuning idea they might like, and half the user questions I come across are about how to force it into a 12-tet scale. Well, it can be done, and this is a complete instrument.

And I sympathize with every approach, because I only have one piano and no matter how cool the idea of just intonation is, I still want to be able to play Beethoven sonatas!

But nobody has "just one" shnth.

Thanks for your time bartlebooth!
:hobbes:

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Post by VortexRanger » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:30 pm

New frontiers on the fish horizon! Will post examples soon.

- inversion of the bar and Arabic to capture press, but not release, data

- oscillator beating experiments with short

- many-op FM

May I ask, what would somebody use modo for? It's multiplication without scaling. How does it differ from a mul of 127?
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