Can't get into programming the shnth

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kozepz
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Post by kozepz » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:45 pm

notb wrote: speaking of 'sequencers', i put together this wacky thing that runs off of 'slaves'. see, usually, a mount (LFO) will get squared to be used as a trigger and it acts as a click like that, a metronome. well, instead, i trigger a 'slave' (its like a counter that increments when triggered) with a horn! so it counts very fast (and wraps around) and i square that. and so the square of the slave is my metronome and its a subdivision of the horn tone, higher pitched horn means faster click. but wait! i have two of these with different horns so they are like asynchronous clocks. and even more, i XOR the two slave values and square that result for a third trigger that has an interplay between the two clocks and sort of swings along the upbeats. there's some togos in there too to get a bit of a repetition in the 'melody' and i comb filter it all for delayish echoey effects. there's a lot more to this patch, but it's less complicated than it seems (hopefully). it's a relatively short patch. also, i should probably mention that it starts of dead (intentionally) you'll have to press some buttons to get it going, specifically, you gotta press minor/major simultaneously to salsa (sample and hold) some smoke (random values).

Horn Slaves Sequencer
https://soundcloud.com/notb/pcbs-at-dusk
:party: :party: :party:
Thats an awesome patch! Love the delayish echoey effects :sb:

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:12 pm

[video][/video]

this is using the last txt file I posted

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chorus7
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Post by chorus7 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:08 am

wednesdayayay I finally had a chance to run the text! and they are amazing! Thanks you so much :hail:

I'm still trying to get my head around where to place modifiers... In the front of the module, inside or back (small blue or green ovals)... So if I wanted a horn to have a slow envelope is it the horn that gets the modifier or is it the sound source that gets the modifier (hope this makes sense :hmm: )...

I should watch Steve's tutorials again... My only problem with the Shnth is I feel like most of the time I'm trying to put a square peg into a round hole... I love and hate experimenting, I need to know whats going on when I do something... I think I might need to battle my OCD on this and let myself go...

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Post by Mashmore » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:13 pm

[quote="chorus7"
I'm still trying to get my head around where to place modifiers... In the front of the module, inside or back (small blue or green ovals)... So if I wanted a horn to have a slow envelope is it the horn that gets the modifier or is it the sound source that gets the modifier (hope this makes sense :hmm: )...

I should watch Steve's tutorials again... My only problem with the Shnth is I feel like most of the time I'm trying to put a square peg into a round hole... I love and hate experimenting, I need to know whats going on when I do something... I think I might need to battle my OCD on this and let myself go...[/quote]

I think I may be able to help Here. first of all, IMO Shlow and Shteady wins the race when fishing. Normally I dive feet first into things like you; But, the best thing for me is realizing fish is a somewhat a one of kind experience and the mental workflow takes time to sink in and this prevents potential burnout. I love this thing more after a few months of owning it and several OLA's later. ;)

Slow Envelope. Place a mod before the trigger of the sound source you want. (Ex. Place a slew in front of the bar thats lets say is triggering Horn. Then Drag bar by the handle and place into said slew. Then you could do the same with sauce or salsa. place in front of slew Then grab the Slew handle and place inn of Sauce or salsa.

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:12 pm

Just name an opcode you would really like some explanations of and I'll try to do a video

the modulators go inside the fish they are modulating
using the green oval will allow you to put something inside a fish after or before (depending on where you are hovering) the currently highlighted gut

for instance if you have a horn
((hornb) 72 48) now if you want to modulate the loudness of the horn it would go after the 48 like so

((hornb) 72 48 (bar)) the bar is inside the fish and after the deno

now bar A is controlling the volume of hornb
the bar has been put into the "mul" position
mul is built into just about every opcode (except the lizst ones I think {araab, togo...uhhhh})

if you want a button to act as a arbitrarily triggerable AR env then simply put a ((slew)(major) 2 3)
if you want to have a slow envelope use the sauce/slew/bar combo that is in that text file I posted
these things would simply replace where the "bar" is in my example above for control over the volume of any sound


nume is the rate of rise and fall while deno is the distance to rise and fall

this is my mantra I still don't full understand how it works with everything but every time I don't understand what either the nume or deno is doing I repeat it to myself

Hope this clears some things up I'll try to get a video as I know I learn better with visuals

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krz
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Post by krz » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:49 am

Wednesdayay if you have time and some patience for dealing with what seems to be a dyslexic, deaf or handicapped person- when it comes to Fish? I would really appreciate you verbally describing what happens while you build the sequencer situation (patch) with that balafon-type, or what I've heard others describe as a "gamelan" sort of timbre? Others have said it sounds like a thumb piano? The situation you uploaded to this thread (thanks) earlier- in both Schlisp and Fish- and then you kindly further described what you did (in English and Fish.)
Maybe some others too - would also appreciate help in some visual/oral explanation(s) of the more nebulous types of opcodes/modifiers - besides dense ol' me? Seems I can only get so far, so fast, when I'm referencing lingo translation sheets -whilst picking apart Fish guts, and simultaneously trying to follow the flow of the situation. I can get the gist of a situation's design in SYNTHESIS terminology, not too horribly, and I am just starting to get the different color schemes after ages of study/learning etc, comparing what's a fish egg/eyes, or figuring out what's a fish's mouth and/or tail, and then which way the equation/situation/sound path is actually travelling, being modified, but adding any more than one, or sometimes two - modifiers, and only if they're basic synthesis principles, I'm usually still hanging in there, but then pop in multiple numes/denos into that basic situation still within one tab (or whatever its called) and I'm lost. It all starts to resemble "quantum theory for teleportation" equations - at that stage... Picking apart the situation as pictured (and verbally explained previously by you) and I just can't follow the bouncing ball. I know it's the translating that gets me - every time.
I can do the same method as was described in the initial post of the thread, but I'm not getting to that Eureka! plateau of clarity, or understanding - after many many months of Shlisp/Fish. Add in a year of Schlisp then a few months of Fish, and then put that up against the way I've seen some new users pick up Fish and the way they are making advanced situations and even bouiliabase's after a week makes- me ill. I've tried the rote style of memorizing the terms, but once anything get into multiples opcades and modifiers -I'm sunk. Makes me think I made a mistake. Usually I'm pretty stubborn and tenacious about solving and finding a way but this just seems like a joke on me akin to the one about the difference between Halloween and Christmas dates in binary... that I'll never get to the punchline. I don't want to be in the remedial reading, summer school, fail Fish class the rest of my life. If something perspective-wise doesn't change I think I'm just going to need to give up in order to save my cortisol levels and blood pressure. But... in the bright side - I do have great fun learning to 'physically' play other's designs/interfacing once I know the triggers set up, but then add a couple 'to-go's in the situation and same thing - lost again. Sounds great but whats happen synthesis-wise? I may never know.

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:58 am

http://soundcloud.com/tigerhouserules/s ... r-begining


is this the sound you are talking about @krz?
I hope so as I can confidently say I can confidently say what this is


I don't mind helping out fellow fisherman as best I can

the thing that helps me is trying to keep it simple
once I start getting crazy with my patching I end up getting careless and adding functions without trying them. Then after about 10 minutes of patching "blindly" and uploading it doesn't work at all how I expect.

I felt discouraged for the first while of having the synth so I didn't mess around with it much. I still don't use it as much as I would like to honestly.

My problem is also that I still don't know just what I want to use it for.
with the sound I posted above my thought process was I wonder if I can ping those filters [wave] in the same way the plumbutter does (I will happily go into more video detail if this is the sound you are asking about)

When I know of the end goal the pat(c)hing doesn't seem so aimless :lol:

and while aimless patching can be fun after a certain amount of understanding is achieved it can get frustrating when you do something you like but don't know why it is doing that thing

I think most of the reason I haven't given up yet is I haven't really felt mentally challenged in this way other than when I was learning Max (still haven't really learned much about jitter or msp though)


all the people in the world playing those silly brain training games are really training their brains to become buckets which fill up of global pool of understanding from which we can pull the ability to fish.


this is my next pat(c)hing query
I wonder what happens if you have an srate at the beginning of a patch then another (with a different value) in the middle of the patch
these are the kind of Q's that can make fishing a fun A'ing machine

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Post by chorus7 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:16 am

krz You nailed it right on the head how I feel! and this one especially
"quantum theory for teleportation"
:hihi:

and wednesdayayay seriously thanks you so much for your patience with all of us in this, your really going above and beyond! Actually thanks to everyone in this thread for their help :hail:

I just pulled the trigger and sent my monies to Steve for the last Shnth out there... (this will be my third attempt at owning and understanding the Shnth)... But I borrowed a buddies Shnth and had it for the last few days and jelled with it 100% and its all because of this thread :loves:

So again thanks everyone and especially wednesdayayay :party:

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:45 am

I really appreciate all the appreciation
I still have a lot to grasp as I just don't use a good amount of the available opcodes because I haven't understood them yet
Guys let us not forget we still haven't even tried different cuisines yet.


these reflections help me both understand & refine my own process

I would be happy to spearhead a "basics" collection
I would just want some input as for what simple patches should be included in such a thing

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krz
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Post by krz » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:58 pm

Any 'splaining would be fantastic, wednesdayay! :) Even you -yourself - going over the opcodes that you haven't tried in a video after you've figured it out.
Anything added to the three Shnth videos
(and/or anything not covered by them.)
It's been awhile since number three?
And yes, that's the sound I was describing. I already have NAND type sounds so my situation is pitched lower than that one/ so it's more of a bong, dong, high gong than a ping, pling, pluck. There is alot that is not fully explained in the manual in layman's language and those three demo's... (don't get me wrong, they are very much appreciated but still there's alot to cover on the practical side for non-coders and people's whose first foray into CL is the Shnth, I'm guessing.
As I've noted before I may not be the sharpest but this so-called "it'll come clear to you" statement I've read ain't happening. And as I said before... if patches can be dreamed up, just in my mind, and later successfully programmed for a Nord Modular.... why is the Shnth programmimg not "clear"? No idea anymore. I've spent hundreds of hours trying to see through - to that next 'plateau' of clarity. At this point, I'm just playing it for textures and it's a one trick pony. Whaddyado?

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:06 pm

I should have some time Tuesday to really dig into a good video

I was fishing today on a real boat with a real reel

I couldn't help but think all along the ways to the next fishing spot

I could make these sounds with a shnth

The drum of the motor perhaps a composite of square waves based on and around srate

The swish and plops of the water perhaps being varying degrees of winded waves

The control over speed of the boat with an antenna rather than lever

The bassy hits felt un the spinal colum when hitting a wave

How fun would a fishing/motor patch be

Now that I think about it when you are slowed to a stop you should be able to cast/reel in

Then make a mechanic in which your cast will randomly trigger a caught fish which would just be a different sound

These fish could be kept or released which would trigger a wheel in opposite ways and this would have some larger control over the drunkenness of the patch

It all seems pretty well within the capabilities of the shnth

This seemed like a fun way to think about programming it once you get the translations

in "situations"

Mind blown

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krz
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Post by krz » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:33 pm

Rod and reel. Lucky!!!
Translating the sounds of the day to Shnth? I say go ask Ida... Ida knows. ;)

Thanks again for past & present- wednesdayay. TIA for whatever/whenever you can fill in re: gaps in understanding for "remedial" Shnth'ers. If it doesn't benefit you to offer your time and expertise...don't bother.
Signed...
trying to stay in 'positive traction' mode-still.

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Post by notb » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:13 am

kozepz wrote:
:party: :party: :party:
Thats an awesome patch! Love the delayish echoey effects :sb:
if you like delay, try playing with the [comb] filter in fish! it's surprisingly powerful. it can do a variety of things from delays to reverb to weird string echo things.

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Post by kozepz » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:26 am

notb wrote:
kozepz wrote:
:party: :party: :party:
Thats an awesome patch! Love the delayish echoey effects :sb:
if you like delay, try playing with the [comb] filter in fish! it's surprisingly powerful. it can do a variety of things from delays to reverb to weird string echo things.
:tu:

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kozepz
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Post by kozepz » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:23 am

shnth vs kozepz: 136-1 :trout:
I'm out, enjoying Ola icecream :hihi:

Love all the possibilities, but I found myself getting more and more frustrated...and I prefer making music instead of finding out the 'wrong code'.

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Post by krz » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:17 pm

:deadbanana: :despair: :bang: :omg: :zombie:
:guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness:
:guinness: :doh: :waah: :moneyburn: :emt: :hit:

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chorus7
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Post by chorus7 » Sun May 04, 2014 7:33 am

So I'm sort of getting my head around my Shnth (thanks for all the help fellas! :hail: )...

I have a question I've been wondering about...

How do you change bouillabaisse (patches) without being attached to a computer? Is it a code I need to put into my patches to do this?

Many thanks...

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Post by don h » Sun May 04, 2014 8:55 am

You can use jump or bend:
(jump (minor 1 )) - minor 1 incrementing by 1
(bend (corp 1 1 )) - corp advancing through sort of continuously. I think...
Bend is cool and weird and selects patches less distinctly, jump is nice as it steps through clearly.

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun May 04, 2014 10:44 am

don h wrote:You can use jump or bend:
(jump (minor 1 )) - minor 1 incrementing by 1
(bend (corp 1 1 )) - corp advancing through sort of continuously. I think...
Bend is cool and weird and selects patches less distinctly, jump is nice as it steps through clearly.
Yeah, my rules of thumb are to remember to mul by 1 with jump (or however many bouillabaises you want to jump) and that with bend it works best to use a squish (corp or bar) because its value will stay the same across sitches. Using randuplicate on whole bouillabaises and then bending through them at will can be really fun.
:hobbes:

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chorus7
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Post by chorus7 » Sun May 04, 2014 3:10 pm

You can use jump or bend:
(jump (minor 1 )) - minor 1 incrementing by 1
(bend (corp 1 1 )) - corp advancing through sort of continuously. I think...
Bend is cool and weird and selects patches less distinctly, jump is nice as it steps through clearly.

Thanks don h... One more question... Where do you place this in the patch? Does it go first thing before the rest so to effect all patches? Or does each patch have this code?

Many thanks....

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Post by VortexRanger » Sun May 04, 2014 3:29 pm

chorus7 wrote:
You can use jump or bend:
(jump (minor 1 )) - minor 1 incrementing by 1
(bend (corp 1 1 )) - corp advancing through sort of continuously. I think...
Bend is cool and weird and selects patches less distinctly, jump is nice as it steps through clearly.

Thanks don h... One more question... Where do you place this in the patch? Does it go first thing before the rest so to effect all patches? Or does each patch have this code?

Many thanks....
I keep it outside the dacs to avoid hearing any artifacts (usually do that with all non-audio stuff). Put it in every single sitch, or else you'll end up in one that you can't escape!
:hobbes:

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Post by rovadams » Sun May 04, 2014 4:03 pm

Thanks for getting into Bend, that's one I haven't understood at all. I tried it out, and it works but it seems to be keeping the situations separate - like Jump but controlled differently. I imagined it would be more of a morphing, but does it need to be ones with the same architecture and different values for that to happen?

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Post by chorus7 » Sun May 04, 2014 5:21 pm

Thanks VortexRanger ... I'm going to try it out now WOOT :party:

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Post by chorus7 » Sun May 04, 2014 5:49 pm

So this is the patch (a learning variation of wednesdayayay patch)...
but it doesn't seem to be working? I can't switch patches :hmm:
;C
{(jump (minor ));C
(srate (short 8 51 ))
(left
(right
(horn 48 48 (bar ))
(hornb 60 48 (barb ))
(hornc 72 48 (barc ))
(hornd 72 48 (bard ))
))
};C
{(jump (minor ));C
(srate (short 69 -14 ))
(left
(right
(horn -60 60 (bar ))
(hornb -19 -8 (barb ))
(hornc -48 -26 (barc ))
(hornd -81 -26 (bard ))
))
}

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wednesdayayay
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun May 04, 2014 6:16 pm

it looks like the only thing you forgot was to mul the minor
mul it to a 1 so that your are jumping 1 patch each time it is pressed

also remember if you are using randuplicate to double click on your " {(jump (major 1 )) "
or anything you DON'T want to be randomize upon duplication (the whole fish/opcode chunk will become a whitish version of whatever color it was before)

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