COCOQUANTUS 2 "GETTING STARTED MANUAL"

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batchas
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Post by batchas » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:59 pm

sungja wrote:32x16x5 cm.
Thanx a lot :tu:

Now I need to remember how much space left I said I had in my portable case, while checking its dimensions this morning.
15?
Tssss... Only 9 or 10 hours ago and I already forgot :doh:

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Post by Cowabunga-man » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:47 pm

Could someone explain the ”Gate/CV input Sample on/off”-function. Am I right in assuming they act as triggers for ”Sample On/Off”? I haven’t gotten any response whatsoever when inputting signals there.

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Post by cebec » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:19 am

Cowabunga-man wrote:Could someone explain the ”Gate/CV input Sample on/off”-function. Am I right in assuming they act as triggers for ”Sample On/Off”? I haven’t gotten any response whatsoever when inputting signals there.
You might need to switch them off, first.

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Post by Cowabunga-man » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:35 am

cebec wrote:
Cowabunga-man wrote:Could someone explain the ”Gate/CV input Sample on/off”-function. Am I right in assuming they act as triggers for ”Sample On/Off”? I haven’t gotten any response whatsoever when inputting signals there.
You might need to switch them off, first.
I'll consider that. Thanks

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Post by The Grump » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:17 pm

Had to join the fam. Should be arriving shortly.

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Post by The Grump » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:26 pm

Ermm... need to improve my reading skills.

So... quick question: there used to be a post that explained the lighting scheme of the quantussy. Would someone please be so kind as to reprint, or redirect me to post that explained it? Or maybe just correct me? I remember it being something to the effect of counting clockwise, no light-adjascent oscillator as mod, green 2 away, red 3 away, both 4 away? And blue either rectified or zeroed negative voltages in the castle? Do I have that correct?

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Post by paperwork » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:54 pm

Thanks so much for this guide. I just got a cocoquantus in the mail and dug into it last night, this was tremendously helpful.

Started off with just a shortwave radio & the coco. What an amazing, inspiring instrument. I was entranced for hours; eager to go back in tonight :]

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Post by jimmie » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:52 pm

The Grump wrote:Ermm... need to improve my reading skills.

So... quick question: there used to be a post that explained the lighting scheme of the quantussy. Would someone please be so kind as to reprint, or redirect me to post that explained it? Or maybe just correct me? I remember it being something to the effect of counting clockwise, no light-adjascent oscillator as mod, green 2 away, red 3 away, both 4 away? And blue either rectified or zeroed negative voltages in the castle? Do I have that correct?
I remember I read about those lights somewhere but I can't recall where... In reality it's not too practical to control the device with the combination in mind methinks but still would like to know how those works :lol:

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Post by Ras Thavas » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:09 pm

Best info I've found on the Quantussy from Richard Brewster and Bartlebooth-

Richard Brewster- The quantussy of five oscillators cross-modulate in a most interesting way. Each oscillator has a 'partner', one of the other four. The cercle jogs a counter that cycles through which of the other four is selected to be the partner. It also toggles another mode (that the blue LED indicates, more later). Each oscillator has a set of three LEDs in the lozenge that indicate the state of this counter.

Internally, each oscillator has two sample and holds that are triggered by the oscillator at its frequency rate. Into one of the S&H comes the triangle output of the 'partner'. The output of that S&H is the Castle out. Into the other S&H comes the Castle output of the 'partner'. The output of this second S&H stays inside to FM the oscillator itself. The depth of this FM is controlled by the Chaos pot.

The lozenge indicates which other oscillator is currently the partner of the oscillator associated with the LEDs (the red and green indicate the partner selection). Now the Blue LED indicates whether the two Sample and Holds are in sample/hold or track/hold mode. When the Blue LED is on they are track/hold, which means that for 1/2 of the cycle, the Castle output is tracking (i.e. passing through) the partner triangle. This is easier to observe at low frequencies. (A 'scope helps, too.)

We figured out on the 'combinatorial' thread that there exist 13 distinct possible interconnection combinations of the quantussy, if you consider the five oscillators as all equivalent. Of course they aren't, because each can be in one of three ranges.

Got all that? This is why I find it so ingenious. I figured it out by studying the schematic while doing experiments to see how it behaved. Now I understand it pretty well. But you don't need to understand this to use it well. I've concluded that it's design intentionally thwarts linear thinking and planning. It helps you to not plan, but to discover. P.B. is a genius.

I have one more point to stress. The quantussy is one thing, with five 'aspects'. It is not five separate oscillators. They share a common rate pot and chaos pot. If you do the 'FM mod' then you can individually modulate each oscillator, but what do you put into that? Probably one of the 10 outputs. So it's still all one complex entity. The incredible, interesting, and unpredictable behaviors are exactly due to the way it self-modulates.

It doesn't switch partners by itself. Partner switching only happens with inputs to the cercle, i.e. when the LEDs change. That is externally controlled. Of course if you patch a triangle output to the cercle of its own oscillator, then it will use a different partner each cycle.

In track/hold mode, it means that for 1/2 cycle of the oscillator the castle output is the partner's triangle. The second half of the cycle, it holds at the voltage the partner's triangle was at. Slew for a half cycle, then hold. Contrast with sample/hold mode, where each 1/2 cycle the castle output acquires the instantaneous level of the partner's triangle. Plain old S&H. Note that the partner is sampled twice during each full cycle of the oscillator. Took me a while to get that, but it's clear from the schematic.


Bartlebooth- no led = the osc one position CCW is being sampled at the rhythm of this one
yellow led = the osc two positions CCW is begin sampled at the rhythm of this one
red led = the osc three positions CCW i being sampled at the rhythms of this one
both red & yellow =the osc four positions CCW is being sampled at the rhythm of this one
is this what you have determined too? oh and blue led means the whole waveform is used rather than impulse S&H

now what makes it tricky (but also ingenius) of course is that the 'other' osc that is being sampled by this one is itself always sampling another osc to determine its behavior depending on IT'S led state..and so on with that other osc which is why you always get these crazy chaotic behaviors in the modulations. the chaos knobs acts as a kind of attenuator on these intermodulations, left is full and right is none.

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Post by batchas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:20 am

@The Grump: reading skills = no worries :)
I did not find much infos about the LEDS either.
And when I was searching after you asked, I found an interview mentionning the info might have been lost when the attack against muffs occured a while back.

And the interview in question has also a pretty good description of the beast by Wednesdayayay, which IMHO deserves to be mentionned in it's integrality this thread too (thanx btw to Arnoux for making this thread!):
the best easy way to describe the cocoquantus is a twin delay/looper that allows for dramatic sound transformations but that doesn't really catch everything

ok it is best to look at the new cocoquantus (I assume your getting a new one potentially rather than a second hand one which could be slightly different than what I am describing) is in 5 sections

When I say coco that is referring to just one of the delay lines (there are two mono delay lines that come together at the output to be stereo)

top side of instrument

1 far left is the then XLR&piezo outputs (and XLR input)

2 next to 1 the cocos themselves (there are two that are identical flanking the middle section)

3 the quantussy is in the middle surrounding a LED information center

side facing of instrument

FRONT

4 three 1/8 inputs (far L is piezo input) the two that are just beside each other are stereo and both send there L and R channels to the L & R cocos)

BACK

5 1/8 output

1 the XLR/piezo section

you can plug an XLR mic in here and its signal comes out at proper levels to its white audio output jack (mics can also be used with the appropriate adapters in the other two 1/8 inputs if need be)

the input on the facing of the instrument (1/8) is for a piezo disk and again its audio comes out on the white banana jack above the input.

both of these inputs have dedicated volume controls

2 the coco itself

is a delay line that can get very long I think with maximum delay times it is around a minute but this sounds really digital and crunchy at that extreme things sounds normal at regular delay times (remember this is an 8-bit delay line). Audio can come from the 1/8 inputs of the face of the instrument (beside each other) or into the green banana jack at the base of each coco. Audio that come in through the green banana jack seems to be louder than the 1/8 jacks.

flanking that green audio input jack are 4 blue jacks think of these as VCA's with different responses. In all the ciat-lonbarde instruments rather than voltages like (-10v - 10v peak 2 peak) as is seen in most synths Peter uses somewhere around 4.5v as his central point around which voltage swing so a triangle wave would start at 4.5 and go up to 9 then back down to just about 0 then back up to 4.5. The blue verso input (the blue ones I was just talking about) accepts a triangle (or any other) signal and sweeps the loudness of the input into the coco up and down but if you use the inverso input (verso on L inverso on R) it does the opposite sweeping with the same input (starts at 4.5 then would go down to around 0 then up to 9 coming back down to 4.5). The inputs can be used at the same time and again are essentially just VCA inputs but allow for different responses there is a pair for the input into the coco as well as the the feedback/loop level. The input and delay line also have there own volume control knobs.

between the volume knobs are two switches which are more interesting in practice than on paper. They are dolby type preamps which accentuate certain frequencies and also cut out below a certain level this is the UP position . The MIDDLE position is regular inputs nothing added nor taken away this is the MIDDLE the DOWN position allows for punching in silence or cutting out sounds

now if your input switch is UP and the feedback/loop switch is down then when you play something you will always hear the input when being played but when it is below its threshold the feedback automatically turns up there is a volume envelope that gets used from the UP positions audio to drive the punching in and out of the DOWN positions audio. It also allows for some interesting ways to chop up loops as your can punch in bits of silence and add new inputs at the same time I hope that makes some sense. This is still the function I seek to use more as I haven't done much with it yet but it sounds great

Next is the speed (marked by an S) which has a knob who sets the delay time and a purple input jack which is the CV input for the delay/loop time. The knob with the A over it can be thought of as an bipolar attenuator for the CV input

the Yellow banana jack (output) is strange and almost organy sounding but essentially keeps track of where you are within the length of the delay line and can be used as a voice on its own or to modulate something else. this output gets very interesting when the flip/skip inputs are used as it isn't a linear progression through the delay line at that point.

next are three banana jacks on top

L is the FLIP input input CV and it will change the direction of playback this can be done momentarily or at very very high speeds for granular applications

Middle grey banana is the feedback/loop ONLY audio output from that coco so you could take that audio and process it in some other way then send it back into its own input or send it to the input of the other coco and do the same for the other and try not to make things blow up by using the verso/inverso inputs

R is the SKIP input similar to the FLIP input but this one with a CV input sets a destination (in delay line) to return to then returns to it after triggering the internal threshold. So you can again get audio rate granular type stuff here or simple repeats and everything inbetween

3 the quantussy nest

this is the middle section there are three parts

all five "petals" are the same these are five triangle oscillators with three ranges (available through each switch)

MIDDLE position is high audio rate this can get very piercing to fairly low audio

DOWN (away from the center LED lozenge) is low audio this one is great for modulating the flip and skip or for and FM/AM duties

UP is low and slow CV range this one can be great for just about anything

each petal has 4 banana jacks

blue is the FM input

Green switches the internal connects for this oscillator (as indicated by the LEDS)

Grey (castle) outputs a special CV that is a result of modulating one osc with another which is being modulated by another and so on this one is great for the verso inputs of for the cocos speed (delay time) inputs as it can get rather steppy

Orange triangle output is a bit more normal unless you are using the chaos knob then it can also get very bizarre the chaos can be anything from a light pitch bend to autonomous it essentially just makes all the oscs modulate each other depending on how they are interconnected (these connections are changed with the green banana jack every pulse received scrolls through one of 15 or 13 positions I forget but even 13 positions time 5 petals means a lot of variation)

they surround the central LED indicator which tells of the internal connections (this one was figured out but unfortunately that info was lost with the recent muffs attack I think..although I may have it written down somewhere).

then on the bottom of this middle section is a knob/green banana/button

the knob on the L is for the speed of all the oscillators

the knob on the R is for the chaos intermodulation level

the green banana jack is the input for the button it sits next to and will control it by way of CV

the button flips toggles between delay/loop

when you switch to loop from delay whatever is circulating within the cocos delay line will now loop continuously and when you switch back to delay it acts the same as it did before

4&5

the inputs again go to the L&R coco channels and the

output takes both cocos and combines them into a stereo 1/8 jack

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Post by batchas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:30 am

Ras Thavas wrote:no led = the osc one position CCW is being sampled at the rhythm of this one
yellow led = the osc two positions CCW is begin sampled at the rhythm of this one
red led = the osc three positions CCW i being sampled at the rhythms of this one
both red & yellow =the osc four positions CCW is being sampled at the rhythm of this one
is this what you have determined too? oh and blue led means the whole waveform is used rather than impulse S&H
I did not realize at all that sampling was occuring here, I thought it was cross-modulation between the OSC/LFOS. It shows that 1 hour with the beast is way not enough to know all its secrets!
So this thread here was a very good initiative :tu:

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Post by The Grump » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:52 pm

Thank you both for that wealth of information!

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Post by The Grump » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm

Patch notes to get the job done:
OP-1 to "Piezo" Audio In
White Audio Out to SKIP
Orange Env Follower to Flip
The "click" is audible on purpose so you can get an idea: it must be "loud and tight", I used a rim-shot amplified at +24, pitched +33 to shorten it, I've also succesfuly used a similar sample from my RYTM, a fellow wiggler make it works with a TR606.
If you put your clock from the PIEZO IN and your instrument into the front STEREO IN you should be able to loop real time on the beat, never tried this out tho.


Does it matter what goes into the flip and skip points, as long as it's a pulse?
Do I read correctly that by sending a pulse to flip and skip at the same time, it essentially starts the buffer replaying from the point where the audio was inserted into it initially? Essentially manually setting a tap in a delay line?

[/quote]

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Post by Ras Thavas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:36 pm

I wondering if Skip is like the clock in on the old Digitech delays, setting a delay time without any pitch shifting or interpolation, by resetting the buffer?

I need to get my Ciat interfaced properly w/ my eurorack to check this, but my guess is it's the clock frequency that does the work, and the flip input isn't necessary, tho' it might be fun...

The Grump wrote:
Patch notes to get the job done:
OP-1 to "Piezo" Audio In
White Audio Out to SKIP
Orange Env Follower to Flip
The "click" is audible on purpose so you can get an idea: it must be "loud and tight", I used a rim-shot amplified at +24, pitched +33 to shorten it, I've also succesfuly used a similar sample from my RYTM, a fellow wiggler make it works with a TR606.
If you put your clock from the PIEZO IN and your instrument into the front STEREO IN you should be able to loop real time on the beat, never tried this out tho.


Does it matter what goes into the flip and skip points, as long as it's a pulse?
Do I read correctly that by sending a pulse to flip and skip at the same time, it essentially starts the buffer replaying from the point where the audio was inserted into it initially? Essentially manually setting a tap in a delay line?
[/quote]

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Post by arnoux » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:00 am

The Grump wrote:
Patch notes to get the job done:
OP-1 to "Piezo" Audio In
White Audio Out to SKIP
Orange Env Follower to Flip
The "click" is audible on purpose so you can get an idea: it must be "loud and tight", I used a rim-shot amplified at +24, pitched +33 to shorten it, I've also succesfuly used a similar sample from my RYTM, a fellow wiggler make it works with a TR606.
If you put your clock from the PIEZO IN and your instrument into the front STEREO IN you should be able to loop real time on the beat, never tried this out tho.


Does it matter what goes into the flip and skip points, as long as it's a pulse?
Do I read correctly that by sending a pulse to flip and skip at the same time, it essentially starts the buffer replaying from the point where the audio was inserted into it initially? Essentially manually setting a tap in a delay line?
[/quote]


Sorry for the super late reply,

what goes into the skip matters a lot, the idea of syncing the loop came from this description I found in the CocoQuantus Hand Manual:

"Skip meant mark a place/step back to it"

Scratching my head around this sentence and discussing the argument here I understood (and I hope I'm correct) the rising edge of a square wave set a mark and the decreasing edge let the "play head" skip back where the marker was placed.

That's why I started experimenting with super short pulses, so to have the 2 edges being as close as possible, in fact having a loop playing for a long time result on the loop going slowly out of sync, drifting.

On the patch description above the Env Follower going to Flip is misleading, it's useless for the purpose of syncing the loop, I will correct the notes asap.
Last edited by arnoux on Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by arnoux » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:05 am

Double post.

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Post by The Grump » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:16 pm

arnoux wrote: Does it matter what goes into the flip and skip points, as long as it's a pulse?
Do I read correctly that by sending a pulse to flip and skip at the same time, it essentially starts the buffer replaying from the point where the audio was inserted into it initially? Essentially manually setting a tap in a delay line?
[/quote]
Scratching my head around this sentence and discussing the argument here I understood (and I hope I'm correct) the rising edge of a square wave set a mark and the decreasing edge let the "play head" skip back where the marker was placed.

That's why I started experimenting with super short pulses, so to have the 2 edges being as close as possible, in fact having a loop playing for a long time result on the loop going slowly out of sync, drifting.

On the patch description above the Env Follower going to Flip is misleading, it's useless for the purpose of syncing the loop, I will correct the notes asap.[/quote]

So, the skip functions with a gate? Leading edge sets place, falling edge triggers jump back to place. The envelope follower has got to drive this thing bugshit! I'm going to have to try this armed with this new knowledge. I'm guessing a super short inverted gate might also be capable of something useful.

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Post by Fullplate » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:06 am

Some questions for the coco heads out there (figured this was as good a thread as any)...

1. Is mixing 2+ signals via stacking 2 or more inputs to an output ok?

2. Does the Coco have anything to watch out for in terms of patching ie patching ins to ins and outs to outs is all fair game?

3. What's this 'squishing' I hear, is it using your fingers on an unpatched banana as input voltage?

4. What's the shortest delay time on people's Coco's? I was expecting something <100ms but mine is around 500ms with spd fully CW. Any tricks I'm missing?

Thanks all! :nana:

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Post by corpusjonsey » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:12 am

1. Is mixing 2+ signals via stacking 2 or more inputs to an output ok?

Yes. In fact that's what it's all about!

2. Does the Coco have anything to watch out for in terms of patching ie patching ins to ins and outs to outs is all fair game?

You can patch anything to anything within the coco.

3. What's this 'squishing' I hear, is it using your fingers on an unpatched banana as input voltage?

You can bridge connections with your flesh using bare metal banana plugs plugged into coco's jacks. The original ciat-lonbarde instruments had brass posts/screws instead of jacks just for touching.

4. What's the shortest delay time on people's Coco's? I was expecting something <100ms but mine is around 500ms with spd fully CW. Any tricks I'm missing?

I have never measured but you might be able to get more by patching to SP.AF.

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Post by Fullplate » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:04 pm

Thanks corpusjonsey!! Good info. I shall continue patching willy nilly, loving the relative freedom compared to eurorack/minijacks.

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Post by The Grump » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:36 am

The shortest delay time will probably be found by connecting the pulse out of one Coco to the skip of the other Coco, if I had to venture a guess.

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Post by strutter » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:59 pm

After having the pb2 for less than week I spotted a secondhand cq2 and grabbed it. After couple of days of patching I´m in love with this machine. Thank you all for sharing the knowledge!!!

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Post by Kazremark » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:39 pm

I have a decent understanding of how to use the bottom half of the coco as well as the quantussy, but there remain some functions in the top half of the coco that I don't fully understand. What does the yellow square output on each coco do? Also, does flip invert the direction the buffer plays back while skip jumps around in the buffer?

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Post by Kazremark » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:28 pm

I also don't understand the routine for syncing the Coco to an incoming click. I have a clock signal coming from my modular (quarter notes) and have that plugged into "skip". I clock divide that by 2 (whole notes) and plug into "flip". Should that be syncing the delay length to a bar?

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Post by corpusjonsey » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:15 pm

I believe that not being able to easily sync or dictate a "bar" is the beauty of the thing. Embrace natural, random, chaotic, organic! Save the precision for other instruments that live in that world.

My dad always said "If you don't like it, change it. If you can't change it, change the way you think about it!" I always hated that saying.

You can get great results that will probably not sound like anything you've ever done if you let go of some control.

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