is the rolzer worth it?

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odditymedium
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is the rolzer worth it?

Post by odditymedium » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:56 pm

those of you who have the rolzer, is it worth it?

despite my deep appreciation of peter's thinking behind the rolzer, which later led to the tocante scale, i wonder if it is worth the money?

i'm asking cos i'm thinking of getting one...

k_bntzn
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Post by k_bntzn » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:40 pm

Have no experience with the rolzer but i believe it was meant to sound more like the rollz5 paper circuit. Why not start with building some of these and go from there?

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Post by odditymedium » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am

as i have a plumbutter, it has some rollz as is: two 3-rollz and two 4-rollz.

i'm interested in hearing from rolzer owners whether such an expensive piece of gear that makes no sounds by itself (i mean, not really), is worth the investment

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Post by knows » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 am

You cannot voltage control the rollz as on the plumbutter. You can make more complex rhythms and control voltages and audio (to filter) and more of them, sharing browns or not.
You can set up unrelated clusters of connected browns and send to the plumbutter for weird drum patterns. Great to patch through the ultasound filters (brown). You can use it to control sequences and trigger other timing events (orange). I kind of think of it as big clock source that when you speed it up or interfere the browns, produces control and audio patterns.
I am sure some others have different ideas and ways they use it.

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Post by odditymedium » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:11 pm

thanks knows. do you recommend buying one? would you buy one again?

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Post by knows » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:23 pm

I still have one as part of my duosk. It is pretty awesome when I get a bunch of the browns interconnected and send it’s signals as audio and cv into both sets of the plumbutters ultrasounds. It does weird things with the man with red steam as well.
Would I buy it again? I don’t know.
If someone wanted to make the plumbutter into a more poly rhythmic *edit weird* drum machine, it would be great! I would give up any of the ciat lonbarde instruments for the Hordijk system.

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Post by jimmie » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:54 am

you can get more messy by interconnecting PB's roll to rolzer :nana:

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Post by ClausF » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:50 am

odditymedium wrote:thanks knows. do you recommend buying one? would you buy one again?
As an addition to Plumbutter yes (if you have the Coco).
And as an own instrument, for some strange electronic noises, you have to build some attenuators for that. Just check the Rollz-5 PDF to get an idea how to connect the rolls. Works pretty well...
Like sungja I also recommend to build a few of the rolls from this document and experiment. Rolls are the simplest circuits there and you can have a lot of fun alone with them. Also experiment with different or switchable caps (in one roll)... I have this still nailed on a piece of wood, waiting for housing, but after a while experimenting and playing with the plumbutter patch on Shbobo I got lost and bought a Plumbutter, Coco, Rollzer and more... :bananaguitar:

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rmro
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Post by rmro » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:48 pm

Not being a DIY expert. Could you buy a Rollz5 Meng Qi pcb and just solder the Rollz without the AV Dog, Gong & Ultrasound? Wonder if it would work to get some extra Rollz for the PB?

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Post by corpusjonsey » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 pm

rmro wrote:Not being a DIY expert. Could you buy a Rollz5 Meng Qi pcb and just solder the Rollz without the AV Dog, Gong & Ultrasound? Wonder if it would work to get some extra Rollz for the PB?
This will definitely work.

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Post by jimmie » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 am

rmro wrote:Not being a DIY expert. Could you buy a Rollz5 Meng Qi pcb and just solder the Rollz without the AV Dog, Gong & Ultrasound? Wonder if it would work to get some extra Rollz for the PB?
JFY I'm still drifting to sell or unsell my Rollz5 :hihi:

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Post by k_bntzn » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:25 am

When i think more about it building the rollz section in seven different values on paper is something worth trying out some day. It could be a cheap alternative for the rolzer.

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Post by odditymedium » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:13 am

i know pugix has listed the 2-roll here: http://pugix.com/synth/rollz-5-schematics/

any where else i can find 3, 4, 5, 6, 7-roll schematics?

or am i totally wrong, and there only 2,3,4 -rollz?

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Post by ClausF » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:23 am

In the Rollzer and Rollz-5 there are 3,4,5 & 6 rolls. There is no schematics, but you can extract it from the paper circuit, there are only around 5 parts/section.

Paper circuits and description is here: http://ciat-lonbarde.net/rollz5/

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Post by corpusjonsey » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:57 pm

odditymedium wrote:i know pugix has listed the 2-roll here: http://pugix.com/synth/rollz-5-schematics/

any where else i can find 3, 4, 5, 6, 7-roll schematics?

or am i totally wrong, and there only 2,3,4 -rollz?

If you want a 7, 8, 9... roll just add more stages to any of the paper circuits rollz.

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SPIKE the Percussionist
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Post by SPIKE the Percussionist » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:54 pm

if you get a Rollz-5 you can get the rhythmic permutations from it AND it also makes noiz.

I use two Rollz-5s with my PB2 and COCO.

Things get really evil weird.
:party:
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more noiz!

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Post by The Grump » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:56 pm

I don't have a plumbutter yet, but if I did, you can bet your ass, I'd want a Rolzer! Hell yeah, those things get NUTS! I mean that's really the device that unlocks the Plumbutter as a rhythmic tool. On its own, the PB2 is cool, but with the rolzer, that thing is a fucking monster. Seriously, if you have to ask, you already know the answer is an emphatic "FUCK YES, I NEED THIS!!". So get on it!

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Post by GhostlyMostly » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:14 am

I can only support the complexity the Rolzer adds makes the plumbutter world awfully boring on its own anymore. I have trouble getting along with the plumbutter without the Rolzer...Kinda like when my best friend goes away and that void there is apparent. The plumbutter comes alive, I mean, as alive as wood, metal and electric can ever become when you add the Rolzer...but the cv options are what really opens the interactions with other ciat gear. All of those browns to send and get squishy. I would come home from work and put on my plumbutter/coco/Rolzer/sidrax tape and delay setup and unwind from the day and it keeps my mind busy while I center on reading and building, art and other focuses. The Rolzer is expansive and I would say to build some paper circuits and when you have the cash, get a Rolzer...
don’t sleep on the Rolzer, it like a key to portal access gates. Get a Lowgain, banana to 3.5 format jumbler and maybe incorporate that with your other cv/euro etc gear? All of those pulses and clocks and cv is just begging to be patched out and bring all kinds of drama to your plumbutter and control voltage events. :rastanana: :rastanana:
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ClausF
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Post by ClausF » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:17 am

GhostlyMostly wrote:The Rolzer is expansive and I would say to build some paper circuits and when you have the cash, get a Rolzer...
Exactly. For the Rollzer you have to build only the rolls, capacitor values of the rollzer are documented in The Rollzer documentation. And the rolls are pretty easy to build.

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Post by fantasticdan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Can someone with a Rolzer help me troubleshoot something? I just got one and I noticed there's something unusual about the 5 rollz across all the vertical modules and I can't tell if it's by design or not.

I put a scope on various jacks, brown and orange, and get expected clocks and LFOs with various timings, however on all the 5s the orange jacks do nothing and I get < 1V noise on the browns. Whenever I cross connect a jack from a 5 to anything else it causes it to freeze as well. None of the other jacks do this.

Here's a video that shows what I'm talking about

Can someone check and see if the same happens to them? If I had to guess, it's like there's either a ground that isn't connected or the polarity of a cap or diode is backwards.

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Post by andreasphh » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:18 pm

fantasticdan wrote: ...
Whenever I cross connect a jack from a 5 to anything else it causes it to freeze as well. None of the other jacks do this.
...
Hm, this part is strange, no idea sorry...

Otherwise, my rolzer behaves in the same way. Pulse spikes from even rollz, high frequency something from odd rolls if not patched to other nodes. 3 rolls look different from 5 rolls, sometimes more like even rolls, sometimes not, depending on what was patched before ;)

I always thought this is the expected behavior according to this:

http://ciat-lonbarde.net/rollz5/

„Odd rolls exhibit a “paradox spiral”; in attempting to resolve their states, they transcend periodicity and go into a sort of high-frequency chaotic trance. The combination of even and odd lead to rich experiments in pulse and periodic fuzz-burst.“

Cheers :guinness:

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Post by jimmie » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 am

andreasphh wrote:
fantasticdan wrote: ...
Whenever I cross connect a jack from a 5 to anything else it causes it to freeze as well. None of the other jacks do this.
...
Hm, this part is strange, no idea sorry...

Otherwise, my rolzer behaves in the same way. Pulse spikes from even rollz, high frequency something from odd rolls if not patched to other nodes. 3 rolls look different from 5 rolls, sometimes more like even rolls, sometimes not, depending on what was patched before ;)

Cheers :guinness:
My experience with the rolzer is pretty much the same.

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Post by PLNB » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:31 pm

Rolzer I need you, my Rollz-5 just went up in smoke.. :deadbanana:

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Post by ClausF » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:39 pm

what did you do?

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Post by PLNB » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:54 pm

ClausF wrote:what did you do?
. Wrong power supply 12v cooked one of the bottom row chips, and browned up the solder at the power socket. Hopefully fixable, but I'll need to send it to a tech to troubleshoot.

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