Rollz-5+ Kit from Meng Qi (2014 Revision 3)

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zilaihong
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Rollz-5+ Kit from Meng Qi (2014 Revision 3)

Post by zilaihong » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:02 am

Image

http://soundcloud.com/mengqimusic/meng-qi-roolz-5-first

-----

SOLD OUT

-----

Improvements :
vactrol controlled power starve (video demo :
on board ground connector
slightly smaller footprint
ImAU PCB
trimmers for gongue pitch, so you can adjust them to taste


Cut to fix an issue:
Image

edit : on 2016-04-23, partial kit is discontinued, PCB is still offered.

The power requirement is : 9v center positive PSU

Case Assembling Guide : M3*11+6 hex copper standoffs between faceplate and pcb. Then M3*20 hex copper standoffs between the back of the PCB and the bottom of the case.

[BOM] Rollz-5+ PCB by MengQiMusic
----------------------------------

ICs/Semi's:

8 x [511-TL082CN] (082) (inlcuded in this kit)
8 x [511-TL084CN] (084) (inlcuded in this kit)
2 x [511-4013] (4013) (inlcuded in this kit)
2 x [511-4066] (4066) (inlcuded in this kit)
4 x [18-1N914] diode
1 x 1N4007 diode
24 x PNP transistor [512-BC557B] (557)
60 x NPN transistor [512-BC547B] (547)

----------------------------------
Capacitors:

1 x 10uF electrolytic
30 x 1uF electrolytic
24 x .01uF (103)
16 x .001uF (102)
3 x .1uF (104)

----------------------------------
Resistors:

4 x 220
1 x 1k
4 x 4.7k
32 x 10k
4 x 15k
88 x 22k (includes the 4 needed for Ultrasound fix)
4 x 47k
44 x 100k
28 x 220k
36 x 470k
4 x 1m
4 x 2.2m

----------------------------------
Hardware/misc:

1 x vactrol
16 x 10k pots (inlcuded in this kit)
1 x 1k pot (inlcuded in this kit)
4 x 1m pots (inlcuded in this kit)
8 x 2m 3296W trimpots
1 x 9v - 15v power supply (circuit spec'd for 9v, but different folks have had different results)
banana jacks (inlcuded in this kit)
IC sockets (inlcuded in this kit)
standoffs
mounting hardware

----------------------------------
Variable Parts:

resistors...
8 "x" 2m2 - 22k (avdog undulation speed - 2m2 is extra slow, 22k is fast)

"Hairy" capacitors
4x 10uf - 100uf electrolytic (avdog undulation sensitivity - 10uf is "sensitive", 100uf is "extra sensitive")
4x 47uf - .1uf ("rhythm slow to fast")
36x rolls caps (Peter B says .1uf and up. Although it looks like folks are using stuff between .01uf-ish and 100uf-ish, but mostly in the .1uf to 47uf range)
----------------------------------


Thank you Peter for this awesome sounding design!

Moderators: I don't know if this post should be in S/T but I think this is only for the people in CL sub forum. If I need to post this info there please inform me I'll edit my post.
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Last edited by zilaihong on Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:33 am, edited 47 times in total.
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numan7
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Post by numan7 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:32 am

:love: it - and honor to both you and peterb, zilaihong! :hail:

i personally have yet to acquire any CL instruments (still need to finish a few things elsewhere in my system, mainly wiard 300-related before i think i will be ready to walk this interesting path).

but i've been really, really impressed with the sheer visual beauty and intelligently chosen layout of your acrylic *recombination* of the sid and the tet!! i think the sum of what you have produced there exceeds the individual terms, which themselves are already great in terms of musical interest to begin with. and i absolutely must have one of these, some day, as my primary personal perfomance organus! :nana:

have you thought about designing an acrylic coco-baby at some point, btw?! :woah:

cheers
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Post by Pascal » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:00 am

zilaihong: more info and updates on this build

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Post by zilaihong » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:50 am

numan7

Thank you very much for the nice words!

That instrument is very lovely and it will be an one-off instrument (tetrazzi is discontinued). I am currently selling it for $1300 because I plan to buy more from peter!

$1300 is really a bargain price.

I don't find any circuit for coco stuff on ciat-lonbarde website, maybe peter doesn't want to disclose them or it is my bad web search skill?

-----

Pascal

I'll check the pcb design, and tomorow the files will go to factory. After a few days I'll get the boards and build them.

I design this basically because I want a compact and flexible CL drum box to make my CL album with, and these can also be patched into other CL instruments to form a super nabra modular.

Ultrasound filters sounds awesome, and in my design users can also patch the roolz directly into output. (sounds awesome, I know it thanks to a demo by a member "repeater" here)
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Post by dan_p » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:26 am

Realy interesting, a great idea. I will follow progress.

I presume the intention would be to offer builds for sale?
Oh you got a Nickel, I got a Dime,
I'd like to get to know you but I haven't got the time,
You got to walk like a mannequin, roll like a tyre,
Act on reaction dodge the big spud fryer
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Post by fluxmonkey » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:26 am

so it looks like there are 18 roolz "cells", that could be patched in different combinations of 3/4/5/6... like two 4s and two 5s, or three 6s... is that right? i was trying to work out something like that and my first attempt failed.

at any rate, i'm interested as always. what about the gong/avdog?

thanks for continuing this series!

b
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Post by zilaihong » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:06 am

dan_p

pcb is 20$ each.
I'll have the price for the built ones later.

fluxmonkey

No they are fixed 3/4/5/6 roolz. In theory it is possible to use re-configurable "cells". It will be an easy mod if you want that. Just cut several traces on pcb and solder some jump wires.

No gong/avdog on this one, it is ultrasonic purist my friend! :party:
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Post by pugix » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:02 am

I'd be interested in this PCB. In fact, any of your PCBs. Are they listed for sale somewhere?
Richard
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"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

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Post by zilaihong » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:58 am

pugix wrote:I'd be interested in this PCB. In fact, any of your PCBs. Are they listed for sale somewhere?
Thank you for the interests. Please see the other thread for some info.
viewtopic.php?p=1048156#1048156
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Post by zilaihong » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:55 pm

It is snowing today in beijing.
I got up early and couldn't sleep.
I couldn't resist but -
...
..
.
Designing the pcb for gongz! :party:
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Post by zilaihong » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:14 am

It's amazing how fast things progress... 8_)
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Post by dan_p » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:43 am

^ com'on spell it out for the circuit illiterate amongst us.

Rollz at the top?
4 x ???????????
2 pairs ultrasound?
2 x gongue?

You certainly don't hang about zilaihong :tu:
Oh you got a Nickel, I got a Dime,
I'd like to get to know you but I haven't got the time,
You got to walk like a mannequin, roll like a tyre,
Act on reaction dodge the big spud fryer
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Post by zilaihong » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:58 am

That's 4 x AVdog!

And each ultrasound / gongue block contains 2 set of circuits so in total:

8 roolz in total (3/4/5/6 two of each)
4 x AV dog
4 x ultrasound
4 x gongue

So this is a full roolz-5!!!!!

Use it to make solo analogue tracks / make backing tracks for singing or jamming along on the organus / expand your nabra modular.

Compact and all self contained, with banana jacks / neutrik audio jacks on the pcb.

Worked on this pcb for a whole day long, but I am excited!
I hope everything turns out to be fine.
Now I'll have a drink to celebrate.

:guinness:

As always, honor to peter b! :hail:
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Post by fluxmonkey » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:10 am

hope it keeps snowing in beijing :hihi: thanks, MQ!
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Post by themanthatwasused » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:34 am

Great job zilaihong
Is there a Ciat Lonbarde for dummies?
I want to understand the terms a bit more, hopefully in plain english :help:
+roolz
+ AV dog
+ultrasound
+gongue

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Post by dan_p » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:38 am

:omg: :guinness:
Oh you got a Nickel, I got a Dime,
I'd like to get to know you but I haven't got the time,
You got to walk like a mannequin, roll like a tyre,
Act on reaction dodge the big spud fryer
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Post by zilaihong » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:08 am

fluxmonkey

My pleasure! ;)
I love snow in beijing. Snowing outside, hotpot + drinks in the house = :party:

themanthatwasused

Best place to learn ciat-lonbarde stuff is peter's website, for example, to learn what those stuffs are, check out:
http://ciat-lonbarde.net/rollz5/index.html

dan_p

:banana: :guinness: :party:
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:40 am

this looks awesome! perfect to set next to the PB :)

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Post by pugix » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:05 am

themanthatwasused wrote:Great job zilaihong
Is there a Ciat Lonbarde for dummies?
I want to understand the terms a bit more, hopefully in plain english :help:
+roolz
+ AV dog
+ultrasound
+gongue
The plumbutter 'manual' explains a lot of these terms.

http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/plumbutter/index.html

If you scroll to the very bottom, download SCHEMATICS PAPERS, you also get schematic diagrams and more explanation. I've spent many enjoyable hours pondering Peter B. documents. I print them all and sit drinking coffee while studying them. 8_)
Richard
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"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

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Post by themanthatwasused » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:17 am

pugix wrote:I've spent many enjoyable hours pondering Peter B. documents. I print them all and sit drinking coffee while studying them. 8_)
^^^
This is what I am gonna do, great advice.
:guinness:

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Post by Repeater » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:45 pm

Nice work, zilaihong! I like the look of your PCBs. Which program do you use to make them?

My only suggestion would be to make all of the filter modules (AVDog, Gong, Ultrasound filter) outputs patchable, not hardwired to the outputs, because the ultrasound filters tend to make sound even when nothing is patched into their inputs. This also makes it possible to add mixers and process other Rollz modules with the ultrasound filters or cascade the filters, which can often produce great results.

I would definitely pay $20 for a full Rollz-5 PCB especially if all the filter modules weren't hardwired to the outputs, though I guess cutting traces is an option. Maybe jumpers are a good idea?

Also, the Rollz-5 write-up on Peter's site is good, but there's a slightly different version in the Leonardo Music Journal that explains some of the controls in more detail. I can't dig it up at the moment, but if you can find it I highly recommend reading it. In particular, the pots for the gongs are explained better there than on the CL site.
Last edited by Repeater on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by bartlebooth » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:50 pm

pugix wrote: I've spent many enjoyable hours pondering Peter B. documents. I print them all and sit drinking coffee while studying them. 8_)
richard, if you're up for a real challenge or just need more fodder for coffeetime please ponder the fyrall and fourses documents and explain how the hell they work! well i pretty much get the fourses but no clue with the fyrall..

schematics are in the 'philosophical paperz': http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/fyrall/index.html

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Post by pugix » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:25 pm

Yes, many cups of coffee while perusing fourses and fryall.

I went back to studying fryall just recently. The oscillator design is very interesting. In section Z six oscillators connect in a loop, such that each modifies the frequency of the next, each going through a VCA that controls the depth of the FM. (The same theme is found in Cocoquantus.) The tricky part is the CV for each of those six VCAs. C Section (COUNTEN) is driven by the VCOs and produces six staircase waves. Section O (the ORRANGER) takes in the six VCO outputs plus the six staircase waves and selects from these to go back to control the VCAs. Section P is just a couple more VCOs to produce outputs for touch nodes.

But there's more. An external input can go into the Spesal Cuck. This would affect all the oscillators. There's also a speaker driver, but I can't figure out where the input for that comes from. :hmm:

I wonder how anyone could have assembled a Fryall from these instructions. :eek:
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Post by zilaihong » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:21 am

Repeater

Thank you! I've been using a small program called Sprint layout. It is an easy tool without fancy automatic features. But it is enough for me.

This pcb is a tribute to peter's original wall-hanging rollz-5 machine, and basically contains same modules (minus 2 six-roolz, his version has 4 six-roolz).

And thanks to your request : you can find something like a small octagon pad with a rectangle pad on my pcb. 12 of them. Just cut the trace in the middle. The signal of this module is then cut off from the mix, and solder a wire on the octagon pad to get the signal. Then everything is completely modular.

This pcb just went to factory today and I'd say it will be 30$ per piece due to the cost.

Do you mean the article here?
http://www.leonardo.info/isast/journal/toclmj17.html
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Post by Repeater » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:41 am

zilaihong wrote:Repeater
This pcb just went to factory today and I'd say it will be 30$ per piece due to the cost.

Do you mean the article here?
http://www.leonardo.info/isast/journal/toclmj17.html
$30 is still reasonable considering your efforts and the amount of time saved by not having to build on the paper circuit boards. Provided they work alright, I'll definitely take one and might be up for two.

Yep, that's the article. I'm pretty sure that the document on the CL Rollz-5 page is a draft for the article as it is very similar yet there are some additional notes. It's been a while since I've looked at either though.

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