Tenori-On

Yamaha shut down all support - let this instrument live on here!

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science
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Post by science » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:14 pm

I've had mixed feelings on the monome since it became a crazy "whoever pays the most can have one" item. It's a cool controller, but I absolutely refuse to pay over retail for things that are in current production.

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Post by confusional » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:43 pm

Redacted.
Last edited by confusional on Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by felix » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:54 pm

I think he means that once a batch sells out (which typically occurs in hours for the more popular 64 / 128 versions) the only way to get one is to pay more than the original selling place, via ebay, craigslist, etc.
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Post by Umcorps » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:35 am

bradleyallen wrote: The US distributor is very friendly, but Yamaha has been silent and useless.
Which is maybe what happens when a huge multinational collides with the boutique market.

The Tenori-On is weird in more ways than one. It's very much the product of one artist's vision but it's realised by one of the biggest producers of musical instruments in the world. I don't know how many units they produced but, prior to the European launch, I was told they were in effect building them by hand. If that was true then, looking at their eventual retail price, its hard to see where the profit is/was.

So I can't say I'm surprised or upset by the lack of support from Yamaha because I honestly never expected anything else. I did wonder if there might be some kind of unofficial mod market at some point but maybe there aren't enough of them out there to grow that kind of interest and Yamaha aren't likely to encourage that anyway.

It's an interesting instrument and can be a very interesting controller. Give it 20 years and its faults will be selling points for collectors keen to recapture the noughties vibe they can't find on their shitty modern kit. :hihi:

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Post by sascha.victoria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:44 am

The Monome is cool but honestly I have no desire to get into Max again. I went down that road in my early years of synthesis and got way into it. After about 2 years I realized I was obsessed with building "systems" in Max and I hadn't made any music.

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Post by drewtoothpaste » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:32 pm

I wish there were an easy answer to the question "can I sync a tenori-on to incoming midi clock and have it output MIDI notes to a real synth" available somewhere - I've thought about getting one of these for a while but have no interest in the internal synth engine.

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Post by Umcorps » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:58 pm

drewtoothpaste wrote:I wish there were an easy answer to the question "can I sync a tenori-on to incoming midi clock and have it output MIDI notes to a real synth
The easy answer is Yes.

Thats the only way I ever use mine.

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Post by drewtoothpaste » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:15 pm

Umcorps wrote:
drewtoothpaste wrote:I wish there were an easy answer to the question "can I sync a tenori-on to incoming midi clock and have it output MIDI notes to a real synth
The easy answer is Yes.

Thats the only way I ever use mine.
That's good to hear! So, no timing issues with the sync or other weird things cropping up?

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Post by science » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:39 pm

bradleyallen wrote:Is this mere hyperbole on your part, or did the folks at monome.org begin selling via auction to the highest bidder? :hmm:
If I remember correctly, monome.org was holding auctions for them at one point.

edit- yep, they were - http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=2376

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Post by confusional » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:09 am

Redacted.
Last edited by confusional on Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Umcorps » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:18 am

drewtoothpaste wrote:That's good to hear! So, no timing issues with the sync or other weird things cropping up?
I've never had any issues with mine but then I tend not to stray much over 100 bpm in most of what I do so I'm not exactly pushing the tempo envelope. Your mileage may vary.

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Post by Synesthesia » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:02 am

hey guys,

got a tenori on on sunday after wanted one since many moons . :bananaguitar:

really happy with it, it's not buggy at all, and the sync is working, in master or slave ... my only issue : if for example, I use it connected to my Future Retro Orb, with the orb as a master, everytime i stop the orb

- on the orb, the sequence goes automatically to step one.
- on the tenori on, the step stay were it is...

so when I press play again, it's the mess ... the good thing, is that I it's very easy to go back to step one on the Tenori on ...

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Post by dadek » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:16 am

New firmware is coming early 2010 that fixes midi sync issues. :hyper:

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Post by darenager » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:01 pm

I have a Tenori On, in fact I had one of the first in the UK, then sold it about 6 months later because I got annoyed with its limitations, but then recently decided that I missed it and got another.

Its true that the sync slave is a bit wack, it seems to be ok as a master though. The midi implementation is very limited, each layer can only transmit on its respective number (1-16).

Comparisons to the monome are moot, apples and oranges, the only thing they have in common is the led buttons. Personally I have no use for a monome as it is nothing more than a paperweight (albeit a pretty one) unless you are using a computer.

Changing patterns (or blocks as Yamaha call them) can result in lag, which does limit its usefulness playing live, and a lot of the sounds are VERY samey, often with only slight differences in envelope settings - it seems that there are a fair number of voices that use the exact same waves. But once you get familiar with it you can coax some half decent sounds.

I think a half decent multi timbral module, with proper editing hooked up to the TO would make a reasonable combo.

There are only 3 user sample slots, each of which can hold 16 samples 0.97 seconds in length for each, so it is ok for drums and short sounds. The problem with this is that you cannot change the pitch or individual levels, so get them to sound how you want, cos once they are loaded (which takes a good few minutes BTW) you are unable to do much with them, aside from change the length of playback.

As a machine overall I would say it has a certain charm about it, it is very good at ambient/drone/minimal stuff but not limited to those, and the sequencers are a joy to use - in that they are very simple and immediate. I also discovered that you can reassign the layers to whatever mode you want, which does make it more useful, you have to hold down L1 and L5 whilst powering up to unlock this mode, once done it stays set after power down. Why Yamaha chose not to make this the default is beyond me.

Hopefully the forthcoming update will address some of the shortcomings, even if they don't I will still keep hold of mine as I do find it quite inspiring just to zone out with.

Here is a video of mine used with a KP3


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Post by ix » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:51 am

same as here - its highly creative m, very powerfull and fun , monome like but better and even outwits a genoqs octopus on some stuff it can fire out - amazing for triggering external gear - lame midi implementation and i just wish they would do a pro version and tweak it.It can create mad sequences and is way quicker to use than some sequencers but you have to record all the data in quick loops in found unless you work out of sync to the sequencer your recording into and do more loose ambient stuff.I sold mine but do miss it - i would recommend people try one , very creative, kind of gave me memories of using my old notrons a bit ( which both died as notrons do... )

[quote="jenamu6"]I had one and I loved the concept, but it's just not working.

It has some serious isues, especially with the timing.

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Post by ix » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:52 am

very cool

[video][/video][/quote]

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Post by darenager » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:52 am

Yeah, I almost pulled the trigger on a Nemo before getting my second TO, they do have a few things in common, but ultimately I think the TO was more appealing to me, mainly due to the built in speakers and battery power, plus the fact that it does have built in sounds even if a lot of them are :picard:

One of the main selling points - the pretty light displays is totally lost on me, I find it annoying so turn them off, if they made the new model run on batteries and in a metal case I would have got that instead because I think the lights on the back are nothing more than a gimmick - I might even look into disconnecting them for more battery life.

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Post by ersatzplanet » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:55 pm

I mainly plug my TO into a spare laptop running Reason. All the sound I need in one little setup. I have a reason patch mapped out with similar sounds (but fatter less j-pop sounding) as the TO and then I can compose on the TO whenever I want and when I get back to the studio and plug it into the laptop with a little tweaking it sounds great. If your music uses a lot of interlocking sequencer lines, the TO would be a great addition to your rig. Great for that "Tubular Bells" sort of building sequencer thing. With 16 tracks to work with I typically avoid the page swapping and do it all in one page and just mix the tracks there fading from one scene to another. Can't wait for the new firmware though.
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Post by rafe127 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:37 pm

Umcorps wrote:
drewtoothpaste wrote:That's good to hear! So, no timing issues with the sync or other weird things cropping up?
I've never had any issues with mine but then I tend not to stray much over 100 bpm in most of what I do so I'm not exactly pushing the tempo envelope. Your mileage may vary.

Hi,
I was just wondering how you do this...
I have my Tenori-On set to "Slave" so that it will sync with incoming MIDI clock and that part works, but then it only outputs very limited data, like only the pitch values, not even Note On/Off. Is that what it's limited to in that setup?

Thanks for your help,

-R

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Post by rafe127 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:37 pm

Also, anyone know anything about the firmware update beyond the basic blurb about MIDI implementation?

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Post by rafe127 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:01 pm

Well, 5 months down the road, the Tenori-On firmware update is installed and functioning. It hasn't changed much for me except for the "Reset Loop Timing" feature, which I use all the time.

So, I am curious what MIDI-CV people are using for their T.O.s

I have used the Kenton Pro-Solo 2 and now I use a Flame Clockwork. Both have been fine for me, but limited to one channel.

Has anyone used Encore Expressionist? MOTM 650? Other things?

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Post by Just me » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:56 pm

I have an Expressionist, but no Tenori-on. It does work for 4 voice but since I have 4 different filters, it is a bit strange to listen to. :hmm: I'd like to touchy/feely a Tenori-on to see if it is something I could use, but won't buy one without playing one first. (Unlike many of my modules that were purchased based on description. Go figure.)
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Post by n3wt15 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:20 pm

I had one for a while soon after they came out, I was pretty happy with it, especially because it ran on batteries and I could take it on the go, plus it was fun to have at friends parties and such to pass it around.

Musically, I found it pretty creative, I used it to control my nord g2, and it really opened up my eyes to how powerful the g2 was because I kept looking deeper to find more interesting uses for the two of them.

I do think that the prices on them are insane, even used, for what they do especially...I think it should be something sold at toys r us for $399, but no more then that.


Every once in a while I ran it through my korg kp3, and came up with a few good things from the internal stuff, but nothing I ever ended up recording.


I do want one now, I miss it, more for the visual aspect of it. I have had a monome, and now have a launchpad, and though they all are kind of the same thing, I like the tenori on because you can see it from tha back, and the midi jack

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Post by ersatzplanet » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:22 am

rafe127 wrote:Well, 5 months down the road, the Tenori-On firmware update is installed and functioning. It hasn't changed much for me except for the "Reset Loop Timing" feature, which I use all the time.

So, I am curious what MIDI-CV people are using for their T.O.s

I have used the Kenton Pro-Solo 2 and now I use a Flame Clockwork. Both have been fine for me, but limited to one channel.

Has anyone used Encore Expressionist? MOTM 650? Other things?
I have 4 Kenton Pro-solos and a Doepfer A-190 MIDI>CV converter for use with TO and my modular rig. The main advantage I find in that setup is the use of some channels transposing other channels. You can get very complex lines when you use it that way. It is something that is not easy to do if you are just in the MIDI domain unless you have MAX or something like it. The advantage of multiple mono MIDI>CV converters is that you can easily change MIDI channels on them while running them (some care must be used to not get stuck notes though) and sequences can really be played live and made to evolve over time. The TO easily can do pop or dance sort of things but when you use it to trigger a modular running filters or other parameters other than just pitch you can get some very interesting things happening. Get as many channels of CV as you can. Mixing both CV control (filters, VCAs, panning, effects etc) and modifying the output from Reason (also controlled by the TO) can get very fun for sure.
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Post by hbc » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:01 pm

I just broke down and ordered a Tenori-on. Can't wait.

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