nw2s::io progress!

Discussion, support, and resources for our noise making modules and kits.

Moderators: Kent, scottwilson

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:46 am

Yes same cabling, especially in your specific case.

s

User avatar
CF3
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3017
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:40 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by CF3 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:51 pm

So tempting to just do the passive model (especially the price :moneyburn: ). Gotta stay strong and wait for the active one. :cry: My outboard will thank me later.

User avatar
ignatius
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15466
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: oregon
Contact:

Post by ignatius » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:05 pm

can't wait for this thing!

User avatar
saemola
Common Wiggler
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 4:09 pm

Post by saemola » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:58 pm

My opinion might be meaningless as the design and everything is already locked down, but here it comes:
as you mentioned, the balanced version is probably overkill for a lot of users.
In my opinion that's not because it's balanced, but rather because it has A LOT of I/O.
Personally, I don't think I will pay $400-500 for such a module (though I understand that the price is good for such a high-value tool) and that's simply because I'm not gonna use half the I/Os most of the time.

To cut it short: a 4I/4O version would be a great way to cut price and lure in other buyers.

But that's my stupid 2c :yay:

That being said, great module! About time someone would come up with something to cover these kind of needs.

User avatar
visible cow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA

Post by visible cow » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:14 pm

I'm also going to be patient and wait for the balanced version. I'll be running a 20' long snake to my interface so unbalanced probably won't be ideal. Thanks for the update!

User avatar
visible cow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA

Post by visible cow » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:15 pm

I'm also going to be patient and wait for the balanced version. I'll be running a 20' long snake to my interface so unbalanced probably won't be ideal. Thanks for the update!

User avatar
C14ru5
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:53 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Post by C14ru5 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:12 am

saemola wrote:a 4I/4O version would be a great way to cut price and lure in other buyers.
Sounds like a good idea on paper, but the question is how much of a price reduction you'd actually be able to accomplish. Yes, there would be less components and probably less labor, but would that really add up to a significant price reduction, such as -$100?. I have my doubts. But I'd love to be surprised ;)

Besides, once you get into the 4I/4O segment, there are suddenly a lot of alternatives if you buy modules in pairs. And then some may start asking why there is no headphones out, and other types of connectors (yes, I realize it's a slippery slope argument). So it makes much more sense to present a module that is simply a professional snake cable I/O. Nothing more, nothing less. Those who know what it does, will need it, and those who don't, won't.

User avatar
saemola
Common Wiggler
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 4:09 pm

Post by saemola » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:20 am

hmmm, you're probably right: the price reduction wouldn't be as proportional as I initially though...

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:40 pm

So if the passive version were going to have a hypothetical (bypassable) pad on the output, what would you vote for? 9dB? 12dB? -ish?

s

User avatar
seank
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: los angeles
Contact:

Post by seank » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:42 pm

what's the easiest way to get euro closer to line level?

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:15 pm

Well, +4dBu is about 3.5V P-P. Assuming "nominal" eurorack level is 10V P-P (+13dBu), then you'd want a 9dB reduction.

With the natural 3dB unbalanced to balanced reduction, the resistor pad would need to be 6dB... which for an L-pad would be resistor values of R and 3R.

The problem would be if you're going into an unbalanced piece of gear, then you'd want all 9dB to come from the resistors.

There's another post on here I've read that makes the 9dB case very well. The total level _range_ isn't that different, it's only that euro levels average a bit more.

9dB is probably a good place to start for pre-build models and for a kit someone could customize any combination they wanted. There's a bit of room for a few resistors and a 2x8 pin header to make the pad bypassable. If it increases the utility, it's worth the few extra cents in parts.

-s

User avatar
seank
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: los angeles
Contact:

Post by seank » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:23 pm

sounds good to me. will that be the standard for the passive kits?

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:52 pm

Yup. kits and pre-assembled.

User avatar
seank
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: los angeles
Contact:

Post by seank » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:53 pm

still looking good for kits before christmas? i just got my new mixer and snakes. very sweaty for these modules.

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:58 pm

Yup. definitely. Hopefully in the next week or two. Board are only 3 days away from when I pull the trigger. I have all the other long-wait parts. Panels and jacks are just waiting.

s

User avatar
seank
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: los angeles
Contact:

Post by seank » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:01 pm

yes! perfect timing! thanks for all your work on this. it is the exact thing i needed for my live setup.

User avatar
flipper16
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:38 am
Location: London UK

Post by flipper16 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:56 am

Hi Scott, I'm about to build a small modular system that I want to integrate into my DAW (Ableton). I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 and Octopre Dynamic as i/o.

I am hoping to use your module to connect the modular to the Octopre and have a couple of noob questions for you. (sorry)

1. Is the power supply of the Doepfer A-100 G6 sufficient?

2. DB25 to TRS cable?

3. Passive or Active?

Any help and advice you can provide will be much appreciated.

Once again sorry for noob questions but we all have to start somewhere.

User avatar
ignatius
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15466
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: oregon
Contact:

Post by ignatius » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:26 am

flipper16 wrote:Hi Scott, I'm about to build a small modular system that I want to integrate into my DAW (Ableton). I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 and Octopre Dynamic as i/o.

I am hoping to use your module to connect the modular to the Octopre and have a couple of noob questions for you. (sorry)

1. Is the power supply of the Doepfer A-100 G6 sufficient?

2. DB25 to TRS cable?

3. Passive or Active?

Any help and advice you can provide will be much appreciated.

Once again sorry for noob questions but we all have to start somewhere.
read backa few posts.. all your answers are there. it's only a 3 page thread.

anyway..
1. yes
2. DB25 -> to whatever you want to patch it to. (trs, xlr whatever)
3. both (2 versions)

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:19 am

Correct - when choosing between XLR, TRS, or even DB-25, it's going to depend completely on your chosen interface's specific connfiguration.

The earlier question posed was for an A&H mixer whose line inputs were all on TRS and mic inputs were all on XLR. You always want to find out what inputs your interface uses for line ins and line outs and choose that one.

For me, my interface of choice is the Avid HD IO which is all DB-25, so I'm using DB-25 to DB-25.

I have a secondary interface I use for testing which is the MOTU Ultralite Mk 3. Besides a couple of mic inputs, that one uses TRS. So I also have a set of DB-25 to TRS.

In your case, take a look at the specs for the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and it's got mic inputs that accept up to +8dBu and line inputs that accept up to +28dBu... so you definitely want to use the line inputs. The interface uses a combo XLR/TRS connector which is interesting.

It's not immediately clear to me from the manual as to how it knows when to use mic levels, line levels, and instrument levels, so maybe it's a software switch? (Sometimes it's a physical switch, but I don't see any) In any case you'll want to know how to do this and ensure that you're using the line-level input circuitry.

Of particular note is that the line outs are only on TRS, so you'll likely want to have DB-25 to TRS.

The octopre has a similar set of features: three input modes, combo connectors on the inputs and TRS only on the outputs.


As to the balanced vs unbalanced... at least for the initial release, I'll be offering an upgrade from the unbalanced version to the balanced version for those who want it. You're going to want balanced if you are using particularly long cable runs, have potential hum problems, or just want an additional level of security against potential problems in the future.

Short answer is to try out the unbalanced and see what you think. You'll be able to upgrade as soon as the balanced is ready for the price difference alone.

Also, for anyone shopping around for cabling, I should mention that redco audio has competitive pricing, a wide selection of cable and connector options, and they are made in the US by a small manufacturer, so there's that! (no affiliation, just use them from time to time... sometimes you can find Proco snakes cheap enough on sale and that's hard to argue with)

Hope that helps,

s

User avatar
flipper16
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:38 am
Location: London UK

Post by flipper16 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:33 am

That helps a lot thanks.

Think I'll wait for the balanced version, any more info on a release date as I'll definitely be ordering one of these.

User avatar
visible cow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA

Post by visible cow » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:58 pm

I noticed on your site that the io is available for preoreder....but when I entered my US shipping details it said there were no available shipping options for my area. :hmm:

Very eager to get one of these!

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:56 pm

thanks for the note. ill take a look and see whats up with it. published it this morning but had to run out right after.

s

User avatar
scottwilson
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Post by scottwilson » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:00 pm

Hopefully it's working now. Debugging checkout via paypal as the seller is actually a pain, but I changed from the default clunky fixed-rate shipping to real-time USPS calculator, so it should be more accurate for everyone... and hopefully not do weird things like tell you there's no options.

Let me know if you have any more problems. Thanks for the help troubleshooting. I'll make a bit more of a public announcement Monday... consider this weekend the "soft launch"

-s

User avatar
visible cow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA

Post by visible cow » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:04 pm

Great, placed my order for the unbalanced, assembled version. Will most likely get the balanced upgrade when it becomes available.....but figured I'd wait to learn about the current consumption.

Thanks!

User avatar
sempervirent
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4332
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:40 pm
Location: Republic of Cascadia
Contact:

Post by sempervirent » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:14 pm

Nice work Scott, glad to see this one coming together.

Post Reply

Return to “nw2s”