uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

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raxis1
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uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by raxis1 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:55 am

I've been enjoying the uTune so far, but I've run into a frustrating issue which I can't find a workaround for. I'm not certain this isn't operator error, but haven't found a workaround. It appears that a held note on a MIDI channel can affect the output of a CV being driven by a different MIDI channel on Note-Off if the note is still held on the other channel.

This occurs for me on Firmware 2.06. I had started with an earlier firmware release and also saw the same issue:

The setup is (roughly) as follows:

uTune with 1 expander (4 total outputs), though this happened with just two outputs (no expander) too. Single MIDI sequencer supporting multiple channels feeding the uTune through DIN in. Note routing configured from DIN in to CV. MIDI in configured to send input from MIDI channel 2 (arbitrary) to CV/GATE channels 1 and 2 in Mono mode (one voice). MIDI in configured to send input from MIDI channel 3 (also arbitrary) to CV/GATE channels 2 and 3 in Mono mode (second voice). Retrigger set for all channels.

If I play a note to channel 3 (say C0) and select that the note should be held on the MIDI controller (Note-On but no Note-Off is sent according to the uTune MIDI log), the CV output for C0 is sent to the CV 3 and 4 ouput (as expected). While that note continues to 'drone', if I then play a different note to MIDI channel 2 (say F1), that note is sent to the CV 1 and 2 output (Note-On sent on MIDI channel 2), but the moment I release that F1 (Note-Off sent on MIDI channel 2), I immediately see CV 1 and 2 trigger their gates again and jump to C0, the note currently held on the other MIDI channel. The selection of notes doesn't appear to matter. If I play a different note on MIDI channel 3 (still held), that's now the note that channel 2 jumps back to whenever I release a note played on MIDI channel 2.

Once I trigger the Note-Off on Midi channel 3 (release the held note(s)), subsequent notes on MIDI channel 2 no longer jump back to the note value last played on MIDI channel 3. This remain a problem because running two sequences over MIDI channels 2 and 3 (in this case) results in a notes leaping back and forth across channels, making harmony difficult to control whenever notes have different durations on each channel.

So far nothing I've tried has eliminated the issue. I suspect the MIDI controller isn't re-triggering the note, but only because I don't see that in the uTune log.

Any assistance or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. If this is already discussed in another forum post, I wasn't able to find it.

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acidbob
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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:24 pm

Sorry cant really help with this as I haven't been using it like you. But maybe I can test it during the weekend, no promises though.

raxis1
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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by raxis1 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:14 pm

Thank you. Let me know if there's any information that would be useful in terms of a repro.

Just for reference, I've been observing this primarily with a KeyStep Pro driving the the MIDI channels (latest firmware from 2020-19 Nov installed as of writing this), but I've also observed it with a Roland JD-Xi by mapping two MIDI outs the same way, so I don't think it's specifically a behavioral quirk of the controller/sequencer driving the channels. I observe that if the same value of held note is played on the channel that's exhibiting the 'bouncing' behavior (not the channel on which it's still being held), that the bouncing behavior stops for that note. The 'held' state is not affected on the other channel.

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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:06 pm

Click the pictures and they will be oriented the correct way.

I just had a play this evening, and maybe it's user error but I cant get channel 2 working, the gate is just kept high, or at some voltage, not responding at all. the notes can be seen but the gate output doesnt do anything.

CH1 to CH1 Mono
CH2 to CH2 Mono

I am trying a firmware reset.
IMG_0944.jpg
IMG_0943.jpg
IMG_0942.jpg
Edit:
Reset doesnt work.

Tried re-installing the firmware.

I think I found this error running on the beta version.
In midi note routing, deselecting usb removed the notes from the DIN. And DIN does nothing.
IMG_0941.jpg
Edit2:
Re-installed FW 2.06
And the bugs have gone away.

One thing I noticed is that some short notes are are being received as being longer/hanging when using one uTune as 2 separate midi to CV
Again:
CH1 to CH1 Mono
CH2 to CH2 Mono (Some notes on CH2 are short, but comes out to be longer)

So in that regard, there is "crosstalk" if you will.
I am not sure if this happens when a keyboard or sequencer is not sending note off?

Another bug I also found is that when assigning my expanders 2 channels to receive velocity from CH1 and CH2 one of them is not outputting any voltage.
CH1 to CH1 Mono
CH2 to CH2 Mono
CH3 CV velocity from CH1 (working)
CH4 CV velocity from CH2 (Not working, although it works with "controllr")

raxis1
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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by raxis1 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:09 pm

That's interesting. I've not had issues with the output gates not triggering at all or remaining high (presuming no hardware issue, of course). Does the simple-config show anything other than the defaults for the behavior of the input gates? I have all my output gates configured to 'Midi Gate' so that they follow the MIDI-in (normally), I'm not certain if that's the default. The only obvious difference in configuration I saw is the Legato vs Retrigger mode, but switching that doesn't appear to result in any major changes to the behavior.

I did a bit more tinkering and discovered that despite my original statement, it does appear to matter which midi channels are selected as to whether the behavior I was seeing manifests. If MIDI channels 2 and 3 map to outputs 1 and 2 it occurs. If MIDI channels 1 and 2 map to outputs 1 and 2, it does not (or at least in the same circumstances). That may be something I can work around, since the reason for skipping past MIDI channel 1 was primarily to have that MIDI output drive a Mother-32, which can be reconfigured to use a different MIDI input channel.

It still suggests a subtle 'bug' (or unexpected intended behavior), but something that can probably be worked around.
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acidbob
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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:41 pm

Can I ask, what FW are you on?

raxis1
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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by raxis1 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:54 pm

FW 2.06, at least according to the startup screen. I installed it immediately after experiencing these issues initially.

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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:00 am

Ah I see, ok. Maybe it's best to wait for a reply from Tobi?

Could you perhaps test the beta?
tubbutec wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:39 am
There is now a beta firmware update which fixes an issue with large scales, scale masks and many expanders.
In some situations the module would slow down and freeze eventually

this is a beta fix. Firmware is tested roughly but there still might be issues. If you are having these problems it is worth a try, you can not break anything:
https://tubbutec.de/files/uTuneFW-2.7beta.zip
Maybe you can replicate the problems I had.

The only issue I can see with my setup is that my sequencer doesnt send "note off" I have been testing with a simple midi keyboard and my Elektron Machinedrum. My midi keyboard sends note off, and that doesnt really seem to solve it.

The goal for me was actually to get the expander and in that way be able to sequence my two oscillators independently.
I just never got around to it as I had to fix them first (solder a cap in to prevent internal feedback for better tracking)

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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by tubbutec » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:38 am

Thank you all for your bug reports.
I will have a look at this as soon as I can find the time to fully engage.
Will all be fixed of course.

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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:17 am

Thanks so much, let us know if you need help

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Re: uTune midi channel cross-talk issue (apparent)

Post by acidbob » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:05 am

tubbutec wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:38 am
Thank you all for your bug reports.
I will have a look at this as soon as I can find the time to fully engage.
Will all be fixed of course.
Hi Tobi, just wondering if you had time to look into solving what we talked about?
Not to stress you or anything, but would be really cool to get the utune setup working.
Also I am here on PM if you have any questions or you need me to test it in any way.
Happy easter ;)

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