Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post your patches here! Put the format(s) in the subject.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
The Grump
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by The Grump » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:13 pm

For many years I have been on a quest to find the device or devices that will consistently yield the best of the best for whomping kicks that techno relies upon. I have used TR-909's on and off, as well as TR-808's, I have a Jomox XBase09, Volca Kick, several hardware synths, and more software plugins than most dieties you would care to name.

In software, the best tool I've found has been Sonic Academy's KICK2 plugin, but software isn't stable enough for live use, at least not when it comes to using that particular plugin. The D16 Drimazon is actually pretty solid, and sounds quite good, but it's really just a modded 909 emulator.

Years ago, I discovered the joys of using my Microwave Rev A to build kicks with the Palm VCF, but had kind of set it by the wayside. However, using KICK2 gave me an idea. The thing that makes KICK2 such a weapon is the ability to create very complex, FAST multistage envelopes, especially for the frequency of its sine generator. How about creating a similar system in the analog domain by applying the Wave Envelope in the Microwave to the cutoff of the VCF?

Let me tell you: holy mother of ZOMFGWTFBBQ???!??!

The Microwave patch is basically Osc 1 set to a triangle, which is third to last wave on any wavetable, volume 5 just to give the VCF something to start its self oscillation. Osc2 is volume 0, not in use.
Filter resonance is at about 65%. Anything above 50% will do.
I set the filter mod1 amount to +63, Mod1 Control to Modwheel, and Mod1 Source to the Wave Envelope.
Then I just go into the Wave Envelope, and add or subtract points as I need, and between the filter ADSR, env amt, keytracking, cutoff, combined with the modwheel and Wave envelope values, I have the potential makings of some of the biggest, baddest, thickest, stinkiest analog kicks around if compressed and EQ'd properly.

What have you found to be your ultimate kick machine so far?
Last edited by The Grump on Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6634
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:21 pm

Not sure if I have an ultimate, depends on what I'm doing. Jomox 999, Tiptop BD808 is really good. For KICK2 I load samples of kicks I've made into the SP-16.

User avatar
ignatius
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 15471
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: oregon
Contact:

Post by ignatius » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:07 pm

have made some kicks i like w/nord lead 3 and the fm algorithms.

ultrakick max for live device is quite extensive and full of parameters to make specific changes.. tiny changes.

https://isotonikstudios.com/product/ult ... rum-synth/

there's many ways to make kicks in modular systems. i like FM for getting those lows with that tough of high buzz in there. filters and oscillators and a good expo attack.

User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3800
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Post by cptnal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:29 am

Whenever I think kick this comes to mind:

[video][/video]

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6634
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:32 am

ignatius wrote:i like FM for getting those lows with that tough of high buzz in there. filters and oscillators and a good expo attack.
Yep same. I have got some nice kicks out of FM'd Rubicon and also Synthtech E370.

The Grump
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Post by The Grump » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:49 am

There sre some really good suggestions, thanks for chiming in. I sometimes load kicks I've made in KICK2 into my MPC1k, for some reason, that unit and I have never quite clicked. Maybe one day.

User avatar
minigmgoit
Common Wiggler
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:26 am

Post by minigmgoit » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:43 pm

I recently got the Jomox Kick Module and for me it's got everything I could want. It's got huge meaty kicks and I find myself using it when I'm chopping up breaks in my modular to augment the sampled kicks and just have it triggered by the same signal as other kick. I really love that module. I was a bit bummed out about having to spend so much on a simple kick drum however once I started using it and hearing how it came through in the mix it was love. And it just sounds so utterly epic through a large sound system.

I like the tiptop 808 too, nice and deep and good for more mellow "daytime" techno/house. I've got a satisfactory kick from the Sara Filter too.

User avatar
b9
Common Wiggler
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:04 am
Location: TX/RX

Post by b9 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:33 pm

my profile pic recorded into an akai s950 gave me the best digital kick sample I've ever used. Still exploring purely modular possibilities.

indigogogo
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:33 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by indigogogo » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

WMDs Crater does a really nice job, morphing from standard house kicks, to grabber square crunchinesss, to smooth sub bass lines.

User avatar
3hands
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:36 pm
Location: Ottawa Ontario

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by 3hands » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:05 pm

I’ve owned 909’s, 808’s all that...

The one Im using a lot now is the SYO.5

It’s a recreation of a Pearl Syncussion channel. And holy Christ. Whenever I use it it automatically goes to a limiter, and my monitor volume has to get turned down. It makes frequencies that make my testicles feel funny (yes that’s tmi but it’s hilarious).

I love it. And triggered from the Roland TR09, it’s just a fantastic thing!
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

astromass
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:51 pm
Location: PA

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by astromass » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:15 pm

+1 on the WMD crater.... versatile and sounds amazing! Love WMD’s stuff. :party:

User avatar
what gives?
Common Wiggler
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:35 am

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by what gives? » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:53 am

BIA

User avatar
wuff_miggler
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:11 pm
Location: Disney, Australia

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by wuff_miggler » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:05 am

in researching kick drums....i do not own any of these.but these look like the beastliest around:

*Cwejman BLD bass and Drum Module.

*Thomas Henry Mega Percussive Synth (diy only?)
https://synthcube.com/cart/thomas-henry ... euro-30-hp

*Jomox Mbase 11

The Grump
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by The Grump » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:16 am

wuff_miggler wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:05 am
in researching kick drums....i do not own any of these.but these look like the beastliest around:

*Cwejman BLD bass and Drum Module.

*Thomas Henry Mega Percussive Synth (diy only?)
https://synthcube.com/cart/thomas-henry ... euro-30-hp

*Jomox Mbase 11
As I said, I have an XBase09, which is pretty similar to the MBase 11, and yeah, it's good, but... it ain't the one to take the title.

Cwejman? Maybe. They do make some great sounding gear, for sure. I have dreams of one day owning and using an S1, but I've yet to hear one in the flesh and mess with it enough to say it can do the thing for sure. The MW1, I know for a fact, has time and again out thumped, out whomped, out oomphed, out stomped every other hardware device for making a kick so far, and it's all about that damn Wave Envelope surgically tuning and twisting the behavior of that Waldorf VCF.

However, that Thomas Henry thing does look like it could do something.

User avatar
wuff_miggler
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:11 pm
Location: Disney, Australia

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by wuff_miggler » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:50 pm

The Thomas Henry module architecture looks more or less like physical modelling - but completely analogue - but i have not seen 1 example video where the person using it wasnt making crappy boop noises with it.

Im 100% sure that thing can cause damage....i'd just want to see it. Even the diy modules WITHOUT components costs $250 or so.

Jaypee
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:46 am

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by Jaypee » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:20 am

I have a Cwejman BLD-MK2 for sale if anyone is interested.

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=228032&p=3206917&h ... a#p3206917


Selling because I prefer patching it, my own way. But this module is way more than "bass lead and drum generator"!
"Those aren't your daddy's waveforms " Cynthia Webster

User avatar
artilect99
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:05 pm
Location: Florida, US

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by artilect99 » Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 am

For techno kicks it's hard to beat the ol' self-oscillating filter with a sharp exponential FM envelope overloading a mixer channel. Old tricks are the best tricks

User avatar
kxx303
Common Wiggler
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:07 am
Location: RU

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by kxx303 » Fri May 22, 2020 5:00 am

artilect99 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 am
For techno kicks it's hard to beat the ol' self-oscillating filter with a sharp exponential FM envelope overloading a mixer channel. Old tricks are the best tricks
I love VCF1E for it and almost forgot when i used it to actually filter smthing.
BC / MG / IG / YT

User avatar
sir stony
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:09 pm
Location: Bavaria

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by sir stony » Fri May 22, 2020 5:55 am

I can't point to any *one* ultimate kick source. I found that a lot depends on the track that evolves around that kick. One that may have felt like the ultimate kick may not work so well, or even not at all, with another track. And just using an EQ will often not be enough to put it right, either. So far, I'll typically stick to classic patching it all from scratch and (usually) sampling that, or using samples/sounds from some of my non modular gear or other. I've come very close to getting an SSF Entity, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. The much praised wmd crater didn't sit right with me because of relative timing of the analog and the digital part, and the missing feature to adjust this.
However, looking for the "one" ultimate solution is not going to do much good. At least not if you like to extend your style beyond a narrow range.
WTB: Dovemans SHFT

User avatar
artilect99
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:05 pm
Location: Florida, US

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by artilect99 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:01 am

I think I read somewhere that the kicks in the Simmons SDSV used to make people shit their pants and/or pass out due to the infrasonic frequencies. It probably isn't true, but it's a great story...

User avatar
SunPulse
Common Wiggler
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:56 am
Location: Calgary

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by SunPulse » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:40 pm

Why not start with recording a real kick drum the way you would like to hear it. An excellent way to get a kick sound is to use a two microphone setup: a 10" sub-kick mic for the bottom end and a separate mic for the sound of the beater. Roll off the EQ on the sub-kick so you're only getting the sound that hits you in the chest. Roll of the lower and upper EQ on the beater mic so you're only getting the snap of the beater. Make sure they're in phase and not cancelling each other out and run them through a compressor to taste. Record that sound and use that as your starting point for whatever treatments you want to give (saturation, reverb, etc).
Instagram: sunpulse.ay

User avatar
Zerius
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:37 pm
Location: BZH

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by Zerius » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:50 am

One trick I like to do with kicks is to use acoustic kick sample from any sample pack or old drum machines and layer ITB with a modular kick/bass patch mixed. I will do few processing in Ableton, compression/eq/saturation to glue a new fresh kick.
That way I have full control of the frequency range, I have been happy with my kicks only in that way unfortunately.
What I do recently as well is using the synth engine kick of my Analog rytm with kick samples and blend them together with processing then resample into the AR.

apestate
Common Wiggler
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:17 am
Location: Maastricht

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by apestate » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:16 pm

A) Clean sine from a doepfer a-110-4, fm modulation + pitch mod, into LPG, into vca mixer
B) colored noise into filter into vca mixer, envelope onto filter parameters and vca cv
Mixer output into another LPG or compressor
=Happy boom boom

nuromantix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Any: The search for the ultimate kick machine

Post by nuromantix » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:53 am

For those synthy kicks I find the maths envelope is very snappy, use that on a triangle osc or a self oscillating filter, and then run the output through the doepfer A137-1 to add that crunch to the attack. Easy to make great sounds from 909 thud through to hard electro zappers. Choice of envelope for the pitch mod is definitely critical.

Post Reply

Return to “Synthesis Techniques”