(Hard) Trance Patch

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electrizity
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(Hard) Trance Patch

Post by electrizity » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:44 am

Hey everyone,

I guess something like this been asked quite a few times here?
But I'm quite snoopy about how to recreate one of those Trance or Hard Trance leads.
The sound I'm speaking about is noticeable here for example: (I've added the time stamp.)

I've got quite a few analogue synths at my place and was trying to recreate this exact patch but without much success. I used my sawtooths, went unisono, added quite a bit of white noise, some overdrive - but non of these things put it where I wanted it to be. Could it be that those leads are mostly made with digital synths?

Could someone assist please?

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acgenerator
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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by acgenerator » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:50 am

I believe what was typically called a "Synth Lead" on old Romplers was a derivative of a BRASS patch.

It's all about:
DETUNED Saw Waves
Envelope controlling the filter

These should help:
1)


2) http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/ ... r-model-d/


Detuning is also what is used in the classic "Hoover" and "Reese Bass" sounds:
3)


4) https://www.attackmagazine.com/techniqu ... ass-redux/

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electrizity
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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by electrizity » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:48 am

Thanks a lot. Those detuned Saws brought me a little closer and I could do this with my prophet 12 and a lil' compression:
https://soundcloud.com/user-761950642/untitled

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acgenerator
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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by acgenerator » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:21 pm

Glad to hear it!

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by helix » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:03 am

Trance and hard trance leads are usually supersaws, first brought to the market with the Roland JP-8000/8080. Access Virus then were able to do similar leads with saws and Unison mode (actually many synths could get similar sounds for years before but could never do proper trance style leads because all the polyphony was used up by the unison mode, meaning notes couldn't overlap when releasing, making them not that "trancey"

These days most trance music is done with synths like zebra, or sylenth, or other newer things i dont know about.


In eurorack you can do a supersaw with Mutable Instruments - Plaits

Acid Rain Technologies - Chainsaw
Happy Nerding - Supersawtor

to name a few


I used to produce trance (under my own name Michael Dow) so have always been a big supersaw fan, still own my JP-8080 and Virus TI now

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by acgenerator » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:44 pm

helix wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:03 am
Trance and hard trance leads are usually supersaws, first brought to the market with the Roland JP-8000/8080. Access Virus then were able to do similar leads with saws and Unison mode (actually many synths could get similar sounds for years before but could never do proper trance style leads because all the polyphony was used up by the unison mode, meaning notes couldn't overlap when releasing, making them not that "trancey"

These days most trance music is done with synths like zebra, or sylenth, or other newer things i dont know about.


In eurorack you can do a supersaw with Mutable Instruments - Plaits

Acid Rain Technologies - Chainsaw
Happy Nerding - Supersawtor

to name a few


I used to produce trance (under my own name Michael Dow) so have always been a big supersaw fan, still own my JP-8080 and Virus TI now
Too add onto this response for future readers:

The supersaw effect and the detuned saws methods are similar. The main difference is whether you want the saws to be harmonic / synced phase offset sort of sound (thicker, edgier style good for "stabs") or if you want to the saws to drift in-and-out of sync (a bit of timbre movement that can be a bit more ambient)

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by helix » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:36 am

Indeed, you'll never get the same sound as a proper supersaw by just detuning 7 saws. BUt you could use something like the ladik waveform animator (maybe deepest module ever?) or the doepfer wave multiplier

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by helix » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:42 am



Detuning is also what is used in the classic "Hoover" and "Reese Bass" sounds:
3)


4) https://www.attackmagazine.com/techniqu ... ass-redux/
Actually a proper hoover doesn't have any detuning as such other than chorus on it. It's done on a roland alpha juno or an mks-50. The difference here is that the alpha juno/mks doesnt actually have detuning as it only really has one oscillator which is splittable much like a modular oscillator. The thickness in the sound comes from something almost no other synth can do and thats saw wave PWM. You;ll never get a PROPER hoover sound with detuned saws. But can get close ish. :mrgreen:

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by helix » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:44 am

I mean that hoover actually doesnt sound like a hoover at all. Just a pitch bent supersaw, although it sounds pretty nasty all the same, i like it

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by acgenerator » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm

helix wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:36 am
Indeed, you'll never get the same sound as a proper supersaw by just detuning 7 saws. BUt you could use something like the ladik waveform animator (maybe deepest module ever?) or the doepfer wave multiplier
I use the Doepfer A-137-2 myself
helix wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:42 am

Actually a proper hoover doesn't have any detuning as such other than chorus on it. It's done on a roland alpha juno or an mks-50. The difference here is that the alpha juno/mks doesnt actually have detuning as it only really has one oscillator which is splittable much like a modular oscillator. The thickness in the sound comes from something almost no other synth can do and thats saw wave PWM. You;ll never get a PROPER hoover sound with detuned saws. But can get close ish. :mrgreen:
I gave a few examples (none of which are mine) to help Original Poster get the gist of that family of sounds. Chorus is a slightly detuned/ slightly delayed version of the original sound.

Many ways to skin a :forumcats:

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by helix » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:41 am

acgenerator wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm
helix wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:36 am
Indeed, you'll never get the same sound as a proper supersaw by just detuning 7 saws. BUt you could use something like the ladik waveform animator (maybe deepest module ever?) or the doepfer wave multiplier
I use the Doepfer A-137-2 myself



How do you find the 137-2? I've seen a few uninspiring videos of it but seems like it could be good. Does it work well at all with non standard waves such as wavetables or FM sounds? Would be more interested in it for thickening up my chord v2 or plaits sounds

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by acgenerator » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:24 pm

helix wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:41 am
acgenerator wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm
helix wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:36 am
Indeed, you'll never get the same sound as a proper supersaw by just detuning 7 saws. BUt you could use something like the ladik waveform animator (maybe deepest module ever?) or the doepfer wave multiplier
I use the Doepfer A-137-2 myself

How do you find the 137-2? I've seen a few uninspiring videos of it but seems like it could be good. Does it work well at all with non standard waves such as wavetables or FM sounds? Would be more interested in it for thickening up my chord v2 or plaits sounds
It works with stuff that's ring modded or function based like IFM denum.

Given it's a comparitor function underneath the hood, I'd have to check if something more subtle like FM shows up in a meaningful way or conversely if the multiple copies just cause too much noise when mixed. I normally keep this mangler early in the signal path.

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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:30 pm

unison detuned saws. add reverb and some delay and let it rip
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Re: (Hard) Trance Patch

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:40 pm

I used a compressor on the miniak to get the attack envelope shorter on a supersaw. it was cheaper than buying a proper keyboard with good supersaws and quick attack.
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