Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

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johnleonne
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Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by johnleonne » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 am

Using modular only, does anyone have a tip on how to send a trigger that starts at say 1 beat per 2 seconds, and then slowly (linearly) increases speed over say 5 minutes until it reaches 1 beat per second? Without having to turn any knobs that is. ;)

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cptnal
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by cptnal » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:48 am

Ramp LFO into clock's FM?
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TVNoel
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by TVNoel » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:05 am

Depends what modules you have of course, but here's how I would do it in Maths:

- Set channel 1 to cycle and use the End of Rise output as my trigger source
- Patch output of channel 4 into rise time on channel 1
- Might need to patch some negative voltage from channels 2 or 3 into the rise time of channel 4 to get the time as long as 5 mins
- Then would need some way to trigger channel 4, or could just set this to a long cycle

I'm on vacation and nowhere near my rack, so I can't test it, but that's how I'd start anyway.

johnleonne
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by johnleonne » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:46 pm

@TVNoel Thanks for the pointers! Needed that. I was barking up the wrong trees (with analogue LFOs, Pamela's Workout, and what not), while Maths was just in front of me... :doh:

It took a bit of effort, but in the end I managed to get it. :-) I bumped into an additional "requirement": after it hits 1 beat / sec it should stay there for a while longer rather than immediately reset back to the beginning of cycle (2 beats / sec). So I went for the OR output, ensuring a minimum voltage for the rise time, and then have channel 4 overshoot that minimum (into the negative territory) for a while until it reaches EOC.

The patch:

- Take trigger out from channel 1 EOR
- On channel 1 set Rise and Fall both to ~ 11am and vari-reponse to linear
- Hit cycle button of channel 1
- Patch OR output to Rise CV Input of channel 1
- Set channels 2, 3 and 4 attenuverters to 12pm
- Set channel 1 attenuverter to ~ 3pm until you hear 1 beat / sec (this is a bit finicky; this will be the minimum bpm)
- On channel 4 set Rise to minimum and Fall to maximum, vari-response to linear, set channel 4 attenuverter to ~ 3pm, and hit the cycle button of channel 4. It now starts at ~ 2 beats / sec and slowly ramps up to ~ 1 beat / sec

Needed to take the Fall rather than the Rise of channel 4 to control the slow rampup of speed of channel 1's Rise. At this point it did kind of work, except that the fall cycle reached the 1 bps in about 40 seconds, and finished the cycle in 1:15. To extend the rampup to 5 minutes:

- Patch channel 3 output to the Both CV Input of channel 4, and set channel 3 attenuverter to ~ 10:30.

Patching channel 3 output to the Fall CV input didn't quite work out, because the Fall CV input is linear, and therefor it still ended too quickly. The Both CV input is exponential and therefor it can be extended to minutes. At least, that's how I understand it now after playing with both.

The result is that it now starts with 2 beats / sec, and after 5 minutes it arrives at 1 beat / sec, and the cycle ends at about 6:15.

This is actually the first time I dived this deep into Maths. Amazing this could all be achieved with just 1 module. My appreciation for Maths has taken off. :)

IMG_187900.jpg

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TVNoel
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by TVNoel » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:31 am

Glad I could be of inspiration! Maths is just such an an amazing sketchpad for these kinds of "what if...?" ideas.

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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by yhf » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:46 am

johnleonne wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:46 pm
@TVNoel Thanks for the pointers! Needed that. I was barking up the wrong trees (with analogue LFOs, Pamela's Workout, and what not), while Maths was just in front of me... :doh:

It took a bit of effort, but in the end I managed to get it. :-) I bumped into an additional "requirement": after it hits 1 beat / sec it should stay there for a while longer rather than immediately reset back to the beginning of cycle (2 beats / sec). So I went for the OR output, ensuring a minimum voltage for the rise time, and then have channel 4 overshoot that minimum (into the negative territory) for a while until it reaches EOC.

The patch:

- Take trigger out from channel 1 EOR
- On channel 1 set Rise and Fall both to ~ 11am and vari-reponse to linear
- Hit cycle button of channel 1
- Patch OR output to Rise CV Input of channel 1
- Set channels 2, 3 and 4 attenuverters to 12pm
- Set channel 1 attenuverter to ~ 3pm until you hear 1 beat / sec (this is a bit finicky; this will be the minimum bpm)
- On channel 4 set Rise to minimum and Fall to maximum, vari-response to linear, set channel 4 attenuverter to ~ 3pm, and hit the cycle button of channel 4. It now starts at ~ 2 beats / sec and slowly ramps up to ~ 1 beat / sec

Needed to take the Fall rather than the Rise of channel 4 to control the slow rampup of speed of channel 1's Rise. At this point it did kind of work, except that the fall cycle reached the 1 bps in about 40 seconds, and finished the cycle in 1:15. To extend the rampup to 5 minutes:

- Patch channel 3 output to the Both CV Input of channel 4, and set channel 3 attenuverter to ~ 10:30.

Patching channel 3 output to the Fall CV input didn't quite work out, because the Fall CV input is linear, and therefor it still ended too quickly. The Both CV input is exponential and therefor it can be extended to minutes. At least, that's how I understand it now after playing with both.

The result is that it now starts with 2 beats / sec, and after 5 minutes it arrives at 1 beat / sec, and the cycle ends at about 6:15.

This is actually the first time I dived this deep into Maths. Amazing this could all be achieved with just 1 module. My appreciation for Maths has taken off. :)


IMG_187900.jpg
Cool, thanks for taking the time to write this down. I find especially this bit clever: "So I went for the OR output, ensuring a minimum voltage for the rise time, and then have channel 4 overshoot that minimum (into the negative territory) for a while until it reaches EOC."

I had an "add on" idea that might or might not work or be useful to you: Take the signals from the unity outputs of channel one and four and use them to subtly modulate some parameters of your choice in the patch. This way, the filter cutoff or FM amount or the probability of something or whatever you want is modulated in relation to the speeding up and slowing down of the triggers. (Just an idea, though. Have not tried it.)

johnleonne
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by johnleonne » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:30 am

yhf wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:46 am
I had an "add on" idea that might or might not work or be useful to you: Take the signals from the unity outputs of channel one and four and use them to subtly modulate some parameters of your choice in the patch. This way, the filter cutoff or FM amount or the probability of something or whatever you want is modulated in relation to the speeding up and slowing down of the triggers. (Just an idea, though. Have not tried it.)
Thanks for the idea! I did send the unity output of channel 1 to FM two other oscillators, works very well. Sending the EOR trigger to a BIA and the Clep Diaz, and using the BOC of Clep Diaz to increase the LPF of one of the oscillators to temporarily let higher frequencies through. BIA is going into a stereo feedback processor, so that each "beat" is repeated. Channel 4 is only a very slowly falling slope, so I have not been using that output, but now that you mention it, you've given me the idea to perhaps slowly open a low-pass gate more as channel 4 is falling, so that faster hitting percussive sounds become a bit louder, just as in the natural world. Can't wait to try, must go home... !

yhf
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by yhf » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:41 am

Glad to be of help. I had a similar idea recently that I haven't tried yet. Basically an "excited drummer" patch where tempo, volume, hihat decay (and maybe more parameters) are modulated in relation to each other.

rhflame
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by rhflame » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:04 am

Dopfer a-160-5 would be the module id recommend

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moremagic
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Re: Synthesizing slow increase in trigger speed

Post by moremagic » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:31 pm

if you need it to hold at the top, why not just send a gate / high voltage to the processing input of the control channel? you could just dial ⬆️ the unused offset channel to start the ramp

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