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[Closed] Ian Fritz 4U panels & PCBs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author [Closed] Ian Fritz 4U panels & PCBs
appliancide
The total price for panel one and the associated PCBs is $279. The price for panel two and the associated PCBs is $314. The total price for both sets is $593.
_____________________________________________________________

These are satin finish .090" Metalphoto panels.

Paypal is akin.paul {at} gmail.

Here is the final price list for the panels and PCBs:

Shipping for up to 4 panels and associated PCBs - $10 in the US and $25 for the rest of the world. $7 US and $15 international for PCB only shipping (no panels or rails).






Panel One:
MPC panel - $90
DD slider PCB - $35
DD core PCB - $30
Teezer PCB - $40
Wavolver II PCB - $22
Threeler PCB - $25
5Pulser PCB - $15
Dual 2Q4Q/4-in mixer PCB - $22






Panel Two:

MPC panel - $90
Teezer PCB - $40
2x 4x4 PCB @22 each - $44
ChaQuO PCB - $25
Dual TGTSH PCB - $16
All-In Env PCB - $20
Chaotica PCB - $35
2x Dual 2Q4Q/4-in mixer PCB @22 each - $44


____________________________________________________________

The new PCBs are available to anyone that wants them, whether or not you are buying panels.
_____________________________________________________________


Shipped:


LX: Panel one + all PCBs
PraxisCat: both panels + all PCBs
Skorn: both panels + all PCBs + 2x CGS91
mandzaro: panel two, 2x 4x4, 2x 2Q/4Q, Chaotica + CGS91
notimeforlove: both panels + all PCBs except Teezers
nangu: 4x both panels + all PCBs (minus 1ea Teezer, 5-P, All-In, Threeler and ChaQuo) + 10x CGS91
DJBRUTAL: both panels + DD slider/core, Wavolver, 3x 2Q4Q, 2x 4x4, Chaotica
oldenjon: panel two, 3x 2Q4Q, 2x 4x4. All-In, TGTSH, ChaQuo
hems: both panels + all PCBs
sideman-chris: both panels + all PCBs + 2x CGS91
jaidee: panel one + all PCBs + CGS91
mothertongue: both panels + all PCBs
DomMorley: panel one + all PCBs + CGS91
davidschwan1: both panels + all PCBs
modintx: both panels + all PCBs + 2x CGS91
bookends: panel one + all PCBs
frozenkore: both panels + all new PCBs
monstrinho: both panels + all PCBs + 3x CGS91
ear ear: both panels + all PCBs + 2x CGS91
furanku: both panels + all PCBs
krisp14u: both panels + all PCBs
magman: both panels + all PCBs + 2x CGS91
elmegil: Wavolver, 5pulser & Chaotica PCBs
nordlead: 2q4q PCB
msprigings: 2x Teezer, TGTSH, Threeler, 2Q4Q, 2x 4x4, Wavolver II PCBs
fluxmonkey: 2x slider PCBs, 2x core PCBs

_____________________________________________________________



Original Post:_________________________________________________

I have been talking with Ian about designing some 4U panels for his designs, and he is into it! thumbs up

It's really the perfect time for his designs to be offered in the Serge/4U format. Serge, Ken and Dmitri are killing it, and the overlapping chaos research of Ian and andrewF should allow for crude weather prediction patches*.

Anyway, the module selection and panel design are not going to be terribly democratic. I am going to try to use PCBs that Elby and Bridechamber keep in stock, but may be open to having some new ones made to offer one of his designs that are not currently available to DIYers. The initial goal is: two panels, focused on Ian's designs, that will form a more or less "complete" (like that ever happens...) synthesizer. I will be asking for feedback, and starting a poll or two for certain things.

The first of those polls is about the DoubleDeka, which will part of the first panel. The slider PCB that Bridechamber currently stocks is 6.625"/168.275mm X 4"/101.6mm. If we use it as is, it will be very close to the top and bottom of the panel. You would have to notch the BUD/Hammond box to fit the panel. The other way to use it as is, would be to orient it 90 degrees, so you would be drawing the two waveforms from top to bottom, which seems wonky to me. Finally, of course, a new slider PCB design to better fit the 4U format might be an option as well. What do you think?

Any comments/suggestions/criticism is welcome at any point in this process.

* untested
CJ Miller
I am down! I had been planning on designing some Fritz panels myself, but been too busy. And I was also going to start with Doubledeka!

Re: the slider PCBs, I had considered the options and was going to do my own board, or even fly the wires. This enables using longer travel pots across the front of the boat. The Bridechamber slider board is ideal for cramming it into 5U, but doesn't bring any advantages otherwise. Also, I was going to include a dedicated high-frequency clock output. It's too useful not to. I am probably in the minority, but LEDs are mostly irrelevant to me.

I like the work I've seen on your blog, and am interested to see what you will devise.
xpando
i would definitely be into an Ian Fritz 4U panel thumbs up

will look sweet with some 10 turns on the Jerkster and Double Well assuming you're going that route.
frijitz
Oh, something I forgot to mention. Laurie is working on a Euro DD, so using his boards would also be an option. He's using small sliders to get two rows, but it's not too hard to use.

Ian
dmitri
I want one! I'd use existing PCBs mounted parallel to the panel with stand offs.
er thats what i planned on doing grin Illuminated sliders FUG YEZ ! It's peanut butter jelly time!
appliancide
dmitri wrote:
I want one! I'd use existing PCBs mounted parallel to the panel with stand offs.
er thats what i planned on doing grin Illuminated sliders FUG YEZ ! It's peanut butter jelly time!


Most of the PCBs will be mounted to an L-bracket on hinged standoffs, similar to the BOCGS stuff, but the sliders are kind of a must have for this module.

There is at least one guy on youtube with illuminated sliders on a 5U DoubleDeka, and it looks fantastic. love Bourns has some 45mm and 60mm sliders that are pretty reasonably priced, and they have a nice feel. I just used the 45mm in this:

appliancide
CJ Miller wrote:
I was going to include a dedicated high-frequency clock output. It's too useful not to. I am probably in the minority, but LEDs are mostly irrelevant to me.


The LEDs bring no additional function to the table, this is true. Sliders are, in my humble opinion, classy with or without the blinkenlights. Could be there's a footprint that would allow for both options as well. I'll look into it further depending on what the people want.

I will bring the HF output to the panel for sure.
appliancide
frijitz wrote:
Oh, something I forgot to mention. Laurie is working on a Euro DD, so using his boards would also be an option. He's using small sliders to get two rows, but it's not too hard to use.

Ian


I don't think I can edit the poll now that there are votes, but if anyone feels strongly about waiting for Laurie's PCBs with the small slider footprint (or any other options I may have missed) , say so and I will consider that along with the poll results.

Now that I think about it, while I don't like the idea of using sliders quite that small on this panel, Laurie's version would be just the stuff for using the DD as a modulator hmmm..... We'll have to see what he comes up with...
fluxmonkey
i have been trying solve this problem for a couple of years, so am very glad to hear you're tackling it. i voted for the new PCB option without leds, but the led version would be equally welcome.
when i first started trying to figure this out i was focused on fitting into a serge format, but the recent boom in buchla panels and boards has me focusing more on that recently. i actually think the DD would be a better match for the buchla sound. so if the slider carrier board could be made 4u but otherwise "format agnostic", that would be a wonderful thing.

b
appliancide
The early consensus seems to favor a new design, presumably to avoid having to trim the edge of the enclosure that the panel attaches to. I just sent Scott a message to see if he would be willing to offer the DD PCBs without the slider PCBs.

Meanwhile, I will start on the first panel design with the goal of fitting it to the Bud AC-423 without the need for trimming anything or having to drill mounting holes.

Also...Bridechamber is having a 20% off sale for another 24 hours. The two panels I am designing will use at least one of each of Ian's circuits that Bridechamber carries. Obviously hold off on the DD, until that is figured out though. It will be a some time before these panels materialize, but everyone likes a sale right?
appliancide
I have been doing some research, and it looks like TT/BI offers a series of sliders where the LED version and the non-LED (dual-gang) version have the same footprint. I am buying a few to check them out. If they work out, the same slider PCB will be able to be used for illuminated or non-illuminated sliders. The other nice thing about them is that they seem to be stocked with or without a dust cover.

I have started on the panel, and it looks like the best option for slider length is going to be 45mm, which will allow for the slider PCB to be about 5.5"/140mm tall.
appliancide
fluxmonkey wrote:
i actually think the DD would be a better match for the buchla sound. so if the slider carrier board could be made 4u but otherwise "format agnostic", that would be a wonderful thing.

b


I get where you are coming from, but I think the DD is a good fit for any format. The circuit itself will work on +/-12v or +/-15v, and the slider PCB will mount to the panel using the mounting holes on the sliders. Whatever you guys are doing to adapt other non-buchla circuits should work with the DD.
appliancide
First test fitting... man, 4U panels are always so small when you see them (or something the same size) right in front of you! When I watch videos of them, my brain just ignores all of obvious the visual clues and see them as bigger. Probably I'm just dumb, but thankfully am under feline supervision:



edit: Ian does not currently offer a VCA PCB, so I am leaning towards either the MFOS or the MegaOhm boards. Do any of you have a different VCA you'd like to see included on the first panel....CGS, L-1, something I haven't thought of? The plan is to have VCAs on both panels, so I could use different boards for each one to mix things up as well. Ian, do you think there is a perfect VCA for use with your stuff?
xpando
L-1 could be nice..
lordofthebored
The MegaOhm has so many build options, it's practically a tool box of functions. This seems to be in spirit with 4U and would compliment the Fritz designs rather well.
frijitz
appliancide wrote:
Ian, do you think there is a perfect VCA for use with your stuff?

I tend to not be fussy about VCAs -- my system has mostly standard OTA designs. One cool little circuit I developed a long time ago was a switchable 2Q/4Q multiplier, which can be used as either a VCA or a RM. Maybe that would fit in with your system?

Ian
xpando
frijitz wrote:
appliancide wrote:
Ian, do you think there is a perfect VCA for use with your stuff?

I tend to not be fussy about VCAs -- my system has mostly standard OTA designs. One cool little circuit I developed a long time ago was a switchable 2Q/4Q multiplier, which can be used as either a VCA or a RM. Maybe that would fit in with your system?

Ian


this would get my vote now in the spirit of keeping this to as many of ian's designs as possible.
appliancide
frijitz wrote:
One cool little circuit I developed a long time ago was a switchable 2Q/4Q multiplier, which can be used as either a VCA or a RM. Maybe that would fit in with your system?

Ian


Absolutely it would thumbs up I think a couple of those and a couple of the MegaOhm VCAs would compliment each other and the project perfectly.

Also, good news from Scott at Bridechamber. He is supportive of the project, will sell the DD voice boards without the slider boards, AND will carry the 4U slider boards if that's what ends up working the best.
oldenjon
I'm stoked for this. I know it's still early, but what other designs are you thinking about including on the panels?
Dego
Looking forward to see the panel design for this smile
msprigings
Ians VCA/RM sounds excellent
appliancide
oldenjon wrote:
I'm stoked for this. I know it's still early, but what other designs are you thinking about including on the panels?


I'm waiting on the boards from Elby and some 5Pulsers that I forgot to order on my first Bridechamber order (both should be here within the next couple of days) to see how everything will best fit together, but the project goals are:

1. first two panels will will provide the "typical" building blocks of a synthesizer

2. the overall project (3-4 panels) will use most or all of the PCBs that Bridechamber and Elby currently offer, plus a circuit or two from Ian's vaults

I'm almost finished with the first panel. For sure it will have DD, Threeler, Teezer, 5Pulser, Dual 2Q/4Q multiplier (VCA,RM). There is enough space for one more module (or two if they only take up one column) on the first panel. I am debating on what to add to finish it off, but I should have it figured out in the next couple of days. I want to get a prototype ordered by Friday if I can swing it.
thermionicjunky
appliancide wrote:


I'm almost finished with the first panel. For sure it will have DD, Threeler, Teezer, 5Pulser, Dual 2Q/4Q multiplier (VCA,RM). There is enough space for one more module (or two if they only take up one column) on the first panel. I am debating on what to add to finish it off, but I should have it figured out in the next couple of days. I want to get a prototype ordered by Friday if I can swing it.


I think that this panel needs a modulation VCO for the Teezer if the point is for it to be self-contained. A second Teezer may be overkill but perhaps Ian's regular sawtooth core with waveshapers added? Might have to leave off cv attenuators to make room for tri and sine outputs.
appliancide
Quote:
Ians VCA/RM sounds excellent


I am excited about it! A fully decked out pair takes up two columns, which is what the first panel will feature. Later panels will use simplified versions of the circuit, depending on the overall layout.

Quote:
I think that this panel needs a modulation VCO for the Teezer if the point is for it to be self-contained. A second Teezer may be overkill but perhaps Ian's regular sawtooth core with waveshapers added? Might have to leave off cv attenuators to make room for tri and sine outputs.


The first panel is pretty much done, except for labeling/graphics. The self-contained goal is for a two panel system, so I will definitely consider adding (at least) a third VCO to the second panel. I personally would love to try Ian's multiphase VCO...

On this panel, I consider the DD and the Teezer to be modulation VCOs for each other. Also, the Threeler will oscillate from ~.4Hz - 43KHz, so that's another VCO option if you wanted to focus more on FM than on subtractive style synthesis.
xpando
appliancide wrote:
I'm almost finished with the first panel. For sure it will have DD, Threeler, Teezer, 5Pulser, Dual 2Q/4Q multiplier (VCA,RM).


this system is going to sound so good SlayerBadger!

cant wait to see the panel designs.
appliancide
First panel is 95% done. I just need to add a bit more text, change the big knob on the Teezer to "initial" and triple-check all of my hole sizes. I've been shooting for ordering a prototype by Friday of this week, and I'm on schedule so far... thumbs up

Final module selection is: DoubleDeka, Teezer, 5Pulser, Threeler, All-In EG, Dual Multiplier and a mixer.

xpando
great job on that. thats a great looking panel! applause hurry up and take my money.. Never maintain cash savings again

when you say you are going to add a bit more text, does that mean you are planning to add the names of the modules to each section or VCO, VCF, ect?
frozenkore
Very nice indeed!
tojpeters
I would prefer Serge or best of CGS style graphics and the names of the modules included. Also would rather see INV MIX. I will probably pass on this one.
appliancide
xpando wrote:
when you say you are going to add a bit more text, does that mean you are planning to add the names of the modules to each section or VCO, VCF, ect?


Yes. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it, since I didn't stick with vertical columns for all of the modules. I will use Ian's module names because they are fun to say and sound a bit dirty.
monstrinho
Just one question. If you're planning on a slider daughterboard for the Double Deka, why not go all the way and do one big daughterboard for all of the front panel components for the entire panel? I know it would increase the final cost of the project, but I would be very happy to pay for the convenience of not having to wire everything up!!
fluxmonkey
nice selection of modules... personally, i'd rather include the ChaQuO (quad lfo + chaos = awesome), but not sure what i'd trade out. also (again, personal pref), i'd rather have the consistent vertical separation of modules... but again, that's me.

most exciting to me, tho, is the carrier board for the dodeca sliders... and just confirming, that board will be just for the sliders, right? so it can be reused behind other 4u panel designs, without locking in placement of any of the other panel jacks/control?

booya!
dmitri
I'll take two please!
Shaping up real nice !!
Guinness ftw!
appliancide
monstrinho wrote:
Just one question. If you're planning on a slider daughterboard for the Double Deka, why not go all the way and do one big daughterboard for all of the front panel components for the entire panel? I know it would increase the final cost of the project, but I would be very happy to pay for the convenience of not having to wire everything up!!


That's beyond the scope of this panel, but could happen on a future panel. The Elby boards don't have mounting holes, so something will need to be figured out to make those work. I'm probably in the minority, but I've come to enjoy panel wiring as much as stuffing boards.
appliancide
fluxmonkey wrote:
nice selection of modules... personally, i'd rather include the ChaQuO (quad lfo + chaos = awesome), but not sure what i'd trade out. also (again, personal pref), i'd rather have the consistent vertical separation of modules... but again, that's me.


It's tough deciding which modules go where. The ChaQuO will for sure be on the second panel though, as it is one of the modules that got me interested in Ian's designs in the first place.

I tried arranging everything vertically at first, but this really seemed like the best way to fit everything together.

Maybe a little thing, but I managed to position a few jacks to allow common connections to be made with shorting plugs:

Teezer saw out to 5Pulser input
Multiplier outs to Mixer inputs
Envelope out to Multiplier 2 Y input
All-In Mono out to Gate/Trig input (this connection is made on the PCB with R22, which can be left off the board to allow the comparator and AD/AR sections to be used independently of each other)


Quote:
most exciting to me, tho, is the carrier board for the dodeca sliders... and just confirming, that board will be just for the sliders, right? so it can be reused behind other 4u panel designs, without locking in placement of any of the other panel jacks/control?

booya!


Yes! Ian is working on the new slider board as we speak. I will have enough made to cover panel orders, plus some extras. After that, I will most likely give the Gerbers to Scott, so they will be available from Bridechamber.

I chose a 45mm TT/BI slider, as they are reasonably priced and seem just as nice as comparable sliders from Bourns and Alpha. Plus, they make a non-illuminated version with the same footprint, for those not wanting the blinkenlights. I have to do some datasheet digging, but there may be footprint-compatible options from Bourns, Alpha, etc as well.
appliancide


Elby boards for Chaotica, 4x4 AD/AR and Wavolver. As you can probably see, the main boards have no mounting holes and they are too deep to mount the way they are intended to be mounted in euro modules.

I really want to include at least the 4x4 and Wavolver on the second panel.
This thread has some good ideas for mounting PCBS without mounting holes.

Options:
- use as is, securing the PCBs using one of the methods in the above link (may be a bit more difficult, but adds no delays to project and Laurie could surely be talked into just selling us the main boards)
- make new boards with mounting holes (could take some time/push possible new PCB releases back)
- make panel PCBs compatible with the Elby boards to eliminate most of the wiring (probably going to cost a bit more/push back possible new PCB releases)
dmitri
look inside an old serge or photos. the extruded channel that they used to do the panel rack system could be used the same way just spaced for these pcbs...

er just designate some good places to poke a dremel
appliancide
dmitri wrote:
look inside an old serge or photos. the extruded channel that they used to do the panel rack system could be used the same way just spaced for these pcbs...

er just designate some good places to poke a dremel


These will use the PCB frame method as well. The bigger Bridechamber boards are all 5.63" tall, so the vertical part of the frame will be based on that dimension. Come to think of it, a little strip of aluminum (or anything rigid and the correct size) could be mounted vertically, and we could use those little clips to hold the PCBs to that.

The dremel idea could very well work also. It looks there are a few areas on the PCBs with no signals being routed through that we could drill for mounting.
appliancide
It's about 99% done now. I added mounting holes and labeling. I also rearranged the Teezer a bit based on feedback from Ian. I still have to add his name, but that's about it.



The "coarse" and "initial" pots on the Teezer should be cermet or, as depicted in this mock-up, 10-turn. Those holes in the panel will be drilled for the 3/8" bushing size common to multiturn and cermet pots. The build docs for the other modules do not call for special pots, but if anyone would like to see mounting holes for the higher quality pots in any of the other positions, say so now or forever hold on to your pieces.

edit: spelling oops
andrewF
looks very good thumbs up
dmitri
slap an el-camino on thur ! er a chaos trace ? lil drawing of a Stealth Controller ?
Dont mind me im buying two any way !

Wait are we going to build stealth controllers after this ?
appliancide
I don't know that Ian has a personal connection to el-caminos, but a chaos trace could be good. I'll troll Ian's site for some images to steal hihi

Google tells me that a stealth controller is either a video game controller or a DJ mixer, so I'm gonna have to say absolutely?
monstrinho
What are the options for the octave selection pots on the Double Deka and the mode selector on the Threeler? I'm guessing those need to be a specific part, or not?
xpando
chaos trace SlayerBadger!

i think it might look better if the names were all in floating boxes like the DD and the 2Q/4Q. not sure if that'll work on all the modules but i like that look a little better.
appliancide
andrewF wrote:
looks very good thumbs up


Thanks man! Looking forward to introducing the prototype and your CA panel when they've both been built.
appliancide
monstrinho wrote:
What are the options for the octave selection pots on the Double Deka and the mode selector on the Threeler? I'm guessing those need to be a specific part, or not?


This and this are both good options. Any other 2 pole, 30 degree throw, non-shorting contact, 3/8" bushing rotaries should work. The Threeler needs 4 throws and the DD needs 6. The switches in the two links above are adjustable, and will work with both circuits.
appliancide
xpando wrote:
chaos trace SlayerBadger!

i think it might look better if the names were all in floating boxes like the DD and the 2Q/4Q. not sure if that'll work on all the modules but i like that look a little better.


No promises on the chaos trace, but I'll try it this weekend.

The names were bugging me as well, so here's one more:

ear ear
Definitely better with the floating names - more distinctive. Good effort! thumbs up Chaos trace would also be ace. If you want some constructive criticism: you might want to do something with the names of the controls along the top of the 5Pulser, and the floating names for the 5Pulser, All-in EG and the Mixer are a bit small. Don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with panel text abutting or being partially obscured by jacks, pots, screws..... Serge/STS panels are like that. Just some thoughts - looking good!
xpando
much better i think thumbs up the only other thing aesthetially that keeps catching my eye is the upside down "mix out". its the only text thats upside down so it almost looks out of place. maybe "mix out A, mix out B"?
appliancide
It's the inverted mix out, hence the inverted text.
frijitz
Looks great! Just a couple of picky suggestions. How about slightly thicker lines between the modules, to distinguish from the lines between the jax and pots? How about moving the three upper labels in the 5Pulser to below the controls -- this would be consistent with the other labels in that module and it would prevent confusion with the labels on the next module above.

PCB layout for the 2Q/4Q multiplier plus mixer is nearly done!

Ian
appliancide
Stronger delineation , 5Pulser labels moved, other text moved from shared borders, module names all same size (except for the DD of course), no more upside down words...I think that's most of the requests?



frijitz wrote:


PCB layout for the 2Q/4Q multiplier plus mixer is nearly done!

Ian



It's peanut butter jelly time!
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:
Stronger delineation , 5Pulser labels moved, other text moved from shared borders, module names all same size (except for the DD of course), no more upside down words...I think that's most of the requests?



It's peanut butter jelly time!


Looks great! For sone reason, though, "FREQUENCY" on the Threeler came out as "QUENCY".
xpando
shaping up and looking good. here is another idea. not a request.. just throwing out an idea. i've always liked the rounded corners on each box on the ASM-1 panel graphics. this might work well on this panel also.
appliancide
I believe that's a glitch from the bitmap export function of Inkscape. It has also intermittently been smashing the "mono out" and "bank b out" text on some of the versions I've posted.
tojpeters
The doubledeka also says quency. I'm having trouble making out the labels for the switch next to the sync input- looks like harm and aharm ? I like the bolder lines.
appliancide
Same panel, different render...text made it, black jacks now squared off...close enough!

fluxmonkey
xpando--great thought! this would make a killer companion to my ASM1, which i haven't pulled out in way too long... +1 for rounded corners
ear ear
Sawtooth symbol on the Teezer isn't quite as thick as the sine and triangle. Looking good! thumbs up
appliancide
I like the ASM1 panel as well, but I decided against the rounded boxes early on because I wanted this to be visually distinct from Serge and other existing panels.

Sawtooth symbol is another rendering glitch.
appliancide
No graphics and the alignment was just eyeballed, but I wanted to see if people think this potential Chaotica layout for the second panel would be too cramped:



I would also like to provide a FM buddy for the Teezer on the second panel.
Would you prefer:

- a second Teezer
- VC Multiphase Oscillator
- one or two of Ian's more basic VCO designs
frijitz
appliancide wrote:
I would also like to provide a FM buddy for the Teezer on the second panel.
Would you prefer:

- a second Teezer
- VC Multiphase Oscillator
- one or two of Ian's more basic VCO designs

I think it's a good idea for it to have a Sin output. With the DD you can draw a pseudo-Sin, but it's not perfect and it's a pain to set all the sliders just right. The multiphase VCO is intended mainly for CV applications (eg, wave scanning) and doesn't go too high in frequency (5kHz?). So my recommendation is a second Teezer. My u-tube page has a couple videos with two Teezers, so have a listen if you want to get some idea of what they can do:
http://www.youtube.com/user/frijitz001

The layout for the dual 2Q/4Q plus 3-in mixer is finished, and I'll get it sent off for some quick prototypes, hopefully this week. There is lots of panel wiring, so I'll try to make time to draw up a panel wiring diagram also.

Ian
appliancide
Oh yes, I have been watching the videos, combing your site ,AND the postman just dropped a few boxes of papers off that I'm told you may have contributed to once or twice!

Second Teezer sounds good to me. I believe I've figured out a way to get it to fit in two columns, so I may be able to make the vertical column crowd a bit happier with the second panel.

I assume the 2Q/4Q could be hard-wired as VCAs to save panel space?
appliancide
Prototype #1 has been ordered. Rockin' Banana!
Once I get it built, I will see if people are happy, or have concerns. Then, assuming enough interest for a run, you can laugh at the fact that you got a panel for a quarter of what it cost the guy who designed it! I have done some experiments with electro-etching to reduce prototyping costs (and because it looks cool), but I'm not going to cut 20 slots in anything that isn't a pie.

No opinions on the potential chaotica layout? Would the switches and middle jack be ok where they are, or would they be better/more ergonomic in between two horizontal columns like the LED? Or is it just too much for two vertical columns?
xpando
i think the switches should be positioned like the LED. a small switch might be hard to flip in between the jacks like that.
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:


No opinions on the potential chaotica layout? Would the switches and middle jack be ok where they are, or would they be better/more ergonomic in between two horizontal columns like the LED? Or is it just too much for two vertical columns?


I think it really pushes the ergonomics to the absolute limit. It looks OK as a rendering, but I'm imagining it fully patched, and my guess is it would be really difficult to use in its current form. That said, it's difficult to critique it on its own without seeing the rest of the modules on the panel. If I knew what the other modules were, it would be easier to see what alternative layouts might look like. I'm not sure why people are concerned about fitting everything into vertical columns (unless that's OCD, but that's another story altogether). This isn't a Serge, so why be concerned with making it look exactly like a Serge? I think it might be better to stretch it out a little and give it some room to breath.
appliancide
monstrinho wrote:
I think it really pushes the ergonomics to the absolute limit. It looks OK as a rendering, but I'm imagining it fully patched, and my guess is it would be really difficult to use in its current form.


Thanks for the feedback. I think I will stretch it out a bit more to let it breathe. The tentative module selection for panel 2 should leave me some wiggle room to fit everything together.

Quote:
This isn't a Serge, so why be concerned with making it look exactly like a Serge? I think it might be better to stretch it out a little and give it some room to breath.


A Serge lookalike is something I wanted to avoid. Having said that, I am also doing my best to balance my personal style with feedback/suggestions from others interested in building the panels.
appliancide
Some questions on the second panel...

Would you rather see another fully featured dual 2Q/4Q like the one on panel one, or would you like to see a quad unit hard-wired for VCA only operation (signal in, cv in, bias pot, signal out)?

Do you prefer the Teezer (or any module that may appear on both panels) on this panel to have the same layout as the one on the first panel, or does that not matter to you?

Due to the size and layout of the Elby PCBs, I do not think I will be able to use more than two on a panel without adding unnecessary difficulty to the build. Given the choice between Chaotica, 4x4, and Wavolver, which TWO would you prefer be on panel two? Feel free to pick one of them to appear twice, or none of them, if that is your preference.

Nothing is set in stone, but here are the modules I am fairly sure will be on panel 2:
ChaQuO, Teezer, Dual TGTSH, 1 or 2 All-In, 1 or 2 dual 2Q/4Q, and 2 of the Elby boards

Ideas for future panels:

Timbre Tantrum - As many of Ian's wave-shaping circuits and filters that can be fit on one panel
Scanner - Multiphase VCO + 8 VCAs
Chaos Theory - As many of of Ian's chaos circuits that can be fit on one panel
xpando
i say why not have another 2Q/4Q? but, personally, from a diy standpoint i dont want to build some of the same circuits again on the second panel. i would rather continue on to a new panel with a completely different configuration of Ian's modules so it'll be more like working through all of Ian circuits in series.

and my OCD votes for modules having the same layout through out. i think it'll will look better in the end for people who have multiple panels from this project. plus, visually it will be less confusing when you dont have different layouts for the same module/functions.

Chaotica and Wavolver would get my vote.

i really want the Timbre Tantrum now. and Chaos Theory is the one i've been expecting and the one i'll be anticipating the most.
ear ear
More VCAs would be good.

Same layout across multiple panels.

Chaotica and Wavolver.

Two All-in EGs would be good.
dmitri
Im loving where this is headed !!
WTF? Protype panel ?!
Just etch one or send me the art nextime 8_)

* Edit on second thought * unless it has Sliders ! very frustrating
appliancide
xpando wrote:
i say why not have another 2Q/4Q? but, personally, from a diy standpoint i dont want to build some of the same circuits again on the second panel. i would rather continue on to a new panel with a completely different configuration of Ian's modules so it'll be more like working through all of Ian circuits in series.


My thought is that with 4 2Q/4Q, most people would be most likely be using at least 2 of them as a VCA at any given time. Building them as 2Q/VCA only would allow me to have 4 instead of two on the second panel.

When it comes to duplicate circuits, a pair of Teezers is too powerful to resist. Besides the Teezer, there will inevitably be some repeats on the different panels. We are working with two envelope designs and one VCA design, and a well-rounded synth of any size will have several of each.

The "more or less complete synth in two panels" is still one of the main goals with the panels I am so creatively calling "panel one" and "panel two". Having said that, the second panel doesn't HAVE to be the second panel I actually make. If enough people wanted one of the more focused panels to be the next panel available after the first one, I would be open to that.
appliancide
dmitri wrote:
Im loving where this is headed !!
WTF? Protype panel ?!
Just etch one or send me the art nextime 8_)

* Edit on second thought * unless it has Sliders ! very frustrating


I will try etching the second panel, or sending the art to you if I fail. lol We will leave the sliders to the pros though. I did just send a copy of the first panel art to Julian aka the Beast to see if he could do better than FPE on stuff with sliders. I've never ordered from him, and have heard great things, so I thought I would check it out.

FPE can be expensive, but their service has been great! About a month ago I lost a bunch of stuff because of a hard drive failure (basically everything I had done in 2013). They sent me copies of all the files I had ordered from them within a few hours of me asking.

Do you use P&P or magazine paper?
dmitri
still using the blue and am embarrased as shit about the Probotix V90 CNC machine i dropped $1000- on & built but never bought a spindle for. i live in an apt/ was kind of crazy for buying in the first place.
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:
Some questions on the second panel...

Would you rather see another fully featured dual 2Q/4Q like the one on panel one, or would you like to see a quad unit hard-wired for VCA only operation (signal in, cv in, bias pot, signal out)?

Do you prefer the Teezer (or any module that may appear on both panels) on this panel to have the same layout as the one on the first panel, or does that not matter to you?

Due to the size and layout of the Elby PCBs, I do not think I will be able to use more than two on a panel without adding unnecessary difficulty to the build. Given the choice between Chaotica, 4x4, and Wavolver, which TWO would you prefer be on panel two? Feel free to pick one of them to appear twice, or none of them, if that is your preference.

Nothing is set in stone, but here are the modules I am fairly sure will be on panel 2:
ChaQuO, Teezer, Dual TGTSH, 1 or 2 All-In, 1 or 2 dual 2Q/4Q, and 2 of the Elby boards


I'd vote for a Quad VCA on the second panel (unless there's some hidden patching magic in the 2Q/4Q that I'm missing). I'd also like to see the Teezer layout stay the same on the second panel. It really would be a little strange (not to mention confusing) to see the same module laid out differently on the two panels. It's difficult to pick just two from the modules you've listed, but I'd have to go with the Wavolver and the 4x4. For me it's a tossup between the Chaotica and the 4x4, but the 4x4 wins out because I think the two Teezers really need more modulation sources (and it would go well with the Quad VCA). I assume the Chaotica will show up on the Chaos Theory panel in any case, right?
frijitz
Here are the schematics and board layout for the dual 2Q4Q module, as of right now, anyway. It's a bit wider than the board it was derived from. Does it need more mounting holes? Anything else?

Ian

edit: revised figures to include (optional)extra mixer input
appliancide
monstrinho wrote:
It's difficult to pick just two from the modules you've listed, but I'd have to go with the Wavolver and the 4x4. For me it's a tossup between the Chaotica and the 4x4, but the 4x4 wins out because I think the two Teezers really need more modulation sources (and it would go well with the Quad VCA). I assume the Chaotica will show up on the Chaos Theory panel in any case, right?


The Chaotica will be on the Chaos Theory panel for sure. All three of the circuits that are exclusive to Laurie at the moment look to be equally awesome, so they will be on future panels if they don't make it onto panel 2.

Ian, that looks great. Such a cool little circuit! I don't see anything I would change, anyone else? I think 2 holes will be fine for mounting.
appliancide
Panel one will be able to be assembled much like the Serge kits, using the hinged frame method for mounting the PCBs:



Even with just 2 of the Elby boards, I am having trouble fitting all of the PCBs for panel 2 in the same way, without stacking them. Now I'm considering using the frame method for the Bridechamber PCBs, and mounting the Elby PCBs to the bottom of the Bud enclosure using one of the methods described here. Would that put anyone off building it? Besides maybe making the wiring a bit more difficult, I don't think there would be any real disadvantage to it.

edit: another way to mount PCBs with no holes:
http://www.richco-inc.com/products/circuit-board-hardware/97-circuit-b oard-hardware-catalog.html?PartNum=&country=RICHCOUSA&grpcode=A1850
dmitri
applause applause applause for the Panel Rack System !
No offense but i think i would rather build an 'apartment complex' behind the panel ( PCBs mounted tiered using a bunch of stand offs placed all over the panel ) than to wire into the boat.

May be at least one of the elby boards can be mounted almost as intended ? & others tiered over those ?
frijitz
I have revised the board layout (and two figures posted above) to allow a fourth input to the mixer. I hope this will be more generally useful for future projects. It's use is totally optional, of course -- just leave out the added resistor (Rx6a).

Ian
appliancide
Here is my first attempt at panel two:

xpando
i dont see anything i'd want changed. looks good to me thumbs up
numan7
we're not worthy beautiful work, appliancide!

i think i just might have to build one...

cheers
appliancide
Thanks guys! I do see one little rendering glitch on the bottom All-In (I will conquer you yet Inkscape), but that won't be on the actual panels.

Ian thinks that patching the the jacks together on the 4x4 will work the same as the switches I left off, but I will test it to make sure. There is room for them if need be.
J3RK
appliancide wrote:
Here is my first attempt at panel two:



This looks like an incredibly fun panel!!!!

I'm pretty wrapped up in projects right now, but this is SERIOUSLY tempting me!

Nice work!

This is fun! w00t
monstrinho
What's the 1/4" jack on the 4x4??
appliancide
monstrinho wrote:
What's the 1/4" jack on the 4x4??


It's supposed to be a push button. I guess I can't brag about drawing my own parts yet? help
appliancide
J3RK wrote:

This looks like an incredibly fun panel!!!!

I'm pretty wrapped up in projects right now, but this is SERIOUSLY tempting me!

Nice work!

This is fun! w00t


Thanks!

I think this banana business is going to be fun nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana!
GrantB
appliancide wrote:
monstrinho wrote:
What's the 1/4" jack on the 4x4??


It's supposed to be a push button. I guess I can't brag about drawing my own parts yet? help


The rounded corners on the nut are a nice touch, but most of us put the nut on the other side of the panel hihi
appliancide
Now with hidden nut:

xpando
appliancide wrote:
Now with hidden nut:


squirrel'd SlayerBadger!
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:


Ian thinks that patching the the jacks together on the 4x4 will work the same as the switches I left off, but I will test it to make sure. There is room for them if need be.


I guess I'd prefer to have the switches there, especially the "Cycle" switch. As a performance option, being able to toggle cycle on and off can be very useful. Definitely something I think I'd miss. Also, just personal taste, but the push button seems massive!!
dmitri
You guys picking on the homey's Button ROFL !

It looks friggin great !!! ill buy two of each !!

appliancide
xpando wrote:


squirrel'd SlayerBadger!


This is especially funny to me because of how many bad nut puns I backspaced over before posting that comment! I will put the switches on the 4x4. I just have to move things around a bit. I will probably post it later today or tomorrow.

The button is the same one that NV uses on his euro Klee. They are really nice and not too big:

monstrinho
appliancide wrote:

The button is the same one that NV uses on his euro Klee. They are really nice and not too big:


With the other components for comparison it looks about the perfect size. I'm with Dmitri, I may need two of both of these panels. Ian's designs are amazing, but I don't know if I would have ever gotten around to building them without someone doing the hard work of putting something like this together. Looks great. applause
xpando
monstrinho wrote:
Ian's designs are amazing, but I don't know if I would have ever gotten around to building them without someone doing the hard work of putting something like this together.


i agree. i have some of Ians chaos pcb's already but putting his work into 4U panels like this is a great idea. thanks for putting in the time on these Paul. fun project Guinness ftw!
appliancide
Rearranged the 4x4 a bit to fit the switches...

frijitz
I finished building out one of the new boards for the 2Q/4Q multiplier this weekend. I checked out the 4Q multiplier performance by putting a Sin wave into both inputs, which produces a Sin at twice the frequency. Carrier rejection was 44 dB and the second harmonic component was down 39 dB. I compared these numbers to what I got from my old 595-based design. This had 42 dB carrier rejection, second harmonic at only 29 dB down and a third harmonic down 43 dB. It's a nice clean sound from a fairly simple circuit -- hope everyone likes it!

Ian
appliancide
I'm looking forward to checking it out!

I should have the first panel here tomorrow. I need to build the rest of my euro backlog to get it out of my way and raise some banana funds, but I should at least have a BOM ready by the end of the week.

I'm calling my company "Uglysound Electronics", and these panels will be my first products. I am working with someone to have a logo designed, so the actual panel runs will have that instead of the speaker-headed dog.
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:

I'm calling my company "Uglysound Electronics", and these panels will be my first products. I am working with someone to have a logo designed, so the actual panel runs will have that instead of the speaker-headed dog.


Actually, I quite like the speaker-headed dog!! lol
appliancide
I like it too, we'll see what happens.



The 8-Way Santa, or Scan & Pan, is the VC Multiphase VCO and a whole bunch of 2Q/4Q multiplier boards (4 in the middle and however many it takes to realize the stereo mixer... 2 or 3?). This is what happens when I can't sleep...



I'm not sure 20 people (or whatever it takes to get a decent deal at MPC) would be into it, but I might have to make one for myself.
xpando
that looks like a good time to me hihi

when will we get a sneak peak of the chaos theory and timbre tantrum layouts? SlayerBadger!
appliancide
I have started on both of them. I am waiting on Ian's feedback on the task-focused panels, but here is what I have so far:

The chaos panel has the ChaQuO, Chaotica, Double Well, Jerkster and one or two of the dual TGTSH. The Cyclic Chaos and Traveling-Wave concepts would be a good fit, as would a couple more TGTSH boards. I go back and forth on putting a Threeler on there, since it can be coaxed into some nonlinear behavior.

The timbre panel has the 5Pulser, Threeler and Wavolver. Ideally it would also have the SNICster, Double Pulser, Analog XOR and possibly a couple of VCOs or CV sources.
Microscopial
Paul how do we go about getting all the pcbs bro and a deal could be done nudge nudge cheers ross
xpando
Microscopial wrote:
Paul how do we go about getting all the pcbs bro and a deal could be done nudge nudge cheers ross

+1 for deals thumbs up

i cant wait for the chaos panel. Cyclic Chaos and Travelling Wave.. yes and yes! i'll be doing that and panel #2 for sure..
appliancide
I am hoping Ross is referring to a possible trade hmmm..... twisted I'm sure we can figure something out... Guinness ftw!

Most of the PCBs are available through Bridechamber and Elby. They both stock parts kits as well, so that's a nice bonus!

Gerbers are ready for the 2Q/4Q and Ian has sent me some test boards that I should get soon. The new slider board isn't giving him too much trouble so that should be along shortly as well.

I will give Scott at Bridechamber first crack at any new PCBs as this project progesses. Anything he doesn't carry, I will have made and sell/send them at the same time as the panels.
appliancide
I got the prototype 2Q/4Q PCBs in mail today! I also bolted up the panel parts to show how the panel looks when it's done



There should be enough room to use 16mm pots everywhere, if that's what you have.



I need to drill the mounting holes for the pcbs and standoffs, then stuff and wire it up. I will start on the right side of the panel and work my way left.
I sold all of my euro VCAs, so this is the perfect place to start!





3/4" chicken heads will look a lot better than the ones in the pictures, but I put the bigger ones on there to show the panel.




My mounting holes were off from the box just a hair, so I need to move those just a bit before the panel run. I had to add small holes for the scale dials on the 10-turn pots to work correctly. If you didn't want to use scale dials, you could just use a knob big enough to cover the extra hole. That's about the worst of it, so this one is almost ready for prime time!
xpando
looks good! LED sliders and 10 turns nanners
monstrinho
Paul,

Just a suggestion, but it might be really helpful to anyone doing these builds if you could photograph your wiring for each module as you go along. Wiring is where I tend to make mistakes, and nine times out of ten just looking at a photo of it done correctly makes the mistake immediately obvious. Looking at the front panel components already tells me I'll need to pay very close attention to get everything right on this!!
appliancide
I will do that. When you break it down into the individual modules, it won't be bad.

The actual panels will only need 8 mounting holes total for the slider section. I guess that is what Doug does on his gorgeous SSL version of the DD, and it is rock solid.

Unless there any objections, I am going to move the mounting holes to utilize Ken's mounting rails on these panels. It beats the hassle of hacking up and drilling aluminum brackets, AND it sorts the power distribution at the same time.
appliancide
Just spoke with Ken briefly, and it looks like I will be able to ship the mounting rails with the panels like Dmitri is doing! It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana!

Sawing aluminum L channel sucks. It sounds dentist-y, and nobody should have to do it! Dead Banana zombie

Things are coming together nicely, so I expect to be taking orders for the first two panels in a few weeks. I will wait until I have one of each of the first two panels built to to nail down final numbers, but if you are sure you want one or both of them, feel free to let me know, and I will start a tally in the first post. thumbs up

Also, we should have final measurements on the slider PCBs soon. If you are interested in JUST the DoubleDeka with the new slider PCBs, for use in your own project, Buchla or otherwise, please post your interest, so we can make sure enough will be ordered.

Same with the dual 2Q/4Q PCBs. Panel one requires 1 and panel two requires 2. These are the same length as most of the Bridechamber boards, and should be usable in any format. Please let us know how many of these should be ordered.
ear ear
One of each panel, and the necessary boards and rails, please! hyper
appliancide
I updated the first post to keep track of interest in the panels and PCBs. Let me know if I got anything wrong, or if you want something changed.

If you are getting a panel and DON'T want the CGS91 boards, please let me know. Otherwise I will assume that you want one set for every panel that you order.

The PCBs that have to be made will be provided by Ian or myself, with the goal of shipping them at the same time as the panels.

The Chaos, Timbre and Scanner concepts are progressing nicely, though I don't have anything new to show off quite yet.
Microscopial
I think by this time next year I can cover a whole wall in my living room with 4u panels. But it will be convincing my wife that its art that may be the challenge lol
appliancide
Microscopial wrote:
I think by this time next year I can cover a whole wall in my living room with 4u panels. But it will be convincing my wife that its art that may be the challenge lol


It might work....until you want to patch it. Dead Banana
fluxmonkey
appliancide wrote:
Also, we should have final measurements on the slider PCBs soon. If you are interested in JUST the DoubleDeka with the new slider PCBs, for use in your own project, Buchla or otherwise, please post your interest, so we can make sure enough will be ordered.


2 sets of just boards for me, please
frozenkore
One set each panel please.
appliancide


The All-In is wired up, and so is the mixer. I will finish wiring the 2Q/4Q tomorrow and test and calibrate it before starting on the Teezer.

I will take a more detailed sequence of photos when I build the second prototypes of each panel, as they will be a lot closer to the metalphoto panels that people will be building.





Probably makes sense to have that on the Chaos panel!
mono-poly
I'd beup gor a set for both panels
appliancide
I am going back and forth between a few projects right now, but things are progressing nicely. I'm finding myself making lots of small changes on the first two panels to line everything up and make sure the drill holes are all correct, but nothing major has come up, so I'm hoping the second prototypes will be perfect, or at least close.

I will also be posting my first attempt at the proposed Timbre Tantrum panel in the next few days.

On the Chaos Theory panel, Ian recommended leaving the Double-Well and Jerkster off, as they are the more primitive versions of the Chaotica and ChaQuO. The previously mentioned cyclic system is huge and fiddly, so that will not be a focus either. The MegaCycler and Traveling-Wave circuits will most likely be developed for this panel.

If people really want a Chaos themed panel with the currently available boards, I can offer a "Chaos Collector" panel. This would have Chaotica, ChaQuO, Double-Well, Jerkster, 2x Dual TGTSH, Threeler and Teezer.
rosch
edit:

i'd like 1x the complete set (panel 1+2 + pcbs)
thanks
tojpeters
tojpeters wrote:
this is the main reason i'm not getting involved with the ian fritz 4hp panels on offer. maybe i'll get my boards,possibly there might be building docs. even if this kind of post didn't come up regularly i don't order boards without looking over the docs first. only ordered once, boards came no docs,and only designators on the board. how do you deal with that- stuff random resistors in the board and hope?


I posted about concerns re: bride chamber spotty service. Paul responded as follows. I thought I would bring this over to this thread. ----------------------------------------------- Why didn't you post this concern in my thread? I seem to remember what you did post was a criticism of the graphics, citing them as the reason you wouldn't buy a panel. If anyone else is concerned about this aspect of my project, please post your concerns in that thread or send me a PM.

I personally guarantee that everyone ordering panels from me will get all of the necessary PCBs and documents, even if it means I have to get them made and send them out myself.
_________________
Paul very kind offer. and i don't care for the graphics- font is too small for my old eyes. but if an order from me would be enough to reach whatever number you need to make it happen i'll do it. might order anyway,waiting to see the price before i commit. I do appreciate your effort.
appliancide
I will take some pictures of the individual modules to show the readability of the labeling. Let me know if there is a spot that you want a close-up of. I did change the spacing between the panel controls and lettering a bit, to distance the labeling from the borders just a hair more.

Does anyone else share tojpeters' concern about ordering from Bridechamber? I have never had a problem with my orders, and Scott has been supporting the DIY scene for years now, but if this is an issue for you, please let me know.
CJ Miller
Nice to see how these are coming along. Uglysound indeed! I like the dog... lol

I was originally hoping to buy a panel or two, but now I don't think I will. My finances are really tight now. Also I have spent enough money on blank panels for my projects that I really can't justify getting more panels.

What I am probably going to do instead is make a one-off panel myself for the older PCBs I bought directly from Ian long ago - Double Well, Jerkster, and TGTSH - and hopefully buy a few PCBs for AD/AR and 2Q/4Q. This gets me a nice panel of Ian's interesting modules for now. And hopefully I can do my own (rather different) panel with VCOs, Threeler, etc., once other projects are completed.

Scanning over the thread, I haven't seen any prices mentioned. But if there is any possibility that I might be able to reserve a few each AD/AR and 2Q/4Q, I would be grateful. If that's too much bother, I understand; I don't want to over-complicate the group buy.
appliancide
Not sure which AD/AR you mean, but the All-In is already available from Bridechamber, and the 4x4 from Elby.

The 2Q/4Q PCBs will be available to anyone thumbs up They are too cool and useful to constrict to this panel project. Who will sell the new PCBs, as well as pricing, timing and some other details are still being worked out, but I will post that information here.

Expressing interest at this point doesn't require a firm commitment. I'm just trying to get a rough idea of the numbers for everything.
CJ Miller
appliancide wrote:
Not sure which AD/AR you mean, but the All-In is already available from Bridechamber, and the 4x4 from Elby.


Now that you mention it, I'm not sure, either! I remember the circuit from browsing Ian's site, but I never compared the boards offered by Bridechamber and Elby. I assume that these are variations on the same circuit. The Elby sounds like it might have extra comparators for the EOE and EOP triggers. Also, I am guessing that they both use PCB mounted pots, even though neither say what the spacings are. Guess I need to investigate further.
oldenjon
I'm interested in:
1x Panel two
2x 2Q4Q PCBs
appliancide
I just wired up the 2Q/4Q and it works great! I hope my 3280s get here soon, so I can finish this panel!
monstrinho
Just a thought; do you think the Multi-Phase Oscillator might be useful as part of either the Chaos Theory or Timbre panel? It seems like it would be very useful as a modulation source and/or sound source on either of those panels. From the reading I've been doing on Ian's circuits, I could imagine some very interesting patches if it were included on the Timbre panel. I'm not certain if there would be enough space for it on either panel or not, but just thought I'd raise the possibility of it.
appliancide
The Multiphase VCO practically begs for 8 VCAs, which is what inspired the 8-Way Santa panel. I am not opposed to trying to fit it on the Chaos Theory panel, though I believe it should be featured on a more task-specific "scanner" panel.
appliancide
Here is my first attempt at the Timbre Tantrum panel:



The triangle VCOs, SNICsters and Analog XORs do not exist as PCBs at the moment, but they could if people were interested.

The Chaos Theory panel is still in the works, as it will also feature a couple of new PCBs, and I don't know what the panel controls will be for those yet.

If people are interested in the Chaos Collector panel, which would only feature currently available PCBs, let me know and I'll work on it. Otherwise, I will assume people want to wait for the Chaos Theory panel and PCBs to be developed.
ear ear
Are you going to make that Multiply panel? I'd be keen! smile
appliancide
ear ear wrote:
Are you going to make that Multiply panel? I'd be keen! smile


I would like to make it or something like it. Neither Ian or I can really picture what it would sound like with the multipliers set to 4Q!

I'm debating having another go at it with simplified VCA versions of the multipliers, like on panel two. That would leave a bit of room to possibly add a simple filter or resonator to each channel.
xpando
the Timbre Tantrum's gonna be sweet!

and i would definitely prefer to wait for the Chaos Theory panel. i think everyone who's onboard so far will be kept busy with the panels you've got in the works already, so no need to rush anything.

that being said...
whats the ETA on the Timbre Tantrum panels?! twisted
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:

The triangle VCOs, SNICsters and Analog XORs do not exist as PCBs at the moment, but they could if people were interested.



That looks amazing!! I'd be up for one of these, but hopefully it will see the light a little bit further down the line so that I can swing it financially. I'm amazed at how quickly you've come up with these and how great they look. You must be an Inkscape ninja by now!! we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
monstrinho
Just one question; are there any rare or difficult to source parts needed for any of these PCBs? I haven't had time to go through all of the BOMs and build docs. Just wondering if there's anything unusual needed.
appliancide
I would say that any panels beyond the first two will be a couple/few months out, since PCBs will need to be designed and manufactured.

The VCOs on the Timbre panel are Ian's Triangle VCO from his website. I put those on the panel because they provide the triangle and sawtooth waves that his wave-shaping circuits like to chew on.

Having said that, I know from this thread over at e-m that the Megacycler requires two TZ triangle VCOs under the hood, and the Travelling-Wave requires one as well. So maybe a couple of those would be a good candidates for the Timbre Tantrum VCOs.

I've been reading through the information at both of those links, so I have a pretty good idea of what the new chaos circuits will require for panel controls.

I also had an idea for a companion panel to the "Multiply" panel called the Decider. It would be 8 TGTSH, 8 All-In, 8 DC voltage sources, and whatever logic could be fit in the remaining panel space. That pair of panels would form the most complex 8-step sequencer ever! I get a little seasick just thinking about the possibilities. zombie
appliancide
I will get a BOM together for the first two panels pretty soon. Easiest would probably be to try to get the parts kits from Bridechamber, but I have no idea of what kind of stock he has of that stuff, so we will plan on him not having any of it, just to gather the information for this project. I will update the first post as the information comes together.

3280s are in a couple of the modules. It might be worth trying to do a group buy for those as some point. Any volunteers? LM3914 are obsolete, but they can still be easily found.

In general, Ian specifies premium opamps and transistor pairs fairly often. Not hard to find, but they tend to cost a bit more.
ear ear
appliancide wrote:
I also had an idea for a companion panel to the "Multiply" panel called the Decider. It would be 8 TGTSH, 8 All-In, 8 DC voltage sources, and whatever logic could be fit in the remaining panel space. That pair of panels would form the most complex 8-step sequencer ever! I get a little seasick just thinking about the possibilities. zombie


Do it!!! hyper Dead Banana

That would also be a companion for any chaos panels....
krisp14u
Im interested in one set of both panels and any needed PCB's to go with them
xpando
appliancide wrote:
I also had an idea for a companion panel to the "Multiply" panel called the Decider. It would be 8 TGTSH, 8 All-In, 8 DC voltage sources, and whatever logic could be fit in the remaining panel space. That pair of panels would form the most complex 8-step sequencer ever! I get a little seasick just thinking about the possibilities. zombie

i guess i should start planning on eating nothing but top ramen for awhile Never maintain cash savings again Never maintain cash savings again
V/Oct
Hello!

glad to have found this thread. i'd be into 2Q4Q PCBs. i have some of Ian's other stuff in my modular in 5u, a pair of jerksters, 5pulsers, tgtsh's, double dwell... i love them all, very charactheristic beasts. grin

just posting to have a first post, i was lurking quite a while, and to be able to find my way back here. grin
also excuse my bad english m not native. grin

rob
appliancide
V/Oct wrote:
Hello!

glad to have found this thread. i'd be into 2Q4Q PCBs. i have some of Ian's other stuff in my modular in 5u, a pair of jerksters, 5pulsers, tgtsh's, double dwell... i love them all, very charactheristic beasts. grin

just posting to have a first post, i was lurking quite a while, and to be able to find my way back here. grin
also excuse my bad english m not native. grin

rob


Welcome Rob w00t Your english is way better than my "any language besides english". We are an international community, and I would rather see people type with an accent than not participate!

It sounds like you have a pretty nice system going there. Hopefully you post some pics in the gloat thread!

How many 2Q/4Q PCBs would you like?
bubblesound
thanks for doing this project. i'll take one of each panel.
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:
3280s are in a couple of the modules. It might be worth trying to do a group buy for those as some point. Any volunteers? LM3914 are obsolete, but they can still be easily found.


I really wish I had the time to devote to planning and executing a group buy, but I've just got too much going on for the next month or so. I've looked around and apart from UTSOURCE and other ebay sellers, I don't see anyone with the 3280 in stock. Does anyone have a line on a supplier with a larger quantity of them available?
appliancide
I was wrong about the LM3914, they are still in production thumbs up

I just received a bunch of parts today, including some 3280s from utsource, so I will be able to say whether or not they are a still a good source soon. That also means I have almost everything I need to finish the first panel! Most of the boards are 90% stuffed, and I hope to wire up and test the Teezer and Threeler tomorrow.

ear ear has kindly volunteered to tackle group buys on harder to find parts, which is probably worth looking into for the 3280s, and maybe some matched transistor pairs (PNP and NPN)...
appliancide
I wired the Teezer up today and it worked straight away, so the utsource 3280s are good, at least the batch I just got thumbs up

I've built a few of Ian's circuits, but this is my first Teezer. It's a lot of fun! Also, for such a big board, it is an easy build, probably as easy as any VCO I've built, even the calibration.

I messed with it for 45 minutes or so after firing it up the first time, just watching the scope while I FM'd it back and forth over zero, before finally settling down and calibrating it.

I was hoping to get the 5Pulser and Threeler wired up today, but I ran out of steam after the TZ party.
V/Oct
Thanks for the welcome Appliancide! i'd like 2 boards...

appliancide wrote:


I was hoping to get the 5Pulser and Threeler wired up today, but I ran out of steam after the TZ party.


5Pulser is soo wicked... i love that thing.
you can use it to mangle a clock signal too...
msprigings
In for 2 2Q/4Q PCBs
nordlead
This is a great project applause

In for 2 2Q/4Q PCBs

not sure if I have time and space to do a full panel, though (have to build a WAD panel before..!).

As far as the design is concerned, I think it makes a lot of sense not to get too close to Serge/STS, however what i'm having difficulties to adjust to is text running (too close) into the border lines - I'd rather see some margin/padding between the text and those lines...
appliancide
xpando
appliancide
I need to step up my video capabilities...

A couple of weeks back, I had a hard drive failure (second one in less than a year....external drive now always connected) and lost some stuff. Luckily, I didn't lose much progress on the first two panels, and the rest should be easy to recreate when the time comes.

I've made a few minor changes to the first two panels. I will post the newest versions of the panels this week, and ask for some feedback on the changes.

Ian just finished a new 4x4 layout that will match the size of the other boards, and have mounting holes. Because of this, I have developed a version of the second panel that has two 4x4s and one All-In instead of the other way around. I'll post the new and old version.

Sorry for the delay, but we are back on track now. Pictures soon
frijitz
I've been slowed down by some personal stuff, but I have the new 4x4 board stuffed and am ready to hook up all the I/O. The board is an extension of the old All-In board.

Ian

appliancide wrote:
I need to step up my video capabilities...

A couple of weeks back, I had a hard drive failure (second one in less than a year....external drive now always connected) and lost some stuff. Luckily, I didn't lose much progress on the first two panels, and the rest should be easy to recreate when the time comes.

I've made a few minor changes to the first two panels. I will post the newest versions of the panels this week, and ask for some feedback on the changes.

Ian just finished a new 4x4 layout that will match the size of the other boards, and have mounting holes. Because of this, I have developed a version of the second panel that has two 4x4s and one All-In instead of the other way around. I'll post the new and old version.

Sorry for the delay, but we are back on track now. Pictures soon
xpando
sorry to hear about the minor set backs. personally, i dont mind the delays.

Paul, you have been blazing through this so fast you were probably way ahead of schedule anyways. Guinness ftw!
appliancide
Inkscape is contributing its usual glitches, but here is my latest attempt at panel 2:



I reversed the signal flow on the top part of the All-In to match the bottom. I had an idea about using the two halves separately, but the 4x4 is actually designed to be used like that.

The mixer was an experiment in density. Another idea I had would be the three inputs with attenuators, mix out, and an unlabeled jack that could be the inverted mix or an aux input.

It needs work. The right side is really dense, while the Chaotica has room to spare.
appliancide
Some updates...

Still wondering if anybody likes the newest version of panel 2, or if everyone wants the original design.

All of the new PCBs (slider board, 2Q/4Q, and 4x4 - officially called All-In Plus to distinguish it from the Elby boards) are designed and tested. I'm also looking into the possibility of a run of Chaotica boards that are the same format as the other boards.

Dmitri has mailed out the latest batch of Serge panels and CGS mounting boards, so I will know if the mounting rails will work for this project sometime this week.

The official logo of Uglysound Electronics is ready:



I may still leave the dog on these panels, because people seem to like speaker-headed dogs. In that case, "Uglysound" will be replaced by the new logo.

I feel like I am forgetting something.
oldenjon
Personally I'd rather have Ian devote his time to the designs that don't yet have PCBs (TZ triangle VCO, Travelling-Wave, SNICster, etc.) before a redesign of the Chaotica PCB It's motherfucking bacon yo But that's just me hmmm......... seeing as the Chaos Theory panel is still a ways off (?), it probably makes more sense to work on the Chaotica first. In fact, I still haven't worked out how I'm going to fit mine in and it's even larger than the Elby PCB.
magman
Time for me to jump on this project as well. One of each panel and the requisite PCB's please and I prefer the later design for Panel 2.

Regards

Magman
ear ear
Speaker-headed dog good (as is new logo), and panel two good. thumbs up

edit: meant the second version, though admittedly the dual 4x4 is a bit cramped. Extreme right end of the panel is better.
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:
Some updates...

Still wondering if anybody likes the newest version of panel 2, or if everyone wants the original design.



I really prefer the first version of panel #2. It feels like you struck the right balance of form and function. The second version feels very crowded to me, and I imagine patched up would be more so. I could live with version 2, but the first version is definitely better, IMHO.
appliancide
oldenjon wrote:
Personally I'd rather have Ian devote his time to the designs that don't yet have PCBs (TZ triangle VCO, Travelling-Wave, SNICster, etc.) before a redesign of the Chaotica PCB It's motherfucking bacon yo But that's just me hmmm......... seeing as the Chaos Theory panel is still a ways off (?), it probably makes more sense to work on the Chaotica first. In fact, I still haven't worked out how I'm going to fit mine in and it's even larger than the Elby PCB.


The only reason I consider this option is that the PCB design for the 5U format Chaotica is already done. I am building my prototype of the first version of panel 2 with the Elby versions of the Chaotica and 4x4, so I should be able to offer some build ideas for whatever combination of PCBs that people end up using.
appliancide
Ian just informed me that the old Chaotica PCB layout is not the same format as the other PCBs, so we will stick with the Elby boards for that.
appliancide
I hate to bump this thread just to delay the project again, but it is very important to me to not take money until I know that I can deliver without delay once people have paid. My wife and I are moving back to California next month. w00t

This WILL happen though. I promise that. This stuff is way too cool to not expand into the 4U world!
xpando
no problem waiting here..

where are you moving? Norcal or Socal?
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:
I hate to bump this thread just to delay the project again, but it is very important to me to not take money until I know that I can deliver without delay once people have paid. My wife and I are moving back to California next month. w00t

This WILL happen though. I promise that. This stuff is way too cool to not expand into the 4U world!


Good luck with the move, and thanks for keeping us posted. I'm seriously amazed at how fast you put everything together, so if it takes a few more months to tweak the final details, the wait is definitely worth it. I'm sure Ian has a lot on his plate with the boards for these panels as well.
appliancide
We are moving to San Francisco. That's where my wife grew up, and where we met. It's very exciting!

Ian has actually caught up with me. Slider board, 4x4 and 2Q/4Q are all ready for production!

Now that I have some CGS91 mounting rails, I can say that they should work great for this project.
PraxisCat
Just kind of counting myself in, I would be interested in one of each panel, and the associated necessary PCBs. I know it would be a huge undertaking, but well...these look like the most brilliant 4u/serge style panels I have ever seen.

This looks beautiful!
appliancide
PraxisCat wrote:
Just kind of counting myself in, I would be interested in one of each panel, and the associated necessary PCBs. I know it would be a huge undertaking, but well...these look like the most brilliant 4u/serge style panels I have ever seen.

This looks beautiful!


First, thank you! All credit to Ian for the brilliant designs! we're not worthy

Any full panel is a fair bit of work, but these are not exceptionally difficult projects. I've built the first panel and most of the circuits that are on the second panel, and the adjustments and trimming to get the correct behavior for all of the modules are very straightforward. thumbs up
Mongo1
This looks pretty interesting! I'd be up for one of each. Do we know how much this will cost?

Gary
PraxisCat
Oh to add one thing, version B of panel 2 is my own preference. Dual AD/AR is a nice addition.
appliancide
Mongo1 wrote:
This looks pretty interesting! I'd be up for one of each. Do we know how much this will cost?

Gary


I'm not sure yet. I will keep them as close to COA's pricing as I can, since we seem to be close to the 20-25 piece range required for it. I suspect panel one will cost a bit more because of the slots for the sliders.
PraxisCat
I thought I would give this thread a bit of bump since there may be people interested who have not seen it, and these are beautiful panels.
notimeforlove
Sign me up for one of each panal and all associated pcbs. these look fantastic.
fluxmonkey
just a friendly bump to inquire after progress. for the PCBs, are you doing the production runs, or Laurie? i'm aching for a set of the doubledeka slider boards....


appliancide wrote:
We are moving to San Francisco. That's where my wife grew up, and where we met. It's very exciting!

Ian has actually caught up with me. Slider board, 4x4 and 2Q/4Q are all ready for production!

Now that I have some CGS91 mounting rails, I can say that they should work great for this project.
appliancide
Happy New Year everyone!

My wife and I are mostly settled in in SF, so I am ready to get back to work on this project.

I will order all of the new boards (which will now include a new PCB for the Wavolver) at the same time as the panels. Ian has the files ready for all of the new PCBs, so I just need to convert my files to the format that Metalphoto wants to get things rolling.
ear ear
Are you still planning on rearranging the Dual 4x4 AD/AR on panel 2? I reckon you could save eight spaces to get it into three columns: you've got two empty spaces where the push buttons are at the bottom, four LEDs that could go in betwen pots or jacks, and the four switches could be arranged in pairs, side-by-side in a single space, as in the multiplier or 5 Pulser switches on panel 1 - or on the Modcan A VCDO for that matter.
appliancide
The Chaotica PCB is probably the most challenging part of this build. Here is what I did:



That is super glue holding those in place. It has held up so far, but I am going to make sure the PCB is insulated from its surroundings before bolting into the box. I'll probably use a piece of plastic or some thin cardboard wrapped in electrical tape. You could even skip the standoffs, make an insulation sandwich for the PCB, and zip tie it to the bus/mounting boards.

Is everyone ok with having to make this no-mounting-hole PCB work? If people are worried about building this, I could use the Jerkster instead. It's the non-voltage-controlled precursor to the Chaotica, and it has mounting holes. The extra features on the Chaotica really expand the possibilities and are worth the extra hassle in my opinion, but I want this to be an enjoyable project for everyone.

The CGS rails work great for panel two! Even though a different version will probably be made, the PCB count and size are about the same for all three of the possible versions of panel two.

monstrinho
Is it possible to drill holes in the Chaotica PCB for the standoffs, or is there simply no room between the traces? If not, I'd probably use a piece of non-conductive anti-static foam as padding and zip tie it in place. Either way, I'd vote to keep the Chaotica. I really like the feature set of the two panels in their latest revisions.
ear ear
I agree with monstrinho.
appliancide
You could get a hole in that one corner, but there's not really another place you could do it without cutting traces.

I'm sure there's a few ways to tackle it, that is just what I decided to do. Maybe you could use stiff wire to tie all of the unused solder points to a piece of perfboard, and mount that? As long as it is less than 3" off the back of the panel and keeps the board from moving around or shorting against anything, it's a good solution.
frijitz
Ummm ... Remind me, why are you using the Elby board?

Ian
appliancide
Maybe it was the board size I was concerned about? Isn't it a different length than the other 5U boards? I guess as long as there are mounting holes, it could probably work.

I just looked up the size...5.3" x 4.5". It would be better if it was 5.63" long like the other ones, but it may be easier than using the Elby board?
frijitz
appliancide wrote:
Maybe it was the board size I was concerned about? Isn't it a different length than the other 5U boards? I guess as long as there are mounting holes, it could probably work.

I just looked up the size...5.3" x 4.5". It would be better if it was 5.63" long like the other ones, but it may be easier than using the Elby board?

Seems to me it would be simple to screw a strip of something to one of mounting holes to "extend" the board to the rail. I thought that was what you were planning on. Is there a problem I'm missing?

Ian
monstrinho
frijitz wrote:
appliancide wrote:
Maybe it was the board size I was concerned about? Isn't it a different length than the other 5U boards? I guess as long as there are mounting holes, it could probably work.

I just looked up the size...5.3" x 4.5". It would be better if it was 5.63" long like the other ones, but it may be easier than using the Elby board?

Seems to me it would be simple to screw a strip of something to one of mounting holes to "extend" the board to the rail. I thought that was what you were planning on. Is there a problem I'm missing?

Ian


I didn't know there were two versions of the board. Using the 5U board and Ian's "extender" idea seems like the easiest option. Pretty simple to use a piece of scrap pcb for that purpose. If needs be, even zip ties would do the job (since there are lots of places to loop them through on the CGS rails).
appliancide
Maybe I just misunderstood something during our conversation about which board to to use? I don't remember the exact reason now, but we will plan on using the big 5U boards instead of the Elby ones. Not only will they be easier to mount, but Elby's build docs assume you are going to use his pot and jack boards, and provide little extra information. If you have already purchased an Elby board, I can help you with the pinout of the headers, since they are not labeled.
mandzaro
I'd be up for panel no. 2

Cheers

Martin
fluxmonkey
not sure i'm clear on what panel designs are under consideration, but the existing 5u slider board is 6 5/8" tall, so it will not fit vertically in 4u. if you use it, you would have to rotate it 90 degrees, which is the one option in the poll with 0 votes; would probably be a deal-breaker for me.
frijitz
fluxmonkey wrote:
not sure i'm clear on what panel designs are under consideration, but the existing 5u slider board is 6 5/8" tall, so it will not fit vertically in 4u. if you use it, you would have to rotate it 90 degrees, which is the one option in the poll with 0 votes; would probably be a deal-breaker for me.

A new board has been built for this project. Please see earlier posts. It is 5.9 x 3.6 inches.

Ian
appliancide




Here is the final artwork for the first two panels. Please confirm your order total, and let me know if I missed you or have the wrong quantity listed. I hope to know pricing for everything soon.


edit: updated pictures to show small changes to graphics.
notimeforlove
beautiful, Love them. I'm not on the list, I want both panals and all associated PCBS you're offering. This will be a great place to stick my two Teezers
monstrinho
I've been stretching myself really thin lately, so I'm afraid I'll have to drop my order down to one of each panel instead of two. If you have extras later, I'll most likely pick the extra pair up then. They look really great! I'm glad the victrola-headed dog made the cut...
ear ear
Ah, very good! Guinness ftw!

I still want one of each panel and all the associated boards. CGS91 rails would be good, too.

Thanks for doing these! applause
appliancide
I just read through the whole thread again and updated the interest totals. There were a few that I had missed. I haven't updated the CGS91 totals yet.

From the post that started this thread:

"The initial goal is: two panels, focused on Ian's designs, that will form a more or less "complete" synthesizer. "

I think this goal has been met!
notimeforlove
sorry to be a pain, but cancel me from the CGS91 list, I don't need those, everything else is correct though, thanks
monstrinho
Please put me down for two sets of the CGS 91 rails as well, thanks! thumbs up
furanku
Please put me down for both panels and the required pcbs. I do not need any CGS91 rails.
davidschwan1
I new to this thread and I'm interested in one of each panel with PCB's and rails.
DJBRUTAL
Please put me down for one of each panel and the pcbs. No CGS91.
appliancide
I updated the pictures to show a couple of small changes I made to the artwork. Mostly I just used smaller lines to connect panel controls within the modules, and made some adjustments to the common elements of the two panels to make sure they matched.

I think I have everyone's totals updated now?
oldenjon
PM'd about panel 2
appliancide
Scale and alignment aren't perfect, but good enough to show the parts placement on the final versions of the panels...



appliancide
All that's left for me to do if get quotes on the PCBs, which is a new process for me, but so was dealing with MPC a couple weeks ago!

I have to double-check my numbers, but here's what panel pricing is looking like.

panel one - $85
panel two - $80

Shipping for up to 4 panels and associated PCBs - $10 in the US and $25 for international shipping.

Once I get PCB prices, I'll post them and set a deadline for orders/payments.
bookends
I'm interested in panel one and related pcbs if you could put me on the list please. Thanks! w00t
DomMorley
I'm also interested in Panel One and all related PCBs (including CGS91 if you're doing them).

Thanks thumbs up
appliancide
Quotes are in, time to pay!

If you haven't ordered PCBs from Bridechamber yet, you can get them from me to be shipped with your panels. Scott is sending me a bunch of PCBs to simplify the ordering and shipping process thumbs up

Prices for everything are now listed in the first post. Please read the instructions before sending your payments. I will update it as people pay and give me a final yes/no on having CGS91 rails shipped with the panels.
monstrinho
Excellent! Thanks for all the work you've done putting this together, and thanks for giving us a bit of lead time before the payment cutoff date. For the perpetually cash-strapped among us, this makes things a little easier.
frijitz
Just a reminder for anyone who is ordering boards separately that the 2Q4Q multiplier board is a dual board.

Great to see this moving along so nicely!

Ian
appliancide
frijitz wrote:
Just a reminder for anyone who is ordering boards separately that the 2Q4Q multiplier board is a dual board.


Good point! I've updated the first post to reflect this and the fact that the 4-input mixer is also on the same board. Such a flexible little board, I might have to design a panel for the euro builders...
appliancide
I've updated the first post with the most recent interest/paid list. If I have you down for something you don't want or need, don't worry too much about it. At this point that list is just to give Scott and I an idea of the PCBs we will need to have on hand to support this panel run. As long as you provide a list of what you are ordering when you pay, we will be good thumbs up

I plan on keeping extras of the new PCBs on hand, and Bridechamber will continue to sell the existing PCBs, so you do not have to order everything at once. The option to do so is for the convenience of all involved. The deadline is for the panel group buy, and to get in on the first batch of the new PCBs.
GryphonP3
I am interested in both panels + all pcbs
appliancide
Just over two weeks to go Rockin' Banana!

Early on I mentioned I was going to try to use some of the Elby euro boards (and I did use a couple on the prototypes). The boards I mentioned were the 4x4, Wavolver II and the Chaotica. If you bought any of these euro format boards for this project, shoot me a PM and I will make arrangements to exchange them for boards with mounting holes.

edit: clarifying offer a bit
appliancide
If you want the CGS91 boards sent with everything else, go ahead and pay Ken for them, and let him know that they are for the Ian Fritz panels. I'll shoot him an email to let him know what is going on. I need to order some stuff to build my COA #6, so I will wait until this order closes on the 21st, and have him send everyone's rails to me along with my order.
bookends
Sent you paypal and a pm for panel 1. Stoked. Thanks!
Cognizant
led sliders!
appliancide
bookends wrote:
Sent you paypal and a pm for panel 1. Stoked. Thanks!


And your name has thus been reddened. Is everyone waiting for the last minute to pay? I suppose that's normal. This is my first big group buy, so I can only guess at what "normal" is.

Thanks for the shitpost bump Cogs! Sorry about your account...
DJBRUTAL
appliancide wrote:
Is everyone waiting for the last minute to pay?


I get paid on the 20th, so I will pay then. thumbs up
monstrinho
Paid and pm'd.

Guinness ftw!
appliancide
I believe that I have the "paid" list up to date.

If anyone wants me to include non-LED sliders in the BOM, let me know. There should be some that will fit on the same footprint, though we will have to make sure that the 2nd potentiometer (pins where the LED pins would be) is not connected to anything. That should be as simple as leaving the LED resistor out, but I will double check that to make sure.
msprigings
Ordered PCBs (2x Teezer, 1x Threeler, 1x TGTSH, 1x dual 2Q/4Q, 1 Wavolver, 1x 4x4). Thanks Paul.
appliancide
I sent reminders to everyone that hasn't paid yet, except for a few of you have already told me when you are paying.
Skorn
I'm glad I found this thread before ordering has closed. I have lurked these forums for a while and have been planning on building some of Ian's cool designs. This packaged offering is too good to ignore... I'd like to order 1 Full Set(both Panels + all PCBs + Rails). Thanks.
appliancide
Welcome to Muffs and thanks for joining the group buy!
mandzaro
Sent you paypal for
Panel Two:

MPC panel
2x 4x4 PCB
Chaotica PCB
2x Dual 2Q4Q/4-in mixer PCB


Pair of Ken CGS91 - paid

Thanks

Martin
notimeforlove
OK, unless my math sucks I'm all paid up for:
Panel One, Panel Two, DD slider PCB, DD core PCB, Wavolver II PCB, Threeler PCB, 5Pulser PCB, 2x 4x4 PCB, ChaQuO PCB, Dual TGTSH PCB, All-In Env PCB, Chaotica PCB, & 3x Dual 2Q4Q/4-in mixer PCBs plus shipping to Colorado.

what's your expected time frame on these Paul?
appliancide
I'm hoping 6-8 weeks at the most, sooner if possible. The PCB place called me today asking if I had any questions, so they are eager to get started lol

MPC shouldn't be a problem either, they've seen the artwork, and didn't seem to have any issues. Probably depends on how busy they are. I'll start packing and shipping as soon as everything is here. I can't wait to see someone build one!
appliancide





It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners Rockin' Banana! nanners nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
appliancide
edit: sorted Rockin' Banana!
oldenjon
Payment Sent
appliancide
I believe the list is up to date. Even if nobody else jumps in, the numbers are there to make everything happen! Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!

I will be double-checking everything over the weekend and ordering on Monday. Huge thanks to all of you for supporting this project!
elmegil
Glad I spotted this, I'd like one each of the Wavolver, 5pulser and Chaotica PCBs....

PM me the payment info, and I'll take care of it immediately :-)

Thanks!
appliancide
Order is closed! Last chance to get CGS91 rails sent with your order. I am placing my order with Ken in about 10 hours.
appliancide
I have a few extras of each panel & PCB set coming. First come, first served, whether or not you've expressed interest previously. The first post has been edited to only show the paid orders.
appliancide
I emailed the individual build docs to everyone. A couple of emails bounced, so let me know if you haven't gotten docs yet.

First post is 100% up to date, including the CGS91 rails (which are already here). I still have a couple extras of each panel.
modintx
w00t w00t w00t

Thank you Paul, will you be helping us kids out with complete BOMs (CSV or Mouser format) for both panel PCBs? Or part #s and sources for some of the pretty unique panel items on these. Thanks for your consideration.

Guinness ftw!
appliancide
I will try to get something together, maybe a Mouser BOM, if I can. I assume most people buy their pots at Small Bear or Tayda?

The best deal I've found on the LED sliders was at Digikey, but I'll do some looking around. Any 45mm LED slider should work though.

I'll get to work...
modintx
Paul,

That is incredibly generous of you, truly, thank you so very much!! we're not worthy

Yup, I get my Pots at Small Bear.
davidschwan1
I didn't get the build docs.
msprigings
Didn't receive the build docs. Though I just ordered the PCBs. Wouldn't mind having a look either way.
appliancide
Could you guys PM me your email addresses? I used the emails tied to the paypal accounts in most cases. Thanks!
appliancide


First batch or PCBs, showed up today. 4x4x84! It's peanut butter jelly time!
modintx
^^^^^ w00t w00t w00t
bookends
sweet!
appliancide
While we wait for the PCBs and panels from this run, maybe we could talk about what comes next.

I am working on a couple of controller/sequencer panels featuring designs from different people, but I also think that there are still some cool panels to be made focusing on Ian's designs.

I know some of you have expressed interest in the "Timbre Tantrum" and "Chaos Theory" panels. These are still possible, but anything requiring new PCBs will be on the back burner for a while. Plus, the first two panels represent those concepts pretty well. Panel two has two full-featured chaos generators, and the rest of the modules are integral in using and controlling that chaos. In my opinion, Putting more chaos on one panel will start to detract from the overall usefulness of the panel. I am certainly open to discussion on this though.

Is there any interest in a single panel voice like others have offered/are offering? Other ideas I've posted before?
monstrinho
4U Klee!

Guinness ftw!

Seriously, If someone is adept at Eagle and could take the Euro Klee files and adapt the jack footprints for bananas, it would be monstrous. Include something like the Barton Dual Nice Quantizer or CLee quantizer and some clock dividing/sequential switching and it would be the perfect companion to the two Fritz panels.
oldenjon
Perosnally I'm not interested in a single voice panel. I'm all for the timbre tantrum idea though. There's plenty being offered there (VCOs, Waveshapers, VCF) already and with the addition of another 2q4q it would be enough to constitute a full voice (maybe with the ring mod configuration of panel one which would certainly be true to the timbre tantrum theme? Mr. Green). It would be lacking envelopes but panel 2 has that covered.

What about a controller for the panels? Ian has been working on a design for a ribbon controller. That would be a welcome addition to my system thumbs up
Yes it would involve new PCBs, but anything that doesn't would just be a rehashing of what you're already offering.

That's my two cents anyways
Isaiah
appliancide
Have the PCBs for these panel runs been redesigned to fit 4U more uniformly?
Do any of them match Ken Stone's PCB dimensions and mounting holes standards?
appliancide
Most of them are 5.63" instead of 6". Building a full panel of them is similar to building a Serge panel. Incorporating them into a panel with mostly 6" PCBs is also possible using fairly standard hardware. I recently did just that, using a 2Q/4Q PCB prototype for the two VCAs and mixer on the BOG panel:



People wouldn't build a Klee if they had to do the wiring? I don't see myself laying out a big panel PCB, but I would consider licensing NV's PCB, since it would not require many changes to make it suitable for 4U.

I have a few module ideas of my own that I would like to eventually offer PCBS for, so I am going to have to settle on a program and learn it. Having said that, there are at least a dozen projects that I would tackle before laying out a panel PCB for the Klee...my own ideas, Ian's unreleased stuff, format neutral Turing machine PCBs....
ear ear
That Decider idea you posted a while back would be awesome - extra-awesome if it had sliders... I recall Ian writing that he uses lots of TGTSH or All-in EGs to make the most of his chaos generators...? Is this correct? He's got six of them on the go in the patch at the bottom of this page. There are only two TGTSH on the panels you've done so far. As you suggest, more chaos might be overkill, but more "gears" to harness and apply the chaos would be great. Phil Megaohm is pretty unequivocal about the TGTSH in this thread:
megaohm wrote:
They were all super cool but I played with the TGTSH more hours than the other three combined. It's a great module and I can't recommend it highly enough!
monstrinho
appliancide wrote:


People wouldn't build a Klee if they had to do the wiring? I don't see myself laying out a big panel PCB, but I would consider licensing NV's PCB, since it would not require many changes to make it suitable for 4U.


Speaking for myself only, I wouldn't build a Klee without the front panel daughterboard. And yeah, that's exactly what I meant, NV's design is really close to perfect, no need to reinvent the wheel. I understand if you don't want to tackle it, but I really hope someone does do a port of it to 4U at some point.
modintx
I'm with you monstrinho - if the NV design could be translated / sold by NV to the 4U crowd etc it would be a happy day.

Any interest in chatting with NV on that Paul and then perhaps doing a seperate 4U Klee interest check?

Either way I'm looking forward to seeing your sequencer panels come to together and then building.

Cheers all.
CLee
monstrinho wrote:
Include something like the Barton Dual Nice Quantizer or CLee quantizer and some clock dividing/sequential switching and it would be the perfect companion to the two Fritz panels.


FYI... If you're interested, I'm currently working on a new layout of the 8Ch Quant. To build it without the LCD, using LEDs for scale select readout, it's a single 4X6 board. Still flywires to the panel but they're laid out for .1" connectors. The LCD is still a separate panel mounted PCB.

I'll be ordering test boards some time this week to confirm the new changes.
msprigings
CLee wrote:

FYI... If you're interested, I'm currently working on a new layout of the 8Ch Quant. To build it without the LCD, using LEDs for scale select readout, it's a single 4X6 board. Still flywires to the panel but they're laid out for .1" connectors. The LCD is still a separate panel mounted PCB.

I'll be ordering test boards some time this week to confirm the new changes.


The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense
jaidee
Panel A and associated PCBs ordered.
appliancide
I sent NV a message, so we will see what he says about letting us use his PCB. Otherwise, I'll start working on a perfboard layout lol

Back to Ian's designs, I have been thinking about the "decider" concept, but I'm trying to decide if it would make more sense to have a VCA paired with each envelope or tgtsh. So instead of 4 dual tgtsh and 8 all-in or 4x4, there would be 2 dual tgtsh, 4 envelopes, and 2 dual 2q/4q. I will work on a couple versions to see what I can fit together.

I will be sending out another round of build docs tomorrow. I am working on a spreadsheet and Mouser cart for each panel. I'll start a build thread soon, and post them there.
ear ear
That second option for the Decider panel sounds good. thumbs up
DomMorley
appliancide wrote:
I am working on a spreadsheet and Mouser cart for each panel.


Any chance you'll be doing these on a 'per PCB' basis as well as 'per panel'? Just for those of us that like to build slowly, and so not buy the whole kit at once.
appliancide
Some updates...

I started a build thread here.

DomMorley wrote:
appliancide wrote:
I am working on a spreadsheet and Mouser cart for each panel.


Any chance you'll be doing these on a 'per PCB' basis as well as 'per panel'? Just for those of us that like to build slowly, and so not buy the whole kit at once.


The BOMs have the parts listed by board, if you want to do it that way. I will not be doing individual Mouser carts for each board though.

I will not be offering a Klee, as NV is already working on adapting his boards to offer a 4U version nanners I will be updating the controller/sequencer thread when I have something new to show there, but the Appendage controller will definitely be on the next panel that I offer.

All of the PCBs are here, and the panels should be here in about 2 weeks. There was some miscommunication with MPC, or they would have been here by now.

I just sent out another batch of build docs, so I think that everyone should have them now? Please PM me if you haven't received them.
modintx
Thanks for the update Paul - good news on the Klee for 4U so appreciate you sharing that nugget - will keep an eye out for those.

I will start to live in build thread when panels arrive :-)

Guinness ftw!
fluxmonkey
appliancide wrote:
Some updates...


All of the PCBs are here, and the panels should be here in about 2 weeks. There was some miscommunication with MPC, or they would have been here by now.

I just sent out another batch of build docs, so I think that everyone should have them now? Please PM me if you haven't received them.


need build docs, for the doubledeca boards only. are you gonna send out the board-only orders now? or waiting for panes to do One Big Ship? kewl either way. thanks again, paul!

bbob
appliancide
Board-only orders went out today nanners

I just sent another round of docs out as well. I noticed that the 2Q/4Q docs are the older version that shows a 3-input mixer instead of 4, so keep that in mind if you are putting together your own BOM.
elmegil
SlayerBadger! w00t
appliancide
w00t

Rockin' Banana!
modintx
w00t applause
DomMorley
It's peanut butter jelly time!
elmegil
PCBs ordered without panels arrived today. Thanks again!!
appliancide
First batch of panels went out today. I expect to have them all shipped by Friday at the latest, probably sooner.
fluxmonkey
i believe the slide pots listed in the DoubleDeca BOM (Mouser # 312-619BF-10K) are incorrect for this build. Those appear to be 60mm travel pots, i believe the new pot board is laid out for 45mm illuminated pots. waiting for confirmation.

some nice pots, suitable for the old MOTM build, will soon be available on the DIY Parts Trading thread... d'oh!
appliancide
Shit, sorry man! d'oh!

The BOMs that went out for the DoubleDeka are for the MOTM version. I have the correct parts listed in the build thread. If nobody takes those 60mm from you by Friday, I will grab them. I still have a couple of the old slider boards around here somewhere.
fluxmonkey
no worries, paul. thanks again for doing this awesome project! i know how much effort is involved, anyone who does the work to make these things available to our community is a hero in my book.
davidschwan1
Panels and boards arrived today.
appliancide
That was fast! I knew I should have used UPS for your stuff hihi

I will have the remaining panels and PCBs in the mail tomorrow. I spent all day packing them up and filling out customs forms. It will be a huge relief to have this wrapped up!

edit: All paid orders have shipped! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!
I don't think all of the tracking numbers that I entered in paypal are trackable, but I like to keep everything updated there to appease the paypal demons.
bookends
Got mine. Thanks!!
hems
today i got the letter from parcelforce!

here goes £38.9 for receiving MY ASS IS BLEEDING

thumbs up applause nanners
hems
fluxmonkey wrote:
no worries, paul. thanks again for doing this awesome project! i know how much effort is involved, anyone who does the work to make these things available to our community is a hero in my book.


on mine too ( :

great work Paul !

Looking forward to play with the toys!

we must make a thread for sounds recorded with the toys !

grin
skander
Hello Paul,

Will you provide the building doc if I only bought the PCB sets without panels?
My plan is to build each module on individual 4U panel, so the doc will really help me with the wiring.

Thank you.
appliancide
I just sent them to your gmail address. Let me know if you don't get them.

I look forward to seeing your panel designs! I am working on a dual Teezer panel design. The Teezer boards are big, so a dual makes the most sense if you want to mount the boards parallel to your panels.
ear ear
Got my panels and boards! thumbs up hyper
skander
Whou! The PCBs arrived today, that was fast. applause

I agree with you Paul, some of the boards are really big, I think I will try to build 2 modules per small 4U panel with boards stack on top of each others.
I will post some photos as soon as I find a solution.

Thank you very much for the PCBs.

Skander.
ear ear
Can anyone tell me what the power draw is for these two panels?

thumbs up
PraxisCat
It is good to see this thread back.
hems
ear ear wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the power draw is for these two panels?

thumbs up


would be interested as well ( :
hems
Any recommendation for potentiometers ( i mean the knobs itself ) for Teezer?

The 10 turns one i got have 2 strips with numbers around the knob, but every time i finish turning it hard left or hard right, the numbers are in completely different position.

i'm i doing something wrong? haha

MY ASS IS BLEEDING
DomMorley
ear ear wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the power draw is for these two panels?


I've got the Panel One and am measuring 147mA on it.
oldenjon
hems wrote:

The 10 turns one i got have 2 strips with numbers around the knob, but every time i finish turning it hard left or hard right, the numbers are in completely different position.

i'm i doing something wrong? haha


seriously, i just don't get it Did you tighten the set screw down?
appliancide
hems wrote:
Any recommendation for potentiometers ( i mean the knobs itself ) for Teezer?

The 10 turns one i got have 2 strips with numbers around the knob, but every time i finish turning it hard left or hard right, the numbers are in completely different position.

i'm i doing something wrong? haha

MY ASS IS BLEEDING


These are the ones I designed the panel for. There is a little tab that fits into the small hole beneath the mounting hole for the pots. Other knobs may work, but I recommend checking the datasheets before buying them to make sure.
appliancide
DomMorley wrote:
ear ear wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the power draw is for these two panels?


I've got the Panel One and am measuring 147mA on it.


That is surprisingly low! Ian is officially a wizard.

Next time I build some, I will measure the current before they are sent out. I'm starting to be able to work more now that my baby's schedule is a little more predictable.
Bhang
Hello Paul,
Wondering if you have any of the 1st panel with PCB's available. Was also hoping I could take a look at the build doc for this one.
These look killer. I'm sure they sound even better.
frijitz
Here's a new video incorporating most of the panel 1 modules.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132938

Ian
Bhang
these sound fantastic! I'm wondering if you have ever made any distortion FX? One of my favorite effects is a fuzz with a starve feature to mimmick a dying battery. Sounds like bit reduction only m ore organic and random. I would love to have something like this for my modular setup.
Love your designs Ian!
thermionicjunky
Bhang wrote:
these sound fantastic! I'm wondering if you have ever made any distortion FX? One of my favorite effects is a fuzz with a starve feature to mimmick a dying battery. Sounds like bit reduction only m ore organic and random. I would love to have something like this for my modular setup.
Love your designs Ian!


I doubt that Ian would do something as basic as a starved fuzz, but his existing waveshapers are good for complex distortion. The 5-pulser and Wavolver can be particularly aggressive. The SNICster can produce a huge variety of distorted shapes. Even the Threeler VCF can sound like an oscillating fuzz. Try some of these.
Bhang
thermionicjunky wrote:

I doubt that Ian would do something as basic as a starved fuzz, but his existing waveshapers are good for complex distortion. The 5-pulser and Wavolver can be particularly aggressive. The SNICster can produce a huge variety of distorted shapes. Even the Threeler VCF can sound like an oscillating fuzz. Try some of these.


True enough. I have checked out his waveshapers and will be building a panel that includes at least the wavolver. Hopefully very soon.
appliancide
Bhang wrote:
Hello Paul,
Wondering if you have any of the 1st panel with PCB's available. Was also hoping I could take a look at the build doc for this one.
These look killer. I'm sure they sound even better.


I still have panels and PCBs available. Detailed documentation for each circuit is included with the purchase. There isn't a document for the panels themselves, but the build thread here should be enough to tie everything together. Ian, myself, and several other experienced builders monitor the thread, so help is here if you run into any obstacles.
frijitz
Bhang wrote:
these sound fantastic! I'm wondering if you have ever made any distortion FX? One of my favorite effects is a fuzz with a starve feature to mimmick a dying battery. Sounds like bit reduction only m ore organic and random. I would love to have something like this for my modular setup.
Love your designs Ian!

Thanks! For now I'm leaving the distortion pedals to the guitarists. hihi

Ian
Bhang
So I am ready to order & pay for Panel 1 with all PCB's. Do you still include the CGS91 rails or do I need to order those from Ken?

I do have a short list of questions I'm collecting, but I'm trying to sort them out for myself before bothering anyone else with them.

Can't wait to get started on this!
It's motherfucking bacon yo
This is fun!
MY ASS IS BLEEDING
appliancide
Bhang wrote:
So I am ready to order & pay for Panel 1 with all PCB's. Do you still include the CGS91 rails or do I need to order those from Ken?

I do have a short list of questions I'm collecting, but I'm trying to sort them out for myself before bothering anyone else with them.

Can't wait to get started on this!
It's motherfucking bacon yo
This is fun!
MY ASS IS BLEEDING


I just did a group buy of the CGS91 rails when these first came out. You will have to order them from Ken, as I don't have any extras.

Post as many questions as you like to the build thread. I know they are sitting in a few backlogs, so they will most likely be helpful to someone else as well. thumbs up

Prices and paypal info are in the first post.
appliancide
Sale prices for a limited time!
Bhang
appliancide wrote:
Sale prices for a limited time!

SOLD !! I will take a panel 2 complete set!
Will paypal you later today.
- Jeremy
appliancide
I will be shipping all of the new orders in the next couple of days. Sale prices are good through Friday (5/9). If you are interested, but a bit short, contact me and we can probably work something out.
fracinfrucer
These look great! Has anyone built these and could give a ballpark of cost for the other parts to finish each panel? Are there many rare parts?
appliancide
fracinfrucer wrote:
These look great! Has anyone built these and could give a ballpark of cost for the other parts to finish each panel? Are there many rare parts?


Build thread is here. There are mostly accurate BOMs posted which should give you a ballpark idea of the total cost. Add another $100-300 for pots, knobs, etc (depends on what parts you use and where you get them from).

The Threeler uses 2 CA3280, and the Teezer uses 1, so to build both panels you need 4. You can find tested pieces at Synthcube and Bridechamber.
individuomandroide
Are you still taking orders? I want all PCBs smile
appliancide
I am taking orders through 10/15/2015. After that uglysound will be inactive while I relocate and get a divorce.
malnatim
i've enjoyed the videos from electrostatic... thanks! has anyone else recorded demos of these 2 panels? i'd love to hear more.
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