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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Verbos dual Four Pole Filter
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Verbos dual Four Pole Filter
anselmi
I´m looking for something different...is this filter the one I need?

I got :

MMF-1
Borg2
Ripples
patchable SEM (new)
microbrute
slim phatty
Minitaur


How it compares with this and other well known filters?


And where´s the amazing demos???

It looks gorgeous and I can hear some interesting sweeps in a few youtube videos but that´s all... seriously, i just don't get it
Dogma
Yeah Im looking at his osc's and I cant find that much. I nearly bought his VCA/filter the other day but for he lack of demos.
Its a real nice low/hi pass filter thats morph able between the 2. Vactorals. Not much more to it I dont think

EDIT> With Verbos OSc's he has done his complex OSC before with his Buchla systems so Ive heard those but im interested in the other one. For which I cant find many - one actually
anselmi
no users of this filter here? seriously, i just don't get it
L
If i can, during the week end i could do some audio /video demos
btw i love this system!
Dogma
i too am super interested. Also in the tone control as a final VCA and filter..... With the L1 Quad Mixer I dont know if Id need it.
WHat are your thoughts?
Funky40
no


its not the überfilter and there wont be any.
everything else is hype.
my verdict and my opinion

if you need a "goody" for your pleasure, get one, you will be happy.
if space and money IS an issue, probably think twice
mritenburg
This is a simple limited demo of the low pass channel of the dual four pole using the saw wave from the harmonic osc. I'm using a system x envelope to open the filter on each gate and I'm using the triangle from the complex osc to sweep the cut-off frequency. I posted this in the VERBOS thread, but figured I would post it here since people keep asking.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-eastcoast[/s]
Dogma
Yeah your probably right although I do think his oscillators are very nice
Ive decided on this bad boy instead http://www.modulargrid.net/e/l-1-mutant-vactrol-filter
DIY which is super easy on this is about $280 to DIY - sounds incredible.
paperCUT
mritenburg wrote:
This is a simple limited demo of the low pass channel of the dual four pole using the saw wave from the harmonic osc. I'm using a system x envelope to open the filter on each gate and I'm using the triangle from the complex osc to sweep the cut-off frequency. I posted this in the VERBOS thread, but figured I would post it here since people keep asking.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-eastcoast[/s]


Any demos of both filers in series? Sounds great.
goiks
i enjoy this filter, it's very playable and crude/vintagey sounding. but, like most of his modules, i think it could be smaller without sacrificing function or playability, and it probably won't stay in my setup forever.

(other filters i have: qmmf-4, uvcf, doc oc, addac filterbank, r-54)
alamandra
Does sound awesome what i heard of it, but that's not my first hand experience of actually using the module. I'd like one but a 3rd filter just isn't needed in a system like mine, and I am keeping the filters i got forever.
w00dw0rth
Dogma wrote:
i too am super interested. Also in the tone control as a final VCA and filter..... With the L1 Quad Mixer I dont know if Id need it.
WHat are your thoughts?


I have to put in a plug here for the Amplitude and Tone Control module. I just got it and have been using it side by side with a Pittsburgh LPG - to kind of explore the differences - and I can confirm that it is badass, and super fun to play. As you probably realize, it is a VCA and LPF, but not integrated in the same way that most LPGs are, so you have way more functionality and options for modulation. It sounds amazing, and makes so so much sense after spending a half hour with it. I've been dreaming patches using only it and the Verbos Harmonic OSC only now for the past several nights.

I can't speak to the dual 4 pole because I've never touched it. But the ATC is really fun and makes you want to go on west coast excursions all day long.
ndkent
Was drawn because it's Verbos and a steep filter pair is pretty rare.

Watch out that the really early ones made need a fix.

I guess some people want filters that really distort so I guess it's not one of those but a filter I'm happy to own for dual filtering
stickmann
It is a unique filter. The resonance never goes into self oscillation and gives the filter a watery squelch sound with high resonance settings. It is a bit quirky and gives me a sort of rustic 1960's tape recording filter vibe (highly opinionated, perhaps slightly biased thought). I primarily used it in series and it gives very precise and unique band pass filtering. I would be hesitant to recommend it as your only filter(s) but it adds a nice sound, unique features (dual 24db slope, series or 2 separate filters), and does what is advertises very well.

Two CV inputs with attenuverters are nice but I think the panel size could have been significantly reduced by having just one CV input per filter. Perhaps there was a design concept for this that I have not heard of, but mixer + attenuverter modules can easily achieve this.

Having said that, my favorite patches with the DFP involve crazy modulation of all four CV inputs with stepped modulation. It is probably because of the 4 pole that the changes sound crispy and drastic. I've had particularly good results feeding the Phonogene into it.

I could record stuff but I'm usually getting lost in patching and forget. I have the full Verbos set and really enjoy using all of them.
konnekshen
ndkent wrote:
Was drawn because it's Verbos and a steep filter pair is pretty rare.

Watch out that the really early ones made need a fix.

I guess some people want filters that really distort so I guess it's not one of those but a filter I'm happy to own for dual filtering


i just bought one... what do you mean by "early ones need a fix?"

mine says "dual four pole v2" 2013,
so it is a later one i guess?


thank you

btw yes it is big. yes it is kinda limited.
but it sounds sooo good...


and if you feel alone, then you can modulate it and it will
talk to you so sweet ... 60s alien cat purring


ps i would love to know what the 4 jumpers on the back are for...
filter and reso tuning?
Dogma
I really like dual filter setups like this and yes its exxpensive and big but from the demos it sounds incredible and I want it. The L1 mutant filter Im getting is not much cheaper at all so the 20% premium doesnt seem so much if your gonna live with it for a couple of years
ndkent
konnekshen wrote:


i just bought one... what do you mean by "early ones need a fix?"



The first few that went out the door from Analogue Haven needed a fix. If it's one of them it should be easy to spot if listened to and clearly something is wrong (signal to noise, knob range). Because of the way they were rolled out for sale it's impossible to buy a problem one new by accident now. But as luck would have it I bought one second hand that was bought early and Mark quickly fixed mine.
mritenburg
ndkent wrote:
konnekshen wrote:


i just bought one... what do you mean by "early ones need a fix?"



The first few that went out the door from Analogue Haven needed a fix. If it's one of them it should be easy to spot if listened to and clearly something is wrong (signal to noise, knob range). Because of the way they were rolled out for sale it's impossible to buy a problem one new by accident now. But as luck would have it I bought one second hand that was bought early and Mark quickly fixed mine.


That's interesting. I bought my dual four pole on the first day they were available and have not had any issues.
Selador
To clarify the issue people are talking about, and is present only in systems powered by switching supplies:

tuj
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108759&start=0&postd ays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
mritenburg
Selador wrote:
To clarify the issue people are talking about, and is present only in systems powered by switching supplies



That makes total sense because I have a linear supply. Thanks for the clarification.
quadrupole
For some reason I can't stop thinking about adding a DFP to my setup. It would be my only euro filter, but it looks great and sounds awesome in the few demos I've heard. However, getting it would mean delaying my modular grid fantasies a bit since its big and kinda expensive.

I'm just curious how everyone feels about the DFP a couple of months later. Do you guys still like it? Is it a keeper or something interesting passing through? How's it wearing on you?
we_squirm
I bought it and quickly returned it. It was beautiful, but a little too polite sounding for my tastes.
quadrupole
Interesting. The description says it can 'screech and growl' with the best of them. I guess I'm still looking for a demo that shows this screech and growl.

Still curious how others feel about their DFPs!
jameswalk
Why manufacturers of such excellent and expensive stuff don't invest in some decent promo vids is beyond me. This looks so interesting but I refuse to buy blind !
quadrupole
Well, I took the plunge and ordered a dfp, and I must say I'm quite glad I did!

It is a beautiful filter, and the module is outstanding from a build quality point of view. I would second the notion that this is a 'rustic' sounding filter. It's raw and primitive without being overbearing. Of course, there's no self oscillation, but the resonance is still aggressive somehow. This is especially true if you overdrive the input a bit, which sounds fantastic (although I'm not sure how good that is for the module). It also adds noticeable 'warmth' (to use a cliche) to the mid/bottom ranges in my brief experiments with my e340 cloud generator.

As someone else noted in the verbos electronics thread, it does have a fast cutoff. In fact, the low pass frequency closes somewhat abruptly around 10 o'clock on my unit. I was a little worried about this at first. But, when I started sending CVs to the inputs, the cutoff range is active over the whole range, and it sounds great.

My unit says V4 on the circuit board, and it is free of the crippling noise that seemed associated with some V2s initially. It is a bit noisy, but it's almost imperceptible if you set the levels correctly.
mousegarden
I've had mine now for about three months, I agree that it could have been made smaller, and it's also an odd size, always leaving 1u spare wherever I put it. The cut-off is abrupt, at 10 o-clock on mine. No major noise issues. It's a bit of a tricky one, it has a definite sound, and it sounds completely different to my Doepfer filters, the FP is much more "alive" more exciting, that's difficult to describe, but it's there. The character for me is slightly "clangy" metallic, but that suits my taste. It does remind me of a Buchla filter, in a way. If you open the filter all the way, and put a raw wave through it, it will sound dulll in comparison to more or less anything else, that worried me to start with, it's like it's not opening fully, but it's just the character of the filter.

MouseGarden.
ym2612
I'd love to hear more demos of this, or tracks where folks have used it. I'm especially interested in hearing how it works on non-synth material - samples, recordings, etc.
anselmi
ym2612 wrote:
I'd love to hear more demos of this, or tracks where folks have used it. I'm especially interested in hearing how it works on non-synth material - samples, recordings, etc.


+1 on this thumbs up
cranleigh
+2 -especially on samples. And also on sequenced bass with a bit of envelope generator contouring.
bookends
DFP is a great module. I love the ATC too.
quadrupole
Alright guys, here are a couple of demos:





These were recorded straight out of a mixer with no effects or eq,but hopefully it will give you an idea of the character of the DFP. I'll see if i can pull something together with using a recording as a sound source.

Also my first you tube uploads ever; hope you enjoy them!
Dogma
I initially was pretty cold towards to D4P but its whe n you patch it that the beauty becomes clear. The massive throw on those pots initially threw me thinking that there was something "off" - just felt like there where dead spots. Throw some modulation and it starts to show itself brightly.
Theres a bunch in the BST for some reason
Al
I did a basic audio demo as well:

https://soundcloud.com/shotgunstart/verbos-four-pole-filter-demo

I'm only selling mine because I need the money. waah The combo of the ATC and Four Pole is sweet. I plan on getting them again one day.
quadrupole


Here's one more showing the DFP used on a recording, as requested above. Enjoy![/video]
quadrupole
Al wrote:
I did a basic audio demo as well:

https://soundcloud.com/shotgunstart/verbos-four-pole-filter-demo

I'm only selling mine because I need the money. waah The combo of the ATC and Four Pole is sweet. I plan on getting them again one day.


That's a nice one. Love the complex modulation at the end!
Dogma
Al wrote:
I did a basic audio demo as well:

https://soundcloud.com/shotgunstart/verbos-four-pole-filter-demo

I'm only selling mine because I need the money. waah The combo of the ATC and Four Pole is sweet. I plan on getting them again one day.


Christ it sounds incredible with the PDO! Ive got one on the way after its modded from a V1 to a V2 (for $50 - thats so cool) - I was thinking about trading it but this has stopped that dead in its tracks.
ethnotronics
In my impression, the DFP has quite some distortion, resulting in a gritty, aggressive sound.

In many occasions, I prefer to filter the output of Complex Oscillator with the Doepfer A-150 instead of the DFP, to the point that I am thinking of taking the DFP out of my Verbos composition system (despite hearing several people that prefer to keep modules from the same manufacturer together).
Voggg
I found that it can self-oscillate if you patch the lowpass output to the hipass input, turn up the resonance on both sides, and set the frequencies within about 30 degrees of each other.
ym2612
Voggg wrote:
I found that it can self-oscillate if you patch the lowpass output to the hipass input, turn up the resonance on both sides, and set the frequencies within about 30 degrees of each other.


Cool, is that controllable at all? Like if you controlled each side's frequency with the same CV?
Voggg
ym2612 wrote:
Cool, is that controllable at all? Like if you controlled each side's frequency with the same CV?


Yeah, exactly. As long as the interval between the two is within a certain range
Kaput
ethnotronics wrote:
In my impression, the DFP has quite some distortion, resulting in a gritty, aggressive sound.


If you attenuate the audio signal going into the DFP, you will lose much of the aggressiveness - the character changes quite significantly, in fact. Worth experimenting. thumbs up
ethnotronics
Kaput wrote:
ethnotronics wrote:
In my impression, the DFP has quite some distortion, resulting in a gritty, aggressive sound.


If you attenuate the audio signal going into the DFP, you will lose much of the aggressiveness - the character changes quite significantly, in fact. Worth experimenting. thumbs up


True. I should have specified that it distorts more than the a-105 for same input level.
You have a valid point, though.
stephentrask
quadrupole wrote:


Here's one more showing the DFP used on a recording, as requested above. Enjoy![/video]


Brilliant!
cranleigh
quadrupole wrote:


Here's one more showing the DFP used on a recording, as requested above. Enjoy![/video]


Cheers! Sounds pretty great.
Doglien
The tone at the beginning of this track is the Verbos Complex Oscillator through the Dual Four Pole... I really like the sound of it.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/dr-perceptron/the-sheep-look-up[/s]
Dogma
Very Nice Doglien!
I ran my e350 in LFO mode and spread it out as much as I could and with a couple of Quadra envs I hearing a totally new depth to the filter - the dust or Brule was cracked open and inside I found silky motion (its late) - completely changed the view of it. The e350 is such a revelation I need a e355 or another e350 JUST for modulation....
Doglien
Dogma wrote:
Very Nice Doglien!


Thanks, man! I keep putting them out there, hoping someone will listen wink
quadrupole
Great to see so many demos popping up for this cool filter. And, it's great to know they're appreciated!
Voggg
Great demo quadrupole. I'm confused about how you got those growls out of the bandpass with it set so high. I'll have to do some wiggling!
quadrupole
Doglien wrote:
The tone at the beginning of this track is the Verbos Complex Oscillator through the Dual Four Pole... I really like the sound of it.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/dr-perceptron/the-sheep-look-up[/s]


Love this track, Doglien! Is that whistle at the beginning coming from the CO or the DFP?
quadrupole
Voggg wrote:
Great demo quadrupole. I'm confused about how you got those growls out of the bandpass with it set so high. I'll have to do some wiggling!


Glad you liked it! If your curiosity becomes overwhelming just give me a time reference and I can tell you what I was doing.

I still need to try your self oscillation trick as well!
Doglien
quadrupole wrote:
Doglien wrote:
The tone at the beginning of this track is the Verbos Complex Oscillator through the Dual Four Pole... I really like the sound of it.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/dr-perceptron/the-sheep-look-up[/s]


Love this track, Doglien! Is that whistle at the beginning coming from the CO or the DFP?


Thanks! smile

The whistling is from pushing the resonance on the DFP aggressively wink
quadrupole
Wow, that is intense! Esp for a filter that won't self oscillate under normal conditions. Clearly have some exploring to do with this one...
mousegarden
The essense of this filter really shines when I sweep it with an LFO, it's the only filter I have that can give me that really psychedelic "Gong" style sweep that you hear on records like "You" I'm always really surprised when I hear some of my recordings back, and wonder "what on earth is that filter" ? what did I use ? Then I realise it's the Four Pole.
Shame mine has this noise though, it's not always there, but it spoils what is otherwise a great filter.

MouseGarden.
C14ru5
My DFP apparently has a -4V offset on the LP output, which limits the headroom in comparison to the HP output that doesn't suffer from this. As a result, if I want undistorted resonant sounds using both HP+LP, I must reduce the level of the input signal into both filters dramatically, to a level below 1Vpp. Is this normal behavior? The offset starts around 0 when the case is turned on, and within 10 seconds it's down to -4V.
mousegarden
C14ru5 wrote:
My DFP apparently has a -4V offset on the LP output, which limits the headroom in comparison to the HP output that doesn't suffer from this. As a result, if I want undistorted resonant sounds using both HP+LP, I must reduce the level of the input signal into both filters dramatically, to a level below 1Vpp. Is this normal behavior? The offset starts around 0 when the case is turned on, and within 10 seconds it's down to -4V.


??

Can't say i've noticed a big overdriven type vibe ? Maybe a bit, but not much.
C14ru5
Thanks for your input, mousegarden. It's not a deal-breaker for me because it's quite common for filter modules to suffer from having little headroom, but it's certainly irritating to have to use extra utility modules to attenuate into and then amplify out of the filter. Especially if it turns out that the DFP is not supposed to have this -4V offset out of the LP channel... maybe I'll contact the store I bought it from and see if anything can be done.
mritenburg
C14ru5 wrote:
Especially if it turns out that the DFP is not supposed to have this -4V offset out of the LP channel... maybe I'll contact the store I bought it from and see if anything can be done.


It may be that the calibration of the LP side is off. There are 4 trim pots on the pcb for calibrating the LP side. The LP response can be totally unusable if the calibration is off. The HP side has no trimpots. If you are handy with a meter, you can probably calibrate it yourself, though you should contact Verbos Electronics for the calibration procedure.
C14ru5
That's great advice, mritenburg! Will do so.
mousegarden
I would go straight to Verbos, not bother with the store, unless they let you try another one maybe ?
Dogma
I just got my Verbos 4 pole back after initially selling it - wow smile I its even better than I remember - pings WAAY better than I remember too.....good times....
Voggg
I moved the filter from my MN psu to Tiptop and it sounds much better. Still getting a bit of weird noise in the higher frequencies, but it's "character" noise rather than undesirable hiss. I've been patching it in serial a lot with most of the resonance at the bottom and a bit of modulation--sounds fantastic.
Hanz
Calibration instructions as per Mark:

Quote:
In some systems, the first batch of Dual Four Poles leaked noise from
the power supply into the signal. It has been revised and hasn't
been a problem since. More filtering of the power lines and a gain
change on the hipass side solved it. The first production version was
V2, and they were modded on that same board until recently. The
trims are DC offset on each stage of the lopass side. The 1960s style
filter stages do have some control bleed, but the level should be
unity gain. With the resonance down, cutoff up and a signal going
through they should be trimmed to 5.6v at TP1, TP2, TP3, TP4.

The resonance control is slow (optical element), and much more
sensitive in the lower range. It should definitely not be subtle
though. It should be very wet and juicy sounding. If the trims are not
right, it will effect the depth of the resonance.


Did this myself (IMHO the trimmers are not the best and very touchy) and there seems to be some interdependence between the four trimmer stages.
it does make a difference, though. I found the module to be very PSU dependent, requiring recalibration when switching cases/power. Tiptop Studiobus provided the most stable performance in the end.
Still, the module itself is worth it for me, I like the 'vintage' sound and the hands-on controls. The response curves / knob ranges are a bit weird though.
VomitFlowers
I had the same experience with calibrating mine from the first batch. Received the same instructions from Mark, and while it mostly worked I found the trimmers to be overtly sensitive and absolutely interdependent, it took quite a bit of time to get them all aligned - and that was only in 1 case. The settings are completely off if being used in a different case with a different power supply. Been considering buying a later revision one at some point, but it is an absolutely brilliant sounding filter, great for processing acoustic instruments as well.
Leverkusen
Finally I got my Four Pole and I really like the rough sound of it. It's just that there is quite a bit of bleed from the output of the LP to the output of the HP. I dig the irregularities of this machine but is the bleed a normal part of it? Can't both filter be used independently?

Here is a boring little sequence going from the LP into HP and from there to the mixer. I am sweeping the HP to fully closed and the sequence remains as it comes from the LP.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/222516694" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
Sven Kalmar
of course they can be used independently.
Leverkusen
That would mean mine is not working correctly... Dead Banana
Sven Kalmar
you mean you cant send higpass to one channel and the lowpass to another?paralell.
ndkent
mritenburg wrote:
C14ru5 wrote:
Especially if it turns out that the DFP is not supposed to have this -4V offset out of the LP channel... maybe I'll contact the store I bought it from and see if anything can be done.


It may be that the calibration of the LP side is off. There are 4 trim pots on the pcb for calibrating the LP side. The LP response can be totally unusable if the calibration is off. The HP side has no trimpots. If you are handy with a meter, you can probably calibrate it yourself, though you should contact Verbos Electronics for the calibration procedure.


mine had a huge offset that I discovered when thinking that it just didn't sound correct, I think a bunch shipped uncalibrated, contacted Mark, He showed me how to adjust the trimmers on the back
Leverkusen
Sven Kalmar wrote:
you mean you cant send higpass to one channel and the lowpass to another?paralell.


After rereading my post I see it's written a little clumsy. I mean it would not make sense to use them in parallel or high pass after low pass as long a part of the low pass signal is appearing on the output of the high pass as in the example I posted above.

ndkent wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
C14ru5 wrote:
Especially if it turns out that the DFP is not supposed to have this -4V offset out of the LP channel... maybe I'll contact the store I bought it from and see if anything can be done.


It may be that the calibration of the LP side is off. There are 4 trim pots on the pcb for calibrating the LP side. The LP response can be totally unusable if the calibration is off. The HP side has no trimpots. If you are handy with a meter, you can probably calibrate it yourself, though you should contact Verbos Electronics for the calibration procedure.


mine had a huge offset that I discovered when thinking that it just didn't sound correct, I think a bunch shipped uncalibrated, contacted Mark, He showed me how to adjust the trimmers on the back


How did you contact him? I don't get an answer using the contact link on the verbos website. And is it possible to calibrate the on/off switch behaviour of the resonance, too?
mousegarden
quadrupole wrote:
For some reason I can't stop thinking about adding a DFP to my setup. It would be my only euro filter, but it looks great and sounds awesome in the few demos I've heard. However, getting it would mean delaying my modular grid fantasies a bit since its big and kinda expensive.

I'm just curious how everyone feels about the DFP a couple of months later. Do you guys still like it? Is it a keeper or something interesting passing through? How's it wearing on you?


I'm selling mine, not because it's not thrilling, just because it's just too damn big, like a lot of my modules, you can get the same functionality if not more in a smlaller package, especially if you are downsizing and going portable like me.
Sven Kalmar
ok IC. The Verbos people have been great to me.
Hope you get these issues fixed soon. Ive used mine in any configuration and no problems.
Leverkusen
Sven Kalmar wrote:
ok IC. The Verbos people have been great to me.
Hope you get these issues fixed soon. Ive used mine in any configuration and no problems.


Thanks! I am shure they are great - If they only would answer my requests... seriously, i just don't get it
Sven Kalmar
so what does you dealer say/do?
Leverkusen
I bought it on the forum from another wiggler. He said he did not notice it because of just using the low pass, not the high pass and never getting really in touch with his modules before selling them.

Did not hear anything from verbos electonics by now and just tried another email address I found on the forum. Well, it is 5 years old... sad banana
box78
mousegarden wrote:
I'm selling mine, not because it's not thrilling, just because it's just too damn big, like a lot of my modules, you can get the same functionality if not more in a smlaller package, especially if you are downsizing and going portable like me.


I understand that you can get the same funtionality, yes even more in a smaller module. But which one has the same (or alike) 'vintage' sound as the d4p? I'd like to know since I'm running out of rack space constantly hihi
quadrupole
box78 wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
I'm selling mine, not because it's not thrilling, just because it's just too damn big, like a lot of my modules, you can get the same functionality if not more in a smlaller package, especially if you are downsizing and going portable like me.


I understand that you can get the same funtionality, yes even more in a smaller module. But which one has the same (or alike) 'vintage' sound as the d4p? I'd like to know since I'm running out of rack space constantly hihi


Indeed good question. The D4p is definitely big, and yes could probably been squeezed behind a smaller panel. However, I think it's sound is pretty unique, which might not be surprising given it's origins. From working with it, and the Verbos CO, I've concluded that they are modules that you choose to use only because of their interesting sound. If you like it, then the space is worth it. If you're not that into it, then there are plenty of tighter options out there.
Sven Kalmar
i have a shared system 2+a little
and 3 verbos modules right now. yes they are big but really like that. its almost like fullsize format. I think they and the make noise modules compliments each other well. I have the harm osc, VM & the filter. This stuff is so individual. I like the open design of the modules and they have a caracter i really like. Ill end up with more of the verbos stuff along the road if i know myself correctly.
Dogma
Do you guys have problem - intermittent it seems, that the normalling between the right side LP in and the HP output? If I stick the cable in halfway the normaling works but breaks when it fully goes in....this is my second 4 pole and the first did this but then "fixed" itself with no intervention from me (moving positions in case, PSU more or less loaded ect)
we_squirm
my v2 dual pole filter has an issue where the hi pass filter when turned up produces some white noise sound. (not the squealing high note though known in the problematic ones.) is this normal? a calibration issue? the low pass also closes full around 11-12 o'clock.

Easy calibration procedure? I emailed Verbos but as they're moving to Berlin at the moment I don't expect a quick response.
Leverkusen
How loud is this? Highpass filters tend to be a bit noisy or hissy. And this one is not the cleanest of all.

The lowpass closing at that point is normal for the Verbos.
mousegarden
I ended up keeping my D4P. It's too good, it puts a smile on my face all the time, I'm back in 1975 it's so spacey. The strange thing is, when I had my Voyager, it was difficult when listening back to tracks I'd done, to figure out what was what, the Voyager, or the Verbos, this is strange, as the Verbos is considered to be a West Coast filter, I think.
Selador
The sound is nearly identical to the Buchla 191 sharp cutoff filter, I had the Verbos at the same time I used to have access to for 100 system. It's just been modified with added resonance and the ability to overdrive on a dime. Except for the high pass noise issue, I don't recall the 191 doing that, but I mostly recorded drones
nectarios
Demoed it. I love the sound of Verbos, but this VCF I didn't like. Tastes and all that, but it just sounded thin to me.

I was loosing a lot of amplitude going into it as well. I dunno if that is the case with this VCF or the one I demoed was a lemon, but yeah...nope.
Triglav
Hanz wrote:
Calibration instructions as per Mark:

Quote:
In some systems, the first batch of Dual Four Poles leaked noise from
the power supply into the signal. It has been revised and hasn't
been a problem since. More filtering of the power lines and a gain
change on the hipass side solved it. The first production version was
V2, and they were modded on that same board until recently. The
trims are DC offset on each stage of the lopass side. The 1960s style
filter stages do have some control bleed, but the level should be
unity gain. With the resonance down, cutoff up and a signal going
through they should be trimmed to 5.6v at TP1, TP2, TP3, TP4.

The resonance control is slow (optical element), and much more
sensitive in the lower range. It should definitely not be subtle
though. It should be very wet and juicy sounding. If the trims are not
right, it will effect the depth of the resonance.


Did this myself (IMHO the trimmers are not the best and very touchy) and there seems to be some interdependence between the four trimmer stages.
it does make a difference, though. I found the module to be very PSU dependent, requiring recalibration when switching cases/power. Tiptop Studiobus provided the most stable performance in the end.
Still, the module itself is worth it for me, I like the 'vintage' sound and the hands-on controls. The response curves / knob ranges are a bit weird though.


Could someone go into more detail on how to calibrate it? It would be really appreciated.
richc90
Triglav wrote:
Could someone go into more detail on how to calibrate it? It would be really appreciated.


I would value this too since I am thinking of picking up a used D4P.
mritenburg
Triglav wrote:
Hanz wrote:
Calibration instructions as per Mark:

Quote:
In some systems, the first batch of Dual Four Poles leaked noise from
the power supply into the signal. It has been revised and hasn't
been a problem since. More filtering of the power lines and a gain
change on the hipass side solved it. The first production version was
V2, and they were modded on that same board until recently. The
trims are DC offset on each stage of the lopass side. The 1960s style
filter stages do have some control bleed, but the level should be
unity gain. With the resonance down, cutoff up and a signal going
through they should be trimmed to 5.6v at TP1, TP2, TP3, TP4.

The resonance control is slow (optical element), and much more
sensitive in the lower range. It should definitely not be subtle
though. It should be very wet and juicy sounding. If the trims are not
right, it will effect the depth of the resonance.


Did this myself (IMHO the trimmers are not the best and very touchy) and there seems to be some interdependence between the four trimmer stages.
it does make a difference, though. I found the module to be very PSU dependent, requiring recalibration when switching cases/power. Tiptop Studiobus provided the most stable performance in the end.
Still, the module itself is worth it for me, I like the 'vintage' sound and the hands-on controls. The response curves / knob ranges are a bit weird though.


Could someone go into more detail on how to calibrate it? It would be really appreciated.


1. Get a multi-meter
2. Look at back of the DFP
3. There are four square solder pads. (Should be easy to spot)
4. The square solder pads are test points for trimmers 1, 2, 3, and 4
5. With resonance all the way ccw and cutoff all the way cw, pass a saw wave through the low pass filter
6. Measure the voltage at square solder pad 1, adjust trimmer 1 until the voltage you measure at the pad is 5.6v
7. Repeat for the rest of the pads/trimmers

If you get each pad/trimmer set correctly to 5.6v, the low pass filter should be fully calibrated.
Triglav
mritenburg wrote:

1. Get a multi-meter
2. Look at back of the DFP
3. There are four square solder pads. (Should be easy to spot)
4. The square solder pads are test points for trimmers 1, 2, 3, and 4
5. With resonance all the way ccw and cutoff all the way cw, pass a saw wave through the low pass filter
6. Measure the voltage at square solder pad 1, adjust trimmer 1 until the voltage you measure at the pad is 5.6v
7. Repeat for the rest of the pads/trimmers

If you get each pad/trimmer set correctly to 5.6v, the low pass filter should be fully calibrated.


Thank you! This is fun!
EDIT: I recommend everyone who has a DFP to test theirs, mine seems to sound considerably better after doing the calibration. Especially when turning up the resonance.
richc90
Thanks mritenburg!

Just to check, will the calibration fully resolve the issue with the noise on a switching PSU? In the message from Mark, it sounds like there are two issues -- one relating to the HPF and one relating to the LPF -- and the implication is that the calibration will not solve the HPF issue. Is that right?
mritenburg
richc90 wrote:
Thanks mritenburg!

Just to check, will the calibration fully resolve the issue with the noise on a switching PSU? In the message from Mark, it sounds like there are two issues -- one relating to the HPF and one relating to the LPF -- and the implication is that the calibration will not solve the HPF issue. Is that right?


As I understand it, the high frequency noise issue requires a mod. Calibration, on the other, just ensures that the low pass filter is performing as it should.
richc90
Okay, thanks for the info.
scuto
Necrobump to ask if anyone would describe this filter as having a sort of "fizzy" sound to it. During my only trip to a modular shop so far I tried one out, and it could be due to the lack of knowledge I had at that time, but it had a fizziness I wasn't into. Could it be the audio I was feeding it, the level I had going into it, or one of the earlier issues it had?
stephentrask
scuto wrote:
Necrobump to ask if anyone would describe this filter as having a sort of "fizzy" sound to it. During my only trip to a modular shop so far I tried one out, and it could be due to the lack of knowledge I had at that time, but it had a fizziness I wasn't into. Could it be the audio I was feeding it, the level I had going into it, or one of the earlier issues it had?



Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JlUSUmNkFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH0i4oyZPlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQz-wPfiNM&t=292s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b___A8qaBfU

The third and fourth ones show the DFP at it's grimiest grainiest vintage best. The first two are smoother. These kind of cover a lot of the ground of the Dual Four Pole. The one thing not in these is using them as a BP and tracking them with melodic CV, for instance from a keyboard. It's pretty good at that.

If the sound in these videos is what you heard then this module isn't your cup of tea. We all have our stuff we like and it's not all the same.
mousegarden
nectarios wrote:
Demoed it. I love the sound of Verbos, but this VCF I didn't like. Tastes and all that, but it just sounded thin to me.

I was loosing a lot of amplitude going into it as well. I dunno if that is the case with this VCF or the one I demoed was a lemon, but yeah...nope.


Definitely not thin here, no amplitude probs either. I did send mine back to Verbos for a complete re-calibration and service, they cured the hi-pass noise issue and the sharp and uneven response curve in the low pass.
I almost sold mine, as I needed space in my rack, but I'm glad I kept it, it's thee most stereotypical 70's style spacey filter that I have, I always laugh when I hear it on one of my tracks!
The Junglechrist
You guys make me want to buy one hahaha
scuto
stephentrask wrote:
The third and fourth ones show the DFP at it's grimiest grainiest vintage best. The first two are smoother. These kind of cover a lot of the ground of the Dual Four Pole. The one thing not in these is using them as a BP and tracking them with melodic CV, for instance from a keyboard. It's pretty good at that.

If the sound in these videos is what you heard then this module isn't your cup of tea. We all have our stuff we like and it's not all the same.

Thanks for the video links. At first listen, these sound better than the one I tried, and usually things are better in person!

Agreed on the tastes/modules comment. In addition to that, there are modules out there which look and sound amazing to me, but have nothing to do with my modular goals. As a result there are many manufacturers whose work I'm a fan of, but I have nothing of theirs in my case.
droningspaghettimonster
does this filter drop volume at bass like the transistor ladder with loads of resonance?
0x80
When I tried the filter first in a case with a built-in switching Meanwell PSU it sounded absolutely horrible (very weak and almost ring modulated). Then I found out that the problem was the the PSU had a floating ground (meaning the ground of the PSU was not connected with the ground of the incoming power cable / outside world. I didn't notice any effect on my other modules, but the DFP was VERY sensitive to it. Also the ATC sounded a lot better after I connected the ground.

However, I am having to re-calibrate my DFP. The resonance on the HPF is waay to subtle. I was wondering about the instructions I found earlier in this thread. Do they apply to the HPF as well? I got the impression that it was only about the LPF...

And if they do, do I turn the HPF cutoff CW or CCW?

@droningsphagettimonster the low end drops a little but not nearly as much as I am used to from a transistor ladder.
mritenburg
0x80 wrote:
When I tried the filter first in a case with a built-in switching Meanwell PSU it sounded absolutely horrible (very weak and almost ring modulated). Then I found out that the problem was the the PSU had a floating ground (meaning the ground of the PSU was not connected with the ground of the incoming power cable / outside world. I didn't notice any effect on my other modules, but the DFP was VERY sensitive to it. Also the ATC sounded a lot better after I connected the ground.

However, I am having to re-calibrate my DFP. The resonance on the HPF is waay to subtle. I was wondering about the instructions I found earlier in this thread. Do they apply to the HPF as well? I got the impression that it was only about the LPF...

And if they do, do I turn the HPF cutoff CW or CCW?

@droningsphagettimonster the low end drops a little but not nearly as much as I am used to from a transistor ladder.



The calibration procedure I posted is only for the LPF. There are no trimmers on the PCB for the HPF (at least on the version I have, I don't know if Verbos changed the design and added trimmers for the HPF).

The HPF frequency cutoff knob when fully CCW should let through a full, unfiltered signal. As you turn the HPF frequency knob CW, you gradually roll-off the low frequencies eventually only allowing the highest frequencies through the filter when the knob is fully CW.
0x80
Quote:
The HPF frequency cutoff knob when fully CCW should let through a full, unfiltered signal. As you turn the HPF frequency knob CW, you gradually roll-off the low frequencies eventually only allowing the highest frequencies through the filter when the knob is fully CW.


Did I really come across as if I don't know how a HPF works? eek!

I was trying to say that the HPF in my DFP is not nearly as resonant as I think it should be.

I made this video earlier to demonstrate the problem to the shop I bought it from (forgive me for the crappy phone recording quality):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsgn7f5hb313g8u/dfp-resonance.m4v?dl=0

My video also shows that until about 10 o-clock the cutoff controls are out of the audible range.

In the video below the HPF resonance sounds very different, and also the frequency controls seems to have a much lower offset:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b___A8qaBfU

So the instructions for calibration were for the LPF, but there are also no other trimmers (except for the initial frequency I just noticed, which should fix my offset problem I guess)

I will do the calibration anyway to see if it affects the HPF also, because otherwise there's nothing I can do seriously, i just don't get it
nectarios
mousegarden wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Demoed it. I love the sound of Verbos, but this VCF I didn't like. Tastes and all that, but it just sounded thin to me.

I was loosing a lot of amplitude going into it as well. I dunno if that is the case with this VCF or the one I demoed was a lemon, but yeah...nope.


Definitely not thin here, no amplitude probs either. I did send mine back to Verbos for a complete re-calibration and service, they cured the hi-pass noise issue and the sharp and uneven response curve in the low pass.
I almost sold mine, as I needed space in my rack, but I'm glad I kept it, it's thee most stereotypical 70's style spacey filter that I have, I always laugh when I hear it on one of my tracks!


It was at the shop that imports Verbos in Greece. The rest of the Verbos modules where behaving as expected so I don't know if that is the way the module sounds, or if it needed fixing, it was brand new like all the modules in that case. Anyhow a demo is the best way to make a decision really and this module is expensive, loads of hp and the sound was just, well not there. Hard to say as well with so many Verbos modules playing up, but I do think the ATC is one of the best filters around.
mritenburg
0x80 wrote:
Quote:
The HPF frequency cutoff knob when fully CCW should let through a full, unfiltered signal. As you turn the HPF frequency knob CW, you gradually roll-off the low frequencies eventually only allowing the highest frequencies through the filter when the knob is fully CW.


Did I really come across as if I don't know how a HPF works? :eek:

I was trying to say that the HPF in my DFP is not nearly as resonant as I think it should be.

I made this video earlier to demonstrate the problem to the shop I bought it from (forgive me for the crappy phone recording quality):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsgn7f5hb313g8u/dfp-resonance.m4v?dl=0

My video also shows that until about 10 o-clock the cutoff controls are out of the audible range.

In the video below the HPF resonance sounds very different, and also the frequency controls seems to have a much lower offset:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b___A8qaBfU

So the instructions for calibration were for the LPF, but there are also no other trimmers (except for the initial frequency I just noticed, which should fix my offset problem I guess)

I will do the calibration anyway to see if it affects the HPF also, because otherwise there's nothing I can do :despair:


In the video you attached you are configured for BPF. You patched in to the HPF and are monitoring the output of the LPF. If you just want to hear the HPF, monitor the left output that's at the top of the HPF section.
0x80
Quote:
In the video you attached you are configured for BPF. You patched in to the HPF and are monitoring the output of the LPF. If you just want to hear the HPF, monitor the left output that's at the top of the HPF section.


OK, yes, both filters are in series in my video, but I'm keeping the LPF fully open with resonance down when tweaking the HPF. So although it will roll off a bit of high-end, the effect on the output is neglectible in comparison to the obvious issues I'm trying to demo. Or am I missing your point? hmmm.....
Triglav
The resonance is definitely less pronounced on the HP side on my unit as well.
Not like the YouTube video where it can sweep through the harmonics clearly.
Euro Trash Bazooka
Sorry for the necrobump and my apologies for 1/being a n00b, 2/English not being my native language.

I just got a 2nd hand DPF in the mail and it behaves nothing like the one in this video:

https://youtu.be/b___A8qaBfU

when it comes to both frequency knobs. It's a V2 by the way...

The LPF never closes and its effect can be heard between 7 and 10 o'clock.
The HPF is really strong at 7 o'clock already and the general sound becomes barely noticeable after 9 o'clock. Above that, it disappears completely except between 3 and 4 o'clock, where it squelches really loud as if it was selfresonating. It doesn't happen with the LPF.
When doing those tests, all cv inputs are at noon, resonance knobs' position may vary but it's always set the same way for both filters.

I have no idea whether something is faulty or if I did it wrong, whether it's a calibration issue, whether I should get in touch with the guy I bought it from, etc.

Thank you very much in advance for your help or suggestions.
muffdiver
Sounds like it needs to be calibrated. Instructions for calibration are on n older thread.

I have to recalibrate mine every time I move my case.
muffdiver
mritenburg wrote:
Triglav wrote:
Hanz wrote:
Calibration instructions as per Mark:

Quote:
In some systems, the first batch of Dual Four Poles leaked noise from
the power supply into the signal. It has been revised and hasn't
been a problem since. More filtering of the power lines and a gain
change on the hipass side solved it. The first production version was
V2, and they were modded on that same board until recently. The
trims are DC offset on each stage of the lopass side. The 1960s style
filter stages do have some control bleed, but the level should be
unity gain. With the resonance down, cutoff up and a signal going
through they should be trimmed to 5.6v at TP1, TP2, TP3, TP4.

The resonance control is slow (optical element), and much more
sensitive in the lower range. It should definitely not be subtle
though. It should be very wet and juicy sounding. If the trims are not
right, it will effect the depth of the resonance.


Did this myself (IMHO the trimmers are not the best and very touchy) and there seems to be some interdependence between the four trimmer stages.
it does make a difference, though. I found the module to be very PSU dependent, requiring recalibration when switching cases/power. Tiptop Studiobus provided the most stable performance in the end.
Still, the module itself is worth it for me, I like the 'vintage' sound and the hands-on controls. The response curves / knob ranges are a bit weird though.


Could someone go into more detail on how to calibrate it? It would be really appreciated.


1. Get a multi-meter
2. Look at back of the DFP
3. There are four square solder pads. (Should be easy to spot)
4. The square solder pads are test points for trimmers 1, 2, 3, and 4
5. With resonance all the way ccw and cutoff all the way cw, pass a saw wave through the low pass filter
6. Measure the voltage at square solder pad 1, adjust trimmer 1 until the voltage you measure at the pad is 5.6v
7. Repeat for the rest of the pads/trimmers

If you get each pad/trimmer set correctly to 5.6v, the low pass filter should be fully calibrated.


Note: Calibrating is a PIA.
mritenburg
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:


I have no idea whether something is faulty or if I did it wrong, whether it's a calibration issue, whether I should get in touch with the guy I bought it from, etc.

Thank you very much in advance for your help or suggestions.


Can you tells us about the rest of your set up? What oscillators are using? What kind of power supply do you have?

Before you calibrate, you might just try attenuating the audio signal before it is patched into the Dual Four Pole.

If you decide to calibrate, just search for posts by me. I posted the calibration procedure; more than once actually. It's not that difficult if you have the right tools.

... looks like muffdiver beat me to it.
Euro Trash Bazooka
Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone.

I read the entire thread (and other Verbos threads) a few times beforehand.

My setup is small and simple. MI Elements goes into Verbos Amplitude & Tone Controller, then into the DPF, which can be modulated by Maths. Whether I put the A&TC before or after the DPF doesn't change a thing.

The PSU has a fixed busboard and all the modules are on the opposite side from it. I don't know what kind of PSU it is but it looks neatly done and OK to me. I can provide pictures.

Here's a video of what happens with my DPF:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qcgfinjhjmu9cw5/AABL4o2R27oeKmNa9yD8Yb11a?d l=0

Thanks a billion, really. I want to keep the filter, I love what I hear so far, but I would like to use it to its fullest potential.
muffdiver
Looks like calibration issue to me.
Euro Trash Bazooka
Thank you. I'll shoot Verbos an email with my video. Maybe they'll be able to tell me what I should do.
mritenburg
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
Thank you. I'll shoot Verbos an email with my video. Maybe they'll be able to tell me what I should do.


Here's the calibration procedure step-by-step with visuals to guide you:

Triglav
On my unit, there are two additional trimmers for setting the base frequency of the two big knobs.
mritenburg
Triglav wrote:
On my unit, there are two additional trimmers for setting the base frequency of the two big knobs.


Can you post a hi-rez photo of the back of your unit? Mine is a Rev. 2 the same as Euro Trash Bazooka's
Triglav
mritenburg wrote:
Triglav wrote:
On my unit, there are two additional trimmers for setting the base frequency of the two big knobs.


Can you post a hi-rez photo of the back of your unit? Mine is a Rev. 2 the same as Euro Trash Bazooka's


mritenburg
Triglav wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Triglav wrote:
On my unit, there are two additional trimmers for setting the base frequency of the two big knobs.


Can you post a hi-rez photo of the back of your unit? Mine is a Rev. 2 the same as Euro Trash Bazooka's




Perfect, thank you!
Euro Trash Bazooka
Calibration done. It did improve things with the LPF. Now if I could get that damn HPF to work as it should...
Triglav
After doing some more tests, I'm not sure the 5.6V is applicable to the REV5.
If I calibrate all points to 5.6V, I get a huge DC offset at the output (like 6-8V) even with no input. I have to set the last stage to around 7V to get rid of the offset.
mritenburg
Triglav wrote:
After doing some more tests, I'm not sure the 5.6V is applicable to the REV5.
If I calibrate all points to 5.6V, I get a huge DC offset at the output (like 6-8V) even with no input. I have to set the last stage to around 7V to get rid of the offset.


It's possible that the procedure is not correct for any model after rev 2. I received the procedure from Verbos Electronics back in 2014. Let me see if I can dig up that old email.
3pand
I would like to know about the calibration as well. Maybe I will try sending an email to Verbos support to ask about it....
mritenburg
I re-calibrated my v2 Dual Four Pole using the procedure I posted above. It produced great results. My low pass filter is smooth, liquid, and resonant. I recorded a quick video showing my DFP filtering a saw wave with moderate to high resonance. I'm using a Makenoise Contour to sweep the filter. Half way through the video I patch in an LFO from a Furthrrrr Generator to increase the modulation.

It sounds good to me.

3pand
Thanks for reporting back and for making the video! Sounds great. Haha I didn't recognize the Furthrrrr generator with that plain panel.
mritenburg
3pand wrote:
Thanks for reporting back and for making the video! Sounds great. Haha I didn't recognize the Furthrrrr generator with that plain panel.


Thanks! Without going too far off-topic, it's a Buchla 259 style panel I created for my Furthrrrr Generator

Euro Trash Bazooka
My V2 DFP definitely doesn't sound like that even after calibration. After some email exchange with a Verbos tech, I have to check whether the issues could come from the power block in my rack. I'll try this next week as I just found someone in my area with their own modular system that'd be down to try it all out. I'll report back as the investigation goes further.

Your DFP sounds amazing, mritenburg.
mritenburg
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
My V2 DFP definitely doesn't sound like that even after calibration. After some email exchange with a Verbos tech, I have to check whether the issues could come from the power block in my rack. I'll try this next week as I just found someone in my area with their own modular system that'd be down to try it all out. I'll report back as the investigation goes further.

Your DFP sounds amazing, mritenburg.


Thanks! Here's a couple things you should try.

1. Use a plain old saw wave and run it through a mixer/attenuator before you patch it into the DFP. In my vid I am using the saw out from the HO and CO into a Manhattan Mix (which is off screen btw). The Manhattan Mix is attenuating the signal before it is patched into the DFP.

2. I am monitoring straight out of the DFP. I am not using an ATC or any other module after the DFP, well besides an Intellijel uJack which is my output to DAW.
Voggg
in my experience DFP responds well to loud signals. I often use a little amplification from something like Gozinta in the chain prior to DFP
mritenburg
Voggg wrote:
in my experience DFP responds well to loud signals. I often use a little amplification from something like Gozinta in the chain prior to DFP


Yeah, there's a Verbos Electronics product demo video where Mark Verbos talks about his views on overdrive and distortion. According to that video, the Verbos audio path is designed to overdrive and sound good.

That said, in my experience, if you want to get that smooth, liquid response from the DFP, one of the tricks is attenuating the audio signal so it doesn't overdrive the circuit.
Euro Trash Bazooka
OK, more news about my DFP issues.

I tested it in another case with other modules and a different power supply, and the LPF worked much better, like on that awesome YouTube video posted earlier in the thread (or almost as well.) The HPF, on the other hand, still didn't seem to work or respond on the second half of its course. There's no way to check the HPF calibration on my DFP version (V2.) Another thing though... We tried to rule out a power issue from my case by testing another module of mine (Elements) in my friend's case. It sounded similar in both cases. Only the DPF sounded worse in my case. I tried different buses in it but it didn't change. Sigh.

Here's a video I made with my friend's case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vy3040r2slu8kvc/DPF%20Issues%20Friend%27s%20 Case.mp4?dl=0
mritenburg
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
OK, more news about my DFP issues.

I tested it in another case with other modules and a different power supply, and the LPF worked much better, like on that awesome YouTube video posted earlier in the thread (or almost as well.) The HPF, on the other hand, still didn't seem to work or respond on the second half of its course. There's no way to check the HPF calibration on my DFP version (V2.) Another thing though... We tried to rule out a power issue from my case by testing another module of mine (Elements) in my friend's case. It sounded similar in both cases. Only the DPF sounded worse in my case. I tried different buses in it but it didn't change. Sigh.

Here's a video I made with my friend's case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vy3040r2slu8kvc/DPF%20Issues%20Friend%27s%20 Case.mp4?dl=0


I am just guessing here, but it's possible that your HPF has an incorrect resistor value for setting the initial frequency of the HPF. That's probably why Verbos Electronics added those INITIAL frequency trimmers (thanks to Triglav for the photos) to the later revisions of the DFP so that what you are experiencing can be simply be adjusted and corrected with the turn of a screwdriver.
Euro Trash Bazooka
mritenburg wrote:
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:
OK, more news about my DFP issues.

I tested it in another case with other modules and a different power supply, and the LPF worked much better, like on that awesome YouTube video posted earlier in the thread (or almost as well.) The HPF, on the other hand, still didn't seem to work or respond on the second half of its course. There's no way to check the HPF calibration on my DFP version (V2.) Another thing though... We tried to rule out a power issue from my case by testing another module of mine (Elements) in my friend's case. It sounded similar in both cases. Only the DPF sounded worse in my case. I tried different buses in it but it didn't change. Sigh.

Here's a video I made with my friend's case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vy3040r2slu8kvc/DPF%20Issues%20Friend%27s%20 Case.mp4?dl=0


I am just guessing here, but it's possible that your HPF has an incorrect resistor value for setting the initial frequency of the HPF. That's probably why Verbos Electronics added those INITIAL frequency trimmers (thanks to Triglav for the photos) to the later revisions of the DFP so that what you are experiencing can be simply be adjusted and corrected with the turn of a screwdriver.


Yeah, but since I can't do that on mine, I emailed Verbos about it. Wait and see...
Acquadar
Hi guys, this is a great filter, I know. Can I trust that if I buy one I’ll have In front of me years of joy or it need calibration every couple of weeks?
stephentrask
Acquadar wrote:
Hi guys, this is a great filter, I know. Can I trust that if I buy one I’ll have In front of me years of joy or it need calibration every couple of weeks?

I haven't had problems or needed to have it calibrated. Owned it for four years.
3pand
Rearranging modules seems to throw mine out of whack. Also, I’ve experienced bleed from digital modules with all power supplies I’ve tried except for the tip-top Zeus studio bus.
Euro Trash Bazooka
Acquadar wrote:
Hi guys, this is a great filter, I know. Can I trust that if I buy one I’ll have In front of me years of joy or it need calibration every couple of weeks?


Nope, once it's calibrated it doesn't move.

3pand wrote:
Rearranging modules seems to throw mine out of whack. Also, I’ve experienced bleed from digital modules with all power supplies I’ve tried except for the tip-top Zeus studio bus.


I've experienced that too. Paul from Verbos confirmed to me it was a sensitive module so a good power supply is needed (the DPF sounded really bad with my Meanwell PSU but got amazing once I upgraded to a 4ms Row Power or in my friend's rack, also powered by a uZeus) and there's indeed some bleed from other modules depending on where it stands in your case. I don't leave mine next to my Shard for instance.
stephentrask
Euro Trash Bazooka wrote:

I've experienced that too. Paul from Verbos confirmed to me it was a sensitive module so a good power supply is needed (the DPF sounded really bad with my Meanwell PSU but got amazing once I upgraded to a 4ms Row Power or in my friend's rack, also powered by a uZeus) and there's indeed some bleed from other modules depending on where it stands in your case. I don't leave mine next to my Shard for instance.


I can agree with this, that the filter is sensitive to certain power supplies and to where it's positioned in the rack. But the calibration is not an issue.
LiftMuzik
If you don't mind digging up this topic...

Is there any of you here who fixed the lack of resonance on the HPF side? My D4P works great on the LPF side, but the Hipass barely has any resonance, nowhere near all of the videos I've seen anyway.

It's curious, I have a version with only two trimpots and no version number.

Tried to contact Verbos but no reaponse thusfar.
Triglav
I don't think theres anything you can do unless you figure out which resistors correspond to the 1k trimmers on the schematic and replace them with trimmers somehow. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/ab6c23_f34e617840bc45d38f9bd5760dbbda9c .pdf

As for the Lopass side, I've replaced the trimmers on my unit with 12-turn ones (Bourns 3269P-1-102GLF fits nicely) and it was so much easier to calibrate.
mritenburg
LiftMuzik wrote:
Is there any of you here who fixed the lack of resonance on the HPF side?.


Just out of curiosity, if you patch a +10v cv into the HPF resonance cv input, does it push the resonance to the level you want?
LiftMuzik
mritenburg wrote:
LiftMuzik wrote:
Is there any of you here who fixed the lack of resonance on the HPF side?.


Just out of curiosity, if you patch a +10v cv into the HPF resonance cv input, does it push the resonance to the level you want?


No, even with 10 volts to the resonance input it's still really well-behaved. I heard some demos online where you can really hear the sweep on the highpass, but I can't for the life of me do that with mine.
3pand
Have you tried writing to Verbos? There is a new support person, Tom, and he immediately arranged for me to send in my Dual Four Pole to be repaired. If the module is out of warranty period or was bought second-hand, the repair fee is 30 euro plus shipping both ways.
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