Doepfer/ Serge A-171-2 VCS Mod Schematics

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Navs
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Doepfer/ Serge A-171-2 VCS Mod Schematics

Post by Navs » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:25 am

Finally got round to writing up my Burst, Hold and EOR modification for the Doepfer/ Serge A-171-2 VCS:

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.de/2015/ ... matic.html

I've created a thread here because I'd welcome any corrections or improvements to the circuit.

Hope it's of use and look forward to your thoughts!

Cheers,

Navs

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Post by Joonatin » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:34 am

Lovely! I was going to make a small extra panel for my quadslope (dusg) with switches for trig out -> trig in and attenuated outs but this would definitelt be useful and easily added to the same panel too. Thanks for sharing!

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Navs
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Post by Navs » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:24 am

No probs, it's nice to have finally documented it.

The hold function can be fun at both audio (waveshaping) and low ('sequences') rates.

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Post by maltemark » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:39 am

Wow, I haven't really begun DIY yet, but would love to do this to my VCS:s - they are mainstays of my system. Thanks!

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Post by negate » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:21 pm

Navs, shouldn't the inverted EOC (IC1 pin 10) go to switch logic IN2 pin 16, not the double inverted EOC as in your schematic?
As you wrote: "As the EOC gate is ‘high’ at the wrong time, we want to flip its activity."

Cheers.

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oldenjon
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Post by oldenjon » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:52 pm

negate wrote:Navs, shouldn't the inverted EOC (IC1 pin 10) go to switch logic IN2 pin 16, not the double inverted EOC as in your schematic?
As you wrote: "As the EOC gate is ‘high’ at the wrong time, we want to flip its activity."

Cheers.
You're right, thanks for pointing that out.
The schematic should look like this I think:

*edit* schematic was wrong
Last edited by oldenjon on Wed May 31, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Navs
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Post by Navs » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:36 am

Oop. Didn't get a notification for this, sorry :hmm:

I'll check the module later to confirm.

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Post by ReToxx » Wed May 10, 2017 5:32 pm

I think the EOR function on the schematic shown above is wrong.
The DG201 logic says its normally open and closes with a high signal.
For EOR we want the "not attack" signal, which starts, when the envelope
enters its falling portion and stays there until the the envelope rises again i.e.
the envelope starts again. So we take that and use the EOC which happens to be high from the end of envelope until the next starts, to shorten the "not attack" signal closing the switch.
With the inverted EOC signal which would be always high when the "real" EOC is not, we would just get another EOC as EOR.
Did I get that right?

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oldenjon
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Post by oldenjon » Wed May 10, 2017 8:29 pm

Image

Threw this together real quick. It shows you the logic behind Nav's circuit.
The inverted EOC opens and closes the switch so that the NOT ATTACK signal is only high during the fall and low when the EOC goes high.

I got the same result by using a simple transistor NOR gate on the ATTACK and EOC signals.
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Post by Navs » Thu May 11, 2017 2:10 am

Thanks for that, oldenjon!

It's been a while but I remember that figuring out the logic made my head ache a little at the time.

ReToxx, I can have another look with a scope at some stage if that graphic doesn't answer your question.

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Post by ReToxx » Thu May 11, 2017 5:21 am

Ok, I made a graphic, too.
You can see, how the EOR would be like with EOC and –EOC doing the switching. The truth table of the DG201 says 0=ON, 1=OFF.
So for me this clearly looks like the regular EOC is the right signal to take.



switch ON / eoc LOW / not attack LOW --->
switch ON / eoc LOW / not attack HIGH --->
switch OFF / eoc HIGH / not attack HIGH --->
switch ON / eoc LOW / not attack LOW ---> etc.

this would be one cycle of the switch action, as I think.
But maybe I don't get something.Image

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oldenjon
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Post by oldenjon » Thu May 11, 2017 2:39 pm

ReToxx wrote: Ok, I made a graphic, too.
You can see, how the EOR would be like with EOC and –EOC doing the switching. The truth table of the DG201 says 0=ON, 1=OFF.
So for me this clearly looks like the regular EOC is the right signal to take. Image
You're right. Didn't realize DG201 was a normally open switch.
So the non-inverted EOC signal is the one to use
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Navs
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Post by Navs » Fri May 12, 2017 2:18 am

ReToxx wrote:... The DG201 logic says its normally open and closes with a high signal.
Image

It's entirely possible that I've got things the wrong way round and I can't remember so I'd have to check the circuit itself. But is this logic table from the datasheet not saying the reverse?

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Post by cygmu » Fri May 12, 2017 3:31 am

Some confusion is arising here because "normally open" means "normally off". This switch is normally closed.

But I think ReToxx is right about the logic. If you have two logic signals -- call them A, B -- and you apply A to the input and B to the drain of the switch, what you get at the source (provided you pull it down properly) is

(not A) AND B

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Post by Navs » Fri May 12, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks for clarifying that, cygmu. ReToxx, sorry, I now see you correctly described the logic states in your second post.

But now I also see that Oldenjon posted an amendment to the schematic in 2015. Is that what you are referring to as incorrect, ReToxx?

Here is the schematic I originally posted. I'll gladly amend it if it's wrong. Maybe make mark-ups in red so they're obvious?

If that still doesn't solve it, I'll get the module out and re-trace my tracks, so to speak. Please let me know which pins of which chips you want me to check.

Image

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Post by ReToxx » Sat May 13, 2017 5:35 am

I meant the "corrected" schematic version.
The one you posted now looks right to me.
I will etch a PCB on Monday propably, so will be able to tell
if it works or not in the next days.

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Post by ReToxx » Wed May 31, 2017 9:59 am

took me a little longer, unfortunately, but i can confirm now that the last schematic posted by navs works.

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Post by Navs » Wed May 31, 2017 3:49 pm

Excellent :)

I'd be keen to see pictures of your mod if you have some.

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Post by ReToxx » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:35 am

my phone camera is super dusty so u would hardly see anything. will try to take some with my other camera.
basically what i did is not a mod of the doepfer module but a completely new module i put together. my own kind of super function.
thanks for your work, that really helped me a lot.

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Post by appliancide » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:32 am

I just posted pics in the 2018 build thread of a pair of DUSG+ that used your mod schematic. Works great!

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