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modules with 3.5mm TRS MIDI jacks
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author modules with 3.5mm TRS MIDI jacks
kay_k
help me to make the ultimate list!

[EDIT: I am very sorry, I confused type A and type B, now corrected]


Type B; Polarity Arturia: Ring: Data; Tipp Vcc
Type A; Polarity Korg: Tip: Data; Ring Vcc (NOW THE MIDI 2.0 STANDARD!)
Polarity non-TRS (a.k.a. MFB): Sleeve & Tip

ALM Pamela's New Workout with Expander (Output; polarity internally swap-able)
MFB Nanozwerg Pro (Input; Polarity NON-TRS!!)
MFB SER-1 Pro (Output; Polarity probably NON-TRS too)
LPZW.modules WK3 (Input/Thru; Polarity auto/switchable)
LPZW.modules SCHLEUßIG (Input; Polarity auto)
LPZW.modules TRAM8(Input; Polarity auto)
Erica Synths Drum Sequencer (Input; unknown)
Five12 Vector (I/O; unknown)
SDS Digital WifiMidi (Output; Korg-ish)
SDS SDS_VCO (Input behind panel; User configurable))
SDS Reflex LiveLoop (Input behind panel; user switchable)
SSF Bantam (Input; unknown)
Soulsby AT-Arp (Input; unknown)
Malekko SYNC (I/O/Thru; Arturia)
1010 Music MX4 (Input/Thru; polarity Arturia)
1010 Music fxbox/bitbox (Input; polarity Arturia)
1010 Music Toolbox (I/O; polarity Arturia)
1010 Music MOK Waverazor (In; polarity Arturia)
ADDAC System ADDAC221 (I/O; Polarity Korg)
ADDAC System ADDAC222 (I/O; Polarity Korg)
Pittsburgh Modular Liveforms SV-1 (Input; Arturia)
Entrospec iungo (I/O; Polarity Korg - 2.5mm jacks!!! why, oh why? )
Flame Quad-CV-Recorder (Input; Arturia)
Flame 4Vox new version (Input; Arturia)
Flame Filterbank (Input; Arturia)
Twisted Electrons Crazy8 Beats (i/o unknown) - also standalone
Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms Voltage Lab(Input; ?)
Pittsburgh Modular Sequence Designer 128 (I/O; Arturia)
Zetaohm FLXS1 (I/O; Korg)
VPME.de trig31 (Out Arturia)
Dreadbox Lil' Erebus (In, Korg?)
Analog Solutions Treadstone Eurorack (In, unknown)
mxmxmx C2M (In/Out user configurable)
Michigan Synthworks MBrane (MI YARNS) (I/O unknown)
Shakmat Modular Clock O' Pawn (In: unkown)
Futureretro MIDI BUS expander for Trax! (I/O Arturia)
Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core Expander (i/o auto-crossover in & user selectable out)
Westlicht Per|former (i/o polarity Korg)
[url=]XOXO MIDIXO (Model 92½) (i/o polarity configurable)[/URL]
Polyend Poly 2 (i/o polarity Arturia)


Intellijel Palette 4.5U Cases (i/o polarity ?)

Non Modular:

- Make Noise 0-Coast (In; Polarity Korg)
- Korg Electribe 2/Sampler (I/O; Polarity Korg)
- Korg SQ-1 (Ou; Polarity Korg)
- Arturia Beatstep (Out) & BS Pro (I/O; Polarity Arturia)
- Novation Launchpad Pro (I/O; Polarity Arturia?)
- Novation Circuit (I/O; Polarity Arturia?)
- Novation Circuit Mono Station (I/O & Thru; Polarity Arturia?)
- Faderfox SC4 (I/O; Arturia?)
- Twisted Electrons Acid8 (I/O unknown)
- Twisted Electrons AY3 (Input unknown)
- Twisted Electrons Crazy8 (I/O unknown)
- Twisted Electrons hapiNes(In: unknown)
- Twisted Electrons TherapSid MkII(I/O: unknown)
- IK Multimedia Controllers, Midi Interfaces, UNO Drum&Synth (probably Korg/Type A)
- Analog Solutions Treadstone(In, unknown)
- Teenage Engineering OP-Z with oplab (I/O; polarity Korg??)
- Teenage Engineering Pocket Modular 16 (Output: polarity Korg)
- Elektron Model:Samples (I/O polarity ?)
- Critter And Guitari Organelle mk2 (I/O polarity Arturia)
- Empress Effects Zoia (I/O polarity ?)
- M-Audio Air Interface Series (I/O Type ?)


DIN-TRS Mapping according to MIDI.org



A fun DIY project for the cold winter evenings to do with the whole family:
https://www.midi.org/articles-old/updated-how-to-make-your-own-3-5mm-m ini-stereo-trs-to-midi-5-pin-din-cables
ersatzplanet
There are also the ADDAC221 10x9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System, and the ADDAC222 4x6 Voices 1V/Octave to MIDI Notes that use TRS MIDI jacks which apparently use the Korg standard.
kay_k
ersatzplanet wrote:
There are also the ADDAC221 10x9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System, and the ADDAC222 4x6 Voices 1V/Octave to MIDI Notes that use TRS MIDI jacks which apparently use the Korg standard.


added to the list. Thanks!
indigoid
Pittsburgh/Lifeforms SV-1 also, I believe

Not sure which way it's connected
kay_k
indigoid wrote:
Pittsburgh/Lifeforms SV-1 also, I believe

Not sure which way it's connected


thanks!
batch
SV-1 works with BSP
kay_k
Armstrb wrote:
SV-1 works with BSP
thumbs up
ADDAC System
kay_k wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:
There are also the ADDAC221 10x9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System, and the ADDAC222 4x6 Voices 1V/Octave to MIDI Notes that use TRS MIDI jacks which apparently use the Korg standard.


added to the list. Thanks!


Hi! Can you please make a correction? We are called ADDAC System and we have two modules that use the Korg standard, those are the ADDAC221 and ADDAC222. Thanks!
indigoid
Sounds like a passive module to convert between the various formats (and DIN) might be worth doing. Could design it so that its PCB could fit in a small standalone case also, like Mutable Instruments CVPal

An SQ-1 is in my future so maybe this is worth doing. It would be a fairly easy piece of Eagle design work
kay_k
ADDAC System wrote:
kay_k wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:
There are also the ADDAC221 10x9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System, and the ADDAC222 4x6 Voices 1V/Octave to MIDI Notes that use TRS MIDI jacks which apparently use the Korg standard.


added to the list. Thanks!


Hi! Can you please make a correction? We are called ADDAC System and we have two modules that use the Korg standard, those are the ADDAC221 and ADDAC222. Thanks!


Done! Thanks for the input!
kay_k
indigoid wrote:
Sounds like a passive module to convert between the various formats (and DIN) might be worth doing. Could design it so that its PCB could fit in a small standalone case also, like Mutable Instruments CVPal

An SQ-1 is in my future so maybe this is worth doing. It would be a fairly easy piece of Eagle design work


our WK3 is basically the active version of what you ask for.
As for the passive thing. I just had an idea this morning while sitting in the train to work - how about a little I/O plug in between. Like the Airtenuators or the 0HP stuff? should be somewhere in the 3-10€ area. depending on how many are produced. it could get waaaay lower but then it would need to become a made-in-china mass product.
I also think about making those to midi standard: LINK
(I bought one and it is not)
Roy72
Modcan touch sequencer. Not sure which standard, but it works with the BSP without messing around
kay_k
Roy72 wrote:
Modcan touch sequencer. Not sure which standard, but it works with the BSP without messing around


https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modcan-touch-sequencer
is this really MIDI .. their video says 24ppq clock, the panel says sync.
Roy72
kay_k wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
Modcan touch sequencer. Not sure which standard, but it works with the BSP without messing around


https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modcan-touch-sequencer
is this really MIDI .. their video says 24ppq clock, the panel says sync.


Sorry, got the two confused. Carry on...
sneak-thief
Meris Mercury7 reverb pedal IO
kay_k
sneak-thief wrote:
Meris Mercury7 reverb pedal IO


ooh, that is an interesting one. do you have it?
It is not only quarter inch instead of 3.5mm it also is MIDI I/O & CV/Footpedal in one jack. I have not found out how that works from the pics and manual.
sneak-thief
Yes, the Mercury7 uses 1/4" but seeing as 3.5mm adapters are trivial, I thought I would add it here.

Yes, I have one and it's can get the closest to a 224 I've heard so far. IMHO all the other fancy 224 plugins and the BAM have ringing artifacts that sound quite different from the original.

There's a 1/4" jack that can be switched between MIDI I/O, expression pedal input, tap tempo, and preset switcher.

Here's the full manual:

https://www.meris.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Meris-Mercury7-Manual- v2.pdf
Paranormal Patroler
Iungo module is CV-to-MIDI, uses Korg specification. Also upcoming Delptronics will be changeable via software.
windspirit
indigoid wrote:
Sounds like a passive module to convert between the various formats (and DIN) might be worth doing. Could design it so that its PCB could fit in a small standalone case also, like Mutable Instruments CVPal

An SQ-1 is in my future so maybe this is worth doing. It would be a fairly easy piece of Eagle design work


We are actually working on something but if someone beats us to it I wont be that upset. Its really just something that should exist.

Remember when all the big synth companies got together and worked out a UNIVERSAL solution to transmitting data between devices? d'oh!
kay_k
sneak-thief wrote:
Yes, the Mercury7 uses 1/4" but seeing as 3.5mm adapters are trivial, I thought I would add it here.

Yes, I have one and it's can get the closest to a 224 I've heard so far. IMHO all the other fancy 224 plugins and the BAM have ringing artifacts that sound quite different from the original.

There's a 1/4" jack that can be switched between MIDI I/O, expression pedal input, tap tempo, and preset switcher.

Here's the full manual:

https://www.meris.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Meris-Mercury7-Manual- v2.pdf


still do not understand how it is an I/O in one jack. confused
how do you connect it? and to what?
kay_k
sorry, brain patched faulty.

why can't I delete my own posts?
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Iungo module is CV-to-MIDI, uses Korg specification. Also upcoming Delptronics will be changeable via software.


added ..
kay_k
So I just had one of those ideas you get when you have something important to do but you rather let your head drift somewhere else:






it's just two Thonk PJ3410 soldered together as passive gender changer. Easy as f**k
Paranormal Patroler
The solution is easy, which means that the problem is stupid to begin with. ~sigh~
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
The solution is easy, which means that the problem is stupid to begin with. ~sigh~


Dead Banana

absolutely. someone has fucked this up for us. let's find him!
hyper
kay_k
prove of concept:

revtor
Another one for the list:
Faderfox SC4 uses 3.5 mini for MIDI. Not sure of the pinout.
Paranormal Patroler
revtor wrote:
Another one for the list:
Faderfox SC4 uses 3.5 mini for MIDI. Not sure of the pinout.


He was actually the first one who did that in the recent years. Before Korg or Arturia! The mapping is not Korg though.
kay_k
Malekko replied to my inquiry - Arturia (Novation) config
1010music
Thanks for putting this together.

I can confirm that the Novation Launchpad Pro uses the Arturia style. I'm not sure about the other Novation gear.
Sandrine
The SDS Digital Reflex LiveLoop has MIDI in behind the panel stereo TRS with switchable polarity on tip & ring, ground on collar.
The SDS_VCO has MIDI output option behind the panel stereo TRS with hot tip, signal ring, and ground on collar.
The SDS WiFiMIDI MIDI output uses a mono plug with hot+signal on tip and ground on collar on the panel.
subdo
kay_k wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
The solution is easy, which means that the problem is stupid to begin with. ~sigh~


Dead Banana

absolutely. someone has fucked this up for us. let's find him!
hyper


The someone in this case is Korg. They always do this shit. Same thing with the Hz/v "standard" and the weird sync with the volcas. We were warning about this years ago. Once Korg broke convention all of a sudden it became a choice manufacturers had to make and the incompatibilities started rolling in.

http://cdm.link/2015/08/used-stereo-minijack-cables-midi/

Redneck
kay_k
Sandrine wrote:
The SDS Digital Reflex LiveLoop has MIDI in behind the panel stereo TRS with switchable polarity on tip & ring, ground on collar.
The SDS_VCO has MIDI output option behind the panel stereo TRS with hot tip, signal ring, and ground on collar.
The SDS WiFiMIDI MIDI output uses a mono plug with hot+signal on tip and ground on collar on the panel.


added!
For the WifiMidi .. when the user uses a stereo cable the ring floats, right?
Or do you use a jack that puts GND there?
doesn't that mean that the Optocoupler LED doesn't light up? I'm a bit worried that you can't connect it straight to another 3.5mm midi with a stereo cable.
kay_k
So .. I thought the third way is not possible but I was proven wrong!
I ordered just a MFB Nanozwerg Pro because it's cheap and I really wanted to know.
They chose out of rolling the dice maybe or idiocy to put one pin of the loop on the sleeve, the tip being the other. The ring goes nowhere it seems.
The SQ1 gets its VCC shorted to GND that way and switches off. The Beatstep Pro just does nothing.
man am I pissed about that.

Dead Banana

The sound of that machine is nice btw. but I'll send it back for this shit.
flashheart
kay_k wrote:
So .. I thought the third way is not possible but I was proven wrong!
I ordered just a MFB Nanozwerg Pro because it's cheap and I really wanted to know.
They chose out of rolling the dice maybe or idiocy to put one pin of the loop on the sleeve, the tip being the other. The ring goes nowhere it seems.
The SQ1 gets its VCC shorted to GND that way and switches off. The Beatstep Pro just does nothing.

But really, what were they supposed to do? (well at least follow one 'standard' I suppose...)

Frankly, none of these interfaces should ever be referred to as MIDI, if it's not a DIN plug it isn't MIDI. I wish review sites would stop referring to them as MIDI. They're not anywhere in the MIDI specification, and the fact they're all different means nobody has specified anything and it's not a standard.

If it's not in the spec it's not MIDI, end of. very frustrating
kay_k
flashheart wrote:
kay_k wrote:
So .. I thought the third way is not possible but I was proven wrong!
I ordered just a MFB Nanozwerg Pro because it's cheap and I really wanted to know.
They chose out of rolling the dice maybe or idiocy to put one pin of the loop on the sleeve, the tip being the other. The ring goes nowhere it seems.
The SQ1 gets its VCC shorted to GND that way and switches off. The Beatstep Pro just does nothing.

But really, what were they supposed to do? (well at least follow one 'standard' I suppose...)

Frankly, none of these interfaces should ever be referred to as MIDI, if it's not a DIN plug it isn't MIDI. I wish review sites would stop referring to them as MIDI. They're not anywhere in the MIDI specification, and the fact they're all different means nobody has specified anything and it's not a standard.

If it's not in the spec it's not MIDI, end of. very frustrating


technically it is MIDI - it's the protocol and the physical layer (except maybe MFB) just a different connector - that might go into the next revision of the standard. stop splitting hairs Guinness ftw!
But really - if you make a module in 2016/17 with TRS Midi, would't you at least check what other people do?
When I had the Idea to the WK3 and learned that Korg is doing things differently I was devastated. BUT AT LEAST I HAVE MADE MY HOMEWORK: read about it, thought about it and made the changes.
MFB clearly has not or they decided to make things super incompatible on purpose.
Shledge
I don't think people will be buying them with the thought that you can put arturia/korg MIDI connectors into it, especially when multiple standards already exist. Nothing is compatible without DIY because you know, there isn't much thought apart from being adapters.

In fact this is the first time I've seen someone whinge about this, let alone send modules back over it - why not use it's own connector or roll your own?
kay_k
Shledge wrote:
I don't think people will be buying them with the thought that you can put arturia/korg MIDI connectors into it, especially when multiple standards already exist. Nothing is compatible without DIY because you know, there isn't much thought apart from being adapters.

In fact this is the first time I've seen someone whinge about this, let alone send modules back over it - why not use it's own connector or roll your own?


well because ideally we could all resort to 1€ cables and be done. No soldering or buying (including) of 5€ adapters (even 2 if both are different) AND a cable AND remembering which adapter goes where. Then you have DIN jacks and fat midi cables hanging over your rack.
Being able to just patch would be fun, no?

First time you've heard it is because it is relatively new but the number of modules/gear with this sort of jack is growing by the day. Soon it will be a bigger problem.

I was more whining about the fact that MFB decided to use the sleeve of a cable for anything else than plain GND. This is just wrong. Also when there two different ways to do something in an industry to do something WHY do you need a third?
going further: there are 3 signals and three places on the connector, this makes it 6 combinations now. Before today I thought it's only 2 (believing sleeve is shield/GND).
Shledge
AFAIK Expert Sleepers uses a similar method that MFB uses too. That said, MFB is no stranger to weird standards - my MFB Synth II for example uses a stereo input for CV/gate, which you need a splitter if you want to control them.

MIDI cables going straight in would be ideal, but it's obvious it's not seen as important when most people will just use CV/Gate. I'd more likely just DIY some adapters if I really wanted MIDI, but I haven't really needed to outside my BSP.
Paranormal Patroler
It is important because if everyone used one standard we could all use TRS cables and be done with DIN.
Shledge
The use is nonexistent outside the modular world, really.
Paranormal Patroler
Shledge wrote:
The use is nonexistent outside the modular world, really.


So FaderFox, who is the first person I know who did this, doesn't count apparently? It's happening whether some people like it or not. Because it's convenient.
flashheart
Shledge wrote:
The use is nonexistent outside the modular world, really.

Apart from Korg, Novation, Arturia...
Shledge
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
So FaderFox, who is the first person I know who did this, doesn't count apparently?


Not really, no. Pretty much all non-modular synths use DIN sockets or in recent years, USB MIDI. Globally enforcing an upcoming standard that's pretty much exclusive to the niche market of modular synths is a bit silly.

Quote:

It's happening whether some people like it or not. Because it's convenient.


If people are willing to ditch vintage synths with DIN-based MIDI.

Personally I think having it all TRS would make sense, along with advancing the MIDI to modern requirements (hurry up MIDI 2.0), but again there is a reason why it has stayed the same for so long.
Paranormal Patroler
Shledge wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
So FaderFox, who is the first person I know who did this, doesn't count apparently?


Not really, no. Pretty much all non-modular synths use DIN sockets or in recent years, USB MIDI. Globally enforcing an upcoming standard that's pretty much exclusive to the niche market of modular synths is a bit silly.


That's why you have TRS-to-MIDI cables. By the way, MIDI Association is making the TRS MIDI into standard so you should take that into account.

Quote:
Quote:

It's happening whether some people like it or not. Because it's convenient.


If people are willing to ditch vintage synths with DIN-based MIDI.

Personally I think having it all TRS would make sense, along with advancing the MIDI to modern requirements (hurry up MIDI 2.0), but again there is a reason why it has stayed the same for so long.
[/quote]

Again, it's not going to replace DIN but it's happening either way, same as smaller MIDI DIN options are available for some devices. The reason why MIDI is still at 1.0 has nothing to do with the plugs - the discussions for going 2.0 has been there for ages, it's not as simple as making your own MIDI-to-TRS cable which everyone with a solder gun can do.

This has a lot of perks which are not easy to diss: the MIDI plus are now smaller and it's easier to patch MIDI cables between devices. With so many small devices around (SQ1, PO's etc) I can see this TRS replacement becoming very common. It already begun outside the modular world - it's just that Eurorack needs it because of space.
kay_k
added the LPZW Schleußig
kay_k
added Flame Quad-CV-Recorder
kay_k
added Flame 4Vox 2016 version, not yet updated on MG but the new version has a 3.5mm jack in Arturia style.
kay_k
added 1010 Music Toolbox
Paranormal Patroler
The SDS VCO can be soldered either way, so it's not Arturia.
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
The SDS VCO can be soldered either way, so it's not Arturia.


ok!
kay_k
I've added Twisted Electron to the list. Has anyone an idea what pin config they are using?
kay_k
I contacted Twisted Electron .. no reply :(
kay_k
Regarding MFB here some useful info in this thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2781397#2781397
kay_k
Added the Pittsburgh Sequence Designer 128
kay_k
I have worked my own table on the Superbooth18 and haven't had the time to walk around looking for new modules with MIDI.
So if you have seen new modules please reply so I can add them.

I went to twisted electrons and asked them about their polarity but forgot his reply.
brandonlogic
Zetaohm - FLXS1 Voltage Sequencer (Korg pole)
kay_k
brandonlogic wrote:
Zetaohm - FLXS1 Voltage Sequencer (Korg pole)


oh, I've seen that around before and forgot to add it. Thanks.
Paranormal Patroler
New Pittsburgh sequencer is Arturia. According to them MIDI association decided that they're standardizing the Arturia mapping.

Korg is too busy fighting with the manufacturers who don't appreciate TRS MIDI to begin with hihi Weird choice if you ask me.
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
New Pittsburgh sequencer is Arturia. According to them MIDI association decided that they're standardizing the Arturia mapping.

Korg is too busy fighting with the manufacturers who don't appreciate TRS MIDI to begin with hihi Weird choice if you ask me.


tbh I am surprised to see that many "polyphony" modules nowadays that don't offer at least a rudimentary midi support.
It would really mean less cables in the system, while it would only take a jack.
If I were to make a multi VCO or ENV I'd add this and maybe even a thru port for daisy chaining.
av500
trig31: Arturia
kay_k
av500 wrote:
trig31: Arturia

top!
euromorcego
kay_k wrote:

- Faderfox SC4 (I/O; Arturia?)

it is tip = pin 4, ring = pin 5, the Arturia adapter works.
Paranormal Patroler
kay, are you gonna make adaptors ?
Morphology
The new Dreadbox Lil' Erebus has a 3.5mm MIDI In.

I've bought a kit, but haven't built it yet, so I don't know the polarity of the MIDI Jack.

Looking at screenshots of the PCB, it looks like it's Mono (Tip-Sleeve) Style, rather than TRS?

When I get a moment I'll check.

Edit: I Checked:

T: 5
R: 4
S: N/C

Morph
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
kay, are you gonna make adaptors ?


those little gender changer ones? dunno if it is worth the work, I can't see to make money with them.
kay_k
Morphology wrote:
The new Dreadbox Lil' Erebus has a 3.5mm MIDI In.

I've bought a kit, but haven't built it yet, so I don't know the polarity of the MIDI Jack.

Looking at screenshots of the PCB, it looks like it's Mono (Tip-Sleeve) Style, rather than TRS?

When I get a moment I'll check.

Edit: I Checked:

T: 5
R: 4
S: N/C

Morph


thanks..
I think that makes it Korg standard but my brain doesn't cope with the heat so well.
strangegravity
euromorcego wrote:
kay_k wrote:

- Faderfox SC4 (I/O; Arturia?)

it is tip = pin 4, ring = pin 5, the Arturia adapter works.


Is this correct? I'm going to slap a full sized jack on the side of my case and solder it to the bottom of an Arturia style 3.5mm MIDI. Which pins do I need to connect? I could put my cable on the meter and find out but if anyone knows ..........
strangegravity
MIDI.org says Arturia goes like this:

cathmart
so i'm having trouble connecting my Beatstep pro MIDI cable to the MFB Nanozwerg Pro MIDI.

I see from this thread its an issue of
Polarity TRS Arturia:
and
Polarity non-TRS (a.k.a. MFB):

so what can I do to connect these two?
Seaweed Sound
Look for a TRS polarity reversing adapter or make a custom TRS cable with the polarity (pins) swapped.

A better solution is perhaps to get a MIDI to TRS adapter for each device and then connect with a standard MIDI cable. That way if you decide to use alternate MIDI setup in the future you can always connect anything you want or you can easily get MIDI cable of desired length should the physical layout change.
kay_k
cathmart wrote:
so i'm having trouble connecting my Beatstep pro MIDI cable to the MFB Nanozwerg Pro MIDI.

I see from this thread its an issue of
Polarity TRS Arturia:
and
Polarity non-TRS (a.k.a. MFB):

so what can I do to connect these two?


you can just use the arturia TRS-DIN adapter and the MFB TS-DIN adapter and standard DIN MIDI cable between them.
Or you make your own adapter cable (connect as said above, measure with a diode tester which pin goes where, make custom cable to this measurement)
strangegravity
strangegravity wrote:
MIDI.org says Arturia goes like this:



If I add a through jack next to this would I just jumper the same pins?
SOPiiAC
The new OP-Z oplab module has trs midi in and out.
kay_k
strangegravity wrote:
strangegravity wrote:
MIDI.org says Arturia goes like this:



If I add a through jack next to this would I just jumper the same pins?


Yes and no - It might work when split passively or maybe not, depending on your MIDI inputs. Some require more current then others. Usually a thru is actively buffered post optocoupler.
You could just buy our WK3 thru module wink
kay_k
SOPiiAC wrote:
The new OP-Z oplab module has trs midi in and out.


added! Also Elektron Model:Samples

I find it annoying that no manufacturer cares to tell us which polarity they are using. I find this should be part of their Tech Specs!
(I assume most that comes out now uses the new standard)
Paranormal Patroler
My experience has been that most new products allow you to switch between polarities. You should add the mxmxmx C2M module in that list. It allows you to switch Input/Output separately.
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
My experience has been that most new products allow you to switch between polarities. You should add the mxmxmx C2M module in that list. It allows you to switch Input/Output separately.


oooh - this is a nice module! Do you have one?
Paranormal Patroler
kay_k wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
My experience has been that most new products allow you to switch between polarities. You should add the mxmxmx C2M module in that list. It allows you to switch Input/Output separately.


oooh - this is a nice module! Do you have one?


Yes, I've been testing it for max. A second one is on the way. It's definitely down my alley hihi
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
kay_k wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
My experience has been that most new products allow you to switch between polarities. You should add the mxmxmx C2M module in that list. It allows you to switch Input/Output separately.


oooh - this is a nice module! Do you have one?


Yes, I've been testing it for max. A second one is on the way. It's definitely down my alley hihi


ordered a PCB/panel set .. plan to use it for triggering chords on my midi synths.
monads
Few additions to "non-modular"

Twisted Electrons - TherapSid MKII
Twisted Electrons - hapiNES L
kay_k
monads wrote:
Few additions to "non-modular"

Twisted Electrons - TherapSid MKII
Twisted Electrons - hapiNES L


thanks!

also Shakmat Clock o'Pawn
robduarte
FYI:

http://xoxomodular.com/midixo.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_D1JTWoROE
SOPiiAC
robduarte wrote:
FYI:

http://xoxomodular.com/midixo.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_D1JTWoROE


The Expert Sleepers integration is really cool but I think I'd go for the LPZW WK3 over the xo. 5 configurable trs midi outs is amazing and too hard to pass up.
iheartmodular
westlicht per|former has midi too

thumbs up
kay_k
SOPiiAC wrote:
robduarte wrote:
FYI:

http://xoxomodular.com/midixo.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_D1JTWoROE


The Expert Sleepers integration is really cool but I think I'd go for the LPZW WK3 over the xo. 5 configurable trs midi outs is amazing and too hard to pass up.


Thank you!

also .. a simple convertion can be done with a cross over adapter for 2 € as shown in this thread a few pages before.

I am not sure if my WK3 would work as a breakout for Expert Sleepers stuff but the new PCB (not yet for sale) has a I/O on the back (works with my modules and MI Grids for instance) and I am waiting for Os to tell me if it would work with his stuff.

[EDIT:] talked to Os .. WK3 will work as a 5 output port MIDI out for his stuff (leaving the WK3 input defunkt) but not as an input without addional hardware.
Roni
Update for you - Westlicht Performer is Type A (or Korg, if you like)


.
kay_k
Roni wrote:
Update for you - Westlicht Performer is Type A (or Korg, if you like)


.


cool - thanks!
xoxo_modular
SOPiiAC wrote:
robduarte wrote:
FYI:

http://xoxomodular.com/midixo.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_D1JTWoROE


The Expert Sleepers integration is really cool but I think I'd go for the LPZW WK3 over the xo. 5 configurable trs midi outs is amazing and too hard to pass up.


Cool - this is actually the first I'm hearing of the WK3 (it should be in the list at the top of this thread!). I agree that a MIDI in to 5 switchable outputs is a great idea. I think there's room for both of these modules in the world, though. I made MIDIXO to solve 2 specific problems as simply as I could - (1) to convert a single MIDI signal and (2) to be a switchable TRS in/out breakout for disting mk4 (and also FH-2 and General CV). The idea wasn't to make a 1-to-many MIDI-thru, which I'm assuming was the goal of WK3. The things that were important to me were that it was easy to switch back and forth with easy-to-use switches, the idea that you can use it however you want if you enable the disting midi soft thru, and that it was a passive thing that didn't take another spot on my bus board. I think some people want those things, some people want the ability to go from 1 in to 5 outs, some want it all! NBD, these are different needs/wants. In short, it's the usual answer on muffs - buy both! hyper

Rob (yes, same guy)
XOXO Modular
kay_k
Welcome to Muffs Rob, your thing makes 100% sense for the ExpertSleepers stuff. Very useful module
One thing that it also does and you haven't mentioned yet is: you can hook it up to Os' official breakout module to have a dual 3.5mm to DIN adapter wink
xoxo_modular
kay_k wrote:
Welcome to Muffs Rob, your thing makes 100% sense for the ExpertSleepers stuff. Very useful module
One thing that it also does and you haven't mentioned yet is: you can hook it up to Os' official breakout module to have a dual 3.5mm to DIN adapter wink


Brilliant. I hadn't even thought of this!

Thank you
Rob
kay_k
Organelle 2 and Zoia added..
TRS Midi is getting big
robduarte
The manual for the Organelle M says that it uses the MIDI TRS Type A spec.
kay_k
robduarte wrote:
The manual for the Organelle M says that it uses the MIDI TRS Type A spec.


thank you
dani
I'm not sure if the original post has the new Midi standard right.

According to the Midi Association it is the KORG way (which is often called the type A on commercial stores)

Tip = 5 (source)

Ring =4 (sink)

Sleeve = 2


CDM also thinks of KORG as the new standard

the OP-Z oplab module uses this (KORG) standard, I tried it with Arturia (Beatstep Pro) adapters and it didn't work until I swapped Ring-Tip


the Expressive E touché uses the Arturia standard

wasn't there anywhere a commercial adapter-cable, that switched between the two configurations? (male-female 3.5 trs cable would be perfect)


here is a lot more information: https://www.midi.org/articles-old/updated-how-to-make-your-own-3-5mm-m ini-stereo-trs-to-midi-5-pin-din-cables
av500
dani wrote:
I'm not sure if the original post has the new Midi standard right.

According to the Midi Association it is the KORG way (which is often called the type A on commercial stores)


yes, the "official" MIDI standard is the "type A" KORG way in terms of wiring, but only if you use a 2.5mm jack and plug, so even KORG does not fully adhere to the standard...
kay_k
oooh shit - cheers folks!
the kind of mistake one makes when not checking something that one believes to have heard some months ago.

btw.. I've also learned that there is indeed another method of implementing auto crossover inputs and is also way more cost sensitive than mine. So I really do not understand why this isn't the standard.

2.5mm jacks might have benn better so ppl wouldn't accidentally mistake it for audio but this ship sailed soooo so long ago.
av500
kay_k wrote:
oooh shit - cheers folks!
the kind of mistake one makes when not checking something that one believes to have heard some months ago.

btw.. I've also learned that there is indeed another method of implementing auto crossover inputs that is way more cost sensitive than mine. So I really do not understand why this isn't the standard.

2.5mm jacks might have benn better so ppl wouldn't accidentally mistake it for audio but this ship sailed soooo so long ago.


if only there were good and reliable Thonki style 2.5mm jacks. until these arrive I will happily use illegal 3.5mm, especially since you can do combined clock/MIDI in and clock/MIDI out jacks...
Sandrine
I don't much like the "hot tip" type of config because as it's being plugged in, it basically shorts hot, albeit there's a resistor there, to the ground.
Also I you accidentally plug it into an audio input, there's a huge DC click.
Korg is the more popular though so there it is

One thing that peaves me off is manufacturers connecting the ground on MIDI inputs. That makes a ground loop and that line isn't even used!
I have two situations like that in my studio and ended up making ground isolated patches to stop the annoying buzz
1-TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch 2
2-Beatstep pro (well there it can't be helped!)
Paranormal Patroler
kay_k wrote:
TRS Midi is getting big


Called it! applause
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
kay_k wrote:
TRS Midi is getting big


Called it! applause


well, I was the idiot putting out a TRS only Midi Thru as his second product Mr. Green
Paranormal Patroler
kay_k wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
kay_k wrote:
TRS Midi is getting big


Called it! applause


well, I was the idiot putting out a TRS only Midi Thru as his second product Mr. Green


Mr. Green Still waiting for a MIDI merge!
av500
here:

kay_k
av500 wrote:
here:



hahahahaha

you troll
Paranormal Patroler
TRS version works as a MIDI splitter though. lol
kay_k
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
TRS version works as a MIDI splitter though. lol


depending on the # and make of receivers tho
Paranormal Patroler
kay_k wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
TRS version works as a MIDI splitter though. lol


depending on the # and make of receivers tho


True. Your 2hp module is more than valuable, considering that it can also swap between the two formats and it takes almost zero space.
metamorphmuses
I recently bought a Polyend Poly 2 and just started using it. It comes with one MIDI DIN to 3.5 mm TRS adapter cable. I decided to buy a couple more, and went with cables meant for Make Noise 0-Coast. It turns out these are incompatible. I surmise that Make Noise uses Type A, i.e. the type Arturia uses, i.e. data maps to ring.

I contacted Polyend and promptly received a response; in fact, they sent me a diagram (see attached). Polyend uses the type in which data maps to tip, i.e. the type Korg uses, i.e. Type B.

Paranormal Patroler
I think MakeNoise uses the same type that Korg uses.

Compare http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/manuals/0-coast_manual.pdf with Korg's little bits diagram from MIDI association https://www.midi.org/articles-old/updated-how-to-make-your-own-3-5mm-m ini-stereo-trs-to-midi-5-pin-din-cables

I'm fairly sure the one you're depicting above is the Korg type, and I'm also fairly certain Tony went with the Korg Type as we discussed this a long time ago when the 0 Coast first came out during a super booth, back when I was trying to get all manufacturers to adhere to the Korg Type (but failed miserably hihi )
kay_k
MN is most def Korg standard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A_fZDx196s
"connected using a simple TRS cable"

I've put down Polyend Poly 2 as Type Arturia (also according that pic) - please someone check my logic here cos I'm tired in the moment.
talkboxert
The pocket operator modular 16 talks to my 0-coast that suddenly has a working midi interface. It's peanut butter jelly time! Thought somebody fried it in the euro coversion but seems hè just supplied me with type B cables. Sooooo much fun but I guess that’s One for the Korg/type a list
kay_k
talkboxert wrote:
The pocket operator modular 16 talks to my 0-coast that suddenly has a working midi interface. It's peanut butter jelly time! Thought somebody fried it in the euro coversion but seems hè just supplied me with type B cables. Sooooo much fun but I guess that’s One for the Korg/type a list


wait what .. that thing has MIDI ?
I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT, how awesome is this. I need one now!

[Edit:]
Korg is correct. They have the info in the online manual:
https://teenage.engineering/guides/po-modular/16
I find that super cool, still don't get why not all manufacturers publish this info.
tokidoki
I hope this message is not out of subject.

Could you, please, edit the initial list according to the MIDI Association informations ?

It could help to clarify this ink bottle (bouteille à encre) topic.

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/updated-how-to-make-your-own-3-5mm-m ini-stereo-trs-to-midi-5-pin-din-cables

If A is B and B is A we are in the 1984 world, confusion and despair.

Little confusion and very light despair I know, but we need lights.

Thank you for your work around this MIDI enigma.
kay_k
Salut! C'est vrais!

d'oh! corrected, thanks!

tokidoki wrote:
I hope this message is not out of subject.

Could you, please, edit the initial list according to the MIDI Association informations ?

It could help to clarify this ink bottle (bouteille à encre) topic.

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/updated-how-to-make-your-own-3-5mm-m ini-stereo-trs-to-midi-5-pin-din-cables

If A is B and B is A we are in the 1984 world, confusion and despair.

Little confusion and very light despair I know, but we need lights.

Thank you for your work around this MIDI enigma.
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