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1BIT Multitap Delay by FEEDBACK
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author 1BIT Multitap Delay by FEEDBACK
strat-1
www.feedbackmodules.com



1BIT Multitap Delay is an adaptation of classic 1bit delays from the 80s to eurorack with many interesting add-ons.
As the name states this module is a digital delay with 1BIT AD/DA and no CPU inside, similar in design with old delays like : Ursa Major, ADA and Effectron.
Even if it's digital, the module have a warm sound with analog BBD feel, but without the high loss on long delay times.
With two independent taps and outputs you can play with those classic running arps.
For example you can have a long delay on the TAP1 output, using x8 setup, and synced short delay on the TAP2 output, using x4 setup.
You can listen both taps on the mix output, or you can put them in stereo with independent outputs. You have a nice stereo effect even if you use x8 taps on both outputs.
The maximum time is 750ms-800ms. I calibrated the module in a way you can obtain dirty long delay sounds, so you can also use the module in the noise area.
With the LOOP functions you can freeze the sound, obtaining nice crazy effects. Also you can do that in sync with a gate in input.

The module uses 64K old school srams to delay the sound.
The DIY project will need 8 x 4164 64K memories, widely available on ebay. They were used a lot in old computers like commodore, spectrum, also in all the delays of the era, so a big stock of them still exists.

ATTENTION! AFTER BUYING LARGE QUANTITIES OF MEMORY CHIPS, I DISCOVERED 20-25% OF THEM ARE NOISY, DAMAGED OR NONFUNCTIONING.
I RECOMMEND YOU TO ORDER 15-20PCS. OF THEM AND CHOOSE THE WORKING ONES AS EXPLAINED IN THE MANUAL.
(this is common for all the different lots I purchased, it's depending on how they were stored, handled, electrostatic discharges etc.)





There are 3 types of kit available on my website :

KIT1 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel
KIT2 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel, 8 x 4164 SRAM Chips (tested)
KIT3 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel, 8 x 4164 SRAM Chips (tested)
8 x Minijack sockets, 2 x 8 pos switches, 1 x Momentary push switch
7 x 10KB 9mm pots, 3 x 50KA 9mm pots, 1 x 100KB 9mm pot, 1 x 500KB 9mm pots, 11 X Cream Knobs 1900h type, 3 x Big Cream Knob 1510 type
3 x 3 way header MALE, 3 x 3 way header FEMALE, 2 x 6 way header MALE, 2 x 6 way header FEMALE, 3 x 14 way header MALE, 3 x 14 way header FEMALE

Thank you Future Music Magazine and DivKid for this really well explained video :



[s]https://soundcloud.com/strat1/1bitdelay-synth[/s]
[s]https://soundcloud.com/strat1/1bitdelay-drums[/s]
sduck
Sign me up! That's a lot of chips.
strat-1
sduck wrote:
Sign me up! That's a lot of chips.


The project is not so expensive as it appears, except the memory ics, all the chips are classic logic ics (cds), very cheap. Also there is 1xLM13700.
latigid on
Looks like a very nice creation!
BugBrand
Interesting! Early digi-delays are very interesting - the schematics always made my head spin a bit.
I think a design like this could benefit from being a bit more spacious, layout-wise. The usual Euro issue!
And perhaps one can add an insert point on the feedback paths? Being able to EQ there is very useful for delays.

Great work!
strat-1
BugBrand wrote:
Interesting! Early digi-delays are very interesting - the schematics always made my head spin a bit.
I think a design like this could benefit from being a bit more spacious, layout-wise. The usual Euro issue!
And perhaps one can add an insert point on the feedback paths? Being able to EQ there is very useful for delays.

Great work!


The hard/soft/off switches, are EQ switches. I tried various pot combinations, and in the end I kept the switch version. Hard cuts the highs giving a bbd feel
to the effect. Middle pass a some highs and off let a lot off digital garbage to come thru.
DisappearHere
What's the depth of the module (at the present revision)?

Looks great, I would definitely be keen.
strat-1
DisappearHere wrote:
What's the depth of the module (at the present revision)?

Looks great, I would definitely be keen.


Just like TWO59 Shaper - 48mm with power connector inserted
tobb
damn,awesome! we're not worthy
dubtoms
we're not worthy Would you mind sharing the list of CD40XX ics used in this project ? I'd like to check what I already got smile
SoundPool
oof, first eurorack project to actually tempt me in a long while. love this kind of sound.
strat-1
dubtoms wrote:
we're not worthy Would you mind sharing the list of CD40XX ics used in this project ? I'd like to check what I already got smile


1pcs RC4558
3pcs TL071
4pcs TL072
4pcs TL074
1pcs LM311
1pcs LM13700
3pcs CD4013
3pcs CD4015
3pcs CD4016
2pcs CD4019
1pcs CD4046
3pcs CD4049
1pcs CD4051
2pcs CD4520
8pcs MN4164P or KM4164B or other 64K sram with the same pinout
strat-1
SoundPool wrote:
oof, first eurorack project to actually tempt me in a long while. love this kind of sound.


I have several 80s rack unit delays, I made this project because I always wanted something like this in my eurorack.
I'm not satisfied by other euro delays I have, the PT delays are a bit too dirty, the pro delays with dacs and arms sound a bit too metallic and the long time bbd ones losses a lot of highs on long delays.
BugBrand
Glad you've not peppered the design with tantalum caps across the power lines like the old classics!
strat-1
BugBrand wrote:
Glad you've not peppered the design with tantalum caps across the power lines like the old classics!


Tantalum caps are dying in time. I prefer Panasonic FC and Nichicon UTT
BugBrand
Yes, my point (not clearly made).
I've resurrected a couple of nice machines due to such failures.
dubtoms
Thanks for the list Andrei, I just found 11 NEC 4164 ics (which seem to be pin compatible with yours) in one of my drawers so I'm definitely building this ! w00t
strat-1
dubtoms wrote:
Thanks for the list Andrei, I just found 11 NEC 4164 ics (which seem to be pin compatible with yours) in one of my drawers so I'm definitely building this ! w00t


take good care how you handle the pins, you can burn them with electrical discharges from the hands smile
dubtoms
Thanks for the warning, I've been spinning some records today so I may have built some static and killed a few without knowing it hmmm.....
spneca
This is great. I'm in for one.
windspirit
Dude yes,love the sound and love to have some variety in DIY from the pt based delays (nothing wrong with those but nice to have options). Any chance you will be selling the memory chips so that we know we are getting chips that have been tested and work?
strat-1
windspirit wrote:
Dude yes,love the sound and love to have some variety in DIY from the pt based delays (nothing wrong with those but nice to have options). Any chance you will be selling the memory chips so that we know we are getting chips that have been tested and work?


I'm trying to secure memories for kits. The PCBs are almost ready and still working on the manual, BOM etc.
Dimitree
I'm curious to understand how this work. I'm aware of 80's digital delays with no cpu and only dram+adc+dac and all the logic needed for addressing, but they usually employ 12 bit converters. How can you do it with 1 bit converters? And what's the sample rate?
sduck
Cool! I just bought a lot of MN4164P on ebay. Looking forward to this!
Swyndger
Wow! Great! Looking forward to build it smile

EDIT: Oh, I see 16 MB8264A-12 laying arround here. Pin layout seems to be the same ... maybe they are OK?
loderbast
great work. i am interested for sure
strat-1
Dimitree wrote:
I'm curious to understand how this work. I'm aware of 80's digital delays with no cpu and only dram+adc+dac and all the logic needed for addressing, but they usually employ 12 bit converters. How can you do it with 1 bit converters? And what's the sample rate?


I will do some explanation in the manual, and a block diagram.
The converter works at high freq to have a good sample rate 200Khz-1Mhz.
I put some trimmers at the time knob, so if someone want to go under 200Khz, the delay will go in noise area with blips and cracks.
rithma
I cant wait to get my hands on this one.
Building the Two59 has been so enjoyable, I want to collect the whole line.
Wow!
maltemark
Yes! Love the Deltalab sound! IMHO bringing delta shit to euro is an act of heroism
strat-1
maltemark wrote:
Yes! Love the Deltalab sound! IMHO bringing delta shit to euro is an act of heroism


The prototyping was crazy smile , but I wanted this sound so much in euro!

tassie tiger
This is now on my list, not the prototype mind! we're not worthy

Is there a due date for PCB/Panel combo? Not that I'm super keen or anything.
strat-1
tassie tiger wrote:
This is now on my list, not the prototype mind! we're not worthy

Is there a due date for PCB/Panel combo? Not that I'm super keen or anything.


I just released the PCBs in production, the revisioned ones.
With production time, and after soldering some of them to test the lot, it will take 2 weeks.
I'm still trying to make a deal for 64k srams, I don't know if I will have them in time.
kashmir
Really like it! Will take one for sure.
paulstone
interesting thumbs up
prosperity
Interested!
secrethero303
This looks and sounds great. I'll be in for one for sure.
daynehacks
WOW! Guinness ftw!

Definitely going to be building one of these!
thetwlo
Excellent! but didn't the Deltalab Effectrons use delta modulation?
Regardless, fantastic!!! Love the old Digital delays.
and if that's a "lot of chips" see the old digital delays, this is as few as it gets!
oberkorn
(very) interested in one of these hyper
Cheradenine
Also very curious about this one !
What's the minimum delay time obtainable ?
I like Karplus-Strong as much as dirty-long delay sounds Mr. Green
sduck
Just got these from ebay - I think I paid 10$ for them. Hope they'll work...

Koryo
sduck wrote:
Just got these from ebay - I think I paid 10$ for them. Hope they'll work...


lol! I did the exact same thing in preparation. However, it looks like you got some -12 and a -16 in there too. If I remember correctly those are different timings.
strat-1
Cheradenine wrote:
Also very curious about this one !
What's the minimum delay time obtainable ?
I like Karplus-Strong as much as dirty-long delay sounds Mr. Green


Yes. You can obtain from interesting flaging to 800ms delay.
The fun is you can setup one tap to 1 memory so you will have flaging, and one tap to 8 memory and you will have flaging combined with long delay.
Paradigm X
sduck wrote:
Sign me up! That's a lot of chips.


you (or anyone else) doing this in 5u? or euro. idlove to piggy back your panel if you are... help thumbs up

looks awesome but very daunting for 5u rewiring job.

cheers
strat-1
Paradigm X wrote:
sduck wrote:
Sign me up! That's a lot of chips.


you (or anyone else) doing this in 5u? or euro. idlove to piggy back your panel if you are... help thumbs up

looks awesome but very daunting for 5u rewiring job.

cheers


I can give you the hole diagram, I can't do this in 5U.
I do panels only in big quantity,a couple of 5U panels will cost me a lot.
Altitude909
I'm in! (on any non PT2399 delay)
sduck
Paradigm X wrote:
sduck wrote:
Sign me up! That's a lot of chips.


you (or anyone else) doing this in 5u? or euro. idlove to piggy back your panel if you are... help thumbs up


I've kind of been out of the 5U conversion game for a while - the 5U system has reached it's theoretical limits of size without imploding in on itself. We don't need a singularity in the back bedroom. And my euro system has reached critical mass - more than 2 cabinets of stuff, so that's how I'm doing it currently. Although designing a 5U panel might be an interesting project - hmmm...
latigid on
BTW, is the proposed Euro panel PCB material or aluminium? Sorry if that's already answered.
strat-1
latigid on wrote:
BTW, is the proposed Euro panel PCB material or aluminium? Sorry if that's already answered.


It's black pcb with gold routing, so it will not oxidize.
audiohawk
Count me in for 1 set. Thank you we're not worthy
Paradigm X
Thanks Sduck and Strat-1. Ill probably buy a kit or two and think about it. the other option is a (stereo?) rack mount version. it does sound incredible.

cheers
lessavyfav
This sounds great. I'd love to get in
strat-1
Paradigm X wrote:
Thanks Sduck and Strat-1. Ill probably buy a kit or two and think about it. the other option is a (stereo?) rack mount version. it does sound incredible.

cheers


You have two independent outputs for tap1 and tap2, each with it's own DA.
Also you have one mix out for both taps.
If you want stereo you can put L channel in tap1 and R channel in tap2.
You can put the tap1 in 8 position so you will have a long delay and tap2 in 4 position so you will have a short delay synced with tap2. You will have a nice stereo effect.
Also you can put both taps on the same position, because of the design and so many parts, small latency in das etc., you will have also a stereo effect, the channels will not be perfectly identical like a delay with arms and modern adcs.
Koryo
I've got my em-en-fours. Give me something to write on man!

Let's do this!
m0d01
Yeah, I'm all over this one. Consider me officially in for 2anel and board sets fof this.

Chips and dip!
calaveras
Im interested. Seems like lately I'm a sucker for kits with chips you have to source.

Couple questions.
Is this going to be adaptive Delta modulation or Delta modulation like Delta Labs Effectrons?
I own a couple of those. Huge fan.

Also, the internal modulation, is that a sine, or triangle or?
I like saw or reverse saw myself.

Oh yeah, is this all through hole, or are there some tweezer-ass smt in there too?
strat-1
calaveras wrote:
Im interested. Seems like lately I'm a sucker for kits with chips you have to source.

Couple questions.
Is this going to be adaptive Delta modulation or Delta modulation like Delta Labs Effectrons?
I own a couple of those. Huge fan.

Also, the internal modulation, is that a sine, or triangle or?
I like saw or reverse saw myself.

Oh yeah, is this all through hole, or are there some tweezer-ass smt in there too?


It's like Effectron Deltalab, I also have one, and wanted the sound in my modular.
The internal modulation is triangle, but you have external input, so you can put any waveform you want.
Also the loop gate can accept any gate level 5v/8v/12v, so you can freeze drum loops with a sequencer.
All the boards are THT style. I don't combine the two worlds.
I will release the kits in one or two days, I'm finishing the touches on the manuals.
Also I sourced and tested a big lot of SRAM memories, I will have kits with memories included.
strat-1
The module is now available : kit and already built module.

There are 3 types of kit available on my website :

KIT1 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel
KIT2 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel, 8 x 4164 SRAM Chips (tested)
KIT3 : 3 x PCBs + Front Panel, 8 x 4164 SRAM Chips (tested)
8 x Minijack sockets, 2 x 8 pos switches, 1 x Momentary push switch
7 x 10KB 9mm pots, 3 x 50KA 9mm pots, 1 x 100KB 9mm pot, 1 x 500KB 9mm pots, 11 X Cream Knobs 1900h type, 3 x Big Cream Knob 1510 type
3 x 3 way header MALE, 3 x 3 way header FEMALE, 2 x 6 way header MALE, 2 x 6 way header FEMALE, 3 x 14 way header MALE, 3 x 14 way header FEMALE

UNFORTUNATELY THE ROMANIAN POSTAL SERVICE RAISED THE SHIPPING COSTS, THEREFORE I HAVE ONLY ONE SHIPPING OPTION: 15EUR PER PACKAGE WITH WEIGHT BETWEEN 1g TO 1kg. TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION BEFORE ORDERING.

I updated the main post with all the files needed. For the moment the schematics are missing.
I'm still redrawing them from hand drawn schematics. It will take a few days until I will finish them.
secrethero303
I've been eagerly awaiting this one since you announced it. Ordered both of your new modules first thing this morning. Mr. Green
Altitude909
woot! and the price is RIGHT!
rosch
What are you doing? screaming goo yo

Had to take one of course, super cool! hihi
sduck
Excellent! Ordered!
thetwlo
very nice!!!
ordered!!!!
audiohawk
Ordered!
Thank you for your work we're not worthy
rithma
Wow Strat, I am very happy for your success, it looks like you sold out of kit II and kit III since the 'availible' posting, which was 2 hours ago.

You sold out faster than a Metallica concert in 1996.

Do you plan to have more KitII delay in stock soon?


btw, your Two59 is the best thing that ever happened to me.
rosch
rithma wrote:
Wow Strat, I am very happy for your success, it looks like you sold out of kit II and kit III since the 'availible' posting, which was 2 hours ago.

You sold out faster than a Metallica concert in 1996.

Do you plan to have more KitII delay in stock soon?


btw, your Two59 is the best thing that ever happened to me.


wow glad i didn't think twice
strat-1
faster than Metallica !!!!
All the kits are sold out. I just ordered antoher 100 x SRAMS to test.
Tomorrow I will put another batch of pcbs in production.

I thank you all for your support, I worked a lot on this two projects.
rithma
Strat do you offer any kind of Pre-Order for the next round?

My heart aches with FOMO

/E
strat-1
rithma wrote:
Strat do you offer any kind of Pre-Order for the next round?

My heart aches with FOMO

/E


I purchased a big lot of everything.
It's hard to keep in mind who wants what even if I note it.
I'm one person drawing manuals, making kits, making modules, test them, go to postal office and stay hours. Also for every US,Canada,Australia order I have to stay another hours at export customs smile

Dead Banana
latigid on
I thought I could wait until I got back from work! I hope to get onto the next Kit 2 batch.
Paradigm X
blimey in and out in less than a day! was gonna grab that. look forward to run 2.

cheers
maltemark
I'm so much not missing the next batch.
rithma
Quote:
It's hard to keep in mind who wants what even if I note it.


No worries Strat, I have www.feedbackmodules.com set as my home page now, so I'll know when they're back in stock.

I must say theres someting attractive about the whole "concert tickets" vibe of this thing, special to have a fleeting chance to get in on something cool.
stringsthings
Missed out on this run. Waiting for the next batch.
strat-1
If everything works ok, the next batch should be available on 10-11oct.
teebeehex
I see 600mW resistors on the BOM, is there any particular reason I can't substitute with 1/4W?
daynehacks
AHHHH! I can't believe I missed this! Oh well, Hopefully I'll be on the ball for the next batch.
very frustrating
strat-1
teebeehex wrote:
I see 600mW resistors on the BOM, is there any particular reason I can't substitute with 1/4W?


I'm usually using 500-600mw in any circuit I make, but it's not mandatory.
kashmir
strat-1 wrote:
If everything works ok, the next batch should be available on 10-11oct.


Are there going to be some more already assembled units for sale or kits only?
strat-1
kashmir wrote:
strat-1 wrote:
If everything works ok, the next batch should be available on 10-11oct.


Are there going to be some more already assembled units for sale or kits only?


Of course, I already sold assembled units. ....But only a couple of units at a time will be available, they take a lot of time to build.
thetwlo
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Just received mine, sounds, and looks incredible!!!!
Everything I'd hoped for and a lot more!

THANKS!!!!
strat-1
thetwlo wrote:
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Just received mine, sounds and looks incredible!!!!
Everything I'd hoped for and a lot more!

THANKS!!!!


Thank you for the kind words. It means a lot for a new project/module.
tassie tiger
Hiya strat-1

I'm re-loading your web-page every day, just waiting for the moment KIT1 becomes available again!!
Any idea how much longer I need to wait?

Do you have any plans to get a batch of KIT1's to Modular Addict?
As you know they have really good shipping prices, which would encourage buyers who are dissuaded to buy because of the EUR15 charge.
Even if MA sold it for about EUR40 rather than EUR35 (to cover your shipping costs), everyone would be a winner.

J
fuzzbass
tassie tiger wrote:
Hiya strat-1

I'm re-loading your web-page every day, just waiting for the moment KIT1 becomes available again!!
Any idea how much longer I need to wait?

Do you have any plans to get a batch of KIT1's to Modular Addict?
As you know they have really good shipping prices, which would encourage buyers who are dissuaded to buy because of the EUR15 charge.
Even if MA sold it for about EUR40 rather than EUR35 (to cover your shipping costs), everyone would be a winner.

J


I'm not sure your math is sound here. If it is, someone is getting squeezed - either the wholesaler or the retailer.

Strat sells for very reasonable prices, so why quibble about international postal cost? My last order I thought I was buying a kit, and got a completed module - it's that low! Also - he puts a lot of time into the docs. Pay him.
tassie tiger
Hello,

It was most definitely not my intention to disrespect anyone, least of all Strat. As noted, I am itching to get one of these ordered via Strat's website.
I have a deep admiration for individuals/companies that develop and support us in our DIY building endeavours, and I will continue to spend my dollary-doos with them.

In hindsight, I shouldn't have speculated at any mutually acceptable commercial arrangement between maker and retailer: I humbly submit my apologies to all concerned for any offence caused.

J
fuzzbass
No worries I did not see any disrespect. We are all here to drive cost out (even though really DIY is not cheaper - it just more fun to build it). At this level of demand, I don't think distribution will reduce cost.

I'm sorry if my tone was disparaging - never my intent.
strat-1
tassie tiger wrote:
Hiya strat-1

I'm re-loading your web-page every day, just waiting for the moment KIT1 becomes available again!!
Any idea how much longer I need to wait?

J


First, I was not offended by any remarks. I do what I can to keep reasonable prices for DIY and built modules.
I have all the boards and parts for about a week. But I'm also building a lot of modules to restock in the same time diy kits and modules, also to test the new pcbs of errors.
They will be ready in a few days. This are not easy builds so is taking me more than I unticipated.
strat-1
IMPORTANT UPDATE : I updated the manual with jumper placing, missing from the first revision.
You can find the procedure on the calibration page.
Also I updated the BOM list with 2pcs. 8pos switches, only one was typed in the first BOM.

I also uploaded the schematics in the zip file.
Sorry for the big delay, as you will see they are quite complex schematics. It took some time to redraw them from hand schematics.
BugBrand
Good! I've been looking forward to the schematics & will take a look now. May still be some time before I build my kit.
strat-1
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE :
Although I built at least ten modules from the first PCB lot, I missed an important error. I corrected that error by automation without updating the manual.
Please download again the manual and the BOM list.
The switches from feedback eq section (soft/off/hard), need to be SP3T (on-off-on), not SPDT (on-on).
teebeehex
Do you have a recommended part number for that SP3T switch? I've had a quick look (for an on/off/on) on Mouser with no luck.
strat-1
teebeehex wrote:
Do you have a recommended part number for that SP3T switch? I've had a quick look (for an on/off/on) on Mouser with no luck.


1MS3T1B1M1QE

http://ro.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualke y108-1MS3T1B1M1QE-EVX
teebeehex
Thanks, but that's spdt.

Looking a bit further, I see the nkk sp3t switches have 2 rows of 3 pins but the pcb only has 1 row of 3. I did find this Apem switch, listed as sp3t with 3 pins:
http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apem/11139AK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvudeGI7i 40XIi0F7AFEc7jtlvUxM2QyTc%3d
strat-1
teebeehex wrote:
Thanks, but that's spdt.

Looking a bit further, I see the nkk sp3t switches have 2 rows of 3 pins but the pcb only has 1 row of 3. I did find this Apem switch, listed as sp3t with 3 pins:
http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apem/11139AK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvudeGI7i 40XIi0F7AFEc7jtlvUxM2QyTc%3d


You can also search them by on-off-on spdt print
The switch pointed in the previous message is the correct cheapest one.

Apem is 35$ smile)
BugBrand
Ah, so SPDT C/O rather than SP3T (which is something different)?
strat-1
BugBrand wrote:
Ah, so SPDT C/O rather than SP3T (which is something different)?


SPDT - Single pole, double throw on-on
SP3T or SPDT 3pos - On-Off-On

In some places is noted spdt on-off-on, in other places SP3T.
In BOM list you can find equivalents for farnell, mouser and TME with descriptions.
teebeehex
strat-1 wrote:
SPDT - Single pole, double throw on-on
SP3T or SPDT 3pos - On-Off-On

In some places is noted spdt on-off-on, in other places SP3T.
In BOM list you can find equivalents for farnell, mouser and TME with descriptions.


Thank you for the clarification. I think your Mouser BOM already had the correct part, I just hadn't heard it referred to as sp3t before.
ThatFunnyLookinGuy
Dang, I just missed this! Will there be a restock soon? This and the Multidimension are top of my DIY list hyper
strat-1
ThatFunnyLookinGuy wrote:
Dang, I just missed this! Will there be a restock soon? This and the Multidimension are top of my DIY list hyper


Yes, monday or tuesday, I'm just working on the kits now. Also I will have full modules in stock.
strat-1
1BIT Multitap Delay is back in stock, both kits and modules.
If you don't catch a kit or module in this lot, it doesn't mean you will not get one soon, I have more kits and modules than the store stock but I can't process too many
at a time.
Please bare in mind, sometimes it can take a week or two too send the order. With so many different parts in all the kits I can find errors in the last moment.
Also for all the orders outside EU I have to do export customs, which can take days to approve.
Thank you for understanding.
stringsthings
Ordered! cool
Altitude909
So where did these memory chips that come with the kit come from? They are sanded and blacktopped parts, not what they are marked as for sure. I assume they tested ok since mine works but its not really usable past 1 or 2 taps, just turns into distorted hash.

They look identical to some cheapos I bought on a whim from hk bunk ass chips emporium
thetwlo
Altitude909 wrote:
So where did these memory chips that come with the kit come from? They are sanded and blacktopped parts, not what they are marked as for sure. I assume they tested ok since mine works but its not really usable past 1 or 2 taps, just turns into distorted hash.

They look identical to some cheapos I bought on a whim from hk bunk ass chips emporium


I only have the built version and it sounds great even at longer times. no hash!
strat-1
Altitude909 wrote:
So where did these memory chips that come with the kit come from? They are sanded and blacktopped parts, not what they are marked as for sure. I assume they tested ok since mine works but its not really usable past 1 or 2 taps, just turns into distorted hash.

They look identical to some cheapos I bought on a whim from hk bunk ass chips emporium


I will try to cover the problem as best as I can :

First of all you received one of this two types of srams :



Both types were well tested before added to the kits.
For the last kits I preferred to stay on km version, more expensive and looking better than the mn version. I can assure you the chips are genuine.
I test hundreds of srams and put them in 8pcs antistatic tubes. When I build a new module for sale I take the memories from this 8pcs tubes not from a pile of untested ones. I found that every lot tested worked well, so this is a double check of the testing routine.
I built and shipped at least 20 finished modules, and all worked well with memories I sell with the kits.

....However in this 20 modules one memory pcb didn't worked.
It worked on tap4 and it was giving only noise on other taps, strangely.
The board didn't have any errors, also was flawlessly soldered.
I built another memory board and worked perfectly with the same cd chips and memories from the faulty one.
So this points me... that in some circumstances, bad currents and capacitances can occur.
It's hard to give you a solution, other than switch the memories between them and try other logic chips to find the proper combination, because I don't have the module in front of me to give a diagnostic.

If you want I can return you the money for the memory set.

In the future, if other situation like this happens, I will sell only pcb kits and finished modules, without memory kits.

That's why is best to write a review about the building experience, if you finished a functioning kit.....but sadly, even I don't write a post in the threads if I finish a kit from other companies.
Altitude909
It's not a big deal, I found some milispec TI parts cheap locally that looked good.

The counterfeit chip thing is complicated, technically they do work but people dont remark chips for fun so who knows what these parts are. The MN parts I got are definitely remarked, you can see the black top material looking at the mold hole from the side and they are not evenly sanded (I have one that they sanded down past the mold holes), the black top scrapes off easily also. It's pretty obvious when you look at them under a microscope. When buying from the east assume that anything that looks like a great deal is counterfeit.
strat-1
Altitude909 wrote:
It's not a big deal, I found some milispec TI parts cheap locally that looked good.

The counterfeit chip thing is complicated, technically they do work but people dont remark chips for fun so who knows what these parts are. The MN parts I got are definitely remarked, you can see the black top material looking at the mold hole from the side and they are not evenly sanded (I have one that they sanded down past the mold holes), the black top scrapes off easily also. It's pretty obvious when you look at them under a microscope. When buying from the east assume that anything that looks like a great deal is counterfeit.


I understand what you say, but they are without a doubt 64k sram chips, science at test they do their job.
I have my delay mounted in my system using mn srams. I'm using it already for a few months.
strat-1
All the kits are back in stock!
TitoCas
SlayerBadger!
AntonWoldhek
Ordered smile
Altitude909
Heh. So I got my TI parts today and was like: hey, these look familiar:



On the left, the TI parts, on the right the "MN" parts.

Note the clear mold dimples in the TI part compared to the remarked part where you can see the black top material. Why remark parts to a different brand? Who knows. But they do work better, I'll see if I can come up with some object way of comparing it but just by listening to them I can get the delay time way up, almost to the end where the other chips would be noise well before that (different size?), the noise floor is MUCH improved as well. I can hear the 8 taps pretty clearly now where before after 4 it became pretty distorted.

On an unrelated note, if there an easy way to dial back the feedback pot range?it seems at that anything after 1/2 becomes quite a mess
strat-1
Altitude909 wrote:
Heh. So I got my TI parts today and was like: hey, these look familiar:

On the left, the TI parts, on the right the "MN" parts.

Note the clear mold dimples in the TI part compared to the remarked part where you can see the black top material. Why remark parts to a different brand? Who knows. But they do work better, I'll see if I can come up with some object way of comparing it but just by listening to them I can get the delay time way up, almost to the end where the other chips would be noise well before that (different size?), the noise floor is MUCH improved as well. I can hear the 8 taps pretty clearly now where before after 4 it became pretty distorted.

On an unrelated note, if there an easy way to dial back the feedback pot range?it seems at that anything after 1/2 becomes quite a mess


Of course they look the same, the majority of these memories were made in singapore at that time, probably by the same factory, and they were just rebranding it. smile
The feedback range was set in a way to function well for just one tap.
When using two taps you will have to keep the feedback lower. This is absolutely normal, because you have two feedbacks in loop.
If you modify the range to be better for two taps, it will not work well for one tap.

If you want to modify the range, change resistors R17, R34 (4K7). Put a higher value...... test a 10K resistor for example.

By the way, did you cleaned the board for flux or solder residues with isopropyl alcohol ? This type of memories are quite sensitive, any residue on the solder side, will alter their functioning.
Check Mate
I finished building my Module yesterday and it worked right away and as it's supposed to.
The RAM chips seem to be fine and I got a clean delay signal on all the Tap settings.
With the suggested values for the trimmers my delay gets noisy with the time knob about 3'o clock but I'm satisfied with the results so far.

On a sidenote, I've got some other legit TMS and MN chips on the way for testing purposes.
Altitude909
strat-1 wrote:
..

By the way, did you cleaned the board for flux or solder residues with isopropyl alcohol ? This type of memories are quite sensitive, any residue on the solder side, will alter their functioning.


My boards are always clean. Warm water in an ultrasonic cleaner.

I'll give the new range a try, thanks!
tassie tiger
Mr. or Mrs. Postperson delivered my parcel today - Delay Kit2 + SMARTT Kit1

It's peanut butter jelly time! Rasta-nana It's peanut butter jelly time!
AntonWoldhek
In anticipation of delivery of my kit, anybody want to put some more demo's online?
Really curious about feedback/dub/freeze style stuff which frat's demo's dont show too much off.

screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
pathein
hi strat-1, need your help in some trouble shooting issues.

i have finished building the module and was playing with it for a good half an hour without any issues.

when i was sending a cv into the loop gate input, it was working fine, but the moment the loop sw was turned on, the module went dead.

few observations,

the module is still passing signal from input to output, minus the delay effect and no response from all controls onboard.

cv/gate high signal in still lights up the momentary loop switch led.
But when toogle loop switch is being toggled, theres no light from the momentary loop sw led nor when pressing it.

from the schematic, i have tried visually checking the components around the loop switches, but seem no sign of burnt parts etc, thou theres burnt smell coming round the toggle loop switch and the memory ics

Appreciate if theres any info on things that i can check on.
strat-1
pathein wrote:
hi strat-1, need your help in some trouble shooting issues.

i have finished building the module and was playing with it for a good half an hour without any issues.

when i was sending a cv into the loop gate input, it was working fine, but the moment the loop sw was turned on, the module went dead.

few observations,

the module is still passing signal from input to output, minus the delay effect and no response from all controls onboard.

cv/gate high signal in still lights up the momentary loop switch led.
But when toogle loop switch is being toggled, theres no light from the momentary loop sw led nor when pressing it.

from the schematic, i have tried visually checking the components around the loop switches, but seem no sign of burnt parts etc, thou theres burnt smell coming round the toggle loop switch and the memory ics

Appreciate if theres any info on things that i can check on.


I should have installed a diode on the gate input.
I think you somehow fed some voltage to ground due to voltage difference from the 12V of the delay and different gate voltage from external.
You can try two things :
First change the 2n3904 transistor. This is first in the path of gate signal.
After that change the cd4051. This ic function like a switch, when is on, it returns the signal from the sram line ouput back to the input.
pathein
Thanks strat, i will change out the parts and report back.

For the diode, if to hard wire it in, will it be at either one of these 2 points?

[/img]
pathein
A quick update and a good one.

So i went back checking through the board and actually saw something that was burnt off(which i missed it earlier), but it wasn't the components.

The burnt part is the path from vr1 leading to c7. Tested continuity between and there's no connection there. So i tried adding jumper between the 2 points directly, powered it up and feeding in some signal, holy cow, there it is, the glorious delay is back!

here's 2 pictures of the above mentioned,
sduck
of course that raises the question: What happened there? Why did it burn up like that?
strat-1
VERY IMPORTANT :

pathein wrote:
Thanks strat, i will change out the parts and report back.

For the diode, if to hard wire it in, will it be at either one of these 2 points?

[/img]



I overlooked this situation. Didn't think there is a reason to feed a gate signal in the input when the loop switch is on.
But this situation can happen a lot, even by mistake.
When you feed a gate in the input, like a sequencer, you will have +voltage on high state and ground voltage on low state.
It will result in a short between ground and +voltage. That's why the route burned, the positive voltage found the shortest route to the ground.
I did tests and the best solution is to install diodes in both places you highlighted.
The best way to do that is described in the next pictures.
Cut the two routes indicated by red lines. If you cut them near the minijack signal pin, like in the picture, the minijack will cover the cuts.
Install the two diodes like in the second picture. Cover the diode with longer legs with some thermotube or cable cover to avoid short with the switch terminals.



I strongly advice for everybody to make this modification to protect the delay and the external trigger module.
I try my best to do boards that don't need modifications like this, I hate boards with cuts and wires to work.
pathein
Thansk strat, that's some good info you have mentioned. Will do the mod for the protection now.

This delay is awesome btw, so much fun even if its disintegrating noise repeats till it oscillate back and forth between different tap setting we're not worthy
BugBrand
[/img]

While we've got that image up, the connections of the Ext Lev Pot9 look distinctly wrong... I haven't had a chance to open up my kit yet to check whether the PCB is actually connected like that.
strat-1
BugBrand wrote:
[/img]

While we've got that image up, the connections of the Ext Lev Pot9 look distinctly wrong... I haven't had a chance to open up my kit yet to check whether the PCB is actually connected like that.


No it is not smile)
Mistake when I redrawn the schematics from handdrawn ones.
I test my projects for months before lunch them in production.
Altitude909
and here's my CNC panel

windspirit
Lookin slick! Just ordered a kit for this I am very excited. The idea of looping back audio held in RAM is very interesting to me grin.
strat-1
windspirit wrote:
Lookin slick! Just ordered a kit for this I am very excited. The idea of looping back audio held in RAM is very interesting to me grin.


It's cool you can alter the speed of the loop after you catch it resulting in artefacts and noise.
AntonWoldhek
[ignore] was working on bom ordering ofa few projects and mixed up the bom from another project with the one from this one. Apologies
Styrofoam
strat-1 wrote:
windspirit wrote:
Lookin slick! Just ordered a kit for this I am very excited. The idea of looping back audio held in RAM is very interesting to me grin.


It's cool you can alter the speed of the loop after you catch it resulting in artefacts and noise.


I was just experimenting with this on my finished build, feeding a Turing Machine into the external modulation input. Amazing artefacts indeed, almost like random-but-repetitive glitchy percussion loops.

It's a pretty hefty build, but once done it works like a charm.

Thanks!
Paradigm X
mine came very quickly, thanks!

looks like its going to be quite hard adapting to 5u/rack format tho (for me at least), very dense pcb. was hoping to use mta connectors for the pots but theres some very close pads etc. will have to give it some thought.

sure itll be worth it tho!

cheers
ben
AntonWoldhek
Need some advice: the left hole of the 4k7 R17 (on the front pcb) it does not seem to be connected to anthing. Is that the case?

I filled the hole and cannot seem to sucker it empty anymore, so instead i was thinking of only soldering the one side of R17 properly. since it doesnt seem to be leading anywhere anyways.

Make sense?
loderbast
AntonWoldhek wrote:
Need some advice: the left hole of the 4k7 R17 (on the front pcb) it does not seem to be connected to anthing. Is that the case?


Probably R17 is goint to ground.
Because it goes to the gound plane, this would explain why you don't see any traces going somewhere from one of the solder pads.
Also this would explain, why it is hard to get the solder out of the hole. (Because the ground plane has more thermal capacity than a trace) turn your soldering iron to a higher temperature and you should be able to suck the solder out.

a resistor going nowhere would be strange.
you can look up R17 in the schematic to be sure.
strat-1
AntonWoldhek wrote:
Need some advice: the left hole of the 4k7 R17 (on the front pcb) it does not seem to be connected to anthing. Is that the case?

Make sense?


One end of R17 goes to the ground, the other end to the pot.
It is very important to be soldered to the ground, otherwise the feedback circuit will not work.
AntonWoldhek
Thanks smile glad I asked. I tried 360 degrees. I'm afraid to ruin. The pad at higher temperatures. Maybe make le a direct connection somewhere?
tassie tiger
Hi all,

Finished building mine this week and it seems to function just fine. Now turning to calibration and wondering if anyone has subjective views of trimmer settings.
I pre-set the longest time trimmer to 6.9Kohms and shortest time trimmer to 8.8kohms and haven't touched them so far.
I also pre-set the noise trimmer to 1kohms.

...and just one more thing before I get busy with trimming - does a clockwise adjustment (looking face on to the brass screw) increase or decrease the time/noise?

Cheers,
J
strat-1
tassie tiger wrote:
Hi all,

Finished building mine this week and it seems to function just fine. Now turning to calibration and wondering if anyone has subjective views of trimmer settings.
I pre-set the longest time trimmer to 6.9Kohms and shortest time trimmer to 8.8kohms and haven't touched them so far.
I also pre-set the noise trimmer to 1kohms.

...and just one more thing before I get busy with trimming - does a clockwise adjustment (looking face on to the brass screw) increase or decrease the time/noise?

Cheers,
J


Put the time knob on a fast repetition. When you will adjust one time trimmer you will hear if the time will raise or will lower.
Adjust the trimmers in such a way that the delay will not stall/halt at the lower time (fast delay) and will not make extreme pops and noise on higher time (long repetitions).
Bare in mind the time trimmers are interdependent, changing one, will affect the other.
I found the best adjustment it is the one indicated, but try to change it with small adjustments in one direction to hear the difference.
I usually don't bother with noise trimmer, it works well in any position. But if you want to test different settings, put the time knob on long time delays and adjust to high feedback, when it will oscillate you will start to hear a noise hiss, adjust the trimmer to change the noise intensity.
tassie tiger
Many thanks for your input Strat.
I'll take my time and make small adjustments as you say.
Awesome module by the way!!
rosch
Hmm how about taking the momentary switch into the mod?

(ok i see my mistake, it is in the mod already)




edit: and btw will there be another run in the future? (I had boards and SRAMs and some hardware)
AND: of course, Altitude, awesome panel work! As always!
AntonWoldhek
Another question:

I made a mistake and did not use the WIMAS where they were intended:

(circled in red) on my board they are the same as the regular yellow caps. (D'oh) I am guessing its cirtical to swap them to the inteded wima's?
strat-1
AntonWoldhek wrote:
Another question:

I made a mistake and did not use the WIMAS where they were intended:

(circled in red) on my board they are the same as the regular yellow caps. (D'oh) I am guessing its cirtical to swap them to the inteded wima's?


No, if you used the right value just leave them like that, it's not critical.
If you desolder them you can destroy the board.
rosch
Nah these must be the highest quality boards I've ever soldered. I removed 3/4 of the IC sockets to make it flatter for electrolytic caps in some places (only left the sram sockets in) and I have not lifted one single pad. Wish all pcbs were like these.
AntonWoldhek
thanks strat-1. i'll leave as is for now.

I do agree with rosch though that these are fine boards indeed.
PWM
I third the PCB quality! They are really nice to work with!
AntonWoldhek
I just noticed i got 3M3 (3.3M Ohm resistors instead of the specified 3M. Can is that close enough or should i get the proper 3M?
strat-1
AntonWoldhek wrote:
I just noticed i got 3M3 (3.3M Ohm resistors instead of the specified 3M. Can is that close enough or should i get the proper 3M?


Take the 3M ones, they are in ad/da section, it's important to be exact value.
raph36
a lot of resistors in the BOM are 0.6W / 1/2W, is this relevant or any 1/4W resistor will do ? can't see why 1/2W would be needed
tassie tiger
raph36 wrote:
a lot of resistors in the BOM are 0.6W / 1/2W, is this relevant or any 1/4W resistor will do ? can't see why 1/2W would be needed


See earlier post

strat-1 wrote:
teebeehex wrote:
I see 600mW resistors on the BOM, is there any particular reason I can't substitute with 1/4W?


I'm usually using 500-600mw in any circuit I make, but it's not mandatory.
AntonWoldhek
Tonight i hope to finally finish up this module grin (Got the 3M resistors in).

I have a question regarding the mod. If i understand it correctly, i will need to first solder 2 4148 diods and then solder that to 2 points.
So to say in other words, the 2 4148 diods are connected directly to each other and both other ends of the diods are connected to Point 1 and Point 2. But there is NOT any other connection. Correct?
(I reealize i will need to put some shrinkwrap to protect the diods from connection to the switch but i wanted to show what it looks like without the shirnkwrap to be sure im not msising a step.



I will have to put the memory modules in. I bought these anti static gloves specially for doing that. Should that be enough protection? I am imagining i will still have to bend the leges of the chip to get them to go into the socket, any special things i need to do to protect the chip when doing that? I normally press them on the table or use a plier.
strat-1
AntonWoldhek wrote:
Tonight i hope to finally finish up this module grin (Got the 3M resistors in).







I think the modification is very well explained in the pictures.
The plastic cover on the diode is there, for the diode leg to not touch the switch terminals.
Do not forget to cut the traces on front of the pcb, otherwise the diode modification will be useless.


AntonWoldhek
thanks strat, I agree the example is great but im just a bit nervous about it and want to be 100% sure. So thats why i showed what i think the mod looks like wihtout the shrinkwrap in my picutre. Could you please confirm that what i show in my picture is indeed what it should be? (
tassie tiger
Anton,

Your picture doesn't look correct to me.

Anode of D1 does need to go to middle terminal of J8 (Loop gate jack) as you've shown.
Cathode of D1 needs to go to the top connection of RL (1K ohm resistor) so that a connection is maintained to Pin 1 of connector 6b.

Anode of D2 does need to go to bottom terminal of SW6 (Momentary loop switch) as you've shown.
Cathode of D2, like cathode of D1, also needs to go to the top connection of RL (1K ohm resistor).

You must break the traces either side of the bottom terminal of SW6 (Momentary loop switch).

J
AntonWoldhek
Thanks Tassie!

That explains a few things. I didn't notice the extra connection from one of the diodes but not the other one. d'oh! (The other one is also not easy to see in the photo of the mod).
AntonWoldhek
Thanks to Andrei I have a working module now. Maybe good to know for other folks interested in feedback modules, the amount of support Andrei gives builders is very high.

Did my first play session with this module yesterday and had a serious amount of fun.
applause

strat-1
UPDATE :
The pcbs are updated to rev 1.3. I included the two diodes required for gate path on the front panel board.
I also described the modifications required for rev1.0 and 1.1 boards, at the end of the new manual.

thetwlo
best delay!!
[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-91119069/1bit[/s]
tron23
thetwlo wrote:
best delay!!
[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-91119069/1bit[/s]


Sounds like it, reminds me a lot of the Bel BD-80! Guinness ftw!
maltemark
Does anyone know where I can find the manual? On the website it points to the muffwiggler thread, and maybe I'm half-blind or something, for in the thread I can only find references to the manual. I could imagine it still being written on since this is a one-man gig, but I'm not sure if this is the case ...?
mush
maltemark wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find the manual? On the website it points to the muffwiggler thread, and maybe I'm half-blind or something, for in the thread I can only find references to the manual. I could imagine it still being written on since this is a one-man gig, but I'm not sure if this is the case ...?


User manual 1.0 pdf is attached in the first post of this thread...
strat-1
UPDATE :
Feedback range improvement.
After building many delay units, I discovered every lot of LM13700 have a different maximum gain. I knew that, but I considered it's not important in this project.
Because of this, with some LM13700s, you will already have some feedback with feedback pot at minimum.
If you have this problem, just install a wire in place of R17, R34 highlighted in the picture. These resistors were put exactly for this purpose. (or you can trimm them from 0 to 4k7 until you are satisfied with the minimum feedback setting)
If you already built the project, you can short them on the back of the board, without removing the front panel.

alsec
Just what I was looking for.
guestt
Finally arrived today - just want to concur the this looks amazing, really looking forward to getting stuck in to the build!

Oh and the build manual is glorious - once of the nicest I have ever seen - just beautiful! Really excellent work!!

Thank you strat-1 thumbs up
raph36
I'm currently building 3 of those 1 bit delays and wondered before i purchase some memory chips if the ram speed has any influence on the sound ,

it seems to me that these Tesla MHB4164 should work fine

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesla-MHB4164-64Kx1-DRAM-lot-of-8-pcs/28226 5903583?hash=item41b85be1df:g:Ak8AAOSwiONYNWN5

however different 4164 seem to have different response times , going from 100ns to 250ns and those tesla chips are on the slow side. does it matter in this application ?
strat-1
raph36 wrote:
I'm currently building 3 of those 1 bit delays and wondered before i purchase some memory chips if the ram speed has any influence on the sound ,

it seems to me that these Tesla MHB4164 should work fine

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesla-MHB4164-64Kx1-DRAM-lot-of-8-pcs/28226 5903583?hash=item41b85be1df:g:Ak8AAOSwiONYNWN5

however different 4164 seem to have different response times , going from 100ns to 250ns and those tesla chips are on the slow side. does it matter in this application ?


It will work fine, as long as it will have the same pinout.
guestt
I have a question about the static discharge, just how careful do I need to be? Are these any more sensitive than any other chip?

I ask because I knowI don't generate static electricity to any noticeable degree, I mean I have handled thousands, of chips and never had any problem.
strat-1
Baddcr wrote:
I have a question about the static discharge, just how careful do I need to be? Are these any more sensitive than any other chip?

I ask because I knowI don't generate static electricity to any noticeable degree, I mean I have handled thousands, of chips and never had any problem.


Try to touch a home radiator before handling them, something metallic grounded to earth.
guestt
Okay, thanks smile

I don't have radiators, but I do have a metal post in the ground outside my little home that holds a little lamp, I will reach out and touch that before I touch the chips!

edit: just looked up grounding rods and I don't think my metal post goes, anywhere near, deep enough d'oh!

Maybe I will just buy one of those grounding wrist band things - probably easier in the long run that taking any risks with particularly sensitive components.
Check Mate
Hello Strat,

I just discoverd something strange and I don't know if it is supposed to be like that or not.

If I put a signal into the input and just monitor the output of TAP2 and turn up the FEEDBACK 2 knob, there is no feedback at all. If I trun up the FEEDBACK 1 knob there is a feedback loop audible at TAP 2 output. Twisting the FEEDBACk 2 knob still doesn't do anything.
I already changed all the TL072s but with no success.
Do you have any idea where to look to get FEEDBACK 2 working?

Thank you very much!
strat-1
Check Mate wrote:
Hello Strat,

I just discoverd something strange and I don't know if it is supposed to be like that or not.

If I put a signal into the input and just monitor the output of TAP2 and turn up the FEEDBACK 2 knob, there is no feedback at all. If I trun up the FEEDBACK 1 knob there is a feedback loop audible at TAP 2 output. Twisting the FEEDBACk 2 knob still doesn't do anything.
I already changed all the TL072s but with no success.
Do you have any idea where to look to get FEEDBACK 2 working?

Thank you very much!


I can't tell you, without checking the signal path with a scope. If you have a scope, try to check the signal on LM13700.
The feedback from channel 1 present on channel 2 is normal, because both feedback mix in the same place.
Check Mate
Dear Strat,

The signal from the input is present on the LM13700 as well as on the 311.
Interestingly the signal on pin 5 of the LM13700 is louder than on Pin 12.

I hear the incoming signal at TAP2 out just that there is no feedback with the Tap2 pot.
I already checked all resistors and caps twice and switched all the TLs without success.

P.S.: TAP2 works when switching positions but there is just no feedback loop building when turning up the TAP2-feedback pot.
ookrsia
Would it be a (reasonable) possibility to add a mod to the module so that at least one of the feedback paths would have a send&return somehow?

Thanks
strat-1
ookrsia wrote:
Would it be a (reasonable) possibility to add a mod to the module so that at least one of the feedback paths would have a send&return somehow?

Thanks


It will be hard to implement a send-return path, that's why I didn't include one.
The feedback send is before the output high-freq cut filter, so clock frequency is present over the signal.
Also the feedback level is between 0-2vpp.
You can try to desolder R57 at one end, and insert before it a send-return path, but the results will not be good.
Jop
Almost finished my build and not sure about the orientation of the push switch. I do not see green paint but red on my switch. Should this side facing the dot on the board?

Thx
$XxxxX$
Found this beautiful module and noticed that KIT1s and 2s are sold out.

Any chance there is coming more in some point?
strat-1
Jop wrote:
Almost finished my build and not sure about the orientation of the push switch. I do not see green paint but red on my switch. Should this side facing the dot on the board?

Thx


Yes, the dot matters. It means it's a red led, I don't always find green switches in stock.
strat-1
$XxxxX$ wrote:
Found this beautiful module and noticed that KIT1s and 2s are sold out.

Any chance there is coming more in some point?


Yes, the kits are back in stock.
$XxxxX$
strat-1 wrote:
$XxxxX$ wrote:
Found this beautiful module and noticed that KIT1s and 2s are sold out.

Any chance there is coming more in some point?


Yes, the kits are back in stock.


Perfect, thank you very much! SlayerBadger!
Jop
strat-1 wrote:
Jop wrote:
Almost finished my build and not sure about the orientation of the push switch. I do not see green paint but red on my switch. Should this side facing the dot on the board?

Thx


Yes, the dot matters. It means it's a red led, I don't always find green switches in stock.


I see, thank u thumbs up
Puzzler
Finished mine.

When everything is at minimum(CCW), modulation off, only TAP1 Lev/TAP2 Lev are maximum (fully CW), i dont have the injected wave at the mix out at all, I only have the wave of the 2 oscillators(LM13700). hmmm.....
Jop
Just completed my build but have some troubleshooting to do… Hopefully somebody can help me what to check first.

I took time for this build, checking every component before soldering, and washing the boards with alcohol isopropanol.

Some remarks:
• The blue tubes you see in the pictures are just electrolytes with some heath shrink on them. I need to push them down in order to fit them between the boards, the heat shrink is just so they make no connection with other parts.
• Use some different named ic’s:
HEF4046BP instead of CD4046
MC14051BCP instead of CD4051
HCF4015BE instead of CD4015
HEF4013BP instead of CD4013
HEF4016BP instead of CD4016
Don’t think this will matter much? Same logic ic’s or?

When I plug power, no smoke luckily. But I do not get any delay. Just some weird noises, drones, high pitched noise regardless of the tap settings. As far as I can tell what is working:
• Dry input signal is going to the outputs tap1, tap2 & mix.
• 7805 ic is outputting +5V
• Loop light turns on when pushed, but the sound completely disappears (if dry pot is fully CCW)
• Internal Lfo is working, does have an effect on the sound.
• When doing the memory test, I get good waveforms on the output. This is expected , as I ordered kit 3, and the tube where the ic’s where packed mentioned good.

Not sure now what is the best way to continue trouble shooting, any tips are very much appreciated thumbs up

Please see below links with some high res pictures.

https://ibb.co/djG3Jd
https://ibb.co/nrGyjJ
https://ibb.co/hwujPJ
https://ibb.co/k563Jd
https://ibb.co/gGAxdd
https://ibb.co/cB2cdd

Thanks.
Puzzler
Does TIME and "TAP LEV" have influence on the pitch of the nboise you are hearing too? I might have the same problem, but its not noise its clearly the LM13700 OSC which are problebly the "clock" for the TAP, but why do they "bleed" into the audio?
Puzzler
OK i put some hours into the calibration and found out, that the trimmers for longest and shortest time together with the time pot have a massive effect on the sound coming out.

@Jop I suggest, you trim a bit and listen to the sound coming out.
strat-1
Puzzler
OK, i trimmed shortest and klongest trimmers, until i can hear an injection. yes, the injection of the input sound wasnt audible, only in full dry mode.
then i turned off and on the module and its still set like before.
now after several hours, i turn on the module and again no injection and only wave audible from the 2 TAP oscillators.

cant find any suspicious thing in my build so far.

Any idea why its behaing like that?
strat-1
Puzzler wrote:
OK, i trimmed shortest and klongest trimmers, until i can hear an injection. yes, the injection of the input sound wasnt audible, only in full dry mode.
then i turned off and on the module and its still set like before.
now after several hours, i turn on the module and again no injection and only wave audible from the 2 TAP oscillators.

cant find any suspicious thing in my build so far.

Any idea why its behaing like that?


Because is very hard to realize what's your problem without testing the circuit on a scope, it crossed my mind I can make a troubleshooting pdf. I will try to explain what is the type and amplitude of signal in various points, the clock readings and memory path digital signal.
strat-1
Jop wrote:
Just completed my build but have some troubleshooting to do… Hopefully somebody can help me what to check first.

I took time for this build, checking every component before soldering, and washing the boards with alcohol isopropanol.

Some remarks:
• The blue tubes you see in the pictures are just electrolytes with some heath shrink on them. I need to push them down in order to fit them between the boards, the heat shrink is just so they make no connection with other parts.
• Use some different named ic’s:
HEF4046BP instead of CD4046
MC14051BCP instead of CD4051
HCF4015BE instead of CD4015
HEF4013BP instead of CD4013
HEF4016BP instead of CD4016
Don’t think this will matter much? Same logic ic’s or?

When I plug power, no smoke luckily. But I do not get any delay. Just some weird noises, drones, high pitched noise regardless of the tap settings. As far as I can tell what is working:
• Dry input signal is going to the outputs tap1, tap2 & mix.
• 7805 ic is outputting +5V
• Loop light turns on when pushed, but the sound completely disappears (if dry pot is fully CCW)
• Internal Lfo is working, does have an effect on the sound.
• When doing the memory test, I get good waveforms on the output. This is expected , as I ordered kit 3, and the tube where the ic’s where packed mentioned good.

Not sure now what is the best way to continue trouble shooting, any tips are very much appreciated thumbs up

Please see below links with some high res pictures.

https://ibb.co/djG3Jd
https://ibb.co/nrGyjJ
https://ibb.co/hwujPJ
https://ibb.co/k563Jd
https://ibb.co/gGAxdd
https://ibb.co/cB2cdd

Thanks.


Because is very hard to realize what's your problem without testing the circuit on a scope, it crossed my mind I can make a troubleshooting pdf. I will try to explain what is the type and amplitude of signal in various points, the clock readings and memory path digital signal.
Jop
Puzzler wrote:
Does TIME and "TAP LEV" have influence on the pitch of the nboise you are hearing too? I might have the same problem, but its not noise its clearly the LM13700 OSC which are problebly the "clock" for the TAP, but why do they "bleed" into the audio?


Thx for your reply, just checked this and TIME does have an influence on the pitch, TAP LEV not. I will try a different branded LM13700 and report back.

Puzzler wrote:
OK i put some hours into the calibration and found out, that the trimmers for longest and shortest time together with the time pot have a massive effect on the sound coming out.

@Jop I suggest, you trim a bit and listen to the sound coming out.


I started with the trimmers as advised in the build manual, after that tried both directions and combinations for the two trimmers without much success so far.

strat-1 wrote:

Because is very hard to realize what's your problem without testing the circuit on a scope, it crossed my mind I can make a troubleshooting pdf. I will try to explain what is the type and amplitude of signal in various points, the clock readings and memory path digital signal.


That would be really great, the documentation of your projects is one of the best I have seen, so detailed and makes the building process so enjoyable thumbs up
strat-1
Jop wrote:


I started with the trimmers as advised in the build manual, after that tried both directions and combinations for the two trimmers without much success so far.


I'v built tens of units starting from trimm values adjusted like in the manuals and adjusting a bit the longest delay time. (rare beats). So I think something else is wrong, it's better to check the clock line if you have clock from minimum o maximum 200khz-1mhz. Look at the schematics and test this o every pin that should have clock.
I will write a troubleshooting manual, but it will take some time, now I'm writing manuals for five other modules I will release soon.
Jop
strat-1 wrote:


I'v built tens of units starting from trimm values adjusted like in the manuals and adjusting a bit the longest delay time. (rare beats). So I think something else is wrong, it's better to check the clock line if you have clock from minimum o maximum 200khz-1mhz. Look at the schematics and test this o every pin that should have clock.
I will write a troubleshooting manual, but it will take some time, now I'm writing manuals for five other modules I will release soon.


Thanks for your help, I will check soon when temperatures are lower here in Holland, not fun to sit in a studio without airco now. Lets Guinness ftw! Mr. Green
sduck
I don't really have a pony in this race yet, as my pcb set is still waiting to be built, but will add this: you have an awful lot of chip substitutions going on there. My experience has been that sometimes those will work, but sometimes they don't. Normally, if I need to make a substitution, I'll do it for just one chip, see if it works. But not 5 of them. Especially if they're readily available chips, like these are.
Jop
sduck wrote:
I don't really have a pony in this race yet, as my pcb set is still waiting to be built, but will add this: you have an awful lot of chip substitutions going on there. My experience has been that sometimes those will work, but sometimes they don't. Normally, if I need to make a substitution, I'll do it for just one chip, see if it works. But not 5 of them. Especially if they're readily available chips, like these are.


Thank you, good point. Just placed an order for the exact parts mentioned in the bom, hope this cures my issues.
Jop
Just installed the new IC's, and I now have a nice delay w00t What a great design, so much fun to use.

I have learned my lesson here.... Thanks all for your help and time!

Now checking all functions, and about one thing I'm not sure if it is working correctly. Is it intended you can add the feedback signal even if that tab level is fully off/closed. So for example:

Tab 1 switch: set to 1 / shortest delay
Tab 2 switch: set to 8 / longest delay
Tab 1 level: 50%
Tab 2 level: off, fully cow

When I increase the Feedback1 I hear as expected the the feedback of Tab1, a nice flanging sound.

When I increase the Feedback2 I hear the longer feedback signal from Tab2.

When I combine the two feedbacks you get a nice mix, but you need to be careful to not overload the feedback and get oscillation (can this be tamed somewhere in the circuit via a mod?)
strat-1
Jop wrote:

When I combine the two feedbacks you get a nice mix, but you need to be careful to not overload the feedback and get oscillation (can this be tamed somewhere in the circuit via a mod?)


Both feedback signals (paths) return and mix on the input buffer.
Feedback send is before TAP1,2 pots, so any feedback level you modify will affect the input signal.
Because feedback level are summing, you should lower the feedback levels if you want to use both in the same time. With a single tap, you will have to turn the feedback pot more to have the same feedback level.
Jop
strat-1 wrote:

Both feedback signals (paths) return and mix on the input buffer.
Feedback send is before TAP1,2 pots, so any feedback level you modify will affect the input signal.
Because feedback level are summing, you should lower the feedback levels if you want to use both in the same time. With a single tap, you will have to turn the feedback pot more to have the same feedback level.


Thank you, glad to know everything is working good then spinning
Now ready to start with the MultiDimensions!
lepsy
Hi everyone, I finished building this great delay, but when I turn it on, nothing happens, no delay I have some direct sound when I turn the dry knob, but nothing else. The memory chips come from the kit. and the rest come from Mouser, I used the precise references of the B.O.M. I checked all the pcb in all directions and I see no bridge. would you have an idea because I despair ...
sduck
Not enough there for anyone to help. I suggest posting some detailed pics of the pcbs, maybe one of us who has built it can spot a problem (still haven't started mine).
deuS2eed1rou
Intriguing design. If it weren't too deep for my rack, I'd have
bought one. I can't get it out of my head though… I'm not far
away from trying to squeeze delay logic into one of OLIMEX'
$20-ice40-FPGA-with-fast-SRAM open-source-hardware boards and
wire up sigma-delta frontends and a couple of encoders to
be able to arbitrarily place taps.

PS: Why does everyone in this thread call DRAM SRAM?
sduck
Ok, time to start. I'm wondering if anyone has a mouser cart for this?

edit: I threw one together anyway. It's expensive. You can probably reduce the price considerably with judicious editing. I rounded a lot of the quantities up. And threw everything in the BOM in there, even stuff I already had. And you might not want my knob choices.

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=b28c 9c1dcc
sduck
This may be covered in this thread already, but quick question - when stuffing the resistors, do I go by the component values printed on the PCB? Those seem to match the colored resistor pictures. The component names (R34, R58, etc) don't seem to correspond with the values.

FWIW: I have version 1.0 PCBs, and the Building manual ver 1.3.

Edit: I think i figured it out; there are 2 versions of the PCBs, I have the first one. The current docs don't work with the old version. Fortunately I have the old docs here also. I don't think there's any big changes, just some component designation changes, and maybe 2 fewer diodes.
NiteEagle
Andrei,

Is the 1 Bit sensitive to losing +12V? My supply tripped out on the +12V leaving just the -12V on. Would that blow any chips, as it's not fully working now. Just occasional popping from the Tap outputs.
dubtoms
Can 4016s be replaced by 40166s in this particular case ? I have some laying around...
strat-1
NiteEagle wrote:
Andrei,

Is the 1 Bit sensitive to losing +12V? My supply tripped out on the +12V leaving just the -12V on. Would that blow any chips, as it's not fully working now. Just occasional popping from the Tap outputs.


If that is happening, something, a short or a part, is driving the positive voltage to ground.
Look for the protecting diodes orientation, shorts etc.
strat-1
sduck wrote:
This may be covered in this thread already, but quick question - when stuffing the resistors, do I go by the component values printed on the PCB? Those seem to match the colored resistor pictures. The component names (R34, R58, etc) don't seem to correspond with the values.

FWIW: I have version 1.0 PCBs, and the Building manual ver 1.3.

Edit: I think i figured it out; there are 2 versions of the PCBs, I have the first one. The current docs don't work with the old version. Fortunately I have the old docs here also. I don't think there's any big changes, just some component designation changes, and maybe 2 fewer diodes.


Respect the manual v1.3. Always the parts in the manual are correct.
You should replace R17 and R34 with a link. Also you have 2 more diodes.
There is an errata for the diode placement.
sduck
Ok, finished. Works like a charm!



FWIW, I got the rare chips from this ebay seller - https://www.ebay.com/itm/15PCS-MN4164P-15A-Encapsulation-DIP-NMOS-65-5 36-X-1-BIT-DYNAMIC-RAM/372145523179 - although I did the testing procedure in the build manual, all 8 of the first ones I tried from this batch worked perfectly.
synthpriest
Gorgeous looking, and thanks for the tip.
strat-1
sduck wrote:
Ok, finished. Works like a charm!


Guinness ftw! Always happy when another 1BIT-Delay is finished.
sduck
I got asked about the knobs - got them from mouser, the smaller ones are 506-PKG50B1/4, the larger ones are 506-PKA50B1/4. The smaller ones are a bit large for the application; I might switch them out with some narrower ones.
paulstone
YES great delay i love it !
strat-1
Really nice new demo by speakerdamage :

[s]https://soundcloud.com/spkrdmg/1bit-multitap-delay-demo[/s]
strat-1
Thank you Future Music Magazine and DivKid for this really well explained video :

tobb
Maybe you shall do 4U version
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