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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

DivKid Mutes
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author DivKid Mutes
silkynight
Came across this. I dreamed of something like this for years.

https://divkidvideo.com/mutes/

Brilliant.
Niamac
This thing looks great I just watched video and its gone straight to the top of my wishlist
lisa
Simple idea but super useful. SlayerBadger!

timc3
Looks good for live performance.
Zerstorte Zelle
Neat idea!
starthief
Clever design!
BenA718
Cool idea!
a100user
Agreed, simple idea and appears to be well executed.

Clickless switching and I love the momentary option on the mute too.

Nice work Ben and Befaco.
mgscheue
Looks good!
desolationjones
Nice one, Ben! You should make a video about your journey getting a module into production.

It is interesting to see vactrols still get used in new designs from EU designers when they're not RoHS compliant...
iheartmodular
very nice applause
xthrasherx
My only complaint is I wish the jacks were on the top side of the panel instead of the bottom, but I suppose I can mount it upside down in my case. Otherwise this does a whole lot for performances and also addresses the one main weaknesses of the WMD performance mixer (limited aux sends).
ben_hex
Just came on to post about this. Thank you to everyone with the nice comments and sharing the videos etc. Much appreciated.

RE RoHS and Vactrols I believe they are compliant now as they don't have Cadmium (is that was it was called?) in them anymore. There's a few places to get them that can be used worldwide I believe. If you're interested and can find out about them in more detail.
rico loverde
Looks great Ben. I love a good, functional utility module. You can tell when it’s designed by necessity! applause
wiperactive
Ordered a kit from Thonk just a moment ago as soon as Ben's promo video rolled to its end.

Always liked inserting manual switches into systems such as my old Korg MS series well before getting into modular. With this the vactrols and momentary function on the same switch makes all the difference. Simple and super-useful.
BananaPlug
Quote:
but I suppose I can mount it upside down

Exactly. I do that a lot and this module’s the perfect candidate. For modules with knobs that point, I turn the knobs around too.
Congratulations DivKid! nanners
starthief
Will be ordering one as soon as one of the US shops lists it.

Did I interpret that right, it's also a buffered mult? grin
jnduffie
Ben -- are there plans to export this to the US? Looks fantastic!
ben_hex
cheers again everyone.

starthief - it's not a buffered multiple in the sense of 1 in to 4 super accurate copies of the signal. However ins and outs are buffered properly to avoid potential issues with modules not reacting further up or down stream in the patch. I know of issues that have arose with splitting signals and driving various things before.
ben_hex
Hi jnduffie yeah stores that have them (or had some sold out) or have them coming are (either just got web pages to make or have them in transit) ...

Australia – Tin Shed Modular

Europe – Analogue Zone (Hungary) // Escape From Noise (Sweden) // Modular Square (France) // Raw Voltage (Austria) // Schneidersladen (Germany)

United Kingdom – Cymru Beats // Matttech Modular // Rubadub // Signal Sounds // Thonk (DIY Kits + PCB/Panel)

USA – Control (Brooklyn, New Work) // Midwest Modular (Minneapolis) // Modular Addict (Wisconsin) // Patchwerks (Seattle)

DIY Kits + PCB/panels – Modular Addict // Thonk
jamos
Jesus I was just postulating something like this last night!

I hope the ins are normalled to 5V, I'll live if not.
jmax313
thanks!! am interested in picking up one It's peanut butter jelly time!
starthief
ben_hex wrote:
it's not a buffered multiple in the sense of 1 in to 4 super accurate copies of the signal. However ins and outs are buffered properly to avoid potential issues with modules not reacting further up or down stream in the patch. I know of issues that have arose with splitting signals and driving various things before.


Ah, OK smile
desolationjones
ben_hex wrote:
RE RoHS and Vactrols I believe they are compliant now as they don't have Cadmium (is that was it was called?) in them anymore. There's a few places to get them that can be used worldwide I believe. If you're interested and can find out about them in more detail.


Sorry for derailing, but it's surprisingly tough to find recent info on RoHS vactrols. Last I can find is some circa 2013 squabbling over conflicting test reports on cadmium levels in a particular brand. If there's an industry-agreed direction on safe vactrol choices, I'd love to hear about it!
ben_hex
jamos they're not ... I thought of that too late into the production of the boards. I'm living with one CV source into the first input though.

derail away! desolationjones I thought Cool Audio, Erica and others had "new" vactrols made that were all totally fine.
Brooks
It's cool to see the Befaco Hexmix mutes section put into its own module.
ben_hex
Brooks yeah exactly. Was entertaining a few things with this prior to the Hexmix then saw that and realised that's what the module wanting to be. With the added buffering for normalisations.
jamos
Duplicate post
talfred
It’s a Mute-able Instrument
shoottofill
(pre)ordered.
I was looking at getting a switched multiple but i'm betting this is going to be the better option for me.
stamppotwortel
Nice little module. Already curious about your next one.
ben_hex
talfred I see what you did there wink


me too stamppotwortel, funnily just got off the phone about that.
cackland
Nice module Ben. Simplicity at its best thumbs up
strawberry
First of many I hope cool
ersatzplanet
BananaPlug wrote:
Quote:
but I suppose I can mount it upside down

Exactly. I do that a lot and this module’s the perfect candidate. For modules with knobs that point, I turn the knobs around too.
Congratulations DivKid! nanners


Hey Ben - next rev just make the panel graphics mirrored. You can use symbols for the numbers if needed (like I do on my slide pot modules). I see this more useful in a skiff with the jacks on top away from the hands. Of course it can be flipped anyway, but it would be neat if the graphics were not upside down when that was done. It is also an excuse to have your logo on there twice!
Vckingpin
Congrats on the release. Love the performance capabilities of this, very effective demo vid as well, great work!
subbasshead
re mounting the module upside down, shoutout to FOH Choices module which was designed with this in mind. No additional cost, just great forethought
ben_hex
Good call ersatzplanet small logos could work. A DivKid head on both sides could work. I'll have a think. Considering a second run but of course going to see how it goes first before sinknig anything into it.

With this I did feel it was simple enough that mounting upside down wouldn't bother anyone. It's certainly simple enough for any performing or that's serious about the performance aspect / placement to just flip it upside anyway. But of course upside graphics would bug me (and others) so all noted. thumbs up

Choices subbasshead is great for that. As are the Synthwerks modules.
diode_destroyer
Are you going to release a schematic? That's the coolest thing about Befaco modules...the available schematics!
Seaweed Sound
Cool module, congrats!
stickman
Congrats looks v cool!
MindMachine
Was leaning toward the Noise Engineering Muta Jovis (has 'cascaded' input function) but the momentary switches on the BenHex/Befaco are very usable.

These are like the Serge C/M switches - very useful.

I currently use a Plan B Model 9 Switched Mixer/Attenuator, two each Studio Electronics Boomstar Bi-Directional Routers and an EMW Switch Interface 1 in Euro.

I love some performance style switching since I record 'live' with many voices and functions at once. I have my white patch cables exclusively for signals running through switches. Makes it easy to remember what is what.
latigid on
Cool idea; congrats!

Just curious: did you consider switches that operate up/down rather than left/right? Seems like it might be more ergonomic. Of course, there could be mechanical reasons like panel space etc. that make more sense the way you've done it.
ben_hex
diode_destroyer that could be possible. As I have little time for DIY it hadn't really crossed my mind, but I wanted to make sure DIY was available for friends that are into it and the DIY scene is a key part of the whole modular thing so nice to have that option for people.
ben_hex
latigid on yeah up and down is nice but the switches are too close for that unfortunately.
iheartmodular
ben_hex wrote:
diode_destroyer that could be possible. As I have little time for DIY it hadn't really crossed my mind, but I wanted to make sure DIY was available for friends that are into it and the DIY scene is a key part of the whole modular thing so nice to have that option for people.


coolest of all would be to make the whole thing open source thumbs up
cackland
diode_destroyer wrote:
Are you going to release a schematic? That's the coolest thing about Befaco modules...the available schematics!
yes schematic would be great
wiperactive
latigid on wrote:
Cool idea; congrats!

Just curious: did you consider switches that operate up/down rather than left/right? Seems like it might be more ergonomic. Of course, there could be mechanical reasons like panel space etc. that make more sense the way you've done it.


Not a major issue, but I think I prefer the existing left/right throw action as it's slightly more natural for the hand and fingers. It's also why I prefer, say, a Roland bender lever over a wheel for rapid control changes.

On reflection though, as I write, I can see that perhaps up/down might come more instinctively on this module as the positioning of in-out-jacks may coax the hand into that kind of alignment... maybe, as some have suggested, having the turn-around option of the jacks above could help with this for a more unobstructed left/right switching access if its typically placed into a lower shallow angled/horizontal panel. This is minor stuff though, it's a great little module to have on board and I look forward to other ideas from Ben.

I'll also congratulate Thonk on getting a full kit to my door within 24 hours of my first knowledge of this module. Saw the promo vid late yesterday morning, ordered the kit at lunchtime and it arrived through the letter box this mid-morning!
Jalopy
Hail Sir Divward Kiddery.

To clarify, best place for DIY stateside is Modular Addict?
Heliophile
I had actually hoped that the default (middle) position would let the signal through and that you could (temporarily) mute the signal using the switch. Is this a possible modification when building the kit?
JakeE
Damn I was putting off getting a kit till next payday then I changed my mind now the Thonk DIY kits have sold out very frustrating Will these be restocked anytime soon if at all?
ben_hex
Jalopy Yeah stock should be sent out to them soon and they'll have full kits and the PCB (SMT done) and panel sets.

JakeE it's sold out assembled in some places too, but more stock is going to EU and US shops. But we are looking at a second run, once that's decided it will be roughly 1 month away from setting it in motion.

Heliophile You'd have to cut traces and mess around a bit more than a simple mod. Here's the response from Befaco

Quote:
"you could wire the switch to g oto GND isntead to 12, cut the trace and route it to the input of the vsctrol
but not sure if this would drive this to higher current draws
and remove the clickless effect...."
cackland
Yes, schematic would be nice smile
Halfgeleider
Ordered 2 kits at thonk but they only had 6 vactrols in stock, and apparently i cant find those vactrols anywhere.... i ordered components to make 4 kits but without vactrols i will be limited to 1 mutes seriously, i just don't get it
ben_hex
for those that have asked I'll get the schematic sorted and uploaded for people soon.
Heliophile
Thanks very much for passing my question on to Befaco, Ben, much appreciated!
ben_hex
Heliophile no problem.
Halfgeleider
No knurlies or glow worm cables with the DIY kit? Would been great though.
ben_hex
Halfgeleider yes to both, should have knurlies in there and should have 1 cable (ran out to do 2 per DIY kit).
cackland
ben_hex wrote:
for those that have asked I'll get the schematic sorted and uploaded for people soon.


Sounds good, thank you.
Paranormal Patroler
Super excited to see a DivKid module out there! Congratulations Ben! I'll think up of something practical to suggest for a collab module in the future - something for performances hyper

Currently being patient as a batch is being shipped to Escape from Noise. You managed to ruin my plans of a finished live case. I added this in there and now I have to mod the case to have the power on the back (instead of having it as a module), change some switches to 1hp etc. You rascal!

Such a great concept! applause
locust_locust
Excellent idea Ben.
I've bought it and plan on using it in my guitar processing system.
ben_hex
Paranormal Patroler sorry to ruin your plans! But happy to do so with a nice module that many seem to be enjoying. I imagine Escape From Noise should have the order very soon.

Cool have fun. locust_locust
Jalopy
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
You managed to ruin my plans of a finished live case.... You rascal!


QFT
screaming goo yo
Halfgeleider
Damn, dont have the luck on my side, i have a dead board i think.... diy kit via thonk pcb and panel, but after wiring it up no leds flashing or output signals on all four channels seriously, i just don't get it have a second one but not assembled yet. Very strange since i solderd several modules, smd , trough hole.
Just another rookie
Halfgeleider wrote:
Ordered 2 kits at thonk but they only had 6 vactrols in stock, and apparently i cant find those vactrols anywhere.... i ordered components to make 4 kits but without vactrols i will be limited to 1 mutes seriously, i just don't get it


Thonk re-stocked on vactrol.
Order placed.
Markthom
Halfgeleider wrote:
Damn, dont have the luck on my side, i have a dead board i think.... diy kit via thonk pcb and panel, but after wiring it up no leds flashing or output signals on all four channels seriously, i just don't get it have a second one but not assembled yet. Very strange since i solderd several modules, smd , trough hole.


Interesting, also bought the PCB / Panel and have the same problem - if I stick a 4.7k resistor over the LDR section of the vactrol, the Audio passes through no problem and the LEDs illuminate, but with the Vactrol / Switch portion of the circuit incorporated there isnt enough signal passing through - its a simple build in comparision to the stuff I usually build (e.g. just built two Performer sequencers), but has me stumped currently smile

PS my reading of the schematic looks like it needs the audio passing through before they illuminate, so no sound = no LEDs
JakoGreyshire
Markthom wrote:
Halfgeleider wrote:
Damn, dont have the luck on my side, i have a dead board i think.... diy kit via thonk pcb and panel, but after wiring it up no leds flashing or output signals on all four channels seriously, i just don't get it have a second one but not assembled yet. Very strange since i solderd several modules, smd , trough hole.


Interesting, also bought the PCB / Panel and have the same problem - if I stick a 4.7k resistor over the LDR section of the vactrol, the Audio passes through no problem and the LEDs illuminate, but with the Vactrol / Switch portion of the circuit incorporated there isnt enough signal passing through - its a simple build in comparision to the stuff I usually build (e.g. just built two Performer sequencers), but has me stumped currently smile

PS my reading of the schematic looks like it needs the audio passing through before they illuminate, so no sound = no LEDs


Could be a case of bad vactrols... I've seen this in other builds and thats why I always buy more vactrols than I need... Testing the vactrols is a good thing to do before soldering them in...
Markthom
JakoGreyshire wrote:


Could be a case of bad vactrols... I've seen this in other builds and thats why I always buy more vactrols than I need... Testing the vactrols is a good thing to do before soldering them in...


Yeah, the vacs were from Thonk, but I'm leaning that way, typical it has to be a relatively expensive component! smile
JakoGreyshire
Markthom wrote:
JakoGreyshire wrote:


Could be a case of bad vactrols... I've seen this in other builds and thats why I always buy more vactrols than I need... Testing the vactrols is a good thing to do before soldering them in...


Yeah, the vacs were from Thonk, but I'm leaning that way, typical it has to be a relatively expensive component! smile


I think that they are expensive because they are not easily made and because they are not easy to make there are more faulty duds after the process of making them... At that point I don't think it's worth the manufacturer testing them and they just send them out to retailers... I'm just hypothesizing here, I really don't know the inner details of vactrol production process..

This is the thread where vactrols were an issue and there is some info here on testing them:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124990&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=525

Hope this helps you all... Of course one could just replace one vactrol at a time and try to eliminate the faulty one...

Obviously you all have checked other part placements and values as well....

Good Luck! thumbs up thumbs up
Tranquillitatis
Heliophile wrote:
I had actually hoped that the default (middle) position would let the signal through and that you could (temporarily) mute the signal using the switch. Is this a possible modification when building the kit?


Hey ben_hex, nice work on the module. My only concern is related to Heliophile's question here.

It's hard to tell from the videos, but is there a chance that when switching from ON (right) to OFF (center), that the pressure required to activate the switch can be misjudged and you accidentally switch it to MOMENTARY (left) for a fraction of a second? This would obviously be unacceptable in a live performance situation.

I'm thinking of using the module to switch between 2x stereo signals, so switching all four switches at once with one finger each. If perfectly accurate switching is difficult to nail every time in this way, it's a no-go for me.

Going back to Heliophile's query, I have yet another suggestion: if the switch positions were changed to be OFF at right, ON at center and MOMENTARY at left, this would solve this issue. Is this something you'll consider changing in manufacturing, or will I need to DIY and change the switch pinouts during building?

Cheers.
sherwood
Markthom wrote:
JakoGreyshire wrote:


Could be a case of bad vactrols... I've seen this in other builds and thats why I always buy more vactrols than I need... Testing the vactrols is a good thing to do before soldering them in...


Yeah, the vacs were from Thonk, but I'm leaning that way, typical it has to be a relatively expensive component! smile


You can (literally) roll your own vactrols with a photoresistor, an LED, and electrical tape (or plastidip if you're fancy.) $1 in parts! plus shipping eek!

Nice module!
ben_hex
Hello all, any having issues with modules / faulty boards etc please let me know and I can try to get things sorted. I know lots have built kits totally fine. LEDs won't light up without a signal coming in, audio will leave them on, LFOs / clocks etc will pulse in time with the signal.

Tranquillitatis trying to switch four switches at once seems like a "technique" that's not going to be very accurate. Trying to place your finger parallel to the panel along the switches. In that case I would use four VCAs and an offset voltage into the Mutes module and use one single Mutes channel to feed that voltage (through a multiple/stackcables) to four VCA channels so you can more accurate and freely use one switch to turn off four things.

Regarding changing the switches, that's not something I want to change. I really like how this performs. From off to flicking the mutes left works really well. Having to click through the on stage to momentary takes away the chance it will momentary and you wouldn't be able "flick / ping" the momentary as you're going through a latching stage in the switch. You wouldn't be able to momentary much or at least not accurately at all. As there's no route from off to momentary on.

In terms of accuracy of going from on to off, I've had no issues. My use has been both more careful and considered where it's obviously totally fine and more head bobbing heavy handy use in some techno patches I was performing with for a recording.

I can't see any issues with going from on to off and then pushing to far to momentary. After trying the module I think you'd realise how much pressure needs applying and work with it as part of your instrument. Of course if you just slam at it heavily then yeah you'll push all the way from one side to the other as you would with anything.

You're of course totally welcome to DIY it however you see fit. Would be nice to see people adapt them to suit themselves. If you do so please try both ways and let us know how you get on.
Jalopy
fap fap fap...
https://modularaddict.com/divkid-mutes-kit
Jalopy
So... having received a shipping confirmation today and having reviewed the concerns regarding vactrols - How can one test a vactrol before committing it to the build? I read the page 22 in the PS3100 thread linked in the above post and did not see it explicitly discussed.

Thanks!
Markthom
Jalopy wrote:
So... having received a shipping confirmation today and having reviewed the concerns regarding vactrols - How can one test a vactrol before committing it to the build? I read the page 22 in the PS3100 thread linked in the above post and did not see it explicitly discussed.

Thanks!


Jalopy, If you bought the full kit from MA, you will likely not need to worry, both myself and the other guy with an issue bought the pcb/panel and had to source the other parts - in my case this was because the full kit was sold out. I'd guess you will have no issues smile

For the record it's also important to point out that both Ben and Befaco have been ace in terms of communication and resolution, after reaching out Ben put me in contact with Manu at Befaco, after a couple of emails and some checks we came to the conclusion the issue is with the vactrols not with the PCB and being the lovely folks they are, they have sent out 4 replacement Vactrols which I'm just waiting on arriving.

Given the the vactrols I had the issue with came from Thonk, not as part of the kit, thats an excellent level of support in my book, above and beyond what they needed to do, so kudos to Befaco and Ben.
JakoGreyshire
Jalopy wrote:
So... having received a shipping confirmation today and having reviewed the concerns regarding vactrols - How can one test a vactrol before committing it to the build? I read the page 22 in the PS3100 thread linked in the above post and did not see it explicitly discussed.

Thanks!



Good question really....I haven't thought that far through since I haven't had any issues myself but lets figure it out shall we?....

It's probably real easy to test them first rather than have to desolder them and fiddle with all that troubleshooting.... I normally test all components while I'm building modules before soldering them into place..

After reading the Ps3100 thread I posted again and thinking about what makes a vactrol, I'm guessing that a way to test a vactrol would be to supply a voltage to the LED and then test the resistance of the LDR. I'm not sure how much you know about electronics so, I'll break it down for everyone, eh?
I'm no expert but I know a little...
LEDs have polarity and probably require a maximum of 3 volts.. So, One could find the polarity of the LED side of the vactrol by doing a continuity test with a multimeter... Vactrols usually have a marking on them to indicate polarity, and if you know how to identify that then you won't need to do a continuity test. However a continuity test will also identify a working or faulty LED... When you know which leg of the LED is positive and which one is negative, then you could probably touch those legs to the positive and negative sides of a 3V coin cell battery...

The LDR (Light Dependent Resistor) side of the vactrol is not polarity dependent. So then you could use a multimeter to test the resistance while the LED has a charge from the coin cell battery. If they all test out to be around the same resistance then they are probably good... If one of them tests out to have a lot more resistance then the others then maybe the resistance is too much to let enough light through to the rest of the circuit...


Here is the quote from the other thread, and I've put in bold some of the important clues:

davebr wrote:

Then you can just tack another one in and see how it differs. I didn't write down the actual resistance but a "good" one at whatever voltage/current I ran them at was a couple of hundred ohms, say 190ohms. The "bad" one was a couple of K ohms, like maybe 2300ohms. It was a big difference. I've matched vactrols before for some of the Buchla builds and I never saw that much of a difference. It was always something like 2X, not 10X.

Dave


So,I'm also guessing that the current supplied to the LED is not critical that it is 3V.. Just DON'T go over 3V... So if you don't have a 3V coin cell battery lying around you could use a single AA or AAA battery as they are 1.5V... The important thing here is that you use the same battery to test the Vactrols(same Volts)...

I haven't looked at the Vactrol datasheets and I don't know what voltage they need to function... I'm just guessing about the voltage and erring on the safe side.. So, looking at the datasheets is always advised when testing or understanding components...

As I said, I'm not expert, but I hope this helps... Any Pedantic rants and or corrections about my testing method are welcome as I just made it up as I was going along.....

Receiving bad vactrols is not as common as one might think. Now that a few wigglers "might" have received these bad vactrols, it could be safe to assume that the quota of bad vactrols have been fulfilled and no one else will have these problems..

seriously, i just don't get it seriously, i just don't get it
Jalopy
Good news about the hopeful component integrity from the kit. I hate sourcing parts for builds for that very reason. JakoGreyshire thanks for the timely and thoughtful response. Will be sure to check back once I get my grimy paws onnit!
Zerstorte Zelle
My diy mutes is on the way. Psyched.
Halfgeleider
Ok reading along here, i asked some advice last week with the guys from thonk, because thats where my kits came from. They told me to reflow my solderpoint but that didnt work... Now i read these newer posts so i guess i have the same issue with the vactrols? vactrols that dont work, strange, especially when you see the pricing of these components
I ordered 10 pieces at befaco because they where out of stock on Thonk. Any one know of troubles with the vactrols from befaco?

@ Ben, what can be done with those faulty vactrols from thonk?

Thanks in advance to everyone involved, i need 4 of these mutes in my case, a must have it is! hihi
Just another rookie
This is the module that broke my streak of builds that worked first time!

And I thought it would be a simple affair
hmmm.....

Anyway......I love this thing, the circuit appears to work.
Powers up.....switches function, as expected.

However, I have the same problem as mentioned above.
The leds do not illuminate in any case.
Placement follows the silkscreen.
Negative to the edge, positive innermost.

All important parts as per BOM.
Switches from tme. Leds are kingbright 2mm posts.

Have checked and double checked;
led orientation
Inter board connects (8pin) for continuity etc.

Really baffled. My diy knowledge is not that great but I’ve a few far more complex builds under my belt.
Even the zlob min-eq is more difficult to build than this!

Otherwise it’s a great unit......

Please help if you can.
Thanks in advance.
Just another rookie
Well! Having read the above!

Looks like one way or another I will get some help!

Hooray!

Cos I want at least one more of these!
ben_hex
Hello all,

just to be clear LEDs just show signal activity audio/cv/gate etc at the input. That might be clear, I don't want to tell you something you all know. But I make silly mistakes with stuff like that sometimes so just wanting to be clear.

Speak to Thonk where you bought the kit about the vactrols and support. That way we can official follow through emails and support.

Of course discuss anything here, but just don't use it as an official support request for issues/faulty units/vactrols etc. Emailing the store you bought it from is always first port of call. They'll then pass it through to us (us being me and/or Befaco, Befaco will handle everything).

If there's a bad batch of vactrols I apologise, all of that is out of my control but everything will get sorted, I've full faith in everyone involved in the project to look after everyone. thumbs up
Paranormal Patroler
ben_hex wrote:
If there's a bad batch of vactrols I apologise, all of that is out of my control but everything will get sorted, I've full faith in everyone involved in the project to look after everyone. thumbs up


Hug

Couldn't be happier with mine!
ben_hex
Hug indeed. Big love for the modular scene. Amazing to go from where I started to now. Couldn't happen without all the cool people along the way.
Paranormal Patroler
Proud of you mate. Looking forward to what else your line of modules has in store for us! w00t
Plugler
Any chance to get one of the Full DIY Kits in Europe before the upcoming (if no wonder happens) hard brexit?

Thonk.co.uk is sold out since mid february. Since then I'm on the waiting list, but did'nt got any message yet.

After a hard brexit, the full DIY Kit from Thonk will probably cost more then the assembled version from a German / French webshop...
very frustrating
Zerstorte Zelle
Mutes kit appeared yesterday. After knocking it together (very easy and straightforward build) I’m pretty excited about the potential. Vactrols all functioning here. Almost like a manual triggered decay envelope using momentary side. Pretty great idea! Thanks again.
rexxxx
Question: On the PCB/Panel DIY.... What effect would using homemade vactorals (LED/LDR-shrink tube wrap) have on the response? I use them on quite a few DIY modules and get excellent results? Workable or not recommended? Cheers on the project. Rexxxx
Halfgeleider
Got me some vactrols from befaco, but no marks, lines or symbols on these... how can i tell which is + or - hmmm..... ? Multimeter maybe?
Halfgeleider
[

There seems to be a slanted side on the top left of the vactrol when placed sideways, could that be the LED side?[/img]
Halfgeleider
Think i got it, there is one longer leg, being the + i suppose
Befacosynth
After receiving a few reports of failed builds, we found that we made a HUGE MISTAKE in our BOM, Stating the wrong Vactrol reference.

The right reference is VTL5C1 not VTL5C3.......

For anyone out there that got the wrong vactrols and a non working module, please drop me a mail at manu@befaco.org and I will be sending a set of vactrols ASAP.

Sorry for the mess..... we're not worthy
Just another rookie
Yeah!
I just got my email!

Absolute relief.
Glad it wasn’t me! I thought my luck had run out!

I’ll say it first, you guys handled it like true professionals.

Thanks for all you’ve done!
applause

....and don’t worry Manu, it happens to the best of us!
What’s the old saying....a man who never made a mistake, never made a thing!
I certainly will not be holding a grudge!

Thanks to both Manu and Steve.

All the best jamie.
It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners
Markthom
Just logged back in to report that I recieved some replacement Vactrols from Befaco at the start of the week, fitted them and it works like a charm....

As Jamie says above, mistakes are easily made and great communication and support has been provided to alleviate any issues.

The best bit of all is that the module itself is fab, really nice response when bringing things in and out of the mix, and the send option using 2 channels normalled is great.

Bravo to all involved...
Markthom
Halfgeleider wrote:
Think i got it, there is one longer leg, being the + i suppose


Yes, if you consult the Build doc, it tells you the short leg is -ve.
Halfgeleider
Thanks Manu for clearing things up and the quick response. Desoldering the vactrols and waiting for the new ones....
GNSDG
Are these available anywhere right now? Was going to order one a couple weeks ago from (I think) modular addict, and now they are sold out. : (
Just another rookie
Hurray!

My replacements arrived today!
To be fair it took me a while to sort my reply so....
Good job you lot, I’d say!
In the mean time, after everything was sorted,
I bought another pcb and panel set.





All I need now is a bigger rack.
ben_hex
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Proud of you mate. Looking forward to what else your line of modules has in store for us! w00t


Cheers mate! Certainly lots of idea smile

Plugler wrote:
Any chance to get one of the Full DIY Kits in Europe before the upcoming (if no wonder happens) hard brexit?

Thonk.co.uk is sold out since mid february. Since then I'm on the waiting list, but did'nt got any message yet.

After a hard brexit, the full DIY Kit from Thonk will probably cost more then the assembled version from a German / French webshop...
very frustrating


Not going to happen before Brexit, these are currently under manufacturing for a second batch. However it's all sold and sorted through Befaco in Barcelona, Spain. So within the EU you should have no differences. Leaf Audio are interested I think so DIY kits can come from them. I can't speak for Thonk but knowing they're great people I'm sure they'll do as much as they can to have a minimal affect for customers anywhere in the world.

A huge thanks to Befaco for sorting Vactrol issues and everyone for reporting back everything is ok. Really appreciate it thumbs up
GNSDG
ben_hex wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Proud of you mate. Looking forward to what else your line of modules has in store for us! w00t


Cheers mate! Certainly lots of idea smile

Plugler wrote:
Any chance to get one of the Full DIY Kits in Europe before the upcoming (if no wonder happens) hard brexit?

Thonk.co.uk is sold out since mid february. Since then I'm on the waiting list, but did'nt got any message yet.

After a hard brexit, the full DIY Kit from Thonk will probably cost more then the assembled version from a German / French webshop...
very frustrating


Not going to happen before Brexit, these are currently under manufacturing for a second batch. However it's all sold and sorted through Befaco in Barcelona, Spain. So within the EU you should have no differences. Leaf Audio are interested I think so DIY kits can come from them. I can't speak for Thonk but knowing they're great people I'm sure they'll do as much as they can to have a minimal affect for customers anywhere in the world.

A huge thanks to Befaco for sorting Vactrol issues and everyone for reporting back everything is ok. Really appreciate it thumbs up


Glad to hear more are coming! Will there be US stock again?
ben_hex
GNSDG wrote:


Glad to hear more are coming! Will there be US stock again?


Yeah assembled and more DIY to the US I believe. If you want me to approach a specific shop about it let me know who and I will do.
Breezewax
ben_hex wrote:
GNSDG wrote:


Glad to hear more are coming! Will there be US stock again?


Yeah assembled and more DIY to the US I believe. If you want me to approach a specific shop about it let me know who and I will do.


I want to buy some full kits from Modular Addict Mr. Green
ben_hex
Breezewax wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
GNSDG wrote:


Glad to hear more are coming! Will there be US stock again?


Yeah assembled and more DIY to the US I believe. If you want me to approach a specific shop about it let me know who and I will do.


I want to buy some full kits from Modular Addict Mr. Green


They had some and they sold out. More will be going as soon as the next batch is ready.
Plugler
ben_hex wrote:
Breezewax wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
GNSDG wrote:


Glad to hear more are coming! Will there be US stock again?


Yeah assembled and more DIY to the US I believe. If you want me to approach a specific shop about it let me know who and I will do.


I want to buy some full kits from Modular Addict Mr. Green


They had some and they sold out. More will be going as soon as the next batch is ready.


Hopefully the next batch is a little bit larger. love

But... as long as we are already waiting on this next batch, it must be so large that it have to be shipped in a sea container. It's peanut butter jelly time!
ben_hex
Plugler I don't mind saying the first run was 300, we're doing a slightly larger run this time.
kay_k
ben_hex wrote:
Plugler I don't mind saying the first run was 300, we're doing a slightly larger run this time.


*yaw dropping noise*

marketing works LOL Mr. Green
ben_hex
kay_k wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
Plugler I don't mind saying the first run was 300, we're doing a slightly larger run this time.


*yaw dropping noise*

marketing works LOL Mr. Green


I didn't mean that as any sort of brag, or making statement. I hope it didn't seem that way. Just saying what the run was. While I'm thinking out loud (this may be of interest, may not be) ...

I know marketing works, I had a plan from the start I think but some people were unsure for various reasons. What really worked was that I wasn't the person handling circuit design or ordering panels, or assembly, packaging etc. It meant I could step back and just oversee things and work on the release. That's a luxury I had with this release because I'm the strange middle man between the company building them and me releasing them. Befaco were great to work with as always so it was a great experience throughout. I don't think I'm really going anyway with this but I'm happy to discuss things.
kay_k
ben_hex wrote:
kay_k wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
Plugler I don't mind saying the first run was 300, we're doing a slightly larger run this time.


*yaw dropping noise*

marketing works LOL Mr. Green


I didn't mean that as any sort of brag, or making statement. I hope it didn't seem that way. Just saying what the run was. While I'm thinking out loud (this may be of interest, may not be) ...

I know marketing works, I had a plan from the start I think but some people were unsure for various reasons. What really worked was that I wasn't the person handling circuit design or ordering panels, or assembly, packaging etc. It meant I could step back and just oversee things and work on the release. That's a luxury I had with this release because I'm the strange middle man between the company building them and me releasing them. Befaco were great to work with as always so it was a great experience throughout. I don't think I'm really going anyway with this but I'm happy to discuss things.


I know you weren't bragging .. I don't take you as the bragging kind of person anyway.
It was a compliment too wink
ronski
I've used the these VTL5C1 's from Musikding but I'm having an issue with them. It's a similar issue as I had when I used the VTL5C3's when things were still wrong in the BOM. LED's are quite dim and no signal is coming through. I was under the impression that the musikding vactrols are the same as the Thonk ones. They're XVIVE's as well but maybe I'm missing something essential here?
ben_hex
ronski wrote:
I've used the these VTL5C1 's from Musikding but I'm having an issue with them. It's a similar issue as I had when I used the VTL5C3's when things were still wrong in the BOM. LED's are quite dim and no signal is coming through. I was under the impression that the musikding vactrols are the same as the Thonk ones. They're XVIVE's as well but maybe I'm missing something essential here?


Please check you're looking at V7 of the build guide here - http://bit.ly/mutesfiles - there was an error regarding vactrols. If you're having issues though feel free to let me know (I'll pass things onto Befaco who will handle it).
ronski
ben_hex wrote:


Please check you're looking at V7 of the build guide here - http://bit.ly/mutesfiles - there was an error regarding vactrols. If you're having issues though feel free to let me know (I'll pass things onto Befaco who will handle it).


Thanks Ben,

I know of the issue with the vactrols, the initial BOM said VTL5C1 vactrols which didn't work a got replaced by Befaco which was amazing of them.
Now for my second build of Mutes I got the "right" ones but having the same (or similar) issue as with the VTL5C1's.

This time I'm using VTL5C3 from musikding as stated above but wondering if they really do work. The ones I got send by Befaco for my previous build worked perfectly, I should have bought them at their but wasn't aware they were selling them... My question is are the Xvive VTL5C3's of musikding the same as the Thonk ones? Thanks a lot for your help !
Brooks
Hi there. I built two of these a couple months ago and have been using them strictly to run audio through. For this, no problems. However, just today I've tested with CV, running a sequence through it, and I'm experiences a volt drop. I've tested with both Marbles and Arpitecht into Mutes, then out to Plaits 1v/oct. In both cases it seems to transposed downward. I don't have a signal analyzer so it's hard for me to say how much.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.
kay_k
Brooks wrote:
Hi there. I built two of these a couple months ago and have been using them strictly to run audio through. For this, no problems. However, just today I've tested with CV, running a sequence through it, and I'm experiences a volt drop. I've tested with both Marbles and Arpitecht into Mutes, then out to Plaits 1v/oct. In both cases it seems to transposed downward. I don't have a signal analyzer so it's hard for me to say how much.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.


the vactrols in the BOM can actually achieve a very low On resistance (5ohm @ 10mA) i.e. with the input impedance of 100k plaits has it's below a cent error.
Which can only mean that your module drives not enough current thru the LED part of the Vactrol. I'd recommend asking Befaco for help.

(BTW I don't have the module so I am guessing a good bit)
Brooks
Thanks kay_k. I've reached out to Befaco. Kinda hoping someone else can test theirs and let me know if they're experiencing the same. Since my original post I've tested with other oscillators and all sequences run through mutes sound different then without it in the chain.
shoottofill
Brooks wrote:
Hi there. I built two of these a couple months ago and have been using them strictly to run audio through. For this, no problems. However, just today I've tested with CV, running a sequence through it, and I'm experiences a volt drop. I've tested with both Marbles and Arpitecht into Mutes, then out to Plaits 1v/oct. In both cases it seems to transposed downward. I don't have a signal analyzer so it's hard for me to say how much.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.


I haven't run CV through mine yet, but i remember Ben saying somewhere that while they are buffered, not to expect buffered mult like performance with CV.
shoottofill
Also, would a pannable mixer with vactrols get rid of the click you hear with those kind of mixers?
Brooks
Coming full circle this seems like a forehead slap moment. Just wasn't sure...anyway, here is the response from Befaco. Makes perfect sense.

"The mutes is Vactrol based, that offers a clickless switching, but also they have variations on the voltage. In audio is hard to perceive but if you are using tuned CV you need to know the variation, and they aren't accurate. So is not the best use.

I was try to measure the voltage lose of the vactrols but each have is one behaviour."
Plugler
The DIY Full Kits are available again at Thonk!

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/divkid-mutes-full-diy-kit1/

I've waited on this since mid february... - but last weekend Doepfer announced their new Slim Line modules, some of them with switches:

http://www.doepfer.de/a138i.htm (A-138i Interrupting Mixer - Slim Line 6HP)
http://www.doepfer.de/a1822.htm (A-182-2 Quad Switches - Slim Line 4HP)

First I'll try this both new modules, especially the A-138i Interupting Mixer, which is technically nearly the same as I've built some months ago (modified A-138b, combined with simple 4 switches in a 4HP blank panel - see "My Eurorack Case #1", lower right) - but with half the width of my solution.
If I have problems with clicks at switching/muting, then I will try DivKids Mutes...
kay_k
Difference lies in the vactrols tho
kay_k
shoottofill wrote:
Also, would a pannable mixer with vactrols get rid of the click you hear with those kind of mixers?


Try our mixer wink
Not pan-able but two busses work for stereo too
haertes
Just finished this project, ch 2-4 are working just fine but I have two issues..
1.: Switch one doesnt move. I didn't want to put too much pressure on it but I can't flip it to (ON) or ON after soldering it. Could it be possible that some solder flowed through the holes and now blocks the switch ? How to repair this ?
2. LED 4 is shining constantly.

P.S.: Awesome and super usefull module, but would love to use all 4 channels

Thanks in advance
shoottofill
kay_k wrote:
shoottofill wrote:
Also, would a pannable mixer with vactrols get rid of the click you hear with those kind of mixers?


Try our mixer wink
Not pan-able but two busses work for stereo too


i check it out!

Hope someone creates a clickless pananble one soon.
haertes
Edit: accidentally doubleposted
Just another rookie
I’ve used this module so much I have killed a switch!

In a good way.

applause

Totally made my synth.
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