good oscilloscope for vector rescanning?

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mortal3
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Post by mortal3 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:14 pm

Thanks so much for the reply and info.!, much appreciated!, ya indeed, it does have a z axis input, in the back, it was my primary reason in nabbing it, unsure what is meant by x y z band widths?... I know my scope is 20 mhz, but I have hard other measurements thrown about pertaining to the input levels?... Forgive my total nob Ness, I am new to oscilloscopes too!, as fortune would favour, I do possess two tiptop smart vcas, some cv mixing and plenty of modulation ( maths included) so might have some useful tools already?)...

Wanting to maybe make sure the scope. Was capable before jumping I to a visual cortex, which logically would be my first dive?.. I can always order and have shipped the module, but the scope or screen, due to my geography, much harder.

I am very much looking forward to exporting this art form, I find it possibly one of the best things I have ever seen!

Thanks again, much appreciated!

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mortal3
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Post by mortal3 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:04 pm

Cobramatic wrote:
mortal3 wrote:Hi everyone, stoked for all this information here as searching mere Google while muffwiggler was down yielded very minimaI always results in the field of vector rescanning, an art form I have only just found and am utterly captivated by... And indeed, if I can, wish to explore. I live in New Zealand, and am fairly isolated as far as access to some kins if equipment ( oscilloscopes/vector monitors are expensive to ship etc) but recently picked up one of these http://www.buy17.com/JP/ARON/bs601.htm

Could anyone please tell me if I am on the right track with this one, I brought it before I could read any threads on the topic, so a bit of a gamble...

Could I begin my foray with this plus the lzx visual cortex quite simply?.., total no obvious to this.. But I do have quite an established 'audio' eurorack modular, so was hoping to perhaps utilise some of it... I have a lot of reading to do, and all of this video synthesis side of things is totally new, but so enticing!... any help on getting me started would be much appreciated.



Thanks in advance.
That scope 'might' work but I don't see a z-axis input - unless it is on the back?
The Z intensity control on the front is not enough - you need to be able to input your video signal there.
Even if it does have a Z input you have to get the voltages right - I tried some scopes with a z-input but it can be difficult to get the levels right.
See my other posts in this thread for which scope worked very well for me (The Leader).

Once you get the right scope you can use the Visual cortex in combo with some of your eurorack gear to get some scanning and other fun going.
The thing you will need is to mix the Ramps in with the video signal going into X and Y on the scope - so ideally you need a CV mixer for this (The BSO one is cheapest and the LZX Blending matrix is the best, but a euro one should work too).

Many eurorack oscillators, EG's, LFO's and even some filters work well with LZX and the video signals - watch the voltage difference (1V LZX vs 5V euro), use euro scalers, attenuverters and mixers if you have them.

Various threads in this section give you more details but I can tell you the Doepfer basic Oscilator is good for horizontal lines and does lock to the sync signal well.
TipTop Smart VCO also great.
WMD Gamma Wave source is cool for weird shapes but harder to sync.
Maleko Anti-Oscilator and Borg Filters are good for lower (video) frequency shaping. You can get some vertical lines and some great 'smearing' with them.
The 4ms PEG is excellent for modulating stuff as it has a voltage scaler on board.
Loads of other stuff works well to varying degrees - just experiment!
This oscilloscope was very popular, and was marketed under many names, such as; Tenma 72-720, Elenco MO-1251, Hung Chang OS-620, Neotronics OS-620, JDR Model 2000, A-1 Electronics, AW Sperry 620C, Tenma 72-320, Dick Smith Q-1240, Aron BS-601, Degem System 112, Ramsey Model 2200, KB Electronics Model 33330, OMRON PAN-8022, Ramsey BS-601, OMRON PAN 8022

Specifications from sales literature:

Dual trace 20 MHz oscilloscope; vertical amplifiers have sensitivity of 5mV/DIV; the highest triggering sweep is 0.2us/DIV; bandwidth, -3 dB; AC: 10 Hz to 20 MHz; DC: DC to 20 MHz;

Features: wide bandwidth & high sensitivity; TV VIDEO SYNC filter included; High frequency rejection filter

Here is some more info i found re my specific scope, does any of this mean anything useful to anyone, what does tv video sync filter mean?, anything relevant to vector rescanning?

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Cobramatic
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Post by Cobramatic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:44 pm

mortal3 wrote:Thanks so much for the reply and info.!, much appreciated!, ya indeed, it does have a z axis input, in the back, it was my primary reason in nabbing it, unsure what is meant by x y z band widths?... I know my scope is 20 mhz, but I have hard other measurements thrown about pertaining to the input levels?... Forgive my total nob Ness, I am new to oscilloscopes too!, as fortune would favour, I do possess two tiptop smart vcas, some cv mixing and plenty of modulation ( maths included) so might have some useful tools already?)...

Wanting to maybe make sure the scope. Was capable before jumping I to a visual cortex, which logically would be my first dive?.. I can always order and have shipped the module, but the scope or screen, due to my geography, much harder.

I am very much looking forward to exporting this art form, I find it possibly one of the best things I have ever seen!

Thanks again, much appreciated!
I'm no expert on scopes but there is fair bit of info in the video threads here about different peoples experiences with different scopes.
All I can tell you is that I tried about 3 others with a Z-axis and found it very frustrating to get the voltages right at the z-input in order to get some meaningful results.
Sometimes all I could get was a tiny image - and even when I tried to boost the voltage it wouldn't work.

As I said previously that all changed once I got a Leader scope - it pretty well worked straight out of the box and was very happy with LZX voltage ranges.

You don't need a Visual Cortex to get started - you might be able to find a 2nd hand LZX Ramps and the older original In and out modules (Video Sync Generator and Colour Video Encoder) - that's what I have - with the Blending Matrix, and it works really well.

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mortal3
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Post by mortal3 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:07 am

Cobramatic wrote:
mortal3 wrote:Thanks so much for the reply and info.!, much appreciated!, ya indeed, it does have a z axis input, in the back, it was my primary reason in nabbing it, unsure what is meant by x y z band widths?... I know my scope is 20 mhz, but I have hard other measurements thrown about pertaining to the input levels?... Forgive my total nob Ness, I am new to oscilloscopes too!, as fortune would favour, I do possess two tiptop smart vcas, some cv mixing and plenty of modulation ( maths included) so might have some useful tools already?)...

Wanting to maybe make sure the scope. Was capable before jumping I to a visual cortex, which logically would be my first dive?.. I can always order and have shipped the module, but the scope or screen, due to my geography, much harder.

I am very much looking forward to exporting this art form, I find it possibly one of the best things I have ever seen!

Thanks again, much appreciated!
I'm no expert on scopes but there is fair bit of info in the video threads here about different peoples experiences with different scopes.
All I can tell you is that I tried about 3 others with a Z-axis and found it very frustrating to get the voltages right at the z-input in order to get some meaningful results.
Sometimes all I could get was a tiny image - and even when I tried to boost the voltage it wouldn't work.

As I said previously that all changed once I got a Leader scope - it pretty well worked straight out of the box and was very happy with LZX voltage ranges.

You don't need a Visual Cortex to get started - you might be able to find a 2nd hand LZX Ramps and the older original In and out modules (Video Sync Generator and Colour Video Encoder) - that's what I have - with the Blending Matrix, and it works really well.
Top man, sound advice, thankyou I really appreciate it. I may hunt the bst for those lil bits, if my scope is not up to the task I will huntout one like yours, what is the model leader?, sorry it seems search function is not working for me.

I am wondering if there is a basic hookup I can do without any dedicated lzx modules, just to see if i am going to possibly get a basic image?, like say, dvd player yellow rca out to a bnc adapter straight into the z axis input? ( just the picture signal straight in..) forgive my ignorance, but is this likely to yield any result at all?.. Or do I have to have at least the basic building blocks you mention just to get to first base?.. Thanks so much!

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Cobramatic
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Post by Cobramatic » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:37 pm

mortal3 wrote:
Top man, sound advice, thankyou I really appreciate it. I may hunt the bst for those lil bits, if my scope is not up to the task I will huntout one like yours, what is the model leader?, sorry it seems search function is not working for me.

I am wondering if there is a basic hookup I can do without any dedicated lzx modules, just to see if i am going to possibly get a basic image?, like say, dvd player yellow rca out to a bnc adapter straight into the z axis input? ( just the picture signal straight in..) forgive my ignorance, but is this likely to yield any result at all?.. Or do I have to have at least the basic building blocks you mention just to get to first base?.. Thanks so much!
My Scope is a Leader LBO-51MA - check a few pages back in this thread to see some examples from my screen. It is a great scope because it ALSO has a removable screen - so no more lines over your beautiful images!

I haven't done any rescanning for some time as my scope is still in storage since I moved house - but from memory you can test your Z-input by inputting your video signal and you should just basically see the image on the screen (like a mini monitor).

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mortal3
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Post by mortal3 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:45 pm

Cobramatic wrote:
mortal3 wrote:
Top man, sound advice, thankyou I really appreciate it. I may hunt the bst for those lil bits, if my scope is not up to the task I will huntout one like yours, what is the model leader?, sorry it seems search function is not working for me.

I am wondering if there is a basic hookup I can do without any dedicated lzx modules, just to see if i am going to possibly get a basic image?, like say, dvd player yellow rca out to a bnc adapter straight into the z axis input? ( just the picture signal straight in..) forgive my ignorance, but is this likely to yield any result at all?.. Or do I have to have at least the basic building blocks you mention just to get to first base?.. Thanks so much!
My Scope is a Leader LBO-51MA - check a few pages back in this thread to see some examples from my screen. It is a great scope because it ALSO has a removable screen - so no more lines over your beautiful images!

I haven't done any rescanning for some time as my scope is still in storage since I moved house - but from memory you can test your Z-input by inputting your video signal and you should just basically see the image on the screen (like a mini monitor).

Wow... They look great, if I can ever achieve anything close to that I will be happy indeed!.. OK, I shall try that as an initial test..., good signs that my scope ' may' be suitable would be, bright image?.. Clear image etc?... I am trying to research the x y and z bandwidth specs for my oscilloscope but there is not too much info out there, I am using the leader lbo 51 ma 's specs as a baseline reference, from memory, x 3mhx y 3mhz and z 4mhz..., so logically.. If mine has similar specs I am that one step closer... Cheers!

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drumasaurusrex
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Post by drumasaurusrex » Thu May 24, 2018 2:17 pm

smrl wrote:OO! there's a Z-axis in already behind a panel on the back.

I will definitely let you know how I get on with it.

Perhaps it's worth looking at how that was implemented on the heathkit to mod a different scope. Looks pretty simple.

http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=39753
I have a Heathkit / Bell&Howell scope without a Z-input. From what I gather, you say you found one behind a back panel? Can you share any more details? And... how did it all work out for you?

Cheers

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Post by jgriessen » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:31 pm

I've got a Tektronix 620 monitor with removable graticule. Found this discussion when looking up what it might be good for.

What video game consoles are used to generate interesting vectors to display?
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snufkin
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Post by snufkin » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:42 am

jgriessen wrote:I've got a Tektronix 620 monitor with removable graticule. Found this discussion when looking up what it might be good for.

What video game consoles are used to generate interesting vectors to display?
Hey there aren't many video game systems that output vector graphics (only very rare early systems would have used external monitors)

The Vectrex drives it's own internal monitor.

What you can do is get a DC coupled sound card and the run xyz signals out from your computer running any kind of software emulator or one of the great creative tools like oscistudio, REWEREHERE, Derek's Vector Synthesis library etc.
Last edited by snufkin on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

jgriessen
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Post by jgriessen » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:11 pm

Thanks for recommending oscistudio, REWEREHERE Derek's Vector Synthesis library.
JG

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jestern77
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Post by jestern77 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Hi guys, been on MF for a while but never used the Video Synthesis forum section...
This is what I do: https://www.instagram.com/_jestern_/

As you see I use the Vectrex a lot and unfortunately I hit the brickwall of bandwidth so my corners are becoming rounder and rounder. So I need a better display.

I'm reading here but I'm confused about scopes frequencies... for example 20Mhz, or 40 or 100, what should I need for rescanning in principle?

I use now Max on a Motu soundcard at 192KHz. I think i'd like a scope without graticule and possibly Z continuous modulation. If anybody got one extra I'll make a good use of it. I'm happy to ship overseas .. or any reccomendations on which models to look for? Is that Hitachi-V-423-5080743-40MHz a good candidate?
Weekly laser videos: https://www.instagram.com/_jestern_/
Full laser videos: https://vimeo.com/jestern

strutter
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Post by strutter » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:29 pm

Is there a way to make the Leader LBO-51MA not green by taking out some kind of a green plastic?

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Post by nerdware » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:52 pm

Yes, if you can remove the graticule. That's the bit that covers the screen. It tints the display and perhaps adds a grid, so a 'scope that makes removing the graticule easy will help. E.g. a graticule fixed in place using screws that can be removed. The Leader LBO-51MA is just such a 'scope. :tu:
https://vimeo.com/user2264453
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strutter
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Post by strutter » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Thats awesome!! The removable graticule is such a nice thing, too bad its quite rare in scopes.

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