THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:42 pm

plainofjars wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:57 pm
Is it possible—a la the RE-501—to set the TE-2 to one single echo and record the echo sound while monitoring only the unaffected (and therefore undelayed) input sound?

Ie. I’d like to record through the TE-2 for just tape saturation without echoes but obviously I’d like to be able to monitor without the latency (fine of course if the monitored signal isn’t hitting the tape).

Also, do you have any thoughts about the fidelity of the TE-2 relative to that of the RE-501, even if these are just your hypothetical/theoretical thoughts?

Thank youuu
Not entirely sure if I understand what you’re seeking but if you’re referring to some people’s talked about trick of hitting a Roland tape echo’s input for its input amp stage sound, ignoring tape/echo/delay all together, you probably won’t have any noticeable change/benefit to the original sound in doing that with a TE-2. The circuit is built to be open and transparent. This unit is also an audio interfacing/adapting tool separate from the tape echo use. It is a set of great neutral sounding pathways at all of the standard audio levels. Also, from my experience with Roland echoes, I can never re-incorporate the dry sound into the total mix because it would be slightly out of phase with the real dry sound on the mixing console. Not 180, more like 50 or something tough to use or correct. But maybe that was just the models I have used. Haven’t used a 501.

I’ve always been curious about the input stage trick though. Never made the time to try that.

As for comparing an old tape echo to a TE-2, that’s the very first thing to consider. Is the Roland fully restored to new sounding condition? Ala Soundgas restoration/pricing? You can only compare after that happens to the Roland. Otherwise there will be all sorts of fidelity/sonic set backs and it won’t be a very fair competition.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm

In this video he's using the Marantz to add some degredation (not echoes) to the audio:

I imagine this would be possible with the TE-2. Full wet, no feedback on the delay and use the built-in sequencer to affect some parameters (?)

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:51 pm

mekohler wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm
In this video he's using the Marantz to add some degredation (not echoes) to the audio:

I imagine this would be possible with the TE-2. Full wet, no feedback on the delay and use the built-in sequencer to affect some parameters (?)
Very much so. Will put together a demo of a fully wet echoless signal passing through specifically to hit the tape in slower speeds which is where all of this color/instability is found.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Organism » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:41 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:37 pm
Siiiiiiick

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by plainofjars » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:16 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:51 pm
mekohler wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm
In this video he's using the Marantz to add some degredation (not echoes) to the audio:

I imagine this would be possible with the TE-2. Full wet, no feedback on the delay and use the built-in sequencer to affect some parameters (?)
Very much so. Will put together a demo of a fully wet echoless signal passing through specifically to hit the tape in slower speeds which is where all of this color/instability is found.
I think this answers my question (affirmatively). The RE-501 can be used to just pass recorded audio through for tape saturation, with no echoes in the passed-through track, just tape saturation. It’s obviously a somewhat dirtier method than multi tracking through a tape machine, but it’s useful and easy for adding tape saturation—and not nearly as lo-fi as a 201. Obviously you have to offset the re-recorded track by a millisecond or whatever to compensate for the latency inherent in the process.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by plainofjars » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:13 am

Ah yes, confirmed here I think. "When feedback is turned down, we're effectively hearing a tape recording."

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuxgeUbFPnU ... _copy_link

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:29 pm

:yay:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:05 pm

mekohler wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:29 pm
plainofjars wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:13 am

Korg Lambda played live through the TE-2 with just the Tape Level up.
Speed is down a bunch to get some instability. Can be made more unstable and less unstable.
Bonus lo-fi here is that there are some random audio drop outs probably from the old tape that was used for this.
LPF is turned down a little bit just for tone shaping of the synth. The tape is also hit a little hard but not to the point of distorting.

Needless to say there is endless variation with mechanical things. Touch the speed in either direction, change the cassette, go to a different part of the same cassette that might have an imperfection in tension or something, and you'll get different mechanical results.

Putting already reverb'd sound, or adding reverb after the fact, will give you a very different soundscape.

Last edited by MotoModular on Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Ugh, perfect...excited to get my hands on it! When you get a chance one of these days I would love a demo of sound on sound, dirty, lofi piano loops!

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by plainofjars » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Thanks a bunch. Sounds very cool. I would love to hear what it sounds like at maximum stability and fidelity, no echoes, on some acoustic recorded material—an acoustic guitar track, a guitar cab, a straight vocal, those sorts of things. Im interested this as a subtle tape saturator for those sorts of sources on each track in a single piece. Thanks again. Really hope it's close to production. I'm hypersalivating.

Also, is it possible to monitor the pre-tape input from the TE-2 while recording the post-tape output?

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Rudloe » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:58 pm

plainofjars wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:13 am
Ah yes, confirmed here I think. "When feedback is turned down, we're effectively hearing a tape recording."

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuxgeUbFPnU ... _copy_link
When the feedback is turned down on the TE-1, are we also just hearing a tape recording?

Thanks

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:16 pm

Rudloe wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:58 pm

When the feedback is turned down on the TE-1, are we also just hearing a tape recording?

Thanks
plainofjars wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:28 pm
Also, is it possible to monitor the pre-tape input from the TE-2 while recording the post-tape output?
Yes, on both the TE-1 and TE-2, the Dry is the input signal before it hits tape. This is the same thing as monitoring Input on any proper tape machine. However we also have levels so can turn them up or down to taste for delay-effect application/purposes of course. But Dry up / Tape down is the same thing as monitoring Input on a tape machine, and Dry down / Tape up is the same as monitoring "Repro" on a tape machine.

You can record freely (with your Tape-In knob setting your level that hits tape) and the Dry signal simply passes through and is always available live via the Dry level knob. If you want you can fully turn down the Tape Level knob while recording and not monitor tape at all, only monitor live Dry, then after recording you can rewind and play back and the recording will be there if you turn up your Tape Level knob again to hear it. The Tape Level and Dry Level knobs are output levels only. They do not impact recording/echoes whatsoever. The VU meter always monitors tape. So even if you turn down your Tape Level knob, you can still visually monitor the recording process while ignoring the sound of it. Dry level does not get represented on the VU at any time. There are LED clipping indicators at appropriate spots though.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 am

If anyone is curious, this is the core part of the validation station.
What you see here is the audio of the TE-2. The entire tape heads amp circuit, levels, inputs, outputs, filters, feedback, drive, insert, bias oscillation, transport and motor control, etc.
Once the PCB shows up, any changes can be experimented with in a matter of a few hours in this setup rather than having to have multiple rounds of down time between SMT revisions or rather than trying to hack microscopic pathways. This will stay functionally in place for a long time, as a backup reference point just to have. Needless to say, building this and the CV stuff was difficult and time consuming, but afterward it brought a multitude of sonic performance adjustments to the schematic very quickly, which we all benefit from now.
On a side note, one key thing we did was implement small jumpers in the board/schematic between many of the audio core segments of the TE-2. Things like post input matrix, post tape, pre filters, between filters, post filters, pre feedback, etc. They are permanently in the design and have their own small row on the board and can be hand pulled. This allows for fast testing both in this current phase at hand with the board, and also during production for hookup approval testing of individual segments. If anything ends up faulty now and in the future, we know where the problem lies so what to investigate and report.
Additionally, the jumpers function as connection points for linking two TE-2's together. These jumpers, along with an assortment of CV points on the board, are the basis for dual/stereo TE-2 echoes. Things are buffered where needed.
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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:16 pm


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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by DSC » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:52 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 am

Image
Folktek eat your heart out!!!
Beautiful!!!!
:tu:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by cg_funk » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:30 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 am
If anyone is curious, this is the core part of the validation station.
What you see here is the audio of the TE-2. The entire tape heads amp circuit, levels, inputs, outputs, filters, feedback, drive, insert, bias oscillation, transport and motor control, etc.
Once the PCB shows up, any changes can be experimented with in a matter of a few hours in this setup rather than having to have multiple rounds of down time between SMT revisions or rather than trying to hack microscopic pathways. This will stay functionally in place for a long time, as a backup reference point just to have. Needless to say, building this and the CV stuff was difficult and time consuming, but afterward it brought a multitude of sonic performance adjustments to the schematic very quickly, which we all benefit from now.
On a side note, one key thing we did was implement small jumpers in the board/schematic between many of the audio core segments of the TE-2. Things like post input matrix, post tape, pre filters, between filters, post filters, pre feedback, etc. They are permanently in the design and have their own small row on the board and can be hand pulled. This allows for fast testing both in this current phase at hand with the board, and also during production for hookup approval testing of individual segments. If anything ends up faulty now and in the future, we know where the problem lies so what to investigate and report.
Additionally, the jumpers function as connection points for linking two TE-2's together. These jumpers, along with an assortment of CV points on the board, are the basis for dual/stereo TE-2 echoes. Things are buffered where needed.
Image
Holy moly! I hope you don't have a cat! Just looking at all those wires gives me a lot of anxiety.

This has been one of the most exciting and interesting threads to lurk/follow over the past year. It's super exciting to hear all the demos!
I love this 'everything and the kitchen sink' tape echo project. It's just awesome! :sb:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 pm

Thank you everyone.
Nope no cats in the shop!
Didn't get to post as many demos this week as i would have liked, due to hands being full just wrapping this all up asap.
Validations are turning out well. In some ways even better than anticipated. Green lighting this thing shortly for the birthing process.
More eccentric features should be demo'd next week.
Happy Friday!

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Thorsday » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 am

Goodness gracious... :spin: :spin:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:57 pm


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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:14 pm

Lovely!

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by slumberjack » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:35 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:57 pm
Sounds dope! Is this a manipulation of a stream of audio processed live through the Space Case or a recorded segment on the tape? How is the pitch shift created, with note information, a joystick or what else?
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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:13 pm

slumberjack wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:35 pm
Sounds dope! Is this a manipulation of a stream of audio processed live through the Space Case or a recorded segment on the tape? How is the pitch shift created, with note information, a joystick or what else?
This is a found cassette. About 3 years ago an old tape player showed up here with a tape still in it and this is it. The whole phone call on a cassette recorded probably around late 80’s early 90’s.

The tape is just being played back and messed with live. A lot of the action comes from the Motor Kill feature but also some basic adjustment of the Time(speed) knob, and the Rewind button with the tape still engaged so that we can hear the rewind.

The Motor Kill feature is via the Jack labeled MTR on the unit. If that jack receives 5V, it kills the motor for however long 5V is held. And FYI if you patch your 5V source into the rear panel cv processing jacks and then patch that output up and into the MTR jack, you’re then doing the opposite... The motor is killed at all times until it receives 5V.. that’s how the Instagram video featured a long time ago was accomplished. I’ll explain more about the rear panel cv processing at a later time.

But in this current demo, the motor kill is activated by 5V, so just hooking up a CV keyboard’s gate output to the MTR jack let’s you kill the motor by hand at any time. So all of the quick downs and ups are done with this. However long you hold the gate, the motor is dead, and when you let it go it comes back up to speed. If you hold it briefly and/or keep pressing it rapidly, you are effectively hand modulating time/speed. Kind of like turning the Time knob swiftly back and forth but you can’t do that this fast and sharply. And pressing it once is more or less a hand made negative Anomoly.

Given the effectiveness of having motor kill live controlled by hand, I’d like to at some point issue everyone small breakout buttons that hook up to the CV jack which can then be patched into MTR. Sitting next to the TE-2, it would be nice to have for live stuff. For instance you could freeze the playback/echoes for a period of time for whatever reason.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by slumberjack » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:02 pm

MotoModular wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:13 pm
slumberjack wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:35 pm
Sounds dope! Is this a manipulation of a stream of audio processed live through the Space Case or a recorded segment on the tape? How is the pitch shift created, with note information, a joystick or what else?
This is a found cassette. About 3 years ago an old tape player showed up here with a tape still in it and this is it. The whole phone call on a cassette recorded probably around late 80’s early 90’s.

The tape is just being played back and messed with live. A lot of the action comes from the Motor Kill feature but also some basic adjustment of the Time(speed) knob, and the Rewind button with the tape still engaged so that we can hear the rewind.

The Motor Kill feature is via the Jack labeled MTR on the unit. If that jack receives 5V, it kills the motor for however long 5V is held. And FYI if you patch your 5V source into the rear panel cv processing jacks and then patch that output up and into the MTR jack, you’re then doing the opposite... The motor is killed at all times until it receives 5V.. that’s how the Instagram video featured a long time ago was accomplished. I’ll explain more about the rear panel cv processing at a later time.

But in this current demo, the motor kill is activated by 5V, so just hooking up a CV keyboard’s gate output to the MTR jack let’s you kill the motor by hand at any time. So all of the quick downs and ups are done with this. However long you hold the gate, the motor is dead, and when you let it go it comes back up to speed. If you hold it briefly and/or keep pressing it rapidly, you are effectively hand modulating time/speed. Kind of like turning the Time knob swiftly back and forth but you can’t do that this fast and sharply. And pressing it once is more or less a hand made negative Anomoly.

Given the effectiveness of having motor kill live controlled by hand, I’d like to at some point issue everyone small breakout buttons that hook up to the CV jack which can then be patched into MTR. Sitting next to the TE-2, it would be nice to have for live stuff. For instance you could freeze the playback/echoes for a period of time for whatever reason.
Thanks you, very informative and well explained. guess a latching gate button or fsr would be nice to have or something like following even more since you might want more options https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-u-070-gate-tap and I'm happy to try it with the neural network and logic options from https://www.modulargrid.net/e/arc-artif ... al-network. I've got the mandarin learing tapes somewhere around I used on my first release...now let's put them back on track. :party:
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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:29 pm

This weekend is a big weekend of various file wrap ups, decided to set up at home for it since the rest of the fam is out of town.
Was messaging about wow and flutter with someone and decided to put demo #012 on the bluetooth speaker.
Comet has very mixed feelings about wow and flutter!



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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Thorsday » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:08 am

You're on Muffs, Jim. Cat lovers are abound. I, however, am the minority, and, am a dog person. Very cute video... Comet is adorable. The TE-2 is a warm idea. Loving the content... Thank you!

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