Behringer 2600

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Chopper
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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Chopper » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:21 am

I really dislike the LED.
Two-minded about the format.....
That reverb is ok on a early 2000 behringer mixer. Not on a 2600 clone.
Very good sounding synth overall, but not close to the 2600 the way their Odyssey is....

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:26 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:13 am
Also, wow, that reverb.. it'd be ok in a budget Euro module, but in a 2600? It's an insult. The target market might not care, but a spring reverb is conspicuous by its absence.
Where are they going to fit it inside that small case?

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Kattefjaes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:30 am

SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:26 am
Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:13 am
Also, wow, that reverb.. it'd be ok in a budget Euro module, but in a 2600? It's an insult. The target market might not care, but a spring reverb is conspicuous by its absence.
Where are they going to fit it inside that small case?
Absolutely. Presumably that was part of the calculus, what they could lose to make it smaller, just one of the compromises inherent in doing that. Obviously no-one expects Uli to clone TARDIS technology too.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:02 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:30 am
SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:26 am
Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:13 am
Also, wow, that reverb.. it'd be ok in a budget Euro module, but in a 2600? It's an insult. The target market might not care, but a spring reverb is conspicuous by its absence.
Where are they going to fit it inside that small case?
Absolutely. Presumably that was part of the calculus, what they could lose to make it smaller, just one of the compromises inherent in doing that. Obviously no-one expects Uli to clone TARDIS technology too.
They could make the analog spring reverb an optional external module that you could purchase that you could attach to the back.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Kattefjaes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:26 am

I think part of it is that they didn't want to be responsible for a spring tank and all that entails. Behringer aren't famous for their QA and low return rate to dealers, after all.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Shledge » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:39 am

LEDs can be turned off, so not really an issue there. Not particularly bothered by a lack of spring reverb, already have one in my modular.

I like how it sounds - it's raw, straight to business. Rack mountable is a large plus too.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by StillNotWorking » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:45 am

kons wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:49 am
Absolutely agree on the reverb. It's awful. My exact thought was that when he brought in the reverb it just sounded like an underwhelming softsynth.

Well at least I don't have to worry about whether or not to add yet another beh to the 'want' list.
Don't know what practice B has on other synth released? But Korg's way of making modification points on PCB might be a clever idea to clone?
So people could make a send/return and disconnect the internal effect but still use the fader.

Edit: A thought popped like an 3 year old B cap. With the digital effect inside, are EG, LFO etc digital emulation of the real thing or analog?
looking for service manual for the Clavia ddrum AT or ddrum III

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:15 pm

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:26 am
I think part of it is that they didn't want to be responsible for a spring tank and all that entails. Behringer aren't famous for their QA and low return rate to dealers, after all.
The $10 they would have to pay for them wholesale if they didn't make them in-house would probably be 1/4 of the parts cost of the synth.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Mirolab » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:14 pm

Love this synth from what I see.... Sounds good and looks fun & inspiring to play.
- prefer the lighter paint scheme.
- like the lighted sliders (they can be turned off, so why the complaints?)
- love the sliders (really... people complain about the sliders?? Most synths have knobs. Get one of those.)
- hate the spring quality (not saying it should be a real spring, but delay would be more useful)

I really want one of the new Behringer synths, but so many!.... which to choose? It might be this one, if I can justify the space for it.
I'm OK with it being "inspired by" the 2600 without being a true clone, especially since Korg seems to have that base covered.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Kattefjaes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:22 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:15 pm
Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:26 am
I think part of it is that they didn't want to be responsible for a spring tank and all that entails. Behringer aren't famous for their QA and low return rate to dealers, after all.
The $10 they would have to pay for them wholesale if they didn't make them in-house would probably be 1/4 of the parts cost of the synth.
Behringer actually said they didn't want to be responsible for the spring tank at some point, I believe.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:22 pm
SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:15 pm
Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:26 am
I think part of it is that they didn't want to be responsible for a spring tank and all that entails. Behringer aren't famous for their QA and low return rate to dealers, after all.
The $10 they would have to pay for them wholesale if they didn't make them in-house would probably be 1/4 of the parts cost of the synth.
Behringer actually said they didn't want to be responsible for the spring tank at some point, I believe.
Is it really that much of a failure point? All this other gear with spring reverb tanks. I've never had one go bad. It sounds like an excuse to get down production costs as much as possible. Less than $2 worth of LCD screen and effects IC cost instead.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Kattefjaes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:38 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:33 pm
Is it really that much of a failure point? All this other gear with spring reverb tanks. I've never had one go bad. It sounds like an excuse to get down production costs as much as possible. Less than $2 worth of LCD screen and effects IC cost instead.
Goodness knows- I mean, they're more volatile and easy to screw up than a cheap DSP section, at least. Not gonna argue with it being fundamentally a cost thing though- the cheaper the parts and the smaller the case, the less it costs.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:46 pm

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:38 pm
SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:33 pm
Is it really that much of a failure point? All this other gear with spring reverb tanks. I've never had one go bad. It sounds like an excuse to get down production costs as much as possible. Less than $2 worth of LCD screen and effects IC cost instead.
Goodness knows- I mean, they're more volatile and easy to screw up than a cheap DSP section, at least. Not gonna argue with it being fundamentally a cost thing though- the cheaper the parts and the smaller the case, the less it costs.
I'd rather have them omit the reverb section entirely if they aren't going to put in an effort to at least make a spring reverb emulation sound like one. I had DAW plug-ins that sounded more authentic 20 years ago. You can make entire classes of sounds that are generated just by sending pulses of sound into a spring reverb tank and having it react in a certain way that won't be possible with the B2600 as it now exists. This was almost my favorite part about my Macbeth M5.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Kattefjaes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:19 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:46 pm
I'd rather have them omit the reverb section entirely if they aren't going to put in an effort to at least make a spring reverb emulation sound like one. I had DAW plug-ins that sounded more authentic 20 years ago. You can make entire classes of sounds that are generated just by sending pulses of sound into a spring reverb tank and having it react in a certain way that won't be possible with the B2600 as it now exists. This was almost my favorite part about my Macbeth M5.
The spring reverb and those weird little speakers (that you can mic up like a guitar cab) are two of the things that people loved about a real 2600. Won't find me disagreeing.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SteeVtheRipper » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:05 pm

Maybe they will start selling a dedicated synth effects box like Dreadbox with a real spring in it.

Interesting they changed to the black and orange, I guess to differentiate from the Korg. I’m partial to the blue face myself but they all look good. My Odyssey desktop is white.

I don’t really have a use for this as part of my collection but it may be a good gift for my partner who has always wanted at 2600....which of course means I get to use it too. See what I did there? Haha.

I’d actually be more interested in a mini version of the korg one. I like that form factor (the suitcase look) over the Behringer version.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by SynthBaron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:39 pm

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:05 pm
Maybe they will start selling a dedicated synth effects box like Dreadbox with a real spring in it.

Interesting they changed to the black and orange, I guess to differentiate from the Korg. I’m partial to the blue face myself but they all look good. My Odyssey desktop is white.
B seems keen to release different colors of each product, so I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to offer all 3 color variations (and some new ones).

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:57 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:02 am
They could make the analog spring reverb an optional external module that you could purchase that you could attach to the back.
Yes, this works well. I did fit both a large and -alternatiely- a small accutronics style tank in a 5U rack 2600. Did require MU-metal so adapted an external option like you've described.

Fully expect to see a 3rd party kit to do this for the B2600 :hihi:

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:05 pm

StillNotWorking wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:45 am
Edit: A thought popped like an 3 year old B cap. With the digital effect inside, are EG, LFO etc digital emulation of the real thing or analog?
Without actually knowing what they've done, would be surprised if the internal clock and EG/AR are not the original design.

However, it would *not* be a surprise if the LFO of their integrated 3620 function is digital instead of the original circuit. Since they've already got a MIDI2Cv there, and since most of those include LFO modulations. That would make sense and eliminate a number of parts. Am not a fan of digital LFOs, but would probably make the same choice in their shoes. if they have indeed done digital in the 3620 LFO and related.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:12 pm

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:05 pm
Interesting they changed to the black and orange, I guess to differentiate from the Korg. I’m partial to the blue face myself but they all look good.
There is enough difference between the early greys and the black-orange that choosing the latter is smart. Blue is yet another level of difference, and they're not going to hit that at all. Except maybe with paint. Like a fake Shelby Cobra.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by bemushroomed » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:28 pm

Really great sounding, which of course is expected from veteran Rob Keeble.

Couldn't care too much about the spring reverb, a good one can add to the sound, but a bad one will just make it sound crap.. i think i rather chose my own flavor for reverb.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by galanter2 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:17 am

If they had to use a digital reverb, how about a DSP running a convolution reverb using impulses with the original 2600 spring reverb, and a push button to cycle through some other spring reverbs, and a few classic plate reverbs while they were at it?

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by thermisonic » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:29 am

galanter2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:17 am
If they had to use a digital reverb, how about a DSP running a convolution reverb using impulses with the original 2600 spring reverb, and a push button to cycle through some other spring reverbs, and a few classic plate reverbs while they were at it?
Sounds costly to develop, at least in Behringer terms

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Analog Prophet » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:45 am

thermisonic wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:29 am
galanter2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:17 am
If they had to use a digital reverb, how about a DSP running a convolution reverb using impulses with the original 2600 spring reverb, and a push button to cycle through some other spring reverbs, and a few classic plate reverbs while they were at it?
Sounds costly to develop, at least in Behringer terms
I guess that’s what Behringer has in mind. To make different convolution algorithms presets is a piece of cake. I’ve made some with different results, for instance of the reverb tank of my Roland RE-201. And just for fun I even made one reverb algorithm of my studio companion; my Chihuahua barking - not that useful as a go to reverb, but it worked.

To be honest to Behringer, their engineers are smart guys. I wonder if they maybe made a good reverb but the recording or the reverb itself is out of phase, that can make anything good to sound crap...
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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by seta666 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:34 am

People like complaining, that is obvious.
You do not like the reverb? Add one that suits your needs..
You want to mic those small crappy speakers? There is lots of small computer speakers to choose from.

The important thing is the sound engine, and I think that sounds ace.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by beyourdog » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:59 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:19 pm
SynthBaron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:46 pm
I'd rather have them omit the reverb section entirely if they aren't going to put in an effort to at least make a spring reverb emulation sound like one. I had DAW plug-ins that sounded more authentic 20 years ago. You can make entire classes of sounds that are generated just by sending pulses of sound into a spring reverb tank and having it react in a certain way that won't be possible with the B2600 as it now exists. This was almost my favorite part about my Macbeth M5.
The spring reverb and those weird little speakers (that you can mic up like a guitar cab) are two of the things that people loved about a real 2600. Won't find me disagreeing.
I concure, loved the reverb and speakers. But it s a different setting than Charly home studio my ass. I loved having the 2600 in my bedroom or in a room and fiddle around durimg the day amd live with. The purpose is not to record whatever shit you make but living and breathing music all day...Hence the S/H, reverb, speakers which make the 2600 part of the room ambiance

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