Any 73-75 word?

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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anselmi
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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by anselmi » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:37 pm

rampy wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:56 pm
anselmi wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:20 am
like: what waveforms the oscillators can produce? by looking at the front panel they seems to be similar to the 158, with sine and sawtooth, maybe crossfaded by the waveshaper knob
Correct

anselmi wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:20 am
did they track accurately? have some pitch stability to play in tune with other gear?
I cannot speak first hand to the old oscillators, but I assume they do not track as well as the PCO/NTO that replaced them. My PCOs track well over 4 octaves.

anselmi wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:20 am
then the triple waveshaper, is it similar to the wave multipliers of other known Serge module?
They are different modules. The TWS is 3 of the same module that shapes a sine/tri into a saw like shape. Each section of the Wave Multipliers performs a different function.

anselmi wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:20 am
connectors looks like black is out and grey is...in? always? is red a logic input?
It looks like 73-75 is going for a specific aesthetic with their jack colors. I plan on building mine to the original Serge convention of Blue jacks indicating a DC voltage, Black jacks indicating a bipolar voltage, and Red jacks indicating a gate/trigger/logic function. You can make the jacks any color you like, just be aware of their function.

anselmi wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:20 am
sorry for the questions but I can´t found information about all this stuff
These sites give a comprehensive overview of most (all?) things Serge
http://www.serge-fans.com/
http://www.carbon111.com/serge.html
http://www.serge.synth.net/
https://www.elby-designs.com/contents/e ... dules.html

thanks for the reply
it seems that it´s not for me...I should go for the next generation to get what I want

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by vgermuse » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:30 am

Food for thought


Prebuilt from www.73-75.com

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by rec.Koner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:16 am

That fm groove in the end is lovely :yay:
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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by xradii » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:18 pm

Thanks for doing a proper video/recording with this panel vgermuse! It really does sound great and I would love one of these...soon I hope. :party:

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by tele_player » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:01 pm

A comment, based on my experience with the 73-75 Voice 'eDIY kit': just buy the built one. Especially if you want it in the (very nice) 73-75 boat with power supply.

Why? The cost savings is less than $100, when you add up the cost of the eDIY kit, the boat kit, the parts needed to complete the panel, parts needed to complete the power supply. Here in the US, you can't get everything from one place, so you'll be making several orders.
In my case, I ordered the kit from 73-75, most parts from Mouser, some hard to get chips from Modular Addict, knobs from Thonk (hard to find 6mm D shaft Davies 1900H clones).

Assembling the whole thing, while quite simple, will still take several hours.

Finally, and probably most important - there's no documentation for 'trimming' (calibrating) the 21 trim pots, and (at least) an oscilloscope and a function generator capable of producing a 12Hz square wave are needed. Plus, unlike the earlier Homebuilt, which uses through hole components, the Voice uses surface mount parts, complicating locating the test points on the back of the board after it's assembled.

All up, it's MANY hours of work, to save less than $100, and inadequate documentation for trimming and troubleshooting.

I understand it wasn't originally intended to be sold as a kit. In my opinion, it shouldn't be sold as a kit, at least not without a lot more documentation. And even with documentation, it wouldn't be worth the hours spent for the little money saved.
Last edited by tele_player on Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by lud » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:27 pm

The built version is really amazing value. If I didn't have those bases covered I'd be on it like a flash

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by Jonny » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:44 pm

I bought and am almost done assembling the eDIY voice and control panels. Even thought it is more work than buying built, I didn't like the look of the black slim skiff that the built versions come with, mostly since it doesn't match my homebuilt. I used a frequency central fc power ac psu and changed the 5 volt regulator to 6 volts. Seems to be working fine and most of the calibration for the whole thing was familiar from doing the homebuilt. I only needed to calibrate the envelope from the front so far, but just reverses the image from the home built kit. I didn't find it too hard to locate the trimmers, personally. So, if you want to do something a little different, like add LEDs, switches, put it in a hammond or bud boat, etc, the eDIY version is well worth the trouble. If you do get the eDIY and don't use the official boats with power supply, that will save you some extra money. If I recall correctly, I think together they both cost me around 1000-1200 with parts. I didn't mind doing orders from thonk/mouser/tayda.

But yes, the built version is a great value!

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by tele_player » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:43 am

Jonny wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:44 pm
I bought and am almost done assembling the eDIY voice and control panels. Even thought it is more work than buying built, I didn't like the look of the black slim skiff that the built versions come with, mostly since it doesn't match my homebuilt. I used a frequency central fc power ac psu and changed the 5 volt regulator to 6 volts. Seems to be working fine and most of the calibration for the whole thing was familiar from doing the homebuilt. I only needed to calibrate the envelope from the front so far, but just reverses the image from the home built kit. I didn't find it too hard to locate the trimmers, personally. So, if you want to do something a little different, like add LEDs, switches, put it in a hammond or bud boat, etc, the eDIY version is well worth the trouble. If you do get the eDIY and don't use the official boats with power supply, that will save you some extra money. If I recall correctly, I think together they both cost me around 1000-1200 with parts. I didn't mind doing orders from thonk/mouser/tayda.

But yes, the built version is a great value!
Yes, it's a better deal if you don't use the 73-75 black skiff and power supply. I have two Homebuilt kits here which will go in Bud boxes. And I'm waiting for some FC Power boards to arrive.

Obviously, finding the trimmers is easy. Looks like the Ring modulator and Envelope need front access to test points.
IMHO, it should have been a design requirement to provide these test points on the back of the board, so proper calibration can be done on an assembled unit. These boards are very sparse, there would have been no problem adding test points.

What procedure did you use to trim the R12 Filter?

Anyway, my point is that the assembled unit is a good value, the same thing from kits (panel eDIY and skiff/PS) isn't a good value.

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by Jonny » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:33 am

tele_player wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:43 am

Obviously, finding the trimmers is easy. Looks like the Ring modulator and Envelope need front access to test points.
IMHO, it should have been a design requirement to provide these test points on the back of the board, so proper calibration can be done on an assembled unit. These boards are very sparse, there would have been no problem adding test points.

What procedure did you use to trim the R12 Filter?

Anyway, my point is that the assembled unit is a good value, the same thing from kits (panel eDIY and skiff/PS) isn't a good value.
The pad needed for the ring mod is accessible from the back. You do need to use the front for the pin on the envelope. If you soldered the voice to the banana jacks I could see that being a major pain. That's the only test point I ran into that required front access. Jon at 73-75 didn't intend to release as ediy, so he probably didn't think of a test point on the back. There are a few errors too like removing a capacitor and swapping the jacks on the filter, but nothing worth redesigning the pcbs I imagine.

To calibrate the filter, I used the Elby 73 filter instructions. For the SSG, it seems the Random Source instructions are maybe a similar as the trimmers adjust rate. Everything else I got from the 73-75 homebuilt, although the ring mod instructions are sort of wrong if I recall. I recommend looking at cgs/elby if something is off.

I agree that it's not worth the trouble to diy if you want it the same as assembled.

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by Clockgate » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:37 am

tele_player wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:01 pm
A comment, based on my experience with the 73-75 Voice 'eDIY kit': just buy the built one. Especially if you want it in the (very nice) 73-75 boat with power supply.

Why? The cost savings is less than $100, when you add up the cost of the eDIY kit, the boat kit, the parts needed to complete the panel, parts needed to complete the power supply. Here in the US, you can't get everything from one place, so you'll be making several orders.
In my case, I ordered the kit from 73-75, most parts from Mouser, some hard to get chips from Modular Addict, knobs from Thonk (hard to find 6mm D shaft Davies 1900H clones).

Assembling the whole thing, while quite simple, will still take several hours.

Finally, and probably most important - there's no documentation for 'trimming' (calibrating) the 21 trim pots, and (at least) an oscilloscope and a function generator capable of producing a 12Hz square wave are needed. Plus, unlike the earlier Homebuilt, which uses through hole components, the Voice uses surface mount parts, complicating locating the test points on the back of the board after it's assembled.

All up, it's MANY hours of work, to save less than $100, and inadequate documentation for trimming and troubleshooting.

I understand it wasn't originally intended to be sold as a kit. In my opinion, it shouldn't be sold as a kit, at least not without a lot more documentation. And even with documentation, it wouldn't be worth the hours spent for the little money saved.
I bought a built 73-75 voice panel for exactly that reason. I have just finished a Swamp, and have a BOG panel and PCBs on the way. I never thought I would buy pre-built when a kit was available, but it is a no brainer at that price

The voice panel sounds superb, and the overall quality of the panel is excellent. The setup is also very good, and the VCOs track pretty well over several octaves. It is a shame there isn't an onboard mixer, but you can use the ring modulator or the VCAs to attenuate a signal, and the VCAs have AC and DC inputs.
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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by tele_player » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:24 pm

A BOCGS SWAMP looks like a good way to get the 73-75 stuff booping and beeping. Got any advice on best (most economical) way to buy it?

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by Clockgate » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:15 pm

tele_player wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:24 pm
A BOCGS SWAMP looks like a good way to get the 73-75 stuff booping and beeping. Got any advice on best (most economical) way to buy it?
Elby Designs in Australia sell the BOCGS panels & PCBS, in addition to component/hardware kits & boats/mounting kits.

https://www.elby-designs.com/contents/e ... BOCGS.html
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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by tele_player » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:11 pm

Yes, I meant to write that I’ve been studying the Elby Designs site, and wondered if there’s much to be saved by ordering as little there as possible? Looks like complete SWAMP kit from there is about $600 including about $60 shipping.

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by leftbracket » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:05 pm

Has there been any word on when the Control panel will be released? I've been following the 73-75 website and THC's Instagram and Youtube pages for updates, but all that's given is the planned release date of last month. I'm anxious to expand my Voice but have limited options due to my lack of R*S or STS money or DIY skills/resources; if the Control panel is significantly delayed, I may hold myself over by picking up some BugBrand (which I had been planning to do regardless as a more cost-efficient way to expand the two 73-75 panels).

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Re: Any 73-75 word?

Post by Jonny » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:35 pm

Hopefully soon, although the 73-75 page has been out of date before. Maybe it's taking longer since the factory messed up the holes in the panel. Also, wondering if all the Buchla stuff is taking attention away from the project. Personally, I'm really interested in the programmer panel as well as the ala carte DIY mentioned in the last video. I hope somehow Jon adds the phaser to the list of modules under the 73-75 umbrella...I think that's the main one that is missing from that time period of Serge besides maybe the ASR and Mixer?

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