VERBOS ELECTRONICS

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zerodivide
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by zerodivide » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:54 am

The Junglechrist wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:41 am
zerodivide wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:59 am
those who have the Verbos Complex Oscillator, some questions on inputs I rarely use..

1. When would you want to put something into the FM input of the Modulating Oscillator? Is that if you're using it as a separate oscillator and want to FM that on its own?

2. If I have CV going into either Oscillator's V/Oct, what am I doing with the CV input next it ? Kinda confused on the purpose of "C.v. input." for either osc. Is it just for offset really?

3. If I have the switch in the middle set to FM, but I'm also piping in a waveform from the Modulating Oscillator into the FM input of the Carrier Osc, what exactly is happening? It seems like its somehow doing FM twice because it doesnt sound like it breaks the normal and uses just the input
1. Yes, but you could also use this when the mod osc is synced to the first one, for "sync sweeps", for modulating the speed of vibrato / tremolo, or the FM ratio.

2. The "CV. input" on both VCO is an exponential FM input, while the "FM input" is linear. It mostly have a way bigger range for deeper modulation.

3. What is happening is more FM, possibly with a different shape. It is like mixing two waveform in a mixer before sending those to FM something, exept here you could have Expo FM from the mod bus + linear if pluging it into the "Fm in".

I hope this was helpfull

definitely! thanks

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youkon
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by youkon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:10 am

Complex, Dual Four Pole, Multi Delay Processor

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:35 am

Nice one @youkon ! The DFP really has grown on me, I love it now. I like to have a LxD afterwards to cut the noise, I need to try the over the top version with CO-DFP-ATC

Here's a little loop with said DFP/LxD combination creating a kick/bass pattern :

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by zerodivide » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:53 pm

Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:35 am
Nice one @youkon ! The DFP really has grown on me, I love it now. I like to have a LxD afterwards to cut the noise, I need to try the over the top version with CO-DFP-ATC

Here's a little loop with said DFP/LxD combination creating a kick/bass pattern :
nice texture

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by shockletit » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:15 am

Took delivery of a bunch of 2nd hand Verbos gear yesterday. Think I bit off more than I can chew, but couldn't pass it up: HO, CO, VM, DFP and Amplitude and Tone. Certainly going to take me awhile to get my head around all of it (nice lockdown problem to have I guess), but I can see that it's going to be fun.

Can anyone please point me to some decent documentation or how/in-depth to demos/patch tips & tricks type stuff on the Voltage Multistage?

Also, is it possible that a HO can get out of tune with itself? I was expecting a much clearer, purer sound from it and am wondering if it needs calibration or perhaps something might be wrong with it or whether this is just the nature of some of the harmonics? I'll try to post something later today to Soundcloud to illustrate...maybe someone with a HO can let me know if this is expected behaviour or not. Thanks.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by yellowecho » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:28 pm

shockletit wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:15 am
Also, is it possible that a HO can get out of tune with itself? I was expecting a much clearer, purer sound from it and am wondering if it needs calibration or perhaps something might be wrong with it or whether this is just the nature of some of the harmonics? I'll try to post something later today to Soundcloud to illustrate...maybe someone with a HO can let me know if this is expected behaviour or not. Thanks.
Start with the Width knob at 0 and all sliders in the down position (no lights showing).
Move the first slider up to hear the bass root. Move other sliders individually to blend in harmonics. The key here is taking things slow. If you start with everything maxed out it can sound like a mess unless you have a filter after it to subtract and sculpt the tone.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by mritenburg » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:39 pm

shockletit wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:15 am
Also, is it possible that a HO can get out of tune with itself? I was expecting a much clearer, purer sound from it and am wondering if it needs calibration or perhaps something might be wrong with it or whether this is just the nature of some of the harmonics?
The fundamental and all harmonics are produced from the same oscillator core. The harmonics are produced by various wave folding techniques. As a result, some of the harmonics are quite “buzzy” and even distorted sounding. So this part is absolutely expected. The buzziness and distortion also produces additional harmonics which may be inharmonious with the fundamental. Again, expected behavior. Now, if you were expecting a series of perfect sine waves for the fundamental and all harmonics, the reality might be disappointing, but still completely expected behavior.
Disappointment with any module is usually a failure of imagination.

Ummm, I guess you would call it techno.


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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by shockletit » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:49 pm

mritenburg wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:39 pm
As a result, some of the harmonics are quite “buzzy” and even distorted sounding. So this part is absolutely expected. The buzziness and distortion also produces additional harmonics which may be inharmonious with the fundamental. Again, expected behavior. Now, if you were expecting a series of perfect sine waves for the fundamental and all harmonics, the reality might be disappointing, but still completely expected behavior.
Thanks, that helps a lot, but I stumbled across this in the meantime while searching the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=142682&hilit=Verbo ... Oscillator
In particular this:

Post by timcoster » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:14 am
I had this happening on 3,5,7,8 when mine arrived - sent it back to get repaired ("noise on the internal power rail that's part of the wave multiplier circuit.") and it was much better.

Just wondering if that could be the case here? Hopefully not, it's just that I've got no sonic reference point to compare to, so appreciate any help anyone has to offer.
Here's a recording of it: https://soundcloud.com/user-314393983-2 ... Y0pMnkRsU9

If this is what it's supposed to sound like then I'll gladly reset my expectations, ;) just want to double-check with folks in the know here before it's too late to try do something about it with the seller if something is wrong with it - even if minor. Thanks.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Godphaser » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:56 pm

The HO sound varies greatly between revisions, I'd check that first.
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Yunsnare » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:10 pm

shockletit wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:49 pm
mritenburg wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:39 pm
As a result, some of the harmonics are quite “buzzy” and even distorted sounding. So this part is absolutely expected. The buzziness and distortion also produces additional harmonics which may be inharmonious with the fundamental. Again, expected behavior. Now, if you were expecting a series of perfect sine waves for the fundamental and all harmonics, the reality might be disappointing, but still completely expected behavior.
Thanks, that helps a lot, but I stumbled across this in the meantime while searching the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=142682&hilit=Verbo ... Oscillator
In particular this:

Post by timcoster » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:14 am
I had this happening on 3,5,7,8 when mine arrived - sent it back to get repaired ("noise on the internal power rail that's part of the wave multiplier circuit.") and it was much better.

Just wondering if that could be the case here? Hopefully not, it's just that I've got no sonic reference point to compare to, so appreciate any help anyone has to offer.
Here's a recording of it: https://soundcloud.com/user-314393983-2 ... Y0pMnkRsU9

If this is what it's supposed to sound like then I'll gladly reset my expectations, ;) just want to double-check with folks in the know here before it's too late to try do something about it with the seller if something is wrong with it - even if minor. Thanks.

I’m without headphones here and not in a silent place but for me it seems to be normal

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by mritenburg » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:18 pm

shockletit wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:49 pm
If this is what it's supposed to sound like then I'll gladly reset my expectations, ;) just want to double-check with folks in the know here before it's too late to try do something about it with the seller if something is wrong with it - even if minor. Thanks.
My HO is from the first batch that was available back in 2014. Here are what my harmonics sounds like individually, then with a width/center sweep. I recorded this example at 48k 24bit mono.
ho_example.wav
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shockletit
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by shockletit » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:01 pm

Thanks for your help and feedback everyone. I'm beginning to understand more about how unique these Verbos instruments are. Will accept it for what it is and enjoy working with it. Certainly doesn't sound drastically different from the example provided. Thanks again.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by headroom » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:03 pm

shockletit wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:15 am

Also, is it possible that a HO can get out of tune with itself? I was expecting a much clearer, purer sound from it and am wondering if it needs calibration or perhaps something might be wrong with it or whether this is just the nature of some of the harmonics? I'll try to post something later today to Soundcloud to illustrate...maybe someone with a HO can let me know if this is expected behaviour or not. Thanks.
On my new last year HO the fifth harmonic got very out of tune after changing cases / recalibrating a few times. It turned out to be easy to fix.

As well as the normal calibration procedure done from the front panel there are (on mine) 4 trimmers on the back for the 3rd, 5th and 7th harmonics and a 'sym' trimmer. I was able to get the harmonic spacing pretty perfect and calibrate out some of the buzziness wth the sym trimmer. Made me happy to discover how easy it is to trim.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by scuto » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:04 pm

zerodivide wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:54 am
The Junglechrist wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:41 am
zerodivide wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:59 am
those who have the Verbos Complex Oscillator, some questions on inputs I rarely use..

1. When would you want to put something into the FM input of the Modulating Oscillator? Is that if you're using it as a separate oscillator and want to FM that on its own?

2. If I have CV going into either Oscillator's V/Oct, what am I doing with the CV input next it ? Kinda confused on the purpose of "C.v. input." for either osc. Is it just for offset really?

3. If I have the switch in the middle set to FM, but I'm also piping in a waveform from the Modulating Oscillator into the FM input of the Carrier Osc, what exactly is happening? It seems like its somehow doing FM twice because it doesnt sound like it breaks the normal and uses just the input
1. Yes, but you could also use this when the mod osc is synced to the first one, for "sync sweeps", for modulating the speed of vibrato / tremolo, or the FM ratio.

2. The "CV. input" on both VCO is an exponential FM input, while the "FM input" is linear. It mostly have a way bigger range for deeper modulation.

3. What is happening is more FM, possibly with a different shape. It is like mixing two waveform in a mixer before sending those to FM something, exept here you could have Expo FM from the mod bus + linear if pluging it into the "Fm in".

I hope this was helpfull

definitely! thanks
In addition, my understanding is the modulation bus FM is via a vactrol, whereas the "C.V. Input" is not.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by mritenburg » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:26 pm

scuto wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:04 pm
In addition, my understanding is the modulation bus FM is via a vactrol, whereas the "C.V. Input" is not.
It also apparently depends on the version of the module. Some folks here have reported (and shown photos) of newer versions which don’t have any vactrols at all on the PCB.

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:51 pm

Having a lot of fun with fun with the Voltage Multistage/ Sequence Selector combo these isolated days. I'm sending gates to the sequence selector advanced by a somewhat erratic clock to trigger accents. Getting lots of cool sequences that way. Also been using the ref out for modulation a lot, escpecially cool when you tweak the time knob/cv.


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youkon
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by youkon » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:02 am

Two Complex toghether


I have an old one (vactrol) and a new one. Did a comparison video and will upload later
20200425_194905.jpg
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by ggillon » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:33 am

Just joined the happy Verbos modules owner's club. I started lusting after the HO when I heard Caterina Barbieri's tracks.

Here is me discovering it alongside the new Amp & Tone


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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by zerodivide » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:28 pm

youkon wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:02 am
Two Complex toghether


I have an old one (vactrol) and a new one. Did a comparison video and will upload later

20200425_194905.jpg
really looking fwd to the comparison video. Do you have a preference between the 2?

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by zerodivide » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:36 pm

so the newer Complex Oscillators are not Vactrol based? thats weird

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Hansi026 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:41 pm

Hi everybody,

so many experts here in this thread, with a lot of tipps, tricks, questions and answers, and very helpful thoughts :-)

there is a VERBOS USER group on facebook : https://www.facebook.com/groups/Verbos.Modules.Eurorack

Join the group if you like.



@Admin : If this link should not be allowed, please delete it ;-)

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youkon
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by youkon » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 am

here we go!
to vactrol or not to vactrol. Old versus new.

Complex Oscillator comparison:

upper one is rev5 from 2019, bottom one is from 2019 (on the picture, left one is the vactrol one)
20200425_194905.jpg


I concentrated on the wavefolder output, AM, FM and all modulated toghether.
The wavefolder output with wavefolder on CCW sounds different on both units.
The new CO has far more range for modulation and the new wavefolder delivers "better" results when waveform is heavy modulated by FM or AM.
The new on has in general more presence, some less bottom range and less "roaring" on the wavefolder.
All in all, the new one feels better to work with - means: feels very linear when sweeping through the wavefolder for example, frequency range feels more linear (less booom, more highs), frequency modulation is more interesting in high frequency ranges.

The vactrol one feels like the old hifi: big boom and mild in the upper ranges (sometimes feels a little "dull").
Who wonders - it feels more organic!
And there is some magic in the wavefolder and the low end which I miss on the new one when used to the vactrol CO

So: both have their strengths :-D :-D

enjoy and take some time!
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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by scuto » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:47 am

mritenburg wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:26 pm
scuto wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:04 pm
In addition, my understanding is the modulation bus FM is via a vactrol, whereas the "C.V. Input" is not.
It also apparently depends on the version of the module. Some folks here have reported (and shown photos) of newer versions which don’t have any vactrols at all on the PCB.
youkon wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 am
here we go!
to vactrol or not to vactrol. Old versus new.

Complex Oscillator comparison:

...

enjoy and take some time!
Wow, this is wild! I didn't expect this.

Looking forward to spending time with the video. While the older sound is better for my purposes, it's interesting to hear the effects of revision(s).

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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:40 pm

Thanks @youkon for the super comprehensive video. Mine seems to be without vactrol, but I've been too lazy to check.

I did a little dubby thing with the Bark Filter going into the Jomox T Res.


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Re: VERBOS ELECTRONICS

Post by Kroggel » Sat May 02, 2020 10:31 am

Guys, is this for real or am I not seeing the forest because of all the trees? Just got an complex OSC from Verbos. There are two Kinds of Screws inside the Package. One normal one which screws into my rails nicly but doesn´t fit through the holes on the Module and thinner screws which fit through the holes but won´t screw into the rails of the case? Am I dreaming. Are Verbos Stuff not build by Eurorack Standards? I have no Idea to be honest how to mount the module now.

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