ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

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Tim010
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ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Tim010 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:12 pm

Hé Guys,

I bought my self a ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’. With the idea to clock my modular with abelton or visa versa.
The problem is that i can not get it working. Some one here who can help me?

This is what i have avaible: MacBook+ableton, m-audio usb midi in/out, kenton d-sync and multiple midi cables.
I like to clock it to or from a pamela workout, trigger riot or stillton hammer.

I have tried al combinations posible but i think i am missing something.

If you guys have a solution. Please let me know.

Thanks

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daphnid
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by daphnid » Wed May 06, 2020 4:49 pm

I've found that 3.5mm to 5 pin adapter cables for midi are not universal. For example the one that came with my Faderfox controller doesn't work with my friend's SQ-1 and vice versa. It may be that this is only supposed to work with the PNW expander and may not be compatible with anything else.

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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:20 pm

MIDI and Din-Sync are completely different, even though they use the same connector. Pamela can't be clocked by MIDI, as far as I know, only by analog clock/DIN-Sync. Plugging a MIDI out to a DIN-Sync in just won't do anything.

Edit: whoops, just noticed the Kenton in your description. sorry. You're going MIDI out from audio interface > Kenton MIDI in > Kenton DIN out > Pam's adapter to the correct inputs?

kwaidan
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by kwaidan » Wed May 06, 2020 10:20 pm

It should work. I have an Intel based machine but I’ve clocked Euro with Ableton, an M-Audio Interface, and the Kenton MIDI/Din Sync box. Use Ableton as the master clock.

The problem may be with your MIDI cables. You need a cable with all five wires connected. Unfortunately, some cables omit two of the wires needed for Din Sync.

The Kenton box supports Sync-24 and Sync-48. Sync-24 is the default and that is what PW needs.

I don’t know if you’ve got Ableton setup right, but I don’t ever remember having a problem using it as a master clock.

Again, check the cables.

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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Tim010 » Thu May 07, 2020 4:31 am

daphnid wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:49 pm
I've found that 3.5mm to 5 pin adapter cables for midi are not universal. For example the one that came with my Faderfox controller doesn't work with my friend's SQ-1 and vice versa. It may be that this is only supposed to work with the PNW expander and may not be compatible with anything else.
This was in the discriptoin from perfectcircuit:

ALM Busy Circuits' Din-Sync Adapter cable lets users route “clock” and “run” Din-Sync signals via two 3.5mm mono jacks. It's a great way to sync one's eurorack modular sequencer with external drum machines, synthesizers, and more.

So it seems like univirsal.
kwaidan wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:20 pm
It should work. I have an Intel based machine but I’ve clocked Euro with Ableton, an M-Audio Interface, and the Kenton MIDI/Din Sync box. Use Ableton as the master clock.

The problem may be with your MIDI cables. You need a cable with all five wires connected. Unfortunately, some cables omit two of the wires needed for Din Sync.

The Kenton box supports Sync-24 and Sync-48. Sync-24 is the default and that is what PW needs.

I don’t know if you’ve got Ableton setup right, but I don’t ever remember having a problem using it as a master clock.

Again, check the cables.
I have the same setup as you discribe above.

ABELTON --> M-AUDIO MIDI OUT --> KENTON D-SYNC MIDI IN --> KENTON D-SNYC SYNC OUT --> EURORACK
in my eurorack i have tried multipe modules.
ALM001 -- Pamela's workout: one end of the cable to the CLOCK IN and the other to the RUN in. settings on the workout to C'24.
TRIGGER RIOT: one end of the cable to the CLOCK IN and the other to the RUN in. Settings: EXT, P24, First.

i also messaged ALM got the following reply "It should work in the set up you describe. Do you have a scope of anything that you can check the signals coming out of the Din adapter ?" I have no scope so i checked the manuael of the kenton d-sync. When signal is passing true the lights sould blink. It doesn't. So maybe it are the cables. But i find it strange. Got the same problem with a Miami 808 clone. I bought new cables. problem solved. I use the same cables. No luck this time.

Someone any ideas?

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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by kwaidan » Thu May 07, 2020 11:43 am

If you have a Miami, try to use it as the master clock with Pamela’s Workout. If you get it working, then you know you have a good cable.

You could also try clocking the Miami with the PW. Then, try clocking the Miami with Ableton. Eventually, you should isolate the problem.

Maybe the cable you had went bad. I do know some cables are MIDI only. HOSA cables should work but double check.

Make sure that you have everything correctly configured in PW. I sold my ages ago, so I can’t help.

Is power connected to the Kenton box?

If you have a free audio out, I believe you can clock PW with Ableton by setting up a 4/4 drum track and sending it to the clock input. I’m not sure if this trick will work with an AC coupled audio interface output (most are AC coupled). If you want to try it, run a search.

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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by wavecircle » Thu May 07, 2020 1:50 pm

MIDI cables and DIN-Sync cables are wired up differently, they aren't always interchangeable. If all 5 pins are hooked up it should be okay though.
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Tim010 » Thu May 07, 2020 3:33 pm

kwaidan wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:43 am
If you have a Miami, try to use it as the master clock with Pamela’s Workout. If you get it working, then you know you have a good cable.

You could also try clocking the Miami with the PW. Then, try clocking the Miami with Ableton. Eventually, you should isolate the problem.

Maybe the cable you had went bad. I do know some cables are MIDI only. HOSA cables should work but double check.

Make sure that you have everything correctly configured in PW. I sold my ages ago, so I can’t help.

Is power connected to the Kenton box?

If you have a free audio out, I believe you can clock PW with Ableton by setting up a 4/4 drum track and sending it to the clock input. I’m not sure if this trick will work with an AC coupled audio interface output (most are AC coupled). If you want to try it, run a search.
Sold al my hardware to support my eurorack habbit.

I think hope it’s the cables. On the m-audio the light is blinking when sending midi. On the kenton not. Bought a Doepfer din sync cable. Hope it solves everything. It’s for sure the Most Irritating Digital Interface.

Going to investigated your trick. Always nice to know other ways to come to a surtant point. Thanks.

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Shledge
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Shledge » Thu May 07, 2020 3:52 pm

If you already have something to convert MIDI clock into DIN SYNC, you need to make sure it is actually sending a signal on the DIN SYNC end. You can check this by looking at the LED of your kenton D-Sync.

Also looking at the adapter, you need a proper DIN SYNC cable to connect to it, not a MIDI cable. They are wired differently and can explain why it's not working at the moment. Some MIDI cables use all 5 pins to allow this, but honestly that's rather hit and miss and would rather skip that altogether.

Basically it needs to be like this:

MIDI interface MIDI OUT > MIDI cable > Kenton MIDI IN

Kenton SYNC OUT > DIN SYNC cable > ALM DIN SYNC adapter cable > Pamela's Workout.


I usually use my KSP or nerdseq to convert MIDI clock to DIN SYNC, but the benefits of these is that I don't need to use a DIN SYNC cable or so many steps to convert it, but rather a normal stereo 3.5mm cable with a mono splitter. If you have anything like a Keystep/BSP/KSP, you should try that instead.

Tim010
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Tim010 » Fri May 08, 2020 4:07 am

Shledge wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 3:52 pm
If you already have something to convert MIDI clock into DIN SYNC, you need to make sure it is actually sending a signal on the DIN SYNC end. You can check this by looking at the LED of your kenton D-Sync.

Also looking at the adapter, you need a proper DIN SYNC cable to connect to it, not a MIDI cable. They are wired differently and can explain why it's not working at the moment. Some MIDI cables use all 5 pins to allow this, but honestly that's rather hit and miss and would rather skip that altogether.

Basically it needs to be like this:

MIDI interface MIDI OUT > MIDI cable > Kenton MIDI IN

Kenton SYNC OUT > DIN SYNC cable > ALM DIN SYNC adapter cable > Pamela's Workout.


I usually use my KSP or nerdseq to convert MIDI clock to DIN SYNC, but the benefits of these is that I don't need to use a DIN SYNC cable or so many steps to convert it, but rather a normal stereo 3.5mm cable with a mono splitter. If you have anything like a Keystep/BSP/KSP, you should try that instead.
Hé, i have no extra’s possibilities, also not willing to buy them. Hope a new cable solves everything.

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Shledge
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Shledge » Fri May 08, 2020 6:17 am

The DIN SYNC cable should solve the issue, yes.

kwaidan
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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by kwaidan » Fri May 08, 2020 11:36 am

Both MIDI and SYNC cables often use a five pin DIN connector with the following pinouts: 3, 5, 2, 4, and 1. MIDI uses pins 2, 4, and 5. SYNC uses pins 1, 2, and 3. If you get a cable with all five connected, then it should work. In the past, I have purchased MIDI cables that do not have 1 and 3 connected, so these won’t work with SYNC. Lately, the cables I’ve been getting at Guitar Center work for both.

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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Tim010 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am

Hé Guys,

thanks for all the support. It was the cable. Doepfer DIN-SYNC cable did the job.

I run in to some others problems. I was multiplying the clock and reset like crazy to go to al my modules. Some of some of modules take a different approach to off when to rest. You can see it as a latency issue. By accident I stumbled on this video. I hope it can help if your having the same problem


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Re: ALM BUSY CIRCUITS ‘DIN-SYNC ADAPTOR CABLE’

Post by Shledge » Fri May 22, 2020 1:53 pm

An unfortunate side effect of eurorack not being a standardised format. :/

Main reason why I have attenuverters scattered around my system. Any modules I've owned that still had latency issues were sold off - digital ones of course. Developers have different ideas of what is "acceptable" and some decide something like 10ms+ latency is good enough... blergh!

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