ACL Sinfonion

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
loydb
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:45 pm
Location: Austin, USA

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by loydb » Sat May 09, 2020 8:58 am

Tomorrow Sounds Good wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 4:05 am
Mathias is joining Colin Benders Discord on Sunday at 4pm to chat all things Sinfonion. Should be ace
Was just going to post this. I'm really excited about it.
15U 168hp Zebrawood case Build Log [FINISHED]: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=134540
MFOS Ultimate Expand-o-tron Build Log: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/view ... 797#308797
MFOS Mini-Controller Build Log [FINISHED!]: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/view ... hp?t=42968

User avatar
Der Mann mit der Maschine
Common Wiggler
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Sat May 09, 2020 9:43 am

We actually will make a live stream with some patching, discussions, test, etc. Everyone is welcome!

User avatar
Tomorrow Sounds Good
Common Wiggler
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:24 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Tomorrow Sounds Good » Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:43 am
We actually will make a live stream with some patching, discussions, test, etc. Everyone is welcome!
Even better . Can’t wait !

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3696
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mdoudoroff » Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 am

Link to live stream info?

User avatar
mkasthe
Common Wiggler
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Sat May 09, 2020 10:39 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 am
Link to live stream info?
No info yet, but you can join Colin's Discord server here: http://discord.gg/modularmayhem.
He will send a ping with details before the event starts.

Btw it's 4pm CEST, so 10am ET tomorrow.
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
Instagram: The Analog Kid

User avatar
mkasthe
Common Wiggler
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Sat May 09, 2020 10:40 am

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:43 am
We actually will make a live stream with some patching, discussions, test, etc. Everyone is welcome!
It's getting more interesting by the hour, love it!
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
Instagram: The Analog Kid

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Sat May 09, 2020 6:47 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:49 am
Mostly I was trying one clock per bar, in 5/4, on the one.
I honestly would never have thought to clock it that slowly. The sequencer thinks in steps comprised of beats derived from a configured ratio of the clock. The channel 1 A/B functionality needs a reliable source of beats for its internal A/B behavior, and the arp has a clock modifier (which absolutely need fast, stable clocks.) A slow input clock is, IMHO, just asking for all sorts of unpredictable trouble. (For reference: I’m running 24 PPQN.)
Dark Barn wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:49 am
Does it start on the one no matter where you stop it, without any reset?
No, and I hope to never encounter a sequencer that does that.

Here is the process I assembled from a few things I read on the matter when getting started into modular not long ago (though it’s honestly much the same process as back in my MIDI hardware days of old, and for all the same reasons.)
1. Set up fast clocks for best synchronization and responsiveness to tempo changes.
2. Before starting the clock, use transport controls and send necessary resets to position sequencers where needed. (Don’t expect reliable reset and start in the same moment, at least not from all equipment. Hence this distinct step.)
3. Start the clock.
4. (Send periodic resets to anything that needs it.)
5. Stop the clock. (With some people automating parts of step 2 by sending resets to some or all equipment as part of stopping the clock here in step 5, depending on which clock source, transport controls, etc. they are using.)

For step 2 on the Sinfonion my “transport control” moment is to switch to a desired part, if not the current part, and/or to move to a desired step.

It feels a bit like you’re both setting yourself up for trouble with the slow clock and also expecting the Sinfonion to do something that only you know when needs to be done, and you need to be the one to tell it.

Granular
Common Wiggler
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Switzerland (Bern)

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Granular » Sun May 10, 2020 2:07 am

First, I don't own a Sinfonion (yet) I just watched the Video about the Arpeggiator Section- This may be a dumb Question but he says patching the multed clock to the Gate Input of a Synth Voice. This confuses me a bit. Does that mean patching the multed Clock to the CV In of the VCA, or how does this Patch would look like?

User avatar
mkasthe
Common Wiggler
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Sun May 10, 2020 9:36 am

Granular wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:07 am
First, I don't own a Sinfonion (yet) I just watched the Video about the Arpeggiator Section- This may be a dumb Question but he says patching the multed clock to the Gate Input of a Synth Voice. This confuses me a bit. Does that mean patching the multed Clock to the CV In of the VCA, or how does this Patch would look like?
You would patch in the gate of the envelope controlling the VCA and / or the gate of the envelope controlling the VCF
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
Instagram: The Analog Kid

User avatar
Dark Barn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Dark Barn » Sun May 10, 2020 10:55 am

mvdirty wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:47 pm
Here is the process I assembled from a few things I read on the matter when getting started into modular not long ago (though it’s honestly much the same process as back in my MIDI hardware days of old, and for all the same reasons.)
1. Set up fast clocks for best synchronization and responsiveness to tempo changes.
2. Before starting the clock, use transport controls and send necessary resets to position sequencers where needed. (Don’t expect reliable reset and start in the same moment, at least not from all equipment. Hence this distinct step.)
3. Start the clock.
4. (Send periodic resets to anything that needs it.)
5. Stop the clock. (With some people automating parts of step 2 by sending resets to some or all equipment as part of stopping the clock here in step 5, depending on which clock source, transport controls, etc. they are using.)

.....

It feels a bit like you’re both setting yourself up for trouble with the slow clock and also expecting the Sinfonion to do something that only you know when needs to be done, and you need to be the one to tell it.
I think your higher resolution clock is making it harder for you to discern that the Sinfonion advances to the next step (after being fully reset) on the first clock it receives. At 24ppqn this would be after your last 16th note fires but before the downbeat of the next bar. Which might be fine for your workflow. Try your own method but at a super slow tempo, at 24ppqn you might have to dial it down to 10bpm to see what I’m saying but a reset (or manual transport) between stop and start states isn’t sufficient to get the Sinfonion in phase, you actually do NEED the ‘reliable reset and start in the same moment’ to get the Sinfonion in phase with other modules that start on the one. Dividing your clocks to a resolution where this is imperceptible is a good workaround though. I personally think this should be addressed in an update because as you say, sending a reliable reset and start in the same moment is often an area where things can fail and behave erratically.
I’ve been searchin’ for the dolphins in the sea

The Weak in Review - podcast in ((poetic_stere0)) Spotify YouTube

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Sun May 10, 2020 9:27 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:55 am
I think your higher resolution clock is making it harder for you to discern that the Sinfonion advances to the next step (after being fully reset) on the first clock it receives.
Good catch. I put things up on the scope just now and was able to confirm your suspicion. From now on I’ll run a part reset in at start, as that is locking things in nicely at the various BPM/clock combos I’ve tried thus far. Shame, as you noted, to tie up an input for it, though.
Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:55 am
you actually do NEED the ‘reliable reset and start in the same moment’ to get the Sinfonion in phase with other modules that start on the one. Dividing your clocks to a resolution where this is imperceptible is a good workaround though. I personally think this should be addressed in an update because as you say, sending a reliable reset and start in the same moment is often an area where things can fail and behave erratically.
Luckily for both of us, Mathias stated on stream today that the Sinfonion already implements logic to detect these moments of reset and clock received close together. I was able to weird it out at 48 PPQN but will continue experiments at 24 and almost surely also at 16.
Last edited by mvdirty on Sun May 10, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Sun May 10, 2020 9:27 pm

(Stray post and for some reason I’m not spotting an ability to delete, at least not on this device.)

User avatar
Dark Barn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Dark Barn » Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Makes me wonder if there is a small simple module that can delay clocks by one pulse.
I’ve been searchin’ for the dolphins in the sea

The Weak in Review - podcast in ((poetic_stere0)) Spotify YouTube

User avatar
mkasthe
Common Wiggler
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Sun May 10, 2020 11:10 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 pm
Makes me wonder if there is a small simple module that can delay clocks by one pulse.
Maybe the Malekko Quad Gate Delay?
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
Instagram: The Analog Kid

obust
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:38 am

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by obust » Mon May 11, 2020 9:31 am

Mathias gave a Sinfonion "As Me Anything" stream with Colin Benders

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon May 11, 2020 10:09 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 pm
Makes me wonder if there is a small simple module that can delay clocks by one pulse.
Or perhaps drop the first trigger/gate received after it has somehow been reset. A reset would still therefore be needed at least somewhere, but outside of the Sinfonion’s precious inputs, and dropping rather than delaying would avoid potential artifacts if the tempo were to change, if swing were introduced, etc.

Barring something more specific to the task, perhaps a logic module could be bent into the right shape for this?

I personally am only likely to pursue the idea once I run out of Sinfonion inputs, but it is interesting nonetheless.

User avatar
Der Mann mit der Maschine
Common Wiggler
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am

mvdirty wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:09 am
Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 pm
Makes me wonder if there is a small simple module that can delay clocks by one pulse.
Or perhaps drop the first trigger/gate received after it has somehow been reset. A reset would still therefore be needed at least somewhere, but outside of the Sinfonion’s precious inputs, and dropping rather than delaying would avoid potential artifacts if the tempo were to change, if swing were introduced, etc.

Barring something more specific to the task, perhaps a logic module could be bent into the right shape for this?

I personally am only likely to pursue the idea once I run out of Sinfonion inputs, but it is interesting nonetheless.
Maybe this helps: If you send a reset signal so the Sinfonion (via IN 1/2) and nearly at the same time a clock signal (max 12 ms after the reset), that clock signal is ignored. That ensures that a reset always sets the sequence to the first beat on the first step. The next clock then advanced it to the next beat.

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon May 11, 2020 11:00 am

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am
Maybe this helps: If you send a reset signal so the Sinfonion (via IN 1/2) and nearly at the same time a clock signal (max 12 ms after the reset), that clock signal is ignored. That ensures that a reset always sets the sequence to the first beat on the first step. The next clock then advanced it to the next beat.
Thanks Mathias. Up-thread a bit (though easily missed given the number of recent replies) I mentioned starting to do just that, using part reset, and it is working nicely so far.

I suspect we’re now more just musing on fun ways one could potentially free up an input if needed. :)

User avatar
Der Mann mit der Maschine
Common Wiggler
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Mon May 11, 2020 11:17 am

mvdirty wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:00 am
Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am
Maybe this helps: If you send a reset signal so the Sinfonion (via IN 1/2) and nearly at the same time a clock signal (max 12 ms after the reset), that clock signal is ignored. That ensures that a reset always sets the sequence to the first beat on the first step. The next clock then advanced it to the next beat.
Thanks Mathias. Up-thread a bit (though easily missed given the number of recent replies) I mentioned starting to do just that, using part reset, and it is working nicely so far.

I suspect we’re now more just musing on fun ways one could potentially free up an input if needed. :)
Ah. Nice. Sorry for not digging into the details of this long thread 8-) And thanks of course for spending so much valuable time with the Sinfonion :mrgreen:

User avatar
Dark Barn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Dark Barn » Mon May 11, 2020 11:43 am

I’m also otherwise very pleased with the Sinfonion, and my interest here is saving an input on it for other uses, as well as saving one of the outputs on Pam’s New Workout as well. This is the only piece of gear I own that uses this logic to get it to play the first step. On the upside it sounds like this consideration was made to allow tighter timing when resets are applied in the middle of a sequence. I would just offer up that it might be possible to achieve both conditions of starting on the one without a synchronous reset and ensuring that resets that occur when the sequencer is running are handled this way. At either rate my Sinfonion isn’t going anywhere, I do love it.
I’ve been searchin’ for the dolphins in the sea

The Weak in Review - podcast in ((poetic_stere0)) Spotify YouTube

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon May 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:17 am
Ah. Nice. Sorry for not digging into the details of this long thread 8-) And thanks of course for spending so much valuable time with the Sinfonion :mrgreen:
No worries at all, Mathias. You’ve done PLENTY. This thread will get along fine while you work on shipping the DROID. ;)

User avatar
Mr. Roboto
Common Wiggler
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:37 am
Location: Germany

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Mr. Roboto » Mon May 11, 2020 4:53 pm

So there is no way to update the firmware on our own? We habe to send it back to our dealers? Seriously?
This can become very costly if we would have to pay for the shipping.

Anybody here who has already got a reply from his dealer?
Der Sägezahn, der Sägezahn, der hat's mir angetan.

Less talk, more action!

gran_syth
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:57 am

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by gran_syth » Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 pm

Mr. Roboto wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:53 pm
So there is no way to update the firmware on our own? We habe to send it back to our dealers? Seriously?
This can become very costly if we would have to pay for the shipping.

Anybody here who has already got a reply from his dealer?
Really? see page 78 of the manual https://imagescdn.juno.co.uk/manual/727745-01U.pdf

beepnsleep
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by beepnsleep » Mon May 11, 2020 8:15 pm

my sinfonion arrived today! I found myself using a lot less modules in patches compared to using my Harmonaig and trying to work out different parts. I should be able to handle all quantisation with just the sinfonion :sb:

User avatar
mvdirty
Common Wiggler
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon May 11, 2020 10:11 pm

gran_syth wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 pm
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:53 pm
So there is no way to update the firmware on our own? We habe to send it back to our dealers? Seriously?
This can become very costly if we would have to pay for the shipping.

Anybody here who has already got a reply from his dealer?
Really? see page 78 of the manual https://imagescdn.juno.co.uk/manual/727745-01U.pdf
See page 78 of the current manual and you’ll note the need to purchase a dongle that I, for one, have never seen http://www.audiophilecircuitsleague.com ... pdf#page78

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”