Never meet your heroes

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

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(((EMP)))
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by (((EMP))) » Thu May 21, 2020 2:33 pm

peteone wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm probably going to get a lot of "you should have given it more time" comments but . for me it was Digitakt, just couldn't deal with menu diving.
Not just you. Not a fan of the Elektron way of doing things at all. I wanted to love every Elektron box I ever bought, but ended up selling every one. Even after re-buying a few and giving them a seconded go. Different strokes.

But in general I think there’s quite a few pieces of gear that endlessly get hyped in internet echo chambers, then people buy them and find out that A) it doesn’t fit your actual needs, or B) just doesn’t sound as good as the price would imply. A perfect example is the Sequentix Cirklon. It often gets the “best sequencer” label and obviously the prices are sky high. But you see people buy them then sell quickly. It’s an amazing piece of gear (I actual own one, and it fits my style perfectly), but it is definitely not for everybody. You see people saying stuff like “does it do P-Locks”, etc... But instead of being honest with themselves, some people are looking for trophies and magic bullets.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by MindMachine » Sat May 23, 2020 12:14 am

Maths... just kidding.
Bath House wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:34 pm
EMS Synthi. Uninteresting, uninspiring, felt like a homemade kit that was going to fall apart under even gentle use, sounded about as good as a monotron or volca. For the life of me I will never underhand the hype and the status and can only conclude that it’s the rest of mass psychosis.
Overhyped for whatever reasons, but certainly a 'somewhat' versatile machine. If it was your only synth you would be able to make a great set of tunes. I've heard your music. Built better than you recall.
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Samwise
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by Samwise » Sat May 23, 2020 1:27 am

My first synth ever was an Akai Miniak, because I was a dumb kid who just graduated high school and basically just wanted a shiny toy. I saw a few demos showing off some of the factory presets and multis and thought it sounded great. Unfortunately, when I got it, it was a different story. Many of the presets are just too weird to use in any normal context, it sounds like a mediocre ROMpler at best, and every time I try to program it I start to want to punch holes in the wall. I still have it nine years later just because I can't imagine getting back more than a quarter of what I paid for it and the multi feature is at least somewhat useful.

My latest acquisition was a Vox Jaguar, which I spent a fair amount of time repairing. It certainly sounds pretty great, but there are a number of little quirks that grate on me (mainly to do with the fact that each generator only has four waveform outputs), and the sound palette is decidedly limited. I don't hate it, but I wish they would have put a little more care and effort when designing it because it definitely feels like it was built to as low of a price point as they could get it.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by lisa » Sat May 23, 2020 2:03 am

Mutable Instruments Clouds. Ok as an oscillator, boring as the end of chain effect most folks use it for. As I’ve said before, it just made my distinct patches muddy and dull.

I never tried it on drums, though. It might do good things to drums?
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by ZargZorg » Sat May 23, 2020 4:09 am

It's not that I'm disappointed, but the modular world isn't that compatible with my workflow so far and I kinda regret not going the polysynths + pedals sooner. I enjoy some stuff, but it leads to certain genre specific habits that I don't really enjoy.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by KSS » Sat May 23, 2020 4:38 am

ZargZorg wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:09 am
but it leads to certain genre specific habits that I don't really enjoy.
Nothng wrong with knowing your own preferences.

Hoping you won't mind sharing what you're seeing as genre specific habits?
There might be alternatives, and maybe we'd benefit from having them pointed out.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by Technologear? » Sat May 23, 2020 7:24 am

(((EMP))) wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:33 pm
peteone wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm probably going to get a lot of "you should have given it more time" comments but . for me it was Digitakt, just couldn't deal with menu diving.
Not just you. Not a fan of the Elektron way of doing things at all. I wanted to love every Elektron box I ever bought, but ended up selling every one. Even after re-buying a few and giving them a seconded go. Different strokes.
Helps me to hear this. I'm struggling with how the DT seems to influence what I program on it. I love it's external sequencing, interface, sampling process, but... every track I've made with it I don't like. I write crappy 00s glitchtronica rather than the blasting techno I have in my mind when I start with the pure sample.
I'm not ready to accept that the relationship between user and device might not be healthy for my DT though. All those comments about how easy it should be to create what you want with it are still influencing me!

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by Jaypee » Sat May 23, 2020 2:07 pm

ZargZorg wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:09 am
It's not that I'm disappointed, but the modular world isn't that compatible with my workflow so far and I kinda regret not going the polysynths + pedals sooner. I enjoy some stuff, but it leads to certain genre specific habits that I don't really enjoy.
This should deserve a thread. I feel you. A poly is so instant grateful compared to modular.
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by echofields » Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 pm

I spent 10 years lusting after an MS20, finally bought an MS20 Mini and the only part I like is the filter... Was really sad that I didn't gel with it :(

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by slumberjack » Sun May 24, 2020 5:19 pm

echofields wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 pm
I spent 10 years lusting after an MS20, finally bought an MS20 Mini and the only part I like is the filter... Was really sad that I didn't gel with it :(
Lucky you that there are plenty of MS20 filters around in Eurorack. :mrgreen:
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by anselmi » Mon May 25, 2020 6:52 am

echofields wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 pm
I spent 10 years lusting after an MS20, finally bought an MS20 Mini and the only part I like is the filter... Was really sad that I didn't gel with it :(
I feel you ... in the 90's I wanted one ... a few years later I tried one and it seemed really odd, in a bad way ... the envelopes, the oscillators ... and yes, the filter was the only part I like
To make things worse, there was a MonoPoly by his side and man, this synth sounded wonderful ...

Anyway, after a few years, an MS20 Mini came to my university work and I finally made my peace with it ... it's still a weird synthesizer but I found some things that it does very well

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by rplktr » Mon May 25, 2020 7:23 am

oscilloscope wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:39 am
Image
Ha, this picture is why I kept my PGH Analog Replicator. I have a real love/hate relationship with it. I got it because the BBD delay was used in the original Moog Mother-32 teaser videos which were what pushed me into eurorack in the first place.

I adore the Analog Replicator's mellow sound, I obviously like the name and the build. It gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing it's all analog. I even like the pitch shift effect on time adjustments, it's fun, often surprising, can be made musical. But it's no Moogerfooger Analog Delay:

- feedback catches quite a lot of hum
- there's a high-pitched BBD overload sound on higher time settings; you can EQ it out but it's annoying
- BBD aggressively low-passes the signal even in 4k short mode, you can't do razor sharp delays with it
- it's tricky to get usable feedback amount out of it, even though the knob is huge. It's very easy to overload it (so the sound drowns in feedback) and just a hair length less on the knob gives no discernible feedback at all
- bypass boosts the dry signal level so it's useless for most use cases
- spillover is *not* the same as disconnecting the input cable, it just lets a single feedback pass through. This means it's also pretty useless, gets silent within a second tops

As it stands, unless you're really into analog signal paths in hardware, get something else. It's very lo-fi. I'm not parting with mine since I learned to use it effectively. But it's one of the very few module purchases I regret. PGH doesn't make it anymore but it sounds like its successor, the Lifeforms Analog Delay, is a very similar beast.
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by DjSycamore » Mon May 25, 2020 2:02 pm

A lot of people disappointed in the classics? Not me, growing up on 80’s synth pop and then coming to age in 90’s rave culture, every vintage I pick up (106, 101, monopoly, Polysix, Drumtraks so far) brings a piece of that to my pallet and I LOVE it! Not as much a big fan of newer tho. Also a lot of not liking OT?
Man, this machine rocked my world and still does everything I ask of it. I preordered it back in the day and it’s still the heart of my studio. It’s been sent for repairs 3 times due to my habit of smashing in the buttons.

Biggest let downs for me were the Quasimidi Ravolution and the A4.
I was doing a lot of live PA back in the day and the quasimidi looked like a dream. I finally saved up and got one and it sounded like turds, I still really like the idea of the fill buttons on it though.
The A4 was my first Analog synth. All the hype, and I preordered that one too and was completely underwhelmed by the sound and the interface was super uninspiring to me.
I guess when I got a monomachine it was kind of the same story.
Turns out I probably don’t like elektron interfaces.... I learned this after going through all their classics and even 2 machinedrums. OT being the exception, it’s convoluted but it kind of has to be with everything it does. I still have my RYTM, it’s cool

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by ZargZorg » Mon May 25, 2020 2:05 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:38 am
ZargZorg wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:09 am
but it leads to certain genre specific habits that I don't really enjoy.
Nothng wrong with knowing your own preferences.

Hoping you won't mind sharing what you're seeing as genre specific habits?
There might be alternatives, and maybe we'd benefit from having them pointed out.
For me it's honestly the non immediate nature of patching, combined with (and this is my major gripe) the lack of ability to change from vastly different sonic palettes within seconds without having a monster modular or a matrix with presets, both of which take a lot of time to set up and taking me back to the first point. Modular only sets (as far as the sound originator), tend to fall into to a certain evolutive/linear timeline and atm I'm really far from that aesthetic.

I use it a lot to process sounds that I build in the daw, be it entire songs running through it or samples or percussion and I use it to feedback these things against each other a lot but the more typical drone modular or sequencer/arp modular is really not my thing.

Also, I tend to leave my modular patched the same way for a long time whenever I find something I like and just run different sounds through it and record live.

It's really dependent on workflow and I feel that sometimes people get stuck with it due to the beautiful sounds it can produce but if it's harming your creativity or workflow, just change it. Sometimes feel is more important than a 600euros oscillator droning for 30min. Just my 2cents on it.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by KSS » Mon May 25, 2020 8:55 pm

Thanks ZorgZorg.

Really good points.

Fortunately all but the first are more about the user than the system. There''s no getting around the need to first patch something!

Couldn't agree more about how derivative, 'evolving linear' most modular performances seem to be.

And I truly wish transposing of sequences becomes a *much* bigger thing. F'n boring samey sequences need to die. :twisted:

All of your points add up to why the 2600 -and 2500, but it still has to be 'patched' first!- are so revered. Both are easily used in quick changing, non linear ways.

Again, REALLY good points. Glad I asked. Thankful you answered.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by smithjohn » Tue May 26, 2020 12:41 am

Don't know why transposing sequencers isn't a big thing. The 'musical' transposing you get with an Ornament & Crime just makes stuff sound like a musical piece instead of a repetitious sequencer jam :guinness:

I was quite underwhelmed on the Roland V-Synth XT as a VA, it just often sounded weak to me. Part of me wishes I hadn't sold it, since it could apply audio rate FM to samples and seemed to do interesting digital stuff :waah:

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minimalist
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by minimalist » Tue May 26, 2020 10:28 am

Not sure if I consider it a hero but the Lyra 8 definitely had some hype around it. Still seems to from the growing thread.

I loved it for a few weeks and then that was it. I felt it had given everything it was ever going to give and it had to go. Sometimes being very good within a narrow range is good but I just found it boring quite quickly. It was beautifully made though.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by gminorcoles » Tue May 26, 2020 4:56 pm

I feel lucky reading this. I have turned around a lot of gear the last year and a half since I got serious about playing keyboard. But nothing heroic. My Integra, Kronos and matrix brute are my biggest single purchases and I still have them. They were selected for overall utility, and they have delivered. I did send a kurzweil pc4 back but not because it was bad, I really liked it, but because the Kronos does the mega rompler thing very well. So I got the MB, which fills a before unclaimed niche.

It was entertaining to read about the synthi, and others. I look forward to more stories.

I have better stories about people I have met or interacted with who fell short but I shouldn't share them.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by ObsoleteModular » Tue May 26, 2020 6:55 pm

Here's a controversial one as they've sold absolute bucket loads; Strymon Big Sky.

Terrible UI
None of the models sounded natural
All the models that are supposed to sound unnatural got pretty samey pretty quick

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by ObsoleteModular » Tue May 26, 2020 6:56 pm

And may I just note my utter loathing of the Roland TR707. I'm cheating though because it was never a hero. I've always hated it.

Classic my arse.

606, 808, 909, yes. 707 no.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by Licudi » Wed May 27, 2020 3:17 am

Agree about Big Sky but that's more of a general objection to shimmer. Most often used like a skim of plaster hiding bad building work.

Disagree about the TR707. Found its onboard limitations and simplicity combined with the huge number of separate outputs quite useful. Mind you, mine cost £30.00 ... Probably get more for its packaging now.

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by KSS » Wed May 27, 2020 3:23 am

ObsoleteModular wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:56 pm
606, 808, 909, yes. 707 no.
Well, what do you expect? Even Roland knew it. That's why they named it LOL.
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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by ObsoleteModular » Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 am

Licudi wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:17 am
Agree about Big Sky but that's more of a general objection to shimmer. Most often used like a skim of plaster hiding bad building work.

Disagree about the TR707. Found its onboard limitations and simplicity combined with the huge number of separate outputs quite useful. Mind you, mine cost £30.00 ... Probably get more for its packaging now.
I was being brutal. It's a good drum machine (especially at £30!) but I just don't think it deserves the same rep as its siblings

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Re: Never meet your heroes

Post by Hutenberger » Thu May 28, 2020 1:12 pm

Had this kind of experience with a Jomox T-Resonator MKII. I fell in love with the internal feedback overdrive on youtube videos, made a ton of samples for my tracks in one week, never touched it again.
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