Averager (averaging mixer)

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Metacohl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 9:31 pm

Averager (averaging mixer)

Post by Metacohl » Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 am

I'd like to average CV and audio sources; what are the options for this in Eurorack?

The three I'm aware of are
MI Links
2hp Unity
Joranalogue Add2 (jumper setting)

Are any of these using fixed gain ratios vs an averaging circuit?

What I've read about the Links makes me believe it is using a fixed gain ratio of 1/3 instead of an averaging circuit. IE when two inputs are plugged in they are each reduced by 1/3 rather than 1/2.

Both the 2hp and Joranalogue specifically mention CV for unity mode and audio for averaging mode; can they only be used this way? Can CV be used with averaging mode?

Thanks for the help

flashheart
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Posts: 1695
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:58 am

Re: Averager (averaging mixer)

Post by flashheart » Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm

CV can certainly be used with averaging mode, I guess the reason we don't is that CV is more for a specific use, ie. you know how much you want to add, and you'll usually want to add or subtract from that. In all 3 cases 'average' is achieved by reducing the gain by the number of inputs. In the case of Links the gain is reduced by 2/3 not a 1/3, don't know re the others.
Not sure there is such a thing as a true averaging circuit, to get the average you need to know how many things you're adding together :), so if you only plug 2 sources in... I guess there might be a way using switching sockets :hmm:
I'm not buying a maths though, not my idea of fun...

Metacohl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Averager (averaging mixer)

Post by Metacohl » Sat May 23, 2020 2:26 pm

flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
CV can certainly be used with averaging mode
Is that speaking generally or is that confirmed with the 2hp and Joranalogue units? If the averaging mode is ac-coupled then I believe it wouldn't work with DC signals.
flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
In the case of Links the gain is reduced by 2/3 not a 1/3, don't know re the others.
Right, my impression was that *each input* was reduced by 1/3 which is 2/3 reduction on the output signal for 2 inputs.
flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
Not sure there is such a thing as a true averaging circuit, to get the average you need to know how many things you're adding together :), so if you only plug 2 sources in... I guess there might be a way using switching sockets :hmm:
My understanding is that a true averaging circuit The type of averager I'm looking for is independent of the number of inputs currently connected.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=203344&p=2860999&h ... e#p2860999

flashheart
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1695
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:58 am

Re: Averager (averaging mixer)

Post by flashheart » Sat May 23, 2020 3:12 pm

Metacohl wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:26 pm
flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
CV can certainly be used with averaging mode
Is that speaking generally or is that confirmed with the 2hp and Joranalogue units? If the averaging mode is ac-coupled then I believe it wouldn't work with DC signals.
TBH I don't know, I'd be surprised if they were, there's normally indication of AC/DC coupling - I'd expect that change to be mentioned.
Metacohl wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:26 pm
flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
In the case of Links the gain is reduced by 2/3 not a 1/3, don't know re the others.
Right, my impression was that *each input* was reduced by 1/3 which is 2/3 reduction on the output signal for 2 inputs.
I think we're agreeing here :) it's your wording here that is misleading. With 2 inputs the output will be 2/3 (ie. 1/3 reduction) of what it should have been. According to the Links manual the *mixer* has a gain of 1/3.
Metacohl wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:26 pm
flashheart wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm
Not sure there is such a thing as a true averaging circuit, to get the average you need to know how many things you're adding together :), so if you only plug 2 sources in... I guess there might be a way using switching sockets :hmm:
My understanding is that a true averaging circuit is independent of the number of inputs currently connected.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=203344&p=2860999&h ... e#p2860999
Indeed it is, I was just wondering how you achieve that electronically...
I'm not buying a maths though, not my idea of fun...

Metacohl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Averager (averaging mixer)

Post by Metacohl » Sat May 23, 2020 8:25 pm

Yes, we are in agreement :) funny how that can be so difficult to convey online sometimes!

I emailed Joranalogue about the Add2; their response was that both modes can process cv and audio, but that it is indeed a fixed reduction (1/3, -10db)

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