AD, AR or ADSR ?

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Putte
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Putte » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:22 pm

How did I miss that one? Just bought two Oddyseys two weeks ago.

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:21 pm

ADR ... ADSR ... AR ... MRPIGS ... MRNOTPIGS ... OSAR! ... LIB!

(heheh) ...

Stupid shit humor aside, I've been digging through the internals of the Ornament and Crime Euro module lately. It has this one program that allows the creation of custom envelopes ("Piques" or "Piqued" or some godammed thing). There are all of these options for each envelope, among them are selections between the number of stages (AR ... ADR ... ADSR ... YOMAMMA ... everwhut). You can scroll through those types on the fly while the envelope is being triggered. It's amazing at how the different types can FSU or MSO (mello shit out).

So yea ... I'm in on the ADR .. ADSR .. WTFBITCH .. 90210 .. NCISLA .. train right now as well. Fun stuff!

Seriously ... one of you repaneling wizzos around hyuh needs to take on shoving A PAIR of the O_C modules in a *1sp x 5U panel. While you're down there, add in a couple of improvements (USB port with front access for one).

K wait ... two in a 1sp ... bad idea ... aw-ight, howz abowt two in a 2sp 5U panel then? I mean seriously here, one of those things simply ain't enough. It would be different if it ran "app per channel" ... so for example you could have a feature-fat envelope gen on one channel, and let's say a quantizer on another channel, plus perhaps a sequencer ("Sequins" ... pfft ... how quaint) on the third channel, and some type of LFO/looping EG/modulator/thingage on channel four.

Sweet, right? NO SOUP FOR YOU, HONKY LIPS!!!! Nerp, 'fraid it can only do one trick at a time on all four channels at once. Which means if you want more than one function simultaneously, more than one O_C is required. So a pair of them in one panel would be the dog's balls (and probably COST a nut or two as well!).

Ok, done. Just spouting here.





*Oh and hey .. see what I did there? "1sp x 5U panel". U = vertical pitch. SP = horizontal pitch. GIT IT RITE DAMMIT!!!!!!
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Putte » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:06 am

Well, the Corsynth C111 definitely got my attention now. Or, I´ve actually decided to get one. So, thanks for the info, MrNezumi.
Last edited by Putte on Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by josaka » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:10 am

several things.. is it on the filter or VCA ? on the filter the precision of ADSR is very useful..control front/back of the sound plus length of the note the d conrols the lenth of the hit section r the fade S sustain/fade of the hit.. not useful if you are not bothered about the nuances of sound whatever length it is.. the cat synth has an AR and an ADSR its a good system.. if you want pluck type stuff ADSR key as well .. The STG labs EG is tough to better

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by hamildad » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:01 am

josaka wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:10 am
several things.. is it on the filter or VCA ? on the filter the precision of ADSR is very useful..control front/back of the sound plus length of the note the d conrols the lenth of the hit section r the fade S sustain/fade of the hit.. not useful if you are not bothered about the nuances of sound whatever length it is.. the cat synth has an AR and an ADSR its a good system.. if you want pluck type stuff ADSR key as well .. The STG labs EG is tough to better
2600 has AR & ADSR, and its fun times getting a hard pluck with ADSR and mixing that EG voltage with a longer AR, to give nice berlin school attacks to your sequences..

that tip comes from S&TG and I second that the STG EG is great and even better with the sidecar.
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by KSS » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:55 pm

Phil Cirocco -and others, like Tim Smith- shared that tip well before S&TG. Which takes nothing from S&TG, who is a wealth of quality information.
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by kindredlost » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:49 pm

The Octal VCA plus the Expander AD/AR from Synthetic Sound Labs is 3U and gives you the option of having a choice of either AR or AD as well as using the remaining channels left over (if you don't use all eight) for just simple VCA use.
Downside is it's just EG drven VCA's so not useable to a filter or oscillator etc..

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by josaka » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:30 pm

The new MFB Synth Pro ADSR/AR section..
(just bought one ! :) )
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by J3RK » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:43 pm

I haven’t followed this whole thread, just caught it while I’m out on the deck with a whiskey and cigar :hihi:

There are nuances to each of these. Everyone knows the ADSR, so I’m just going to mention some things about AD vs AR.

The AD recognizes a trigger. It could be a gate, but it will treat it like a trigger anyway. Once it’s triggered it rises then falls before it can be triggered again. This can be useful in cases where you want to pluck, ring, etc. a filter or low pass gate. The values you select are precisely what the envelope will do. However, most ADs won’t retrigger mid-envelope. (so not good for keyboard use) The plus side is they have the proverbial snap to them, and can be as quick as a trigger.

The AR starts at trigger high, but has a time based effect. If it’s not high long enough, it will not reach the full peak before decay. It works like a slew or filter. That can also be handy. You can use it to slew or filter. Plus, it can be triggered mid-cycle which is nice in the keys context. You can also hold the gate longer for more of an effect. It’s not great for plucked sounds though, since it tends to filter out tiny triggers.

The funny thing is that many AD/ARs can be both with a switch that shorts one capacitor on the gate input.

Just my thoughts on the simpler EGs.

ADSRs have a full range of functionality of their own that could fill another post. :lol:
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:17 pm

There are modules which offer a number of envelope archetypes, as well as different "curves". I've been trying different ones myself lately. The module I'm using makes that task much simpler (a Euro thing).
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Re:

Post by 1960strat » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:19 pm

I love my Quadras (I have 4) in Euro, would def be cool to see that functionality in 5u
JohnLRice wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:35 pm
Thanks for the Abul Mogard link, nice stuff I hadn't heard before! :party:

If you are going to be playing sustained things like the Mogard, especially if you are doing it from a keyboard, you'll mostly want ADSR's. I think ADSRs are more versatile because you can do AD/AR with them if you want, the only downside I can see is that an ADSR takes up almost twice as much space because it has twice and many knobs.

There are envelope generators that are ASR - Attack Sustain Release (not to be confused with the other ASR - Analog Shift Register) and one of those night suit you well too although an ADSR would still be better I think.

I'm not sure if there is one in MU but Intellijel makes a really nice quad EG that can do AD, ASR and looping/LFO called the Quadra. Some one should make a 5U version:

4 x function generators
Selectable mode:
* 1. ad (attack – decay)
* 2. ahr (attack – hold(sustain) – release)
* 3. cycle (ad envelope loops)
linear or exponential curve

Image

Not to dwell on Eurorack but here's a good discussion on the subject that is relevant except the modules discussed aren't 5U of course:
viewtopic.php?p=1347997

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by KSS » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:51 pm

^ That's comng in Spring. Depending on Global issues between now and then.
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Re: Re:

Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:25 am

1960strat wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:19 pm
I love my Quadras (I have 4) in Euro, would def be cool to see that functionality in 5u
Hi 1960strat , the Corsynth C111 Multimode Contour generator is very similar to the Quadra. It has 4 AD/ASR envelopes with looping function. Also the envelopes can be combined in pairs to create more complex envelopes. The only feature missing from the Quadra is the EXP and Linear mode.

You can fin more info about the module here : https://corsynth.com/home/modules/c111

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Re: Re:

Post by 1960strat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:11 am

Thalassa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:25 am
1960strat wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:19 pm
I love my Quadras (I have 4) in Euro, would def be cool to see that functionality in 5u
Hi 1960strat , the Corsynth C111 Multimode Contour generator is very similar to the Quadra. It has 4 AD/ASR envelopes with looping function. Also the envelopes can be combined in pairs to create more complex envelopes. The only feature missing from the Quadra is the EXP and Linear mode.

You can fin more info about the module here : https://corsynth.com/home/modules/c111

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Excellent! Thank you so much. I ordered one from the site

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:19 am

Thank you :)

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Re: Re:

Post by KSS » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:08 am

Thalassa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:25 am
Also the envelopes can be combined in pairs to create more complex envelopes. The only feature missing from the Quadra is the EXP and Linear mode.
C111 is a great module! Those two central knobs. :tu:

Wouldn't it be possible to add PCB hdr for selecting LIN/EXP? Could then choose whether LEDs or shape were more important.
Just a thought, the module is already really good.
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by josaka » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:17 am

there have been a few of these multi AD/AR in 5u .. two hexinverter ports.. one from Analog Craftsmen and one from lower west side.. Dove Audio had/has some.. and corsynth of course :)
http://www.hexinverter.net/the-postman
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Putte » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:25 am

A Corsynth Multimode Contour Generator is now on its way. Thanks again, MrNezumi, for mentioning its existence. This machine will solve the huge problem of only having a few émpty spaces left, and a seemingly endless need for EG:s

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Re: Re:

Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am

KSS wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:08 am
Wouldn't it be possible to add PCB hdr for selecting LIN/EXP? Could then choose whether LEDs or shape were more important.
Just a thought, the module is already really good.
No, it's not possible. I will need to redesigning the PCB and also try to find space in the front panel :hmm: :hmm: . When I was designing this module I didn't feel the need to add the lin mode because this feature was already implemented in the C106.

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by josaka » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:32 am

when is someone going to do one of these again !

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_ueg3.html
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by KSS » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:00 am

@josaka
The MFOS multi-segment EG is similar. A DIY build of that one is a worthwhile thing to do!
I have a derivative module of the MFOS MSEG in another format which greatly expands upon it and could be ported to MU.
It also expands on the UEG, and is analog rather than digital in its timing and segment generation. I'll share more about it after Oct 31.

Edit: Ray did a really nice job on this module. The only really inherent limitation is it being 7 stages instead of the UEG's 8. But if you use the 4051's INH pin you can get the 8th stage back. Ray used the 0 output as a 'ready' stage, like moog did with the 9th stage of the 960.
If someone goes DIY with this and wants help with how to do that, let me know.
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Putte » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 am

Got my C111 a while ago, and It´s one of the best purchases I´ve made for my modular. I had six empty spaces and felt I would need three ADSR:s. Instead I´ve now got four left, and a bunch of AR/ASR. The C111 takes care of most of the need for envelope generators in my sequences, leaving many ADSR:s to lead sounds and such.
C111, what a machine!

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Re: Re:

Post by cubis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:51 pm

Thalassa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am
KSS wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:08 am
Wouldn't it be possible to add PCB hdr for selecting LIN/EXP? Could then choose whether LEDs or shape were more important.
Just a thought, the module is already really good.
No, it's not possible. I will need to redesigning the PCB and also try to find space in the front panel :hmm: :hmm: . When I was designing this module I didn't feel the need to add the lin mode because this feature was already implemented in the C106.
Maybe a topic for another time, but is there a distinct difference between a linear envelope through an exponential vca vs an exponential envelope through a linear vca?

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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by Sugarfree » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:56 pm

Mathematically it's the same. Practically, every analog module has a slightly different response curve.
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Re: AD, AR or ADSR ?

Post by boothnavy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:48 pm

We also now have a four channel, four mode modulation source:

AD, repeat (LFO), gated repeat, AHD

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