No input mixing

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Unborn Gore
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No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:37 pm

Just getting into this. I just ordered a used Mackie 1202 VLZ3 for this purpose, and I was wondering if any of you have any tips for successful feedback mixing.

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Kent
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Kent » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:38 pm

Somewhere in the forum, there has been a very robust discussion of this. It started several years ago, so has a bunch of info ready for you.

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Unborn Gore
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:55 pm

I did a search first, and didn’t see it. I’ll look again.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:02 pm

Kent wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:38 pm
Somewhere in the forum, there has been a very robust discussion of this. It started several years ago, so has a bunch of info ready for you.
The search function has not been helpful in this case. If you can remember anything about the link, the title, etc., it would be highly appreciated.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by sexcomputer » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:35 pm

i probably said this in the other thread, but listen to Toshimaru Nakamura. He has serious control over his mixer.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by bphenix » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:46 pm

I tend to do most my searching now via google search given how search currently works in phpBB.

For example, in the google search box enter: site:muffwiggler.com search_terms

So to find these, I entered: site:muffwiggler.com no input mixing
and these came to the top

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=13581&start=50
viewtopic.php?t=86143
viewtopic.php?t=28035

There are others but those are a good start.

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Unborn Gore
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:44 pm

bphenix wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:46 pm
I tend to do most my searching now via google search given how search currently works in phpBB.

For example, in the google search box enter: site:muffwiggler.com search_terms

So to find these, I entered: site:muffwiggler.com no input mixing
and these came to the top

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=13581&start=50
viewtopic.php?t=86143
viewtopic.php?t=28035

There are others but those are a good start.
Thank you.

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Unborn Gore
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:14 am

Okay, after reading the other threads I am wondering a few things that weren’t discussed.

1. Does anyone know of the use of TS cables instead of TRS cables makes a difference?

2. What about deviation from the “no input” ethic by inserting, say, a drum machine into an unused input? Is it possible to cross no-input with traditional mixing?

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Re: No input mixing

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:31 am

Unborn Gore wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:14 am
Okay, after reading the other threads I am wondering a few things that weren’t discussed.

1. Does anyone know of the use of TS cables instead of TRS cables makes a difference?

2. What about deviation from the “no input” ethic by inserting, say, a drum machine into an unused input? Is it possible to cross no-input with traditional mixing?
yes, I do this all the time. it is karplus strong synthesis. I also have problems with really well made gear that has good noise floor. I need to mix in white noise or square wave LFO to start the oscillation from silence.

TRS cables on both the output and the input have double the voltage compared to TS cables. in theory your maximum output voltage is increased and your signal is hotter coming in. therefor less gain is required on the preamp.
WWW.EATYOURGUITAR.COM <---- MY DIY STUFF

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Unborn Gore
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:53 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:31 am

yes, I do this all the time. it is karplus strong synthesis. I also have problems with really well made gear that has good noise floor. I need to mix in white noise or square wave LFO to start the oscillation from silence.

TRS cables on both the output and the input have double the voltage compared to TS cables. in theory your maximum output voltage is increased and your signal is hotter coming in. therefor less gain is required on the preamp.
Exactly what I wanted to know, thank-you.


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Unborn Gore
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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:06 pm

Yes. Her video is what inspired me to nab a 1202 VlZ3, which was not expensive.

One great that about this is that ot doesn’t cost a kidney to participate. My next purchase will be a 10-band EQ to control the feedback tones after the mixer, and that’s only going to cost about $75.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Claude » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:20 pm

Nice! My partner uses a VLZ3 802 and I nabbed a very inexpensive Chinese EQ7 pedal which she utilizes as well. Really enjoy no input practice, have fun!

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Re: No input mixing

Post by thelowerrhythm » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:42 pm

The most useful thing anyone ever told me about no input mixing was to learn as much as possible from videos and forums and fellow audionauts, and then purposefully identify and try out anything they didn't do.
"Ah yeah, you’ve got that strange blend of apathy and self-flagellation that somehow gets you where you want to go."

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:27 pm

thelowerrhythm wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:42 pm
The most useful thing anyone ever told me about no input mixing was to learn as much as possible from videos and forums and fellow audionauts, and then purposefully identify and try out anything they didn't do.
So down with this line of thinking.

Things have gone well. The VLZ3 has so many ways to change the sound that I have spent hours just droning and exploring. I really want to get a quality digital reverb to just send these sounds into deep space.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by thelowerrhythm » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:31 am

Unborn Gore wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:27 pm
thelowerrhythm wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:42 pm
The most useful thing anyone ever told me about no input mixing was to learn as much as possible from videos and forums and fellow audionauts, and then purposefully identify and try out anything they didn't do.
So down with this line of thinking.

Things have gone well. The VLZ3 has so many ways to change the sound that I have spent hours just droning and exploring. I really want to get a quality digital reverb to just send these sounds into deep space.
I worded it somewhat inelegantly, but yeah. This advice applies to most things, but no input is so incredibly abstract, and the process itself asks you to do all of the wrong things, so to speak. It feels a lot like modular, only the labels are wrong and the circuitry keeps changing shape underneath.
"Ah yeah, you’ve got that strange blend of apathy and self-flagellation that somehow gets you where you want to go."

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Technologear? » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:18 am

Thanks to this thread, I just had my first attempt. Finding those rhythmic loops is great fun, like audio treasure hunting. I'll review my recording tomorrow to see if there's stuff worth sampling. Next I'd like to try using more fx pedals, through my bass / PA rig

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Unborn Gore » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:28 pm

Technologear? wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:18 am
Thanks to this thread, I just had my first attempt. Finding those rhythmic loops is great fun, like audio treasure hunting. I'll review my recording tomorrow to see if there's stuff worth sampling. Next I'd like to try using more fx pedals, through my bass / PA rig
What I have found thus far is that delay within the loop yields interesting stuff, and fuzz/reverb at the end is very gratifying.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by thelowerrhythm » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:14 am

Recorded this earlier and thought I'd toss it in this thread. I wasn't sure what having even more controls would do for me, but found the increased flexibility to be reflected in the sound on some level. Might try chaining more in the future.

"Ah yeah, you’ve got that strange blend of apathy and self-flagellation that somehow gets you where you want to go."

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Re: No input mixing

Post by carbonhazard » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 am

I just bought a second mixer, gonna get into this shit hard. I've done feedback loops with just pedals for ages as well as a behringer xenyx, but never used more than one mixer before.

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Re: No input mixing

Post by thelowerrhythm » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:12 pm

carbonhazard wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 am
I just bought a second mixer, gonna get into this shit hard. I've done feedback loops with just pedals for ages as well as a behringer xenyx, but never used more than one mixer before.
Yeah I dunno I haven't seen anyone do it. Undoubtedly people have, but I haven't seen an example or really any talk about it.
Last edited by thelowerrhythm on Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Ah yeah, you’ve got that strange blend of apathy and self-flagellation that somehow gets you where you want to go."

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Re: No input mixing

Post by Technologear? » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:47 am

Unborn Gore wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:28 pm
What I have found thus far is that delay within the loop yields interesting stuff, and fuzz/reverb at the end is very gratifying.
Tried using delay, good tip. Extreme eq prior to the delay helped.
I also used a tremelo as an lfo which helped get more rhythmic loops.
Pedals with single in, dual out, are a good way to get more in outs used. And those cheap pedals with horrible noise floor are great for this.
I used a drum machine too for the below take.

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