Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm

red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)

It’s based on a synth company. How is it not synth!? Get a couple more posts under your belt before you start dictating where things need to go. This isn’t Gearslutz.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Zymos » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:38 pm

...And to state the obvious, no one is being forced to read it...
maybe you’d like to buy some nice used modules? Free cables with purchase!!

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=235367&p=3313562&h ... s#p3313562


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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Peake » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:21 pm

Koekepan wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Who needs politics to polarize and damage a community.
This whole discussion effectively is about politics. Regulation of businesses (current, future or hypothetical) is a political topic, and if you read closely you'll see that many are applying their own moral codes to their analyses - again, a typical feature of politics.

"THEY need to run by MY preferred rules. There oughta be a law!"

Classic politics.
What I've learned in the hardest manner is that in all levels of human interaction, the lowest common denominator rules because it is willing to use force and manipulation to survive in environments in which it otherwise would have to be original in order to feel good about itself. Thus, higher standards lose and those willing to throw in with the lowest common denominator take over and congratulate themselves as if they'd done something of value.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by red » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:14 pm

3hands wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm
red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)

It’s based on a synth company. How is it not synth!? Get a couple more posts under your belt before you start dictating where things need to go. This isn’t Gearslutz.
Thank you - so, I will ask again as soon as I reached 1600 posts!

8-)
red

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by strettara » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:41 pm

Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:21 pm
Koekepan wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Who needs politics to polarize and damage a community.
This whole discussion effectively is about politics. Regulation of businesses (current, future or hypothetical) is a political topic, and if you read closely you'll see that many are applying their own moral codes to their analyses - again, a typical feature of politics.

"THEY need to run by MY preferred rules. There oughta be a law!"

Classic politics.
What I've learned in the hardest manner is that in all levels of human interaction, the lowest common denominator rules because it is willing to use force and manipulation to survive in environments in which it otherwise would have to be original in order to feel good about itself. Thus, higher standards lose and those willing to throw in with the lowest common denominator take over and congratulate themselves as if they'd done something of value.
It’s a dialectic, and in any case, isn’t there a risk of the definition of “higher standards” being somewhat self-serving? At least, after several grappas and catching up on this thread on the toilet, that’s what occurs to me off the top of my head.
Last edited by strettara on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:43 pm

red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)
could you please move your complaint to the “General NOBODY-CARES discussion.” THANKS

you opened this thread on your own. the thread title isn’t misleading in any way at all so you can either avoid it at all costs or contribute to it. its really that easy. no reason to bother the moderators, this isn’t the first time they’ve seen this thread. and tbh it probably already takes up more of their time than it should.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by in_sherman » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:53 pm

ok google bear ringer just friends clone

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:13 pm

red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:14 pm
3hands wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm
red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)

It’s based on a synth company. How is it not synth!? Get a couple more posts under your belt before you start dictating where things need to go. This isn’t Gearslutz.
Thank you - so, I will ask again as soon as I reached 1600 posts!

8-)
Maybe 10,000? And next time, don’t open a thread that had been closed for sometime to say something mouthy, and then complain. Also, keep your attitude to yourself.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Joe. » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:14 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:15 pm
Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Who needs politics to polarize and damage a community.
is it really a "community" where you can only talk about certain things?
No, obviously the only 'true communities' are ones in which all speech is free and nothing is censored, whether that be politics, incest, paedophilia, or just pure hate speech. Sounds groovy.

During your ban, please explore some of the other 'failed communities' on the internet, and tell us all what you think about them in a week.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:16 pm

in_sherman wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:53 pm
ok google bear ringer just friends clone
Sometimes searches do throw random potentially upcoming Beh clones in my face, but searching for non existing ones does not summon them into existence yet has been my experience. Example of the former from today, can’t remember which not directly related query lead me to it:

Image
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Nelson Baboon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:20 pm

wtf? my "ban"? For that?

and obviously there was more subtlety to my post than your caricature of it.
Joe. wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:14 pm
Nelson Baboon wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:15 pm
Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Who needs politics to polarize and damage a community.
is it really a "community" where you can only talk about certain things?
No, obviously the only 'true communities' are ones in which all speech is free and nothing is censored, whether that be politics, incest, paedophilia, or just pure hate speech. Sounds groovy.

During your ban, please explore some of the other 'failed communities' on the internet, and tell us all what you think about them in a week.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by onthebandwagon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:24 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:20 pm
strettara wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:15 pm
DaShmoop wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:35 am
If you aren't happy with our current corporate overrun world then sending your hard earned money to a company like Moog instead of Behringer is worth the difference. We're in a consumerist trap where many people will buy a cheaply constructed rip off synthesizer from a company with questionable ethics just to save a buck so they can buy more gear. I'd rather have a single Moog than a studio full of Behringer.

As a society we should take more pride in music and uphold it as a sacred art. We're all on this forum because at one or multiple points in our lives we have been deeply impacted by music. I personally want to support a company that makes music gear because of their deep connection to music, rather than their uncontrollable greed.
I have to ask - how do you know what Uli Behringer's connection to music is? How do you know he's motivated just by greed? How do you know he's not deeply impacted by music, as much as any of us? It seems pretty presumptuous, this attitude. Maybe he always struggled to afford high priced equipment when he was a boy and now has a mission to "democratize" music production.

I mean I don't know anything about the guy nor do I care very much, but I find the moralistic posturing on this forum over a company selling cheap equipment pretty distasteful, let alone the very personal attacks on Behringer himself. It's business and business disputes are settled in court by the businesses in question. I'm sure Arturia - to name a case in point - has the resources to take Behringer to court if they want to, and whether they choose to or not is entirely their affair.

As for contributing to music, I imagine Uli Behringer has contributed far more than most people.

BTW - techno as a sacred art? :lol: :lol: :lol: You gotta laugh.
you nicely chop stuff up into categories that fit with your condescending attitude. One can do the same, pretty much, with anything
Well at least he's consistent with his glib jabs although and to be fair they generally have as much bite as milquetoast.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Zymos » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:47 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:06 pm
I am forcing 5 people to read it. If everyone forced 5 people to read it, then we should be covered.
I think that is abusive behavior, and I bet most people would agree! 8-)
maybe you’d like to buy some nice used modules? Free cables with purchase!!

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=235367&p=3313562&h ... s#p3313562

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:51 pm

3hands wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm
red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)

It’s based on a synth company. How is it not synth!? Get a couple more posts under your belt before you start dictating where things need to go. This isn’t Gearslutz.
One could argue that this is the most Gearslutzworthy thread on Muffs. Anyways, why can’t Red speak his mind on this? It’s not an unfounded statement nor is it an unjustified opinion. For the record: I do think it belongs here so anyone can access the dark side of Muffs and vent if needed. So bring that shit Mufferthuckers!
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by dubonaire » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:13 pm

Koekepan wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Peake wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:09 pm
Who needs politics to polarize and damage a community.
This whole discussion effectively is about politics. Regulation of businesses (current, future or hypothetical) is a political topic, and if you read closely you'll see that many are applying their own moral codes to their analyses - again, a typical feature of politics.

"THEY need to run by MY preferred rules. There oughta be a law!"

Classic politics.
That's just a ridiculously long bow. Almost every activity is regulated in some manner so by your logic we can't talk about anything, be it poor customer service, what people wear, or what makes a power supply labelled safe in a certain jurisdiction.

And no one is saying they need to do anything. People are saying they don't like how a particularly company behaves, they are not complaining to a politician. Don't make this political because it simply is not. Classic calling posts you don't like politics.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:04 pm

Well, I'm only back in this thread because one of my friends has been banned so I wanted to see what all the kerfuffle was about. It wasn't about much, evidently. People are being banned from this forum for things that would barely have raised a supercilious smirk years ago. Oh well, times change, things get shitty, it's the way of the world.

ANYWAY, I did have something concrete to contribute. I've recently been reading a very good (and timely) book called "The Sane Society" by Erich Fromm. It was published in 1954, but it could have been written yesterday. In today's reading, Fromm was contrasting capitalism as practiced in the 17th and 18th centuries, vs capitalism as practiced in the 19th century. In the 17th and 18th centuries, capitalism was very much viewed as a tool for uplifting all of humanity. Businessmen had to make a profit, but not at the expense of everybody else. For example, it was very much frowned upon to "undersell" your competition, because while it had short-term economic benefits to the underseller, ultimately it dragged the entire industry down. However, things changed in the mid-19th century, business became much more cut-throat, exploitation of labour was not only expected but encouraged, and the role of competition changed from improving products and processes to destroying competitors and monopolizing the industry.

I would say, based on today's reading, that Behringer fits in very well with the 19th century practice of capitalism.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:25 pm

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:04 pm
I would say, based on today's reading, that Behringer fits in very well with the 19th century practice of capitalism.
that sounds like a good read. based on your description, 19th century capitalism is alive and thriving in many industries.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by onthebandwagon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm

What of Japan? Isn't their still a strong tradition of wanting your business to succeed so you can employee more people and give even more back to society?
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:05 pm

Voltcontrol wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:51 pm
3hands wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm
red wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm
Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Could you please move this thread to "General NON-SYNTH discussion. NSFW." - boring, boringer, ... Behringer is definitive not a "General Gear". THANKS

(this thread is like a big stone in the shoe)

It’s based on a synth company. How is it not synth!? Get a couple more posts under your belt before you start dictating where things need to go. This isn’t Gearslutz.
One could argue that this is the most Gearslutzworthy thread on Muffs. Anyways, why can’t Red speak his mind on this? It’s not an unfounded statement nor is it an unjustified opinion. For the record: I do think it belongs here so anyone can access the dark side of Muffs and vent if needed. So bring that shit Mufferthuckers!
He totally can, I was acting a bit of a wanker. My apologies to Red. I do feel that we are getting a lot of “slutz” migrating to here though. Perhaps my pessimism was breaking though in that earlier post. And mufferthuckers is my new fave word!
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:22 pm

onthebandwagon wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm
What of Japan? Isn't their still a strong tradition of wanting your business to succeed so you can employee more people and give even more back to society?
Hahahah ...no.

I lived and worked there for more than 6 years. Most of the businesses and business owners I had contact with (quite a few) were about the owners flaunting their wealth and status symbols to the other owners while paying their employees a pittance and working them to exhaustion.

It took me 2 years to realize that I was one of those status symbols...a highly paid gaijin to enhance the brand.

Now, it may be that the industry I was in (beverages) was like that because it was dominated by pre-Meiji period samurai families. I did work with a couple of newer companies that were a bit closer to what I would consider the norm, but they were both run by people that had spent a lot of time learning business overseas.

But I have to say I was shocked when I found out about the (comparably) miniscule salaries my japanese colleagues earned...even the most senior ones. And when I was in the room with business owners speaking amongst themselves, a great deal of the talk was bragging about how far they could make city officials bend over to meet their trivial demands.

Capitalism is a nice idea when everyone plays nice. But just like every economic system, there is ample opportunity for abuse, and greed is not a rare trait.

I am curious to see what kind of DAW Music Tribe comes up with...they certainly aren't earning any friends by (faithfully) copying yet another current market item. I've heard good things about their top-of-the-line mixing and mastering equipment (not that I would ever need that) and I imagine their DAW will be largely informed by that market.

I'm just puzzled. It really seems like they have good know-how...why not just build a standalone line of equipment? The keystep isn't even all that awesome or iconic. Why would you want to clone a Ford Focus...only with your own shitty engine in it? I mean I get doing the BARP...it's like a modern version of a Jaguar E-type. And even stuff like the CAT (Pacer, maybe?) makes a certain amount of sense, since there weren't that many available to begin with. I mean, if you're going to piss everyone off by ripping off a design from a current product, why not rip off the GenoQs Octopus or something else unique and amazing? Why pick a fight with Arturia?

It's so random!

(oof...thinking about my time in Japan brings up some horribly embarrassing memories...so glad that keitai videos were still new and that no one recorded some of those antics!)
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by BlinkyLights » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:32 pm

I find various Behringer products to be in poor taste, and particularly so. There's a trolly, cunty, pettiness about it that goes above and beyond what I find acceptable.

I suspect it's a top-down problem with @Uli himself.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by onthebandwagon » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:37 pm

Flounderguts wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:22 pm
onthebandwagon wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm
What of Japan? Isn't their still a strong tradition of wanting your business to succeed so you can employee more people and give even more back to society?
Hahahah ...no.

I lived and worked there for more than 6 years. Most of the businesses and business owners I had contact with (quite a few) were about the owners flaunting their wealth and status symbols to the other owners while paying their employees a pittance and working them to exhaustion.

It took me 2 years to realize that I was one of those status symbols...a highly paid gaijin to enhance the brand.

Ah ok, I've had this assumption for a while now based on meeting this older Japanese guy years ago in NYC who owned a bunch of restaurants here, he was standing at the bar next to me getting drunk on soju, never sitting. Well, I got drunk too. He told me he was a manager at Benihana for many years, and spoke with great respect for the guy who started that chain. Anyways, he kept on telling me he needed to open more restaurants so he could employ more people. I was impressed but also by the fact that he had to catch a train home to CT and walk a mile to his house.
I criticize by creation and by finding fault

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It'd be exactly where I'm at"

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by strettara » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:18 pm

The Fromm book sounds interesting. And what is this talk of banning? Surely nothing in this thread warrants a ban? I hope it was a joke.

BTW the recent turn this discussion has taken reminds me of of a personal story. My father was a brilliant businessman but his family suffered for his workaholic nature and he really wasn't a lovely chap on a personal level. I remember one of his business associates delivered a eulogy at the funeral in which he praised him for his business acumen and having given work to (as I recall, and it may have been hyperbole) "tens of thousands of people", and it really cast him in a new light for me, although at the time I was still angry about how he had treated his children, being one of them myself. I guess there's at least two sides to every story.
Last edited by strettara on Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Gringo Starr » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:31 pm

3hands wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:05 pm
I do feel that we are getting a lot of “slutz” migrating to here though.
I've noticed this over the past years. It's the trolling and constant need to debate what's been said and/or attack someone based on how they've spun someones words into something it wasn't intended to mean that has made it become GS'ish. That seemed to have become a characteristic of the Electronic Music forum GS post Skrillex success. Now many have come here and brought that same energy. Muffs has definitely changed but there's still way more good people on Muffs than not. I learn a lot of things from the members here and enjoy reading peoples thoughts. In general I think most people here are intelligent people. Some very much so.

Anyways about Behringer... after reading the past few pages I think I'll keep my opinions to myself but so far I don't own anything from them. I might break down for their 909 drum machine if they pull it off close enough though. :-)

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