MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms Of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioWiggler Radio   SearchSearch   Muff Wiggler Blog & NewsBlog & News   Muff Wiggler StoreMW Store 
 RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 

converting between minijacks and bananas on 200eGoto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next [all]
 MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author converting between minijacks and bananas on 200e
BugBrand
Knowledge of Bugs


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 28 Feb 2015

Posts: 4711

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't know much (umm, almost nothing!!) about the ins&outs of Buchla, but my understanding is that the audio signals on the tinijax are 1v (maybe 2v?) swing about ground whereas control voltages will be much larger ?10V swings and, I think, these are unipolar (0 to +10). That, in my opinion, places some limitations on cross patching - both due to amplitude and offset. I daresay that any modules with dual inputs (Banana & jack) would have slightly different input circuitry because of the signal differences.

A hunch says that you won't damage anything cross patching, but I really have no clue!

Wouldn't a ModuleModule be possible with active conversion circuitry?
- ie jack to banana amplifies and offsets // banana to jack attenuates and offsets?

_________________
http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dougcl
Number 6


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2015

Posts: 3999
Location: Portland OR

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It makes sense to have a banana to 1/8 adapter for the 259e FM input for mem-skew modulation. That's about it. In general, a well designed system has just enough flexibility and no more. Constraints are good. The separation of signals has many advantages, most notably in my opinion, the ease with which one can decipher the patch, working backwards from effects to causes. This is really important when using the preset manager. So while the separation is a constraint, it opens up more possibilities by making the system easier to work with. The system is flexible enough to lead to dizzying complexity as is, especially when you engage the preset manager to work across patches. It takes the patch interface into 3D. Hard to imagine complaining about limitations under the circumstances. But to each his own, and fortunately there are other options.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tobor wrote:
this limiting thing is absurd...
max/MSP works the same way and it can't be called limited.
Plugging anything anywhere is not an absolute plus.


Quote:
two simple examples i can think of, just now, without patching:

use both osc's of 259e and 261e as mod sources for the 281e A and D time modulation inputs?


to obtain what? nothing logical from a synthesis point of view.
the modulator frequency is too fast to get appreciable modulations.
You would get a sort of crap amplitude modulation distortion.


Quote:
another: run the AD from 281e in audio rate and use this as audio source to input it into the ringmod 'reference' or 'signal' input, while using the same AD ( in audio rate running) to modulate the banana 'timbre' input of the 285e ringmod...


another synthesis nonsense...


Quote:
se the waveshaped out of 261e primary osc or the 259e primary osc out to modulate panning on the 206e....


another one...
what would you get modulating pan at audio rate? just distortion...


Quote:
use the 255 and 256e voltage processors to process audio from the minijack outs of the 259e and 261e.... (for example, the slew limiting of the 255 as simple lowpass filtering...)


one could use the 292 LPF with better results I bet...



seriously, i just don't get it


well, you keep on your insulting comments... i'll try to reply in a kind manner:

you are missing the point.
the 'distortion' you mention is interesting!!

you have to go beyond the standard and expected!

these are the modulars!

modulating the A and D times, from both osc's, IS useful, because you have double the possible modulation sources.
also the primary oscs go down to 27Hz, so they are near sub-audio.

moreover, having the AD envelope at cycling mode (in audio rate, making it an OSC) and being able to modulate its A and D times in audio rate MIGHT give very interesting results. (also i have to try this too...)

moduating panning at audio rate is great, i do it in my other modulars many times.... ('panning' is actually two vca's. modulating them in audio rate is AM synthesis, giving results similar to Ringmod...)

regarding the slew limiting as LP filtering: having extra lowpass filters is always useful!

regarding cross patching the audio and cv section of the 210e:
feedback and more feedback and more feedback patching...

anyway you seem to not want to (or fail to understand) my points so, i'll stop trying to convince you, i have better things to do...

after all, what do i know? i only teach modular synthesis....

modular synthesis is NOT logical.
modulars are musical instruments, Not scientific measuring equipment.

Patch with your Heart, not with your Brain! hmmm.....

just because Don, had specific ideas in his head when making these intruments (many decades ago), the end user is not supposed to follow them.

a true artist converts his musical instrument to match his vision, he/she is not obliged to be converted to the instrument manufacturer's vision.
again, IMHO....

but, maybe i have insulted the (so called) elit of Buchla modular owners? lol lol lol

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

BugBrand wrote:
I don't know much (umm, almost nothing!!) about the ins&outs of Buchla, but my understanding is that the audio signals on the tinijax are 1v (maybe 2v?) swing about ground whereas control voltages will be much larger ?10V swings and, I think, these are unipolar (0 to +10). That, in my opinion, places some limitations on cross patching - both due to amplitude and offset. I daresay that any modules with dual inputs (Banana & jack) would have slightly different input circuitry because of the signal differences.

A hunch says that you won't damage anything cross patching, but I really have no clue!

Wouldn't a ModuleModule be possible with active conversion circuitry?
- ie jack to banana amplifies and offsets // banana to jack attenuates and offsets?


hi Tom,

i am aware that there are differences in levels between the banana and tinyjax sockets, so, i do not know what cross-patching examples will work nicely and what will not.
maybe these level differences, dictate that the system is not made to be cross-patched (i mean its bananas to its jaxa and vice-versa).... then indeed this cross-patching would not give any special results. but, it is STILL a limitation....regarding creative potential...

as i said, i was only mentaly-patching before, i have to actually try this cross-patching in reality, to see what gives interesting results.... smile

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

BUT, there is a big BUT:

maybe, these signal differences (regarding voltage levels and offsets) between the banana I/O's and Tinyjax I/O's, do not really allow for nice results, when making these cross-patching examples i mentioned before.

then, indeed, cross-patching will not make much sense... (and this will be a pity because it will be a limitation...)

but, one has to try it first to judge....

and i repeat: the Buchla 200e is a great modular with fantastic sound and capabilities. i never said it isn't. i am just wishing for more patching freedom for the end user....

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

BUT, you maybe can bypass these problems, with a bit of voltage attenuation and offseting....

i recently made a patch, using audio from my two 254v (and envelops from my 281e) and gating the two 254v's, using one serge vca and one euro analogue systems vca. (i wish i had a second 292e, but i do not now...)

as you all know, AS vca is all minijacks and Serge vca is all banana's.

guess what: after converting between the sockets (using a custom banana to minijack panel i have in my Serge, which is passive!) everything worked fine! only a bit of attenuation was needed to tame the voltage output from the 281e AD, when it was controlling the serge vca that needs less voltage to fully open.

so, it worked and it sounded awesome.

so, probably, these voltage differences in the banana's and tinyjax sockets of the Buchla are not SO important (and difficult to overcome) after all...

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

phew...
back from the 200e...

so, i tested: audio rate modulation of panning in 206e, sounds just fine!

audio rate running AD's (from 281e) as input to frequency shifter and ringmod also sound very nice and special!

cross-patching gives nice results indeed! thumbs up

the results: one more nice rhythmic scape recorded for my next album...

cross-patch away! Guinness ftw!

(with attenuation needed in some points...)

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

regarding the offset that the buchla banana outs may have:

my tests just showed that there is no offset at all.
in detail: i tested the 250e cv1 out, stopped in a step with this step knob turned all the way to 0volts. my analog voltometer showed 0volts
(my voltometer being a Doepfer A-197 module).

also tested the cv out of an AD from an 281e, without it being triggered by anything. again 0volts.

so, no offset in the Buchla 200e banana outs.
(unless there is offset in the 259e and 261e mod osc banana outs?)

...the weather for cross-patching seems fine....

also, no module of mine has been damaged so far, from today's crosspatching...
(but cross-patch at your own risk of course...)

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dougcl
Number 6


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2015

Posts: 3999
Location: Portland OR

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think what is meant by offset, is the fact that CV is unipolar. Audio signals are bipolar. So comparing a sine say, on the mod osc banana out with the mod osc audio out, you should see a unipolar signal from the banana, and bipolar from the audio. In other words, the banana output has an offset to bring the whole wave into the positive region. The audio out doesn't.

This is one of the reasons that Buchla separates the cv from the audio. Also, considering the dual purpose of the 281e, both envelope and LFO, it makes sense that all CV should be unipolar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 14 May 2009
Last Visit: 10 Feb 2015

Posts: 2227
Location: Rotterdam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gotta love those Buchlaboys....
_________________
Open tape:
http://jenamu6.muffwiggler.com
My youtube modular music movies:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jenamu6&search_type=&aq=f
My modular noises:
http://soundcloud.com/jenamu6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chrisso
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 30 May 2009
Last Visit: 06 Jan 2015

Posts: 2846

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the perceived limitation is a strength.
The separation of audio from control forces you to think in new ways, or patch in new configurations leading to new sounds and new ways of doing things.
If Buchla 200e is your only modular system it makes sense to get as much flexibility and freedom out of it as possible. If the 200e sits alongside other modular systems, I'd suggest working with those in known ways, and finding new ways to work with the Buchla.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oljud
DOG


Joined: 19 Jul 2011
Last Visit: 17 Feb 2015

Posts: 761
Location: sweden

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Go for it! I've been patching my school's Buchla 200 a lot and the school had three home soldered banana-to-tini-cables. I used them A LOT. Using a 284 cross-patched as oscillators, using the 16 step sequencer as a wavetable synth, also while sending a 20khz sine tone into it's analog input (aliasing! noise!). It's lovely, and i get all the good stuff about patch legibility and better signal integrity. I DON'T CARE!

The source of uncertainty should be a fantastic noise oscillator with feedback and stuff. Unfortunately my school only had the boring kind. No CV control :-(

There should be a law that everythinh must have banana's. I'm going to go euro, but I want bananas...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dougcl wrote:
I think what is meant by offset, is the fact that CV is unipolar. Audio signals are bipolar. So comparing a sine say, on the mod osc banana out with the mod osc audio out, you should see a unipolar signal from the banana, and bipolar from the audio. In other words, the banana output has an offset to bring the whole wave into the positive region. The audio out doesn't.

This is one of the reasons that Buchla separates the cv from the audio. Also, considering the dual purpose of the 281e, both envelope and LFO, it makes sense that all CV should be unipolar.


ok, that makes sense of course.
yes, in that sense then, there is offset in various cv sources of 200e, as all are unipolar.
so, if you treat these unipolar cv's, as audio, this audio (for example, a 250e running in audio rate) will have a dc-offset. ok.

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

chrisso wrote:
I think the perceived limitation is a strength.
The separation of audio from control forces you to think in new ways, or patch in new configurations leading to new sounds and new ways of doing things.
If Buchla 200e is your only modular system it makes sense to get as much flexibility and freedom out of it as possible. If the 200e sits alongside other modular systems, I'd suggest working with those in known ways, and finding new ways to work with the Buchla.


ok, but it is still a limitation.

but, all it takes is a converting patch panel, so, even this limitation is very easily bypassed... smile

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dougcl wrote:
I think what is meant by offset, is the fact that CV is unipolar. Audio signals are bipolar. So comparing a sine say, on the mod osc banana out with the mod osc audio out, you should see a unipolar signal from the banana, and bipolar from the audio. In other words, the banana output has an offset to bring the whole wave into the positive region. The audio out doesn't.

This is one of the reasons that Buchla separates the cv from the audio. Also, considering the dual purpose of the 281e, both envelope and LFO, it makes sense that all CV should be unipolar.


btw, in that sense, many serge NTO/PCO waveform outputs have offset (as they are not Bipolar, apart from the sinewave), various euro modules lfo outputs have offsets, etc, etc... but there is nothing stopping anyone to use these as audio sources of course.
after all, the ac-coupled audio inputs in various other audio processing modules, will cut-out the dc-offset of a unipolar signal....

...so, in the end, the 200e is actually a pretty cross-patching friendly machine! thumbs up

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
franzschuier
fart box afficinado


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 04 Jan 2015

Posts: 1147

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:
.
in detail: i tested the 250e cv1 out, stopped in a step with this step knob turned all the way to 0volts. my analog voltometer showed 0volts
(my voltometer being a Doepfer A-197 module).

also tested the cv out of an AD from an 281e, without it being triggered by anything. again 0volts.

so, no offset in the Buchla 200e banana outs.
(unless there is offset in the 259e and 261e mod osc banana outs?)

...the weather for cross-patching seems fine....

also, no module of mine has been damaged so far, from today's crosspatching...
(but cross-patch at your own risk of course...)


We should have a buchla sticky with voltages and infos like this!

_________________
current bandcamp release:
http://franzschuier.bandcamp.com

web:
www.franzschuier.com
www.beansandbacon.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dougcl
Number 6


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2015

Posts: 3999
Location: Portland OR

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:

btw, in that sense, many serge NTO/PCO waveform outputs have offset (as they are not Bipolar, apart from the sinewave), various euro modules lfo outputs have offsets, etc, etc... but there is nothing stopping anyone to use these as audio sources of course.


In general for euro, no. This is surprising to hear about in Serge-land.

The Buchla does seem to tolerate negative voltages into the CV jacks, they are however simply ignored. So if you run your euro LFO into a Buchla banana, only half the signal will do anything unless you employ some kind of offset manually.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dougcl wrote:
Parallel Worlds wrote:

btw, in that sense, many serge NTO/PCO waveform outputs have offset (as they are not Bipolar, apart from the sinewave), various euro modules lfo outputs have offsets, etc, etc... but there is nothing stopping anyone to use these as audio sources of course.


In general for euro, no. This is surprising to hear about in Serge-land.

The Buchla does seem to tolerate negative voltages into the CV jacks, they are however simply ignored. So if you run your euro LFO into a Buchla banana, only half the signal will do anything unless you employ some kind of offset manually.


yep, the doepfer lfo's have some waveforms that are bipolar and some unipolar, (and maybe that is true for other lfo modules from other euro makers), so, there's the offset you mention...
also some waveforms of the Serge vco's are unipolar and the sinewave is bipolar.
but, in a system with a single nature of sockets that is no problem really. you use the offset in some cases as you like and, in other cases, you just add some negative cv offset and make the offset-ed wave bipolar... smile

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
e-grad
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Last Visit: 28 Feb 2015

Posts: 2960
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What might perceived as a limitation today has obviously historical reasons. To understand why CV and audio signals are seperated you'll have to keep in mind the electronical constraints in the 1970s. Regarding the 200e: Don wanted to keep the standard he has established in the 1970s.

What is called a repeatedly a limitation is none from the point of view by someone who wants to mix and match both a 200 system and a 200e system.

Quote:
Electrical compatibility is also important, and our last power supply revision was in 1970. The 200e provides highly regulated supplies at plus and minus 15 Volts (not the 12 Volts of the external power supply), a fact easily confirmed with a little probing of the innards. Only two older modules, again the 212 and 275, require an additional voltage (24 Volts).
Signal, control voltage and pulse levels are another aspect of compatibility. Once again, our last revision was in 1970 — all 200 modules, including 200e versions, have followed suit. My conclusion is that the 200e series modules maintain their intended compatibility with their predecessors, with the aforementioned rare exceptions.

Don Buchla http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/crosstalk.htm


Quote:
The early Buchlas utilized several power supplies of different voltages, there were no LEDs at the time so incandescent lamps were used all over the front panels and these had their own power requirements. Also the control voltage were a mighty ten or even more volts in the system, while the outside world was using the standard one volt peak to peak audio line level and Don adapted his audio chain to those levels. The simplest way to keep all of that isolated was to use separate connectors. It was probably this necessary isolation between control and audio that lead to exploration with opto-isolators and the rest is Low Pass Gate history.

From: Cynthia Webster
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:29 -0700

Quote:
The Buchla philosophy here is that by having a different connector, the audio can travel safely on shielded wires at line level, and the audio paths are visually distinct from the control paths. The visual distinction is not to be sneezed at. I find that when tracing a control path, I don't really even see the mini cables carrying audio.

Having system audio running at line level means that tapping an audio signal at any point in a patch and sending it to an external processor is a simple matter of mini-plug to 1/4" cables. Buchla systems also tend to have mini jacks for FM/AM where needed.

From: Chris Muir
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:16:32 -0700

_________________
elektrograd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lyonel
button pusher


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Last Visit: 28 Feb 2015

Posts: 3289
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Quote:
The Buchla philosophy here is that by having a different connector, the audio can travel safely on shielded wires at line level, and the audio paths are visually distinct from the control paths. The visual distinction is not to be sneezed at. I find that when tracing a control path, I don't really even see the mini cables carrying audio.

Having system audio running at line level means that tapping an audio signal at any point in a patch and sending it to an external processor is a simple matter of mini-plug to 1/4" cables. Buchla systems also tend to have mini jacks for FM/AM where needed.

From: Chris Muir
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:16:32 -0700



Yes, Yes and re-Yes !

_________________
SoundCloud : Vimeo : YouTube : BandCamp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

of course, i totally understand that Don had specific reasons for doing what he did. i do not doubt that at all.

but, it does not hurt the artist to experiment and crosspatch bananas to minijacks... smile

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dougcl
Number 6


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2015

Posts: 3999
Location: Portland OR

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:

yep, the doepfer lfo's have some waveforms that are bipolar and some unipolar, (and maybe that is true for other lfo modules from other euro makers), so, there's the offset you mention...


I don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps there is one on the A-145? They are all bipolar. That's why they require offset before running to the A-156.

Quote:
also some waveforms of the Serge vco's are unipolar and the sinewave is bipolar.

Again, this is really surprising, to the extent that I am am skeptical about the truth of it.

Quote:

but, in a system with a single nature of sockets that is no problem really. you use the offset in some cases as you like and, in other cases, you just add some negative cv offset and make the offset-ed wave bipolar... smile


Unipolar to bipolar is handled automatically in AC coupled circuits, which is probably the most common scenario.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unipolar regarding the Doepfer lfo's: the unipolar pulse output of A146 and the saw output of the A147 (and maybe there are more in other lfo modules...?) i do not have the time to measure all of them....

Unipolar regarding the Serge: the Saw and Triangle output of the Serge PCO for sure, and (most probably) the saw and triangle output of the NTO. also, for sure, the Blue banana outputs of the DSG and the DTG. and maybe more. again i do not have the time to measure everything.

i work and use my modulars almost daily, for the last 9 years, so, i really work with them a lot.

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Unipolar to bipolar is handled automatically in AC coupled circuits, which is probably the most common scenario.


of course! but i was talking about the situation that you want to make bipolar a cv source that will go into a cv input, then you have to add the cv offset yourself.

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Parallel Worlds
unreal-time player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2015

Posts: 598
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

just quickly checked a few more things:
the Doepfer A100 and A111: all waveforms are Bipolar. (ok, i expected that as, IIRC, their outputs are all ac-coupled...)

and, all the other waveforms of all other Doepfer LFO's are Bipolar...

_________________
www.parallel-worlds-music.com
www.facebook.com/pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
www.myspace.com/memorygeist
www.DiN.org.uk
www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
 MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Page 2 of 3

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group