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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

[BUILD] - CGS Euro Modules
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author [BUILD] - CGS Euro Modules

clarke68

A thread for people who are building out my CGS Euro Panels, or really anyone who's doing CGS PCBs in Euro. Post questions, post pictures, share tips, share parts...we're all in this together!

These panels are all sold out, however I am now taking orders for another run of a few them here, and am actively checking interest for the rest here.


The knobs I used for my builds (all the photos below) are from Jameco. Obviously you can use any knobs you want, but it will help if you get the size close. Sizes and Jameco part #s are:

small - 0.55" - 136241
medium - 19.8mm - 264990
large (on MSU only) - 33.3mm - 264946


clarke68

MSU






This panel uses the following PCBs:
CGS29 - Wave Multiplier
CGS35 - Synthacon VCF
CGS77 - Serge '73 VCF


Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656


clarke68

Quad Slope






This panel uses 2 CGS114 PCBs.

Note that building out CGS114 is a tad rough...it wasn't intended to become a mainstream PCB (but has caught on for obvious reasons). As such, it doesn't have a proper power connector, and the overall panel wiring isn't quite a clear as some of Ken's other projects. Everything you need to know is at the link above (and I've tried to help with this build guide), it just takes a little more brain power to figure it all out.

That said, if you want an easier time (and don't mind spending twice the money for twice the number of PCBs) you might consider building 4 CGS75 instead.


Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

SP3T Toggle Switch
Mouser - 633-M202402-RO


clarke68

West Coast Mini Synth



Note that, even though it's not shown here, you must use a bracket to mount the PCBs to the West Coast Mini Synth panel.



The West Coast Mini Synth uses the following PCBs:

2 CGS48 - VCO
2 CGS64 - VCA
CGS67 - Active Real Ring Mod
CGS114 - DUSG
CGS04 - Mixer

Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Alpha Single-Gang 9mm Potentiometer, PC Mount
SmallBear - 1012
Mouser - 311-1902F

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

SP3T Toggle Switch
Mouser - 633-M202402-RO


clarke68

Funky Drummer




Functionally equivalent to the left half of Zthee's SWAMP panel, this panel uses the following PCBs:

CGS13
CGS36
CGS31


Panel parts:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Alpha Single-Gang 9mm Potentiometer, PC Mount
SmallBear - 1012
Mouser - 311-1902F

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

Pulse Divider Reset - Mouser #633-FB15ANEP2
Note actual part number is 633-FB15ANEP2-xy, where x is the size (F = small, H = large) and y is the color (C = red, A = black, B = white) of the button cap. This part is pretty critical, as the hole in the panel is specifically sized for this switch. Good quality switch, tho...tested to 50k cycles.

Gated Comparator Manual Loop/Load - Mouser #633-M201901-RO
There are probably other switches that will fit here, just be sure you get one that's ON - OFF - (ON)

Digital Noise Clock & Gated Comparator Loop Enable - most any SPDT ON - ON will work, the mounting holes are 0.25 in. which seems typical. I used part #317236 from Jameco.


fonik

w00t
these look nice!


clarke68

Mounting PCBs to the Panel

On all the panels except for the West Coast Mini Synth you can mount the PCBs directly to the panel...the mounting holes are sized to fit the standard (6" x 2") CGS PCB. This is the MSU:



But why do it like that when all the cool kids are using brackets!?!



Brackets are easy to make. These are made from 1/2" aluminum L-brackets, available at any hardware store, easily cut with a hack saw to 4.25 inches. Note that you don't need L-brackets, just about any metal strip will do. I drill mine with a hand drill. Let me know if anyone needs a step-by-step on doing this:



I want to reiterate that you must use brackets with the West Coast Mini Synth. For all the others it's an option. You wouldn't want all those boards sticking out anyway! Check it out:



Note that these are the brackets I made a few months ago as a test, before I even had the actual panels in hand. Check out how sloppy they are:



...and yet it still fits (with a little cajoling) into the rack. Also note that this is a Tiptop Audio Happy Ending kit...with brackets, even the Mini Synth is borderline skiff-friendly!


You can do this!


clarke68

fonik wrote:
w00t
these look nice!


Thanks man! thumbs up


Pfurmel

fonik wrote:
w00t
these look nice!


They sure do. Excellent work clarke.


lazerkind

Great mounting guide Clarke thumbs up
Looking forward to hear a heavy "clunk!" in my mailbox any day now.


fate

did you make the angled aluminum pieces that go on the standoffs?


keninverse

Sweet looking panels...I LOVE the design of these. I have to say you have quite a knack for designing the layout. Easy to read = easy to patch. Cannot wait to start building.


clarke68

Thanks guys! Really glad you dig the panels. Of all the aspects of SDIY, I actually enjoy panel design the most...it's thrilling for me that more people get to use these panels.

fate wrote:
did you make the angled aluminum pieces that go on the standoffs?

I did. I made them from 1/2" L-bracket...available at any hardware store. It doesn't have to be L-bracket, just a flat piece of aluminum will work. Mark the holes and drill by hand. I'm going to post a few more pictures in the post above later on today.


clarke68

If you're building a Quad Slope or a West Coast Mini Synth, Mongo posted a DUSG "review" over at Electro-Music...it has some really great tips on working with this board, check it out:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50674


lukas412

wow these looks so amazing. really wish i would have gotten in on these. nice work!


clarke68

Quote:
really wish i would have gotten in on these. nice work!

You can if you want! I have extras. Send me a PM! thumbs up


jenamu6

Could these panels and designs be easily bananafied?


lukas412

lukas412 wrote:
wow these looks so amazing. really wish i would have gotten in on these. nice work!


PM'd!


dude

gorgeous


SMS303

jenamu6 wrote:
Could these panels and designs be easily bananafied?

That should be possible, imo ....

Jean will you build them or ..... ???
If you're not...
I'm still busy with 2 Best of CGS BOG's & MARSH...
I can put them in my backlog if you pay enough razz Mr. Green


RealDudes

Can we see a pick of the completed backside of one of these beauties? they look SlayerBadger!


jenamu6

SMS303 wrote:
jenamu6 wrote:
Could these panels and designs be easily bananafied?

That should be possible, imo ....

Jean will you build them or ..... ???
If you're not...
I'm still busy with 2 Best of CGS BOG's & MARSH...
I can put them in my backlog if you pay enough razz Mr. Green


Paying you to screw up components and a PCB?

Me thinks.....NO!!!


SMS303

jenamu6 wrote:
Paying you to screw up components and a PCB?
Me thinks.....NO!!!

d'oh! hmmm..... !LOL! Mr. Green
In Casper we TRUST! SlayerBadger!


clarke68

RealDudes wrote:
Can we see a pick of the completed backside of one of these beauties? they look SlayerBadger!


I just updated the "PCB Mounting" post on the first page with these (and a few other) photos:





That's as far as I've gotten in my builds. At this point, I expect some of the other guys will have boards populated and modules screaming before I do...keep your eye on this thead!


RealDudes

they look like architecture models
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy


clarke68

jenamu6 wrote:
Could these panels and designs be easily bananafied?

Depends what you consider easy. The jack holes are all sized for 3.5mm jacks...about 6mm. The banana jacks I've used require about 8mm, so you'd have to drill out all the jack holes. Not too bad a job if you're fairly comfortable with a drill.

Beyond that, I think there might be one place in all of these panels where I assumed a normalized connection would be implemented...may have been in the Funky Drummer, I can't remember.


apfEID

these are beautiful, I hope I find time to start doing some DIY next year...


Monobass

man I can't wait to start mine...

did you post the details of what knobs you used somewhere?


scozbor

yes these panels have barged in and jumped my DIY queu!


negativspace

Monobass wrote:
did you post the details of what knobs you used somewhere?


Part #s from Jameco are listed in the other thread. thumbs up

I'm going to try some black aluminum ones from Mouser, they had one line that worked for all 3 sizes and wasn't stupidly expensive - I hope they don't suck.


clarke68

Monobass wrote:
did you post the details of what knobs you used somewhere?


They're in the first post of this thread, too, but I'm happy to repeat:

My knobs are from Jameco. Obviously you can use any knobs you want, but it will help if you get the size close. Sizes and Jameco part #s are:

small - 0.55" - 136241
medium - 19.8mm - 264990
large (on MSU only) - 33.3mm - 264946


falafelbiels

SMS303 wrote:
jenamu6 wrote:
Paying you to screw up components and a PCB?
Me thinks.....NO!!!

d'oh! hmmm..... !LOL! Mr. Green
In Casper we TRUST! SlayerBadger!


eek!


clarke68

I went through Ken's site and did a quick search for everything written about building these PCBs for use with +/- 12v. If you find (or know of) any other 12v mods, please post it and I'll keep this list updated.

CGS29 - Wave Multipliers
While untested, the module should work on +/-12 volts.

CGS77 - Serge 1973 VCF
Will run on +/- 12 volts or +/-15 volts.

CGS35 - Steiner VCF
Version 1.3 can be built as shown on the overlay of the PCB ... For use with +/-12 volt supplies, the two diodes marked with rings around their pads on the overlay should be replaced with links.


CGS114 - DUSG / CGS75 - VCS
Will run on +/- 12 volts or +/-15 volts.

CGS48 - VCO
The module will work on +/-12 volts if the 20k resistor connected to pin 3 of the LM311 is reduced to 14k.


CGS13 - Gated Comparator
Resistors RA and RB form the voltage divider that determines the gate output voltage. Use 1k for RB. When running off +/-15 volts use 1k8 for RA. When running off +/-12 volts, use RA = 1k5.

CGS31 - Digital Noise
While untested, the module should work on +/-12 volts.

CGS36 - Pulse Divider/Boolean Logic
VER1.3 PCBs have the upper part of the output dividers marked as RA on the PCB. These resistors are 1k8 for +/-15V operation and 1k5 for +/-12 volt operation. Likewise the two 1k8 resistors in the inverters should be 1k5 for 12 volt operation. The two 1k5 resistors in the OR and AND gates could probably be increased to 1k8 for 15 volt operation. Check your output voltages when you have assembled them. Ideally the voltages will swing between 0 volts and +5 volts. Some small variance either way is nothing to be concerned about.


simfonik

Based on the rear panel image for the MSU, it looks like I need the following potentiometers:

(10x) 313-1000F-100K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B100K/  ?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc9jR33G5hGO%252bcj2YiaooI6I%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-1K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B1K/?q s=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc7XUj8Kk%2f1Ts8uwZ%252baquuNs%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-1M
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B1M/?q s=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc7XUj8Kk%2f1TscFmzyHqZdKI%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-20K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B20K/? qs=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc3UoKTY4nCEoKqEqi3d3N6w%3d

(1x) 50k log .... can't seem to find this at Mouser or Jameco.

Does that look right? Any idea on the 50k log pot? dizzy


negativspace

50k logs @ Mouser - 313-1500f-50k


simfonik

negativspace wrote:
50k logs @ Mouser - 313-1500f-50k


w00t Thanks!


bkbirge

Can't wait to get started on a funky drummer and mini synth. Anyone got one of those shareable mouser project BOM's going yet? If not I'll see about putting a couple together, they make ordering (after the first time) so much easier.


Tall Midget

Hey Brian, I already posted one in the other thread, it's just an Excel spreadsheet but it works with mousers BOM import tool. It needs some work described below to it but it's mostly complete. The only things missing AFAIK are the 22k (25k) trimmer for the Serge Voltage Controlled Filter and the 22k-25k trim for the CGS VCO. I'm not even sure if the other trim-pots I specified are still in stock. That's all that's keeping me from starting the project are the trim-pots. I'm not sure if I made the changes for 12 volt operation listed above either. If someone were to make it a complete BOM that'd be really neat.

Tall Midget wrote:
I didn't include the knobs or jacks, too tired to add them or count them now but most of the parts are there I think. Potentiometers are Mouser Part #'s but I would order them from somewhere else other than mouser to save money. There are a few Digikey part # that aren't specifically listed as being from Digikey but if Mouser doesn't recognize a part number when you import it, odds are it's a Digikey part number.


Edit: Check out the updated BOM bkbirge posted on Page 3 of this thread.


Tall Midget

Also here's some of the parts needed for the Funky Drummer:

clarke68 wrote:
Gated Comparator Sequence pots are all 100k linear.

Here's all of the switches on the Funky Drummer:

Pulse Divider Reset - Mouser #633-FB15ANEP2
Note actual part number is 633-FB15ANEP2-xy, where x is the size (F = small, H = large) and y is the color (C = red, A = black, B = white) of the button cap. This part is pretty critical, as the hole in the panel is specifically sized for this switch. Good quality switch, tho...tested to 50k cycles.

Gated Comparator Manual Loop/Load - Mouser #633-M201901-RO
There are probably other switches that will fit here, just be sure you get one that's ON - OFF - (ON)

Digital Noise Clock & Gated Comparator Loop Enable - most any SPDT ON - ON will work, the mounting holes are 0.25 in. which seems typical. I used part #317236 from Jameco.



bkbirge

Cool, didn't know about the BOM import tool.


bkbirge

edit: found some BOM mistakes, took it down, will re-upload when I fix 'em.


simfonik

MSU panel arrived today. Looks great!

Now the impatient wait for everything else to arrive.


bkbirge

OK, here's the corrected BOM for the MiniSynth and FunkyDrummer using Mouser parts and mods for euro (+/-12v operation) put in. I just checked it and the parts are in stock but of course that can change any minute. Also some parts cannot be sourced from Mouser and have been noted accordingly as ebay or bridechamber finds.

As always when using someone else's BOM, do your own double checking. This is a riff off the one Tall Midget provided (thanks TM!) and your own build may require your own personal riffing.

Note: BOM parts are per pcb board, you'll need to double up on some boards (vca and vco) when building the mini synth.

Edit: got rid of the crazy expensive molex male connector, replaced with much cheaper one, saves a lot of $$, Re-download this if you are using an earlier version <[2]


bkbirge

...and here's a couple mouser projects that make ordering a LOT easier. They take the BOM from above so if you want different parts you'll need to go in and edit and hit the button to 'save as my own project'. And of course these are just the parts from the BOM that Mouser has, you'll still need to source some stuff from other places (bridechamber, ebay).

Funky Drummer, mouser costs $121.42USD+shipping
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=5e66 c16398

West Coast Mini Synth, mouser costs $215.07USD+shipping, includes both vco's and vca's
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=16d4 3ff73a


fate

The 3/16" Standoff , Mouser - 534-1895 - what thread are these?,

also how did you manage to stack them all?
I was assuming on long screw on the top most board that passes through all 3 standoffs, then a short screw that meets the first standoff nearest the backside of the panel?


clarke68

fate wrote:
The 3/16" Standoff , Mouser - 534-1895 - what thread are these?

Those are 4-40. It really doesn't matter as long as you have screws that match, I was just going for the smallest outside diameter that I could get.

I used short screws (probably .25"), but the tall standoffs (except for the ones that connect directly to the panel) are male/female:



Finding the parts you need is easier if you look at a Mouser catalog page:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/644/1977.pdf


simfonik

Mouser is out of stock on the 50k log pots.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=IfoOD9RoqaDxUm3GE%2 52bWt%2Fw%3D%3D

Are these the same thing (50K Audio 2741)?

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555


clarke68

simfonik wrote:
Are these the same thing (50K Audio 2741)?

Yup. Log = audio


negativspace





screaming goo yo w00t Guinness ftw!

Everything works perfectly except for the Lockhart folder, and I'm not sure what's wrong with it. It's not like there's a
lot there to go wrong. I'll work on debugging it later, I've checked all the obvious stuff with meter and 'scope, but to
no avail. The PWM pot will be replaced with the correct size pending my next Mouser order... I can't count, evidently.

The Serge VCF is definitely a winner.


lazerkind

Nice build negativespace love
I remember I had problems with my breadboard lockhart folder when i did that. It never sounded like a folder, more like a bizarre FSU amplifier having a bad day.
Although interesting, not quite what I was expecting. I guess I just have to bite the bullet on that one and get it fixed now...


negativspace

Thanks!

Weird FSU amp having a bad day is pretty close to what I'm getting, too. hmmm.....


clarke68

negativspace:
jawdrop
Wow! That looks awesome! Nice to finally see how one of these looks with the boards stuffed. Any panel wiring tips you want to give us would be much appreciated.

A bizarre FSU amplifier having a bad day isn't all bad, considering it's only 1/10 of the panel, but I'll be curious to hear of a solution if you find one.

Are you in a place where you can record some samples? Inquiring ears want to hear!


SMS303

We have a winner for fast building: Negativspace SlayerBadger!
Wow Jason that's fast woah


negativspace

Cheers, guys! w00t

I cheated a little and had the PCBs all stuffed before the panels even arrived... And fortunately for me, there were no mistakes to debug excepting possibly the Lockhart section. I did wire one pot (Serge VCF audio input) backwards, but I always do something like that. I'll dig down and fix it at some point, it just needs a wire swap.

When you're wiring the panel, go slowly and doublecheck your connections. You're not going to want to go debugging and making corrections once it's all done. Try to keep things as tidy as you can with wire ties, and make sure you cut the wire with enough slack that you can still manipulate the PCB stack once it's all put together. You don't want to have to cut wires in order to get to the solder-side of any of the 3 boards - in case you need to modify/debug. I did it so that all of my wiring runs over the top edge of the PCBs. I can flip all 3 boards up toward the top that way - almost as if I'd used hinged standoffs a-la the CGS Serge panels.

Sounds... I'd like to sort the Lockhart section first but I'll try. Unless I get sidetracked building the Minisynth... hihi


negativspace

Here's one sample, E350 audio into the Serge VCF and then into the Steiner VCF. (LP->LP, BP->BP, HP->HP.) Serge cutoff is modulated by an LFO and the Steiner cutoff is modulated by a 208 Random. With high resonance on both filters, it's an interesting effect as the various cutoffs are swept through each other. The really nasal sound is the Serge at high resonance. So sweet.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/cgs-msu-cascaded-vcfs[/s]


Monobass

negativspace wrote:


I'm quite sensitive on depth... looks like the smaller boards on the top could maybe be mounted over the empty panel at the bottom there somehow.
Also would those two main big boards fit side by side if you go for the L-shaped rail mounting method?


clarke68

Monobass wrote:
Also would those two main big boards fit side by side if you go for the L-shaped rail mounting method?

Yes they would. See this post:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=628383#628383


negativspace

Yeah, you could definitely make it shallower if you wanted to. It's just under 70mm deep as-shown, including the power cable. (Got a 75mm Skiff? You're good.)


ringstone

Hmmm.... I'm not completely sure that the switch specified in the BOMs for the USG's is correct. From Ken's DUSG page, and the schematic there, I think that a 3-position SPDT switch (ON-OFF-ON) is actually required. A SP3T switch switches one input terminal between 3 output terminals, a SPDT ON-OFF-ON switches two input terminals alternately to one output terminal, with the third position (centre OFF) switching neither...

In the case of the DUSG board, we have two terminals (MA and MB) alternately being switched to a third (MC or ground) in position 1 (up) and 3 (down) on the switch, while in position 2 (centre), neither MA or MB are connected to MC (ground)... note that Ken does state on his page a SP3T switch is required as well, but shows 2 switches with 3 terminals (SP3T switches have 6 terminals I believe).

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Of course the converse is also true for the SP3T - you can switch 3 input terminals alternately to one output terminal, which would work in this case, but it is redundant - as MC is ground anyway, the centre position is just connecting ground back to ground...


clarke68

I bought Mouser #633-M202402-RO for the Rise/Both/Fall switches in the Quad Slope. They better be right, they were pretty expensive! The have 6 terminals.


ringstone

clarke68 wrote:
I bought Mouser #633-M202402-RO for the Rise/Both/Fall switches in the Quad Slope. They better be right, they were pretty expensive! The have 6 terminals.


I've bought the SP3T switches before, and as you say, they're pretty expensive. Which is why I'm a little hesitant to just grab them without checking thoroughly first...

Cheers
Blair


ringstone

Note that the BOM listed on the DUSG page at Ken's site states SPDT switches as well (though on-off-on isn't specified). However, the rough build instructions at the top of the page mention 1P3T switches... it's quite confusing.

Blair


rico loverde

heres some of my DUSG build shots. Just gotta wire to the pcbs now.










negativspace

applause


clarke68

Nice looking build and all...but I'm jealous of your parts bins!
Quote:



Merry Christmas wiring!
Quote:



Great job so far, thanks for sharing!


ringstone

Looking good mate, let us know how you get on with the switch wiring...

I'm working on my MSU at the moment, going to see if I can replicate the issue negativspace was having with his Lockhart folder...

Cheers
Blair


regenbot

Looking good, wish i had jumped on the DUSG panel myself. Maybe there will be abother run someday.


clarke68

regenbot
I've got extras of the the Quad Slope (and other) panels...send me a PM if you're interested!


Veqtor

So, any clarity on the DUSG switches? Looks to me (studying the schematic) as if it is supposed to be single pole on-off-on switches. It seems as if the switch is used to switch out (by grounding) the incoming cv signal. At one setting (cv fall) the cv going to rise is switched out, with cv rise it's the opposite and with both none of them is switched out. Quite clever really but 1P3T seems overkill?! hmmm.....


iopop

You only need a single pole on-off-on for the DUSG switch. if you have a double pole, just use one side.

(Sometimes, I thought about buying only double pole switches to get a price break and be sure to have stuff at home).


MicroFi

The front panel on that West Coast Mini Synth looks wonderful.
A shame I can't solder ... and I guess it would be way too expensive (man hours) to have someone else build it for you, right?


clarke68

MicroFi wrote:
The front panel on that West Coast Mini Synth looks wonderful.

Thanks!

Having someone else build one for you would certainly be expensive, whether or not it's too expensive depends on how much money you have. hihi If you want to look in to it, the guy most people would recommend for the job is Todd over at The Sonic Workshop (although his site appears to be down at the moment).


negativspace

In addition to Todd, whose reputation is outstanding, I also do custom building in Euro format. If I were quoting someone a price to build the Mini Synth, I'd put it somewhere in the $7-800 range. (For parts, PCBs, and labor - everything but the panel.) It's a chunk of money, but if you think about what's in the module it's right on par with the retail market.

2x VCO - ~$350
1x DUSG - ~$225
2x VCA + mixer for sum out - ~$150
1x Ringmod - $75
Total - ~$800


rico loverde

So i finished my quad dusg (will post pics and some build tips later) and for the most part its working.

So 1 and 3 are acting weird and 2 and 4 are working perfect. A bit weird to me, that half of each one wroks great and the other half is screwy. On 1 the switch is messing with the fall and rate times depending where the switch position is. If switch is at rise the rise pot works, if at fall the fall pot works. When at both neither pot works. seriously, i just don't get it

3 is just wack, cant get any enevelope action off it. Im gonna take the rest the day off and check my panel wiring and solder points tomorrow...

2 and 4 are working great though, used an on,off,on switch and it works great. Sounds great as vco and is also a great envelope gen. I cant wait to get 1 and 3 working.


MicroFi

negativspace wrote:
In addition to Todd, whose reputation is outstanding, I also do custom building in Euro format. If I were quoting someone a price to build the Mini Synth, I'd put it somewhere in the $7-800 range. (For parts, PCBs, and labor - everything but the panel.) It's a chunk of money, but if you think about what's in the module it's right on par with the retail market.


It's interesting to know there are people who do custom building on commission on here.
And actually ... I'm positively surprised about the quote you made there. I thought it would've been a lot more!

I'll keep it in mind for after the Xmas period (read: for when I've got some $$$ again) screaming goo yo


fate

hrm im a little confused, I have all my pcbs, but it seems like my wave multiplier PCB seems a bit smaller in width than my synthacon filter/serge vcf. and the lockhart grider/lag fold is on another pcb, not sure how im gunna mount it now =/


ringstone

fate wrote:
hrm im a little confused, I have all my pcbs, but it seems like my wave multiplier PCB seems a bit smaller in width than my synthacon filter/serge vcf. and the lockhart grider/lag fold is on another pcb, not sure how im gunna mount it now =/


That's weird... The one you want is CGS29 - it has a number of spare holes for dev purposes on the top side. There are other wave folder and similar PCBs such as CGS38 so perhaps you have an extra PCB?

Cheers
Blair


clarke68

fate wrote:
hrm im a little confused, I have all my pcbs, but it seems like my wave multiplier PCB seems a bit smaller in width than my synthacon filter/serge vcf. and the lockhart grider/lag fold is on another pcb, not sure how im gunna mount it now =/


The PCBs you need for the MSU are:

CGS29
Wave Multiplier. The board is 6" x 2" and includes the Wave Multiplier, the Lockhart folder, and the Grinder.

CGS35
Synthacon VCF, called the "Steiner" on the panel. This board is 6" x 1"

CGS77
Serge '73 VCF, 6" x 2".

You can put them together like this:


..or, with brackets, like this:



clarke68

negativspace wrote:
If I were quoting someone a price to build the Mini Synth, I'd put it somewhere in the $7-800 range. (For parts, PCBs, and labor - everything but the panel.)
MicroFi wrote:
And actually ... I'm positively surprised about the quote you made there. I thought it would've been a lot more!


I agree...that sounds like a really good deal!


negativspace

Ok, fine. $1,000 it is. w00t

Admittedly I haven't built my Mini-Synth yet so that was a bit of a blind guess... but I don't think it's far off. There aren't many expensive parts on these boards. I'm just now beginning to stuff the PCBs, though, so I'll know exactly what's involved by the end of the year.


hv0190

Sorry for interrupting you guys, but as my pms don't seem to get through I'd like to ask here in public if all panels are sold or if there are any left.


Veqtor

So, given that we don't need the dual switch... what would be a suitable replacement?


clarke68

hv0190 wrote:
Sorry for interrupting you guys, but as my pms don't seem to get through I'd like to ask here in public if all panels are sold or if there are any left.

Yup, there are panels left. If PM isn't working, you can try me by email: clarke at robinsononline dot com.


negativspace

So I spent way too much time last night stuffing my Mini Synth PCBs... ended up going to bed at about 9 this morning. Dead Banana

But while doing all of that really... 'brain-neutral' work, I got to thinking about the final result of my labors. A Mini-Synth + MSU give you so many possibilities (even 2 complete voices, if you like) in 64hp. But while it has all of the major modules covered, some of the basics are completely neglected. There's no mixer, really, and no attenuators. No multiples, either, and since many of the modules had their extra inputs and input attenuators omitted to save space on the panels... well, you're going to need that kinda stuff to really get this thing patched up.

So I hatched the idea of a 16hp 'control' panel to complement this line. My sketch has 3 attenuators with the .75" knobs across the top ~third, a 3-input bipolar mixer with a unipolar output attenuator using 4x .5" knobs across the middle, and then 3 sets of 4 jacks for passive mults along the bottom. The only PCB this one would require is a CGS04 for the middle section, the others are passive and simply need to be wired at the panel.

Mathematically, it's also very convenient. 64 + 16 = 80, so add a Happy Ending kit with the 4hp uZeus and you completely fill the 84hp with a complete synthesizer.

Whatcha think? seriously, i just don't get it


ringstone

negativspace wrote:

So I hatched the idea of a 16hp 'control' panel to complement this line. My sketch has 3 attenuators with the .75" knobs across the top ~third, a 3-input bipolar mixer with a unipolar output attenuator using 4x .5" knobs across the middle, and then 3 sets of 4 jacks for passive mults along the bottom. The only PCB this one would require is a CGS04 for the middle section, the others are passive and simply need to be wired at the panel.

Mathematically, it's also very convenient. 64 + 16 = 80, so add a Happy Ending kit with the 4hp uZeus and you completely fill the 84hp with a complete synthesizer.

Whatcha think? seriously, i just don't get it


Huh, was just thinking last night how I would have to buy/build some attenuators/mults/mixers to complement these modules, so that is a big thumbs up from me!!! thumbs up Actually I need more utility modules full stop so I will probably get 4 of these all up...

Cheers
Blair


ringstone

Veqtor wrote:
So, given that we don't need the dual switch... what would be a suitable replacement?


I don't have a reference # (I just bought them off the shelf at Jaycar) but I believe that a 3 position SPDT switch, ON-OFF-ON, will be suitable.

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

I love the idea negativspace! My only thought is that you match the same design work as clarkes as id love it to match the other panels graphically. How cool will the minisynth, msu, quad dusg, quad lpg, Funky drummer, and this attenuator/mixer panel be. Total powerhouse of diy goodness.


clarke68

negativspace wrote:
Whatcha think? seriously, i just don't get it

Awesome idea! I'd be happy to:

1.) do it
2.) support you if you want to do it
3.) buy one off you if you want to do it without my support

Let me know!


scozbor

+1 for a Clarke designed utility panel. I'm using these panels as a self contained portable rig and will certainly need basic mixers, mults, vcas, etc.

It might not be as essential if you are using the panels as part of a bigger system though....


negativspace

I'd like to see you do it, it needs to be in your style and that's your domain. If you're willing, that's great. w00t


rico loverde

Id just like to say how much i love this damn community!


mono-poly

I'd love to see some 292 and 281 panels to smile


rico loverde

so I got 3 of 4 of the quad dusg's working, theres still one that is sort of working but its doing some weird shit that i dont get. for some reason when recieving a trigger or when self cycling the fall knob only works when the "fall" setting is selected on the rise/both/ fall switch. same with the rise, only works when rise is selected on the switch. when switched to both neither work...wtf? ive checked my wiring and everything is where it should be, its really baffling me...all other 3 work exactly as they should.

any ideas or thoughts would be awesome.


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
so I got 3 of 4 of the quad dusg's working, theres still one that is sort of working but its doing some weird shit that i dont get. for some reason when recieving a trigger or when self cycling the fall knob only works when the "fall" setting is selected on the rise/both/ fall switch. same with the rise, only works when rise is selected on the switch. when switched to both neither work...wtf? ive checked my wiring and everything is where it should be, its really baffling me...all other 3 work exactly as they should.

any ideas or thoughts would be awesome.


I would try disconnecting MA,MB, MC temporarily to see if this alleviates the issue (this should be the equivalent of the switch in centre or BOTH position). If it works, problem is with the switch or wiring thereof, otherwise, it's on the board somewhere...

Cheers
Blair


brother303

Hi,

negativspace wrote:
So I hatched the idea of a 16hp 'control' panel to complement this line. My sketch has 3 attenuators with the .75" knobs across the top ~third, a 3-input bipolar mixer with a unipolar output attenuator using 4x .5" knobs across the middle, and then 3 sets of 4 jacks for passive mults along the bottom. The only PCB this one would require is a CGS04 for the middle section, the others are passive and simply need to be wired at the panel.


Yeah,I like the idea. thumbs up

What about a simple inverter? Two jacks,in and out,a simple op-amp circuit on perfboard,that´s it.

And maybe a 5V voltage-source for generating offsets. One pot,one jack and some parts on perfboard,very simpel.

Cheers
Greg


brother303

...and yes,

one or two simple vcas always come in handy... hihi


negativspace

Well, the nice thing about the panel I had in mind is that you can fancy it up a little if you want - take the attenuators and add an opamp on stripboard as you say, makes them attenuverters. (My plan.)

Of course there's a lot of utility stuff that would really help out here but we've only got so many hp to work with. hihi


brother303

Hi mate,

negativspace wrote:
...take the attenuators and add an opamp on stripboard as you say, makes them attenuverters. (My plan.)


...or take the multiples and add an opamp to make them active and reverse one of the outs for inverting signals

Something like this: http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/pdf/RS230.pdf

Got the idea...Guinness ftw!



negativspace wrote:
Of course there's a lot of utility stuff that would really help out here but we've only got so many hp to work with. hihi


Right! Let´s see what Clarke can get out of 16hp. love

Cheers
Greg


negativspace

... or I suppose you could also use push-pull switchpots + opamps on the attenuators to make them bipolar but with full-muting. And buffer your mults, or make 2 sets horizontally with 1 in, 4 outs and an inverted out. Or whatever!

I like it, a panel that can be as much or as little as you want it to be. Looking forward to this! I've begun work on my Mini Synth now and I know I'm going to need it.


brother303

Hi,

negativspace wrote:
I like it, a panel that can be as much or as little as you want it to be...and I know I'm going to need it.


we're not worthy


simfonik

@negativspace – if it's readily accessible, would you mind taking a hi-res picture of the stuffed CGS35? I'm building mine today and it'd be helpful as an additional reference.


negativspace

Sure, that one sits on top of the stack. Easy to take pics. It's a pretty easy build, though, you shouldn't have problems.


simfonik

Thanks. I bought a parts kit from Todd Fletcher for each of the PCBs on the MSU build. I'm sorting resistors for CGS35 right now and this is what I have:


82R 1
330R 1
390R 1
1k 6
2k2 4
3k9 1
8k2 1
10k 1
47k 4
100k 1
180k 1
220k 3
390k 1
2M2 1

There are also 4x 470k resistors. I'm not sure what those are for. The only thing left for resistors in Ken Stone's part list is: "1k lin pot 1", "100k 25 turn trim 1", "100k lin pot 1 (2)".


simfonik

Got an answer from Todd on the (4) 470k resistors. Looks like there were just some extras in the bag. hihi


ringstone

There are different versions of the CGS boards, which have slightly different BOMs (Ken usually combines them), and in some cases there are off-board and even optional components as well... just follow the board overlay, checking the relevant CGS page for any build issues etc. and you should be right.

The only issue I have found so far is that there is a 330R resistor required for the Wave Multiplier board that's not in Ken's BOM... I was going to mention this before but it slipped my mind. Not an issue for me as I keep a full stock of resistors but might be an annoyance if you're putting a BOM into Mouser or similar... Ken uses a lot of 330R resistors so it's probably worth ordering a few extra if you're building CGS boards.

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

finally got all 4 dusg's running...




simfonik

Sounds great, Rico!


simfonik

My component kit for the CGS35 came with these capacitors:

1uF 50V ... assuming in place of 1uF 35V (4)
10uF 50V ... assuming in place of 10uF 35V (4)
47uF 35V ... assuming in place of 47uF 25V (2)

Are there any issues with using higher voltage capacitors?


wmonk

simfonik wrote:
My component kit for the CGS35 came with these capacitors:

1uF 50V ... assuming in place of 1uF 35V (4)
10uF 50V ... assuming in place of 10uF 35V (4)
47uF 35V ... assuming in place of 47uF 25V (2)

Are there any issues with using higher voltage capacitors?

Not at all! 8_)
These will work just fine.


simfonik

wmonk wrote:
simfonik wrote:
My component kit for the CGS35 came with these capacitors:

1uF 50V ... assuming in place of 1uF 35V (4)
10uF 50V ... assuming in place of 10uF 35V (4)
47uF 35V ... assuming in place of 47uF 25V (2)

Are there any issues with using higher voltage capacitors?

Not at all! 8_)
These will work just fine.


Thanks! Mr. Green


negativspace

Nice, Rico. Are we the first two, or are you other guys just holding out? I wanna see more!

I'll have a Mini-Synth finished in the next week, waiting for one last parts order from Mouser and then the wiring begins. Finished my second MSu last night. screaming goo yo


ringstone

I would be MUCH further along with these builds except
a) Xmas
b) I have a few other slightly more urgent things like power supplies to finish off lol
c) Xmas
d) Xmas

d'oh!

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

I've built 2 MSUs and 13 other modules in the last 2 weeks. (And stuffed the PCBs and panel for a Mini-Synth.) Granted I basically do this full-time, but still... I don't want excuses. Sleep when you're dead! zombie hihi


rico loverde

negativspace wrote:
Nice, Rico. Are we the first two, or are you other guys just holding out? I wanna see more!

I'll have a Mini-Synth finished in the next week, waiting for one last parts order from Mouser and then the wiring begins. Finished my second MSu last night. screaming goo yo
ive been going full tilt again with the building (and its the busiest time of the year for me work wise) Got the dusg done, mini synth boards stuffed (waiting on parts to finish) and built an rcd/scm w breakouts for a friend. sleep? who needs sleep?


negativspace

See, that's what I'm talking about.


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
I've built 2 MSUs and 13 other modules in the last 2 weeks. (And stuffed the PCBs and panel for a Mini-Synth.) Granted I basically do this full-time, but still... I don't want excuses. Sleep when you're dead! zombie hihi


Yes SAH!!! Please, there's no need to use the whip again... lol

Blair

BTW Rico, what did the problem with your DUSG end up being? I am probably going to do these next but it looks like there could be a few traps for unwary builders there, any tips would be gratefully received...


rico loverde

ringstone wrote:
negativspace wrote:
I've built 2 MSUs and 13 other modules in the last 2 weeks. (And stuffed the PCBs and panel for a Mini-Synth.) Granted I basically do this full-time, but still... I don't want excuses. Sleep when you're dead! zombie hihi


Yes SAH!!! Please, there's no need to use the whip again... lol

Blair

BTW Rico, what did the problem with your DUSG end up being? I am probably going to do these next but it looks like there could be a few traps for unwary builders there, any tips would be gratefully received...
Well, i built three of them at once ( 2 for the quad 1 for mini synth) i checked the switches and wiring and went over the board countless times and couldnt get it. So i swapped it out for the one i was gonna use on the mini synth. Tomorrow im gonna check for broken traces, wrong parts etc on the messed up one. Honestly though im having a hell of a time figuring it out. seriously, i just don't get it i plan on making a list of some stuff that gave me trouble.. Ill try to do that tomorrow as well.

Btw id like to thank Clarke again for the awesome panel, Ken and Serge for the great circuit designs, and Laurie for the wonderful part kits... thumbs up


simfonik

@negativspace - on CGS35, did you leave off the 2 diodes that are to the left and above the 2n2's? On Ken's site it states, "For use with +/-12 volt supplies, the two diodes marked with rings around their pads on the overlay should be replaced with links."

It seems pretty obvious those are the two to leave off, but it doesn't hurt to double check.


negativspace

ringstone wrote:

Yes SAH!!! Please, there's no need to use the whip again... lol


The Agonizer!


simfonik wrote:
on CGS35, did you leave off the 2 diodes that are to the left and above the 2n2's?


Yep, replace those two with wire links. I haven't tried it with all 8 installed to see what the difference is, I'm just following instructions. hihi


clarke68

negativspace wrote:
I've built 2 MSUs and 13 other modules in the last 2 weeks. (And stuffed the PCBs and panel for a Mini-Synth.)

rico loverde wrote:
ive been going full tilt again with the building (and its the busiest time of the year for me work wise) Got the dusg done, mini synth boards stuffed (waiting on parts to finish) and built an rcd/scm w breakouts for a friend.


You guys are real men. we're not worthy

I just finished a new synth case so I have somewhere to put all these new modules. I'm still woefully behind on Christmas, and have a bunch of LPG panels to ship out...I doubt I'll be finishing anything more until 2012.

Really awesome to hear the sounds you're making with these...looking forward to more!


bkbirge

clarke68 wrote:

fate wrote:
did you make the angled aluminum pieces that go on the standoffs?

I did. I made them from 1/2" L-bracket...available at any hardware store. It doesn't have to be L-bracket, just a flat piece of aluminum will work. Mark the holes and drill by hand. I'm going to post a few more pictures in the post above later on today.


Dumb question. I've gone to a couple hardware stores around here and can't seem to source this L bracket. They always point me to the roofing section and then when all I see is flimsy gutter type material I wander around and have yet to find it that way either. Is there a more common name that I can ask about when I get there?


rico loverde

bkbirge wrote:
clarke68 wrote:

fate wrote:
did you make the angled aluminum pieces that go on the standoffs?

I did. I made them from 1/2" L-bracket...available at any hardware store. It doesn't have to be L-bracket, just a flat piece of aluminum will work. Mark the holes and drill by hand. I'm going to post a few more pictures in the post above later on today.


Dumb question. I've gone to a couple hardware stores around here and can't seem to source this L bracket. They always point me to the roofing section and then when all I see is flimsy gutter type material I wander around and have yet to find it that way either. Is there a more common name that I can ask about when I get there?
i found mine at ace hardware, in the window section, they had the L shaped ones and flat ones, i used the flat one


clarke68

This is the stuff:
1/2 in. x 96 in. Aluminum Angle Bar

It's kind of hard to ask for by name. I usually find it in the hardware section (with the screws & nuts) next to the threaded rods and other long, metal products. As Rico said, flat works fine if you can find that...just avoid steel or anything so thick it'll be a pain to drill.


bkbirge

Awesome, thanks guys.


asterisk

follow up question to the L brackets while we are on that subject.
what do you guys use to drill holes in brackets and faceplates?
can you use a regular power drill with a special bit or something?

any tips would be great.


ringstone

asterisk wrote:
follow up question to the L brackets while we are on that subject.
what do you guys use to drill holes in brackets and faceplates?
can you use a regular power drill with a special bit or something?

any tips would be great.


A special bit is not really required, a good quality general purpose drill bit should be fine, aluminium is quite soft. If you check the drill bit when you buy it at the hardware store it should state whether it is suitable for aluminium. A drill press will generally do a more precise job but it's not essential. Though I wish I had used mine for the first brackets I did as I managed to do a pretty average job with the power drill lol A punch to mark the spots to drill is a handy accessory as well...

Cheers
Blair


simfonik

Two boards stuffed and one to go. I just noticed CGS29 has SMT components. Any suggestions on how to work with these?


rico loverde

simfonik wrote:
Two boards stuffed and one to go. I just noticed CGS29 has SMT components. Any suggestions on how to work with these?
For the smt stuff i usually use a pair of small needlenose pliers. I put a little solder on one pad and the with the pliers position it into to place a heat w the solder spot. Once in place i tack the other side.


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
Well, i built three of them at once ( 2 for the quad 1 for mini synth) i checked the switches and wiring and went over the board countless times and couldnt get it. So i swapped it out for the one i was gonna use on the mini synth. Tomorrow im gonna check for broken traces, wrong parts etc on the messed up one. Honestly though im having a hell of a time figuring it out. seriously, i just don't get it i plan on making a list of some stuff that gave me trouble.. Ill try to do that tomorrow as well.


I just stuffed my first DUSG board, and double checked it against the shots you had posted of yours. I was a little concerned I may have the transistors the wrong way round (mine are opposite to the board overlay) and I was happy to see that mine were the same as yours. With one exception - on one of your boards you seem to have one of the 2N4250/2N3906 transistors the other way around (same as the overlay), which might account for your problems with that board.

Cheers
Blair


clarke68

asterisk wrote:
what do you guys use to drill holes in brackets and faceplates?

any tips would be great.

I use a regular plug-in hand drill and the bits it came with...pretty sure mine is like a $40 Black & Decker or some other common brand.

The best trick I know is to use some kind of punch (I use a scratch awl and a hammer) to make a small starter dent...this will keep your drill from "walking". 1/8" is the size bit I use to drill holes in the brackets, but it's a good size to start with no matter what you need...drilling larger holes (like for pots) is easier with an 1/8" starter hole.


simfonik wrote:
I just noticed CGS29 has SMT components. Any suggestions on how to work with these?

Good tutorial here that illustrates the method Rico described above (and a few others):

http://www.infidigm.net/articles/solder/


iopop

I tried to use small tweezers for smd, but later found it easiest to just use the nail on my finger to put the part in place. The key is to be very sparse with how much solder you use.


rico loverde

@ringstone, i caught it and changed it. They should all be opposite of the board overlay.


simfonik

I finished stuffing PCBs on CGS35 and CGS77. Hoping to finish this project over the coming weekend. I'm not quite sure how to do the SMT components on CGS29 and I'm also wondering how to run power to the boards. Looking at the picture of the MSU negativspace finished, there doesn't appear to be 4 pin connectors on each of the boards. I'm assuming it can be setup to run off of a single power connector? hmmm.....


negativspace

I used the prototyping area on the CGS29 to set up a 'power bus' of sorts, from which I then powered all of the other modules.

The SMT caps are actually pretty easy - apply a dab of solder to one of the two pads per pair. Then grab a part with tweezers and while re-melting that dab of solder, slide it onto the pad. Then solder the other side, and afterwards go reflow the first side if necessary. You don't need a lot of solder. Check the back of the CGS35, there are SMT caps back there too.


simfonik

Whoops. Didn't realize I actually posted part of the same question last night. Sorry about that. Guess it was late. oops

Thanks for the tips on the SMT caps. I don't think there were SMT caps in my component kit for the CGS35. Are they essential?

If you can share any additional details on how you set up the 'power bus' on the CGS29 I'd be most grateful.


rico loverde

For power i wire all the boards together and on the last board use the standard MTA 156 connector. Mattson modular has some great mta156 to euro power cables that i use to connect to a standard euro power supply. The link is below...

http://www.mattsonminimodular.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_inf o&products_id=48&zenid=3efcc6e43010cef96ba7054bb7395509


negativspace

Well, there's already a ground trunk in the proto space so that's taken care of. For +v and -v, you just run some wires from the MTA156's pads over to the pins for the IC. Use wire to jumper a few of the 'IC' pads together so that you have 2 or 3 pads connected to +v and to -v. There's plenty of pins to work with (8) so you can do 3 each with a little empty space in between, which is how I did it. That gives you one spare connection, which is probably unnecessary but does no harm.

There are traces already on the board connecting the IN pads to adjacent pads. Run wires from the adjacent, connected pads out to each module's power input pads, and you're all good. (Oh yeah, and the grounds all to the ground trunk of course.)


negativspace

I got around to testing and calibrating MSU panel #2 tonight, and took the opportunity to record a little demo of the Steiner VCF.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/cgs-msu-steiner-filter[/s]


aL Pariah

Out of interest, how much roughly does it cost for all the parts for something like the West Coast Mini Synth or other modules featured here?



.....which all look gorgeous. we're not worthy


bkbirge

aL Pariah wrote:
Out of interest, how much roughly does it cost for all the parts for something like the West Coast Mini Synth or other modules featured here?



.....which all look gorgeous. we're not worthy


My parts list (on p.3 of thread I think) from Mouser says about $120 for the Funky Drummer and about $215 for the MiniSynth +shipping. That doesn't include PCB's from Ken Stone (cost me another $150 for enough for both modules) nor does it include a few specialty parts from bridechamber and/or ebay. Add the charge for each panel to it for your total cost. Unless you want to count your build time in there too.


rico loverde

heres a little demo of the DUSG, no other modules were used except some reverb from a Malekko Chiklet

This thing is great, Im really enjoying it.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/deadlover/dusg-demo-1[/s]

http://soundcloud.com/deadlover/dusg-demo-1


hv0190

As a kind of warming-up exercise (and because I know my pcbs for the Westcoast Minisynth and the Quadslope will not arrive before the end of January) I built a perfboard-version of the DUSG ... in fact it is only a SUSG, but it works fine, even if it looks more like a bird's nest!
As I didn't have any more space on my 4HP Eurorack panel I left out the 1v/oct input and the bipolar and AC outputs (though I tried them out and they seemd to work OK). Tracking was fair (ca. 2-3 octaves).
As for the price: the perfboard SUSG including all the hardware amounts to ca. 30 Euro (ca. $39), the Quadslope will cost me around 170$ - provided German customs won't intercept the pcbs, but even including customs fees it would only be around 185$ ... quite a good deal, I think Rockin' Banana!


Monobass

Are 47K pots acceptable replacements for the 50k lin and log pots?


ringstone

Monobass wrote:
Are 47K pots acceptable replacements for the 50k lin and log pots?


Generally most carbon pots have only 20% tolerance so I think you should be fine. You could always order a few more and pick the closest to 50k hihi

Cheers
Blair

rico loverde: Brilliant demo there - the (simulated) spring reverb was spot on too!


ringstone

Got back into building after Xmas, but this MSU has to be the most disaster-prone project I've ever built very frustrating First off the Steiner filter board ended up with numerous problems (all my fault - don't build when you aren't feeling well!) but I seem to have ironed most if not all of them out now. After building the Wave Multiplier board only the Grinder was working (and I'm not 100% sure it's correct). I've just diagnosed the issue with the Lockhardt - it turned out that the board I have is missing a connection to the negative rail from the 15k resistor on the 2N3904 - connected that and it sprang into life. Still nothing from the Wave Multiplier though meh

At least the Serge filter worked first up!

Cheers
Blair


Monobass

ringstone, that doesn't fill me with confidence for my build! eek! 8_)


ringstone

Monobass wrote:
ringstone, that doesn't fill me with confidence for my build! eek! 8_)


Oh, I'm sure it's just me hihi I made a lot of mistakes stuffing these boards, and this was just compounded by one PCB error (or what appears to be). The rest will probably go fine as they usually do...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: And my wave multiplier is working now. It was a bad batch of CA3080 - fortunately I did have some good ones from another supplier. Gotta be careful out there kids!


clarke68

ringstone wrote:
I've just diagnosed the issue with the Lockhardt - it turned out that the board I have is missing a connection to the negative rail from the 15k resistor on the 2N3904 - connected that and it sprang into life.

Sorry to hear about the troubles. Which version of CGS29 do you have? Did you let Ken know about the problem with the missing negative rail connection?


ringstone

clarke68 wrote:
ringstone wrote:
I've just diagnosed the issue with the Lockhardt - it turned out that the board I have is missing a connection to the negative rail from the 15k resistor on the 2N3904 - connected that and it sprang into life.

Sorry to hear about the troubles. Which version of CGS29 do you have? Did you let Ken know about the problem with the missing negative rail connection?


This was a V2.1 board, here is a close-up of the top left of the board with the disconnected pad circled:


(Hopefully this is ok to post here, if you see this Ken and it's not, please PM me and I'll remove it ASAP).

I've only diagnosed this today and wanted to be 110% sure it wasn't my stuff up, I will email Ken tomorrow as it's pretty late here now.

Anyway, these are not problems, they're challenges lol

Cheers
Blair


bkbirge

Stuffed all PCB's for the funky drummer, now comes the difficult part, wiring up the i/o to the panel and then troubleshooting my inevitable mistakes.


negativspace

I'll pull mine out of the rack here shortly and doublecheck that pad...


Monobass

I'm going with these Malekko/Livewire style knobs from Small Bear.




clarke68

Looks awesome! thumbs up


Monobass

as do the panels, really great work clarke screaming goo yo


negativspace

Blair,

That resistor is definitely not connected to -v, and definitely should be according to the schematic. Clearly an error in the PCB layout.

It's definitely doing what it should be doing now, too. SlayerBadger!

(Sad thing is, I went over this section of the PCB like twice myself and didn't catch that.)


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
Blair,

That resistor is definitely not connected to -v, and definitely should be according to the schematic. Clearly an error in the PCB layout.

It's definitely doing what it should be doing now, too. SlayerBadger!

(Sad thing is, I went over this section of the PCB like twice myself and didn't catch that.)


w00t Glad to help!

Cheers
Blair


simfonik

ringstone wrote:
clarke68 wrote:
ringstone wrote:
I've just diagnosed the issue with the Lockhardt - it turned out that the board I have is missing a connection to the negative rail from the 15k resistor on the 2N3904 - connected that and it sprang into life.

Sorry to hear about the troubles. Which version of CGS29 do you have? Did you let Ken know about the problem with the missing negative rail connection?


This was a V2.1 board, here is a close-up of the top left of the board with the disconnected pad circled:


(Hopefully this is ok to post here, if you see this Ken and it's not, please PM me and I'll remove it ASAP).

I've only diagnosed this today and wanted to be 110% sure it wasn't my stuff up, I will email Ken tomorrow as it's pretty late here now.

Anyway, these are not problems, they're challenges lol

Cheers
Blair


Can you illustrate how you resolved this?


negativspace

All you need to do is connect the pad circled in red to the -V rail. One of the '-VE' pad just up above it should work fine.


simfonik

Thanks. That's what I was thinking.

SMT turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be. Thanks again for the tips on how to do that.


bkbirge

Started the panel wiring on the funky drummer this weekend and I think I fell down the rabbit hole. Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.

I chose to use some 28 gauge ribbon I had lying around for most of the connections from the pcb boards, saves a lot of time from my usual method of measuring out hook up wire, cutting it on both ends, tinning it, and not misplacing it before use. Time will tell how sturdy it is, not usually a fan of ribbon. If you are doing the same make sure you use the strain relief holes on the CGS PCB's as described on Ken's site.

For anyone using the Mouser BOM for the FunkyDrummer that I posted on page 3 or 4, there are few parts missing... you'll need some more 1.8k ohm resistors, another 557 transistor, a 0.47uf cap, and the proper standoffs (thought I put those in the BOM but I don't have 'em so I guess not).

Also seriously thinking about getting a special nut driver for those kobi nuts. My panel now has that trendy 'distressed' look in a couple places.


rico loverde

bkbirge wrote:
Started the panel wiring on the funky drummer this weekend and I think I fell down the rabbit hole. Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.

I chose to use some 28 gauge ribbon I had lying around for most of the connections from the pcb boards, saves a lot of time from my usual method of measuring out hook up wire, cutting it on both ends, tinning it, and not misplacing it before use. Time will tell how sturdy it is, not usually a fan of ribbon. If you are doing the same make sure you use the strain relief holes on the CGS PCB's as described on Ken's site.

For anyone using the Mouser BOM for the FunkyDrummer that I posted on page 3 or 4, there are few parts missing... you'll need some more 1.8k ohm resistors, another 557 transistor, a 0.47uf cap, and the proper standoffs (thought I put those in the BOM but I don't have 'em so I guess not).

Also seriously thinking about getting a special nut driver for those kobi nuts. My panel now has that trendy 'distressed' look in a couple places.
im about to start mine... this one looks like it will be a killer. would love to see some pics of your wiring as u go...


bkbirge

rico loverde wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
... FunkyDrummer ...
im about to start mine... this one looks like it will be a killer. would love to see some pics of your wiring as u go...


My wiring is a far cry from the pro's I've seen post here but I'll post a pic when I get a chance.



Monobass

Is there any potential for crosstalk in a ribbon?

like I was reading how when computer ribbons went from IDE to ATA the ATA cables had double the wires, but only because they were alternately interleaved with grounds as a shield.

I appreciate 21st century computers and 20th century synth modules are not quite the same use case smile


ringstone

bkbirge wrote:
Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.


I use the small square block-type sockets, this makes it quite easy to twist all the grounds 90 degrees the same way and run a heavy gauge bare wire through them all in one go. It's a pre-tinned 22 AWG copper wire I buy on a spool. Each "line" gets connected this way, then all are tied together and soldered. The various ground wires from all the individual boards are also run to this as well. Gives the sockets some degree of mechanical bracing as well which ensures they don't go far even if the panel nut loosens.

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

Yep, I do it the same way. Bus wire is a lifesaver.


rico loverde

boards are populated, im all set to go except for the jacks which should be here any day now. below are pics of the quad LPG and the Mini synth. the mini synth is a monster!!! its a touch over 3.25 inches deep. the mini synth is with standoffs, i used velcro and standoffs on the QLPG and worked really well. very secure and way easier. the QLPG is just under 2 inches deep. i could prob get it down to 1.5 if I had the right standoffs..

mini synth









quad lpg






clarke68

rico loverde wrote:
It may be a mini synth up front, but its a maxi synth behind the panel! 8_)

Nice job...much respect! we're not worthy


rico loverde wrote:
Now that is awesome. I'm all in on velcro after this.


bkbirge

Funky Drummer wiring so far...






simfonik

Clarke, is this what you used between the PCBs and the L-brackets (as seen on page 4)?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/PC104-SS/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMtzcnMBgC2bs6BJGZuB0hh0mw7X7jQZucM%3d


simfonik

I'm wiring CGS35 (ver1.3) right now for the MSU build. Looking at the back of the frequency potentiometer (same as what I'm using), and comparing to the wiring diagram on Ken's site, which terminal gets the red wire? Is it the one on the side of the pot that has the notch or the opposite?


clarke68

simfonik wrote:
Clarke, is this what you used between the PCBs and the L-brackets (as seen on page 4)?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/PC104-SS/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMtzcnMBgC2bs6BJGZuB0hh0mw7X7jQZucM%3d

I used regular female/female standoffs between the bracket and PCB, but male/female standoffs between the "layers" of PCBs.

That's kind of cumbersome to describe, but the details of my build don't particularly matter...the fact that you figured out that at least one set of male/female standoffs makes construction easier tells me that you are well on your way.


simfonik wrote:
which terminal gets the red wire? Is it the one on the side of the pot that has the notch or the opposite?

I'm not sure which side of your pots has the notch, but according to Ken's wiring diagram, the red wire goes to the "clockwise" side of the pot.


bensaddiction

@simfonik - bloody hell those standoffs are a rip off! is that each?


Try looking here - http://www.futurlec.com/Hardware.shtml range between $1.90-3.20 per pack of 12.

Although Futurlec don't carry the built-in male screw ones, I was hoping somebody might know of some "butless" m3 screws in existence? Otherwise I'll have to buy those overpriced ones


ringstone

bensaddiction wrote:
@simfonik - bloody hell those standoffs are a rip off! is that each?


Try looking here - http://www.futurlec.com/Hardware.shtml range between $1.90-3.20 per pack of 12.

Although Futurlec don't carry the built-in male screw ones, I was hoping somebody might know of some "butless" m3 screws in existence? Otherwise I'll have to buy those overpriced ones


Not sure what you mean by "buttless"?

I buy most of this sort of stuff direct from Hong Kong/China ebayers, it's usually the same gear without several distributors making a cut on it...

Cheers
Blair


bensaddiction

thanks for that ringstone! Just found some 10 packs of male/female for about $3.50 AUD with free postage on ebay

Thats quite a difference vs $8.51 each at Mouser


ringstone

bensaddiction wrote:
thanks for that ringstone! Just found some 10 packs of male/female for about $3.50 AUD with free postage on ebay

Thats quite a difference vs $8.51 each at Mouser


Oh, no worries... there are a few of those ebay stores that are a little dodgy (I had some bad chips recently) but for things like this they are ok.

This sort of stuff I usually buy from wonderco_buy, but just recently I bought a couple of nylon hardware kits from electronics-salon - good quality at a good price. And I buy a fair bit from Tayda http://www.taydaelectronics.com/ - including a lot of pots - it's often more cost-effective if you're only getting a few things to buy from their ebay store.

Cheers
Blair


simfonik

Oh wow, you're not kidding on the price. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out.

@Clarke, thanks that helps! Mr. Green


Another question on the MSU build... for CGS29, did you change the resistor values that are displayed in the diagram coming off of the Lockhart Folds pot?


jbaken

Hey, so I'm trying to sub-out the LM394 for the VCA/VCO and was wondering if it would be possible to use a JFET LSK389 instead of something like the SSM2210 which is expensive and harder to find.. thoughts?


msprigings

Has anyone tried the Serge Extended ADSR in Euro?


ringstone

msprigings wrote:
Has anyone tried the Serge Extended ADSR in Euk
ro?


Yes, I have been hoping our talented friend Clarke might consider doing a panel for these someday...


msprigings

How did you mount if it you don't mind me asking? I think the PCB is 6" which would be pretty deep I thought it might be a pretty cool dual type thing. The 1v/Oct input is quite cool as well. And yes a panel would be cool smile


iopop

Having the Mini Synth pcbs sandwiched as per rico loverde's build, will there be any trouble mounting such a module in a Doepfer LC case?

The data sheet for LC-9 say, "90 mm in the power supply area (bottom right), resp. approx. 110 mm in the remaining area". 110mm => 4.33" so on paper its possible. Im all new to euro and for this project I really need to buy a commercial case.


rico loverde

iopop wrote:
Having the Mini Synth pcbs sandwiched as per rico loverde's build, will there be any trouble mounting such a module in a Doepfer LC case?

The data sheet for LC-9 say, "90 mm in the power supply area (bottom right), resp. approx. 110 mm in the remaining area". 110mm => 4.33" so on paper its possible. Im all new to euro and for this project I really need to buy a commercial case.
its pretty deep, you could prob shave off a bit by using smaller standoffs, i posted the depth of mine somewhere, i think in the pics in this thread


iopop

Yup, 3.25" which is 82.55mm. Was that from panel to pcb or panel to highest component?


rico loverde

iopop wrote:
Yup, 3.25" which is 82.55mm. Was that from panel to pcb or panel to highest component?
yes it was


obviousless

ringstone wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.


I use the small square block-type sockets, this makes it quite easy to twist all the grounds 90 degrees the same way and run a heavy gauge bare wire through them all in one go. It's a pre-tinned 22 AWG copper wire I buy on a spool. Each "line" gets connected this way, then all are tied together and soldered. The various ground wires from all the individual boards are also run to this as well. Gives the sockets some degree of mechanical bracing as well which ensures they don't go far even if the panel nut loosens.

Cheers
Blair


Could you possibly take a picture of this type of wiring? You just loop through each ground with a bare, tinned wire and then solder all after you have looped through?


ringstone

obviousless wrote:
ringstone wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.


I use the small square block-type sockets, this makes it quite easy to twist all the grounds 90 degrees the same way and run a heavy gauge bare wire through them all in one go. It's a pre-tinned 22 AWG copper wire I buy on a spool. Each "line" gets connected this way, then all are tied together and soldered. The various ground wires from all the individual boards are also run to this as well. Gives the sockets some degree of mechanical bracing as well which ensures they don't go far even if the panel nut loosens.

Cheers
Blair


Could you possibly take a picture of this type of wiring? You just loop through each ground with a bare, tinned wire and then solder all after you have looped through?


That's pretty much it. If you use a thick enough gauge wire it is pretty rigid, and I use one that is already pre-tinned when I buy it. Would post a pic but I am holidays in sunny Queensland this week a long way away from my gear nanners


hv0190

obviousless wrote:
ringstone wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.


I use the small square block-type sockets, this makes it quite easy to twist all the grounds 90 degrees the same way and run a heavy gauge bare wire through them all in one go. It's a pre-tinned 22 AWG copper wire I buy on a spool. Each "line" gets connected this way, then all are tied together and soldered. The various ground wires from all the individual boards are also run to this as well. Gives the sockets some degree of mechanical bracing as well which ensures they don't go far even if the panel nut loosens.

Cheers
Blair


Could you possibly take a picture of this type of wiring? You just loop through each ground with a bare, tinned wire and then solder all after you have looped through?


... do you mean like this?
(kinda sloppy first attempt)


obviousless

Ah, I see now. Thanks for the pixels! Enjoy your holiday. thumbs up


hv0190

Sorry mate, but I'm hv0190, not ringstone Mr. Green
I just thought this might be what he was thinking of ...
Oh - I wish I was on holiday right now Guinness ftw!


simfonik

hv0190 wrote:
obviousless wrote:
ringstone wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.


I use the small square block-type sockets, this makes it quite easy to twist all the grounds 90 degrees the same way and run a heavy gauge bare wire through them all in one go. It's a pre-tinned 22 AWG copper wire I buy on a spool. Each "line" gets connected this way, then all are tied together and soldered. The various ground wires from all the individual boards are also run to this as well. Gives the sockets some degree of mechanical bracing as well which ensures they don't go far even if the panel nut loosens.

Cheers
Blair


Could you possibly take a picture of this type of wiring? You just loop through each ground with a bare, tinned wire and then solder all after you have looped through?


... do you mean like this?
(kinda sloppy first attempt)


Dumb question... which terminal on those Alpha pots is CW (re: CGS29 wiring diagram)? I'm pretty sure it's the side w/ the notch. Doesn't hurt to double check though.


negativspace

Alpha pots are easy, if you orient by the text on the back of the pot the lugs are (CW)ALPHA(CCW).


simfonik

(CW)ALPHA(CCW) or (ʍɔɔ)ɐɥdןɐ(ʍɔ) is just what I was looking for. Thanks! applause


simfonik

I finished my MSU... kind of. Plugged it in for a test before mounting the PCBs to brackets. I got sound from the Lockhart Grinder and the Wave Multiplier. Moved on to the Steiner, patched CV In and Out and I got FUUUCCKKKK!!! d'oh!


slimenbones

So has anyone finished and made a video of these in action yet?


frozenkore

Hey, just as heads up, and I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but anyone order Mouser - 311-1902F from mouser for your Funky Drummer. If you use the online filter system and filter for 100k, the spec will say 100k, but the part number and the actual item says, and is, 1k. To make matters worse, if you take the part number 311-1902F-100K for the 100k, the spec says it's 10k Dead Banana. Trust the part number not the spec.


frozenkore

Update: I just got off web chat with them. They are sending me a new set of the correct pots for free and they are going to have the warehouse fix the part number to spec info. I'd still check the number though wink.


msprigings

I wanted to do the extended ADSR but 6" is too deep for my case. Soo I'm thinking making a larger module with 2 Serge ADSRs and 2 CGS VCA as they seem to mesh well and fit behind a eurorack panel somehow or another.

Anyone see any problems doing that?


bkbirge

Thanks for sharing that, I need to check what I have, I didn't put 'em on the meter before I fixed 'em on the panel.

frozenkore wrote:
Hey, just as heads up, and I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but anyone order Mouser - 311-1902F from mouser for your Funky Drummer. If you use the online filter system and filter for 100k, the spec will say 100k, but the part number and the actual item says, and is, 1k. To make matters worse, if you take the part number 311-1902F-100K for the 100k, the spec says it's 10k Dead Banana. Trust the part number not the spec.



frozenkore

Alright, I have a couple wiring questions on the funky drummer. I figure I'll get them all out before I get the chance to screw it up.

Gated Comparator:
The Manual Loop switch:

1) On the diagram from Ken's site, it says to wire one to +VE. I'm assuming that is the one at the end of the board by the LM393? The loop enable switch is also wired to that spot. Is that okay?

2) The next lead goes to a 15k resistor, then to pin 2 of the LM393. Do that literally mean connect it to the same pad as the second pin of the LM393?

3) The last goes to 8th output jack. I'm assuming I can just connect it directly to the jack where the jack connects to the board? I guess I don't know what can be linked together and what cannot.

4) The LED goes to 0V LED Return. Can I just connect this to any ground?

I'll have questions regarding the mixer as I'll be using the other part of the Digital Noise board for that, but I'm not there yet...

On the Digital Noise board:

The notes say if you're using switched jacks to follow the schematic. Speed CV In and External Clock In are the only two that have directions for all three parts of the jack. Does that mean everything else just uses the tip and the sleeve is left unconnected?

On the Pulse Divider board:

Reset switch goes to RST and ground?


Sorry for the noobish questions, but I'm good at following directions but when they're slightly vague, I don't do well, especially when I'm still new to the electronics aspect of this.

Thanks in advance!


keninverse

Seems I missed the CGS DUSG pcb train. Ken seems to be out of them and I haven't heard back from him on whether these will be restocked. Long shot...but anyone know where I can pick two up?


clarke68

keninverse wrote:
Seems I missed the CGS DUSG pcb train. Ken seems to be out of them and I haven't heard back from him on whether these will be restocked. Long shot...but anyone know where I can pick two up?

Ken still has it listed as a regularly stocked PCB...he'll probably have more in a few weeks.


@ frozenkore: If you haven't already, you might try checking/asking in the Best of CGS Build Thread, as the Funky Drummer is functionally identical to the left half of Zthee's Sequencer panel.


frozenkore

clarke68 wrote:
@ frozenkore: If you haven't already, you might try checking/asking in the Best of CGS Build Thread, as the Funky Drummer is functionally identical to the left half of Zthee's Sequencer panel.


I hadn't, I'll check that out, thanks!


appliancide

I bet he will restock them. Also, Ken is pretty good about returning email, so you will probably hear for sure soon.


iopop

I asked him about some other "out of stock" PCBs last week and he said "about a month?". So, just hang in there any they come back. Plus they are part of the BOG package so they are definitely not the last ones produces.


keninverse

Sweet...Thanks guys


the bad producer

Got my panels (thanks clarke!)

Just wondering, anyone building these with bananas? any forseeable issues?


clarke68

the bad producer wrote:
anyone building these with bananas? any forseeable issues?

To my knowledge, no one has tried it yet. If you're using the same bananas I have around (Emerson/Johnson), they take up about the same amount of space behind the panel as the 3.5mm jacks the panels are designed for, so there shouldn't be any problems there. Of course you'll need to drill out the mounting holes for them.

I had a normalized connection in mind for the mixer on the West Coast Mini Synth, but I think that's it on the panels you have. I'd love to hear/see how it goes...post some pics once you get going!


the bad producer

thanks clarke, I reckon I'll try it, if I did use 3.5mm sockets the ones I prefer are 8mm holes anyway... I've got pretty much all I need (I think) to get going this weekend!


fate

Does anyone have more details photos of the CGS MSU wiring? I'm a little confused very frustrating


ringstone

fate wrote:
Does anyone have more details photos of the CGS MSU wiring? I'm a little confused very frustrating


What part are you having trouble with? I'll try and take you through it...

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

I followed Ken's diagrams pretty faithfully, they're good.


fate

i didn't find the diagrams til yesterday! thank you though - im having a bit of trouble though with a part. I ordered kits off of bridechamber for these, and as it stands I have most of the pcbs stuffed, but, I have 1 component that is a blue block labeled 1k250, I'm not sure if this would be 100n capacitor or not or if i need something else

-edit- i think i figured it out to be the 100n component!


fate

how are the power connections made from module to module, and which is the final module to put the connector on to make it to a doepfer ribbon cable? - sorry for the stupid questions!


negativspace



I stack 'em like this, you can see the (very blurry) power connector there on the CGS29. Head over to the MMM store and pick up a couple of the 4P->Euro power cables George sells for your power connections.

I used the perfboard area on the CGS29 to make a little power distribution bus, and then ran wire from there to the other 2 modules.


rico loverde

fate wrote:
how are the power connections made from module to module, and which is the final module to put the connector on to make it to a doepfer ribbon cable? - sorry for the stupid questions!
i think this has been discussed earlier in this thread. i just wired from module to module, +12 to +12, -12 to -12, etc etc

On the last module I used one of the Mattson Modular .156 to euro cables he sells.


ringstone

Does anybody know what value the VC Sens pot on the Gated Comparator (Funky Drummer panel) should be? I have used 100k linear in line with most of the other CV inputs but I'm getting some interaction with the Sense pot when there is no CV in...

It took me a while to get my head around what the Gated Comparator does, at first I wasn't sure if mine was working correctly. I will write up a screed when I'm done describing how it works and how I wired this up as there are some shortcuts you can take.

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Well, after I worked all this out I found I had re-invented the wheel, it was already over in the "Best of CGS" thread. Wiring for the gated comparator using the mixer on the Digital Noise board:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17446&postdays=0&pos torder=asc&start=318

Note that purple wire on the Range pot goes to BOTH wiper and CCW.

I added a minor mod as follows - replaced the SPDT Loop Enable switch with a DPDT switch. One pole is wired as before, the other pole switches the input from the IN jack. That way both the loop input and In don't run into the comparator at the same time, as this just tends to fill the buffer up - you switch between them instead. Also when using the Manual Loop switch, you can loop the active buffer easily. Just flip the Manual Loop switch, then the Loop Enable switch, and the current contents of the buffer loop around.

Also, I ended up wiring the switched side of the Ext Clock jack on the Digital Noise to ground, as I was getting some jitter when the Switch was in the Ext position with no clock input. This will switch the noise off. Although it might seem redundant to have a switch for Int/Ext clock since we can use switched jacks in Euro format, I'm glad Clarke did it that way because you can switch back and forth between 2 different clocks.

Finally, the Reset switch is wired to +ve, first look at the schematic on the CGS site seemed to indicate it was ground. Don't know whether this was amended in between the time I first looked at it and when I checked, or whether it was lack of sleep!


ringstone

Oh! And before I forget - when testing the gated comparator: MAKE SURE YOU USE A NICE CLEAN SQUARE WAVE CLOCK! There is another comparator on the clock input that is supposed to clean it up but I found it wasn't completely effective, I had a clock that was too hot (Cwejman VCO) and it was clipping and causing all sorts of odd behaviour - skipping and occasional double speed steps for example.

Testing afterwards I found the clock input can be "fooled" with triangle/saw waves etc into producing all sorts of interesting semi-regular rhythmic patterns. So, a happy accident in the long run!

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

wiring up my minisynth, this one is hard. so much wiring in such a tight space. so far i have the 2 vcos and 1/2 the dusg done








rico loverde

well i got it wired and tried it out. most of it is working. 1 vco and half of the dusg is not working. waah this particular dusg has given me hell. half has always worked and the other half hasn't.

I think ill trouble shoot it tomorrow, its gonna be a total nightmare though as its so tightly packed with wires.


negativspace

I'm planning to tackle mine piecemeal, 2 VCOs to start and once they're debugged it'll be on to the DUSG and so on. I finally found time in amongst all of my projects to get some rails cut and drilled, so I'm nearly out of excuses. zombie


ringstone

Yep, I'll be onto my Mini Synth next too. Put it off until the end as I need to match some transistors and diodes (as well as it being the biggest build of the lot). eek!

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

negativspace wrote:
I'm planning to tackle mine piecemeal, 2 VCOs to start and once they're debugged it'll be on to the DUSG and so on. I finally found time in amongst all of my projects to get some rails cut and drilled, so I'm nearly out of excuses. zombie
i should have done it that way, i was feeling ambitious. Ill prob end up having to unwire a bunch to trouble shoot it. Im gonna redo the power wiring as well because I'm getting a lot of bleed though between the modules. I daisy chained them and instead I'm gonna use the cgs power board...


negativspace

Hmm, part of the reason for doing the VCOs first is that I planned to use one power connection for those 2 modules and one for the rest of the panel. You suppose I should isolate them even further than that?

Boards are all fully stuffed, it's just a matter of assembly at this stage. Maybe I should just dive in...


rico loverde

One of my vcos isnt working so i cant really say, but if I plug my working vco to my mixer i can hear the dusg in it and vice versa. same with the ring mod.


rico loverde

so i got the both vcos, the dusg, both vcas, and ring mod working but shit is acting weird.

for one, my output on the vcos seems really low esp when compared to my euro stuff. and the sine to saw output is even lower than the saw or square outs.

theres really weird signal bleed all over the place. like if i have the saw out on vco 2 patched to my speakers and i touch the saw out jack on vcos 1 i can hear vco 1 even when nothing is patched at all.

my ring mod works but the ics are getting really hot.

on the vcas if i wiggle the output jack for either channel the volume increases dramatically.

none of the boards share grounds between one another and today i rewired the power to one of the power bus boards cgs makes. I'm kinda over it for now, as i have no idea where to begin. little frustrated i must say, as everything looks right.

any thoughts are appreciated


rico loverde

soooo, i realized i had made a really dumb mistake. i recently got some new jacks and didn't realize i had wired everything wrong with them. total dumbs hit moment but i swapped everything and everything is working great now except the ring mod. the ring mod won't work, and the ics are still really damn hot. i saw on Kens page that the 0v pad by the unicorn is actually -12 so i wired the ground of another 0v spot. still no go though. still very hot ics. at this point I've probably fried them...

@Negativspace, let me know when you get your ring mod going. id love to compare a few things with you...

the vcos are awesome though!!!!


negativspace

Awesome, I'm glad you found the issue! I love it when it turns out to be a total dumbshit thing - usually means it's correspondingly easy to fix. hihi

I'll get the thing started soon, I just finished up the last of the MSU panels I've been commissioned to build. Might be a little while before I get to the ringmod, though, I've planned that one for last.


Monobass

great news Rico, I know those sorts of mistakes are always very d'oh!
but when they solve most problems in one fell swoop it's w00t

one day I'll have time to start my MSU..


msprigings

I noticed reading Ken's docs about that the Serge VCF has a LED available. I'm wondering assuming I can drill the hole through Clarke's awesome panel without screwing it up how hard is to implement a big ass Pittsburgh VILFO sized LED on there. I love me some blinking lights. I'd love to implement more LEDs but my knowledge is pretty limited.


Monobass

is the led to show clipping of the input? could be very useful.


rico loverde

well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.




bleeps

That's so awesome. All the builds in this thread are inspiring. Congrats!


msprigings

Rico love what I'm hearing kinda makes me wanna do a quad slope....

Monobass:
here's what Ken says about the LED on the doc page:
Quote:
The LD connection can be connected to one of the outputs to give a visible indication of an output signal


I'm not sure if shows clipping exactly but you would get some indication.


rico loverde

thanks guys!! the quad slope is super fun. i was blown away by how cool it is.


negativspace

msprigings wrote:
I noticed reading Ken's docs about that the Serge VCF has a LED available. I'm wondering assuming I can drill the hole through Clarke's awesome panel without screwing it up how hard is to implement a big ass Pittsburgh VILFO sized LED on there.


Might be worth hooking up an LED on wires so you can see what it does before you drill anything. You may find it kinda useless, I rarely want LEDs on my filters. (LPGs, totally different story...)


msprigings

Yeah having 2 on my Thomas White LPGs sure would be cool. I wonder how difficult that is.


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.


Looks great! Do you have your USG's normalled, with mine I have to patch Trig Out->Trig In to cycle but yours seem to cycling without this... hmmm.....

I considered doing this but couldn't work out a way to de-normal them if I wanted to use In apart from using a dummy plug.

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

ringstone wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.


Looks great! Do you have your USG's normalled, with mine I have to patch Trig Out->Trig In to cycle but yours seem to cycling without this... hmmm.....

I considered doing this but couldn't work out a way to de-normal them if I wanted to use In apart from using a dummy plug.

Cheers
Blair
on the dual USG i do have the trigger out to trigger normalled, i tried the same with the minisynth and i cant get it to work, seriously, i just don't get it its wired the same as the dual...


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
ringstone wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.


Looks great! Do you have your USG's normalled, with mine I have to patch Trig Out->Trig In to cycle but yours seem to cycling without this... hmmm.....

I considered doing this but couldn't work out a way to de-normal them if I wanted to use In apart from using a dummy plug.

Cheers
Blair
on the dual USG i do have the trigger out to trigger normalled, i tried the same with the minisynth and i cant get it to work, seriously, i just don't get it its wired the same as the dual...


Weird! Does it work if you patch Trig Out->Trig In manually? Maybe trouble with your sockets again...

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

ringstone wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
ringstone wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.


Looks great! Do you have your USG's normalled, with mine I have to patch Trig Out->Trig In to cycle but yours seem to cycling without this... hmmm.....

I considered doing this but couldn't work out a way to de-normal them if I wanted to use In apart from using a dummy plug.

Cheers
Blair
on the dual USG i do have the trigger out to trigger normalled, i tried the same with the minisynth and i cant get it to work, seriously, i just don't get it its wired the same as the dual...


Weird! Does it work if you patch Trig Out->Trig In manually? Maybe trouble with your sockets again...

Cheers
Blair
no it doesn't, it works completely fine except for that. I'm a bit baffled by it...


clarke68

rico loverde wrote:
well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.


I was hanging on the edge of my seat reading through your progress building this thing...I was so relieved to hear you got it working! That's a really inspiring video (and rather groovy in spots)...gets me pumped to start putting these darn things together. I've got just a few more panels in the "design queue" before I can let go of the mouse and pick up the soldering iron for a bit!


bkbirge

clarke68 wrote:
I've got just a few more panels in the "design queue" before I can let go of the mouse and pick up the soldering iron for a bit!


Spill those beans.


frozenkore

bkbirge wrote:
clarke68 wrote:
I've got just a few more panels in the "design queue" before I can let go of the mouse and pick up the soldering iron for a bit!


Spill those beans.


+1


clarke68

bkbirge wrote:
Spill those beans.

LOL...my list is actually fairly long and subject to change, but I'm fairly certain that the next things I work on will be panels for the Ian Fritz Jerkster and Double Well Chaos, as well as J3RK's 291 filter. thumbs up


msprigings

clarke68 wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
Spill those beans.

LOL...my list is actually fairly long and subject to change, but I'm fairly certain that the next things I work on will be panels for the Ian Fritz Jerkster and Double Well Chaos, as well as J3RK's 291 filter. thumbs up


I see my case filling up fast. Maybe a panel for ian fritz dual teezer?


rico loverde

clarke68 wrote:
I was hanging on the edge of my seat reading through your progress building this thing...I was so relieved to hear you got it working! That's a really inspiring video (and rather groovy in spots)...gets me pumped to start putting these darn things together. I've got just a few more panels in the "design queue" before I can let go of the mouse and pick up the soldering iron for a bit!
Haa thanks Clarke, yea it was a bit of a rocky ride at first. Should have paid more attention to the jacks I was using! very frustrating

cant wait for the J3Rk 291 panel. sounds like J3RK is about to release a few more things, you may have some more panels to do!!! also very excited for the Mutant waveform generator...


clarke68

rico loverde wrote:
cant wait for the J3Rk 291 panel.

Same here! A while ago Scott Stites wrote (may have been here, but I think over at E-M) that if you only build one filter, do the 291...incredible breadth of modulation. I've wanted one ever since!

rico loverde wrote:
sounds like J3RK is about to release a few more things, you may have some more panels to do!!!

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever take my eyes off of that guy...he cranks out a ton of rad stuff.

rico loverde wrote:
also very excited for the Mutant waveform generator...

Yup, and beautyofdecay_ just posted an update to the Timbre/Mod Index PCB thread a few days ago...may not be too long before that one sees the light of day!

One thing's for sure...if the world does come to an end in 2012, we'll all be playing (or at least building) awesome synths when the day arrives!


rico loverde

well i got the Funky Drummer panel all wired. The Gated Comparator is a bit ugly but hopefully functional. Just waiting on a mouser order and then Ill finish wiring to the pcbs. Hopefully within the week Ill have some video of it in action...




negativspace

Well, I started. I have both VCOs wired up and oscillating, although the saw-to-sine has no output on either one and they won't trim to 1v/oct without a (simple) modification. Close enough, I guess. The first time one builds a given circuit is always a bit of a learning experience.

Only one of the two oscillated when I started, and for a while #2 only put out a square wave at half volume - so it's a step in the right direction! (Note: TL071 is not a proper substitute for TL072.) I'm moving on to the DUSG as soon as I get the v/oct calibration set.

They do sound great!


rico loverde

negativspace wrote:
Well, I started. I have both VCOs wired up and oscillating, although the saw-to-sine has no output on either one and they won't trim to 1v/oct without a (simple) modification. Close enough, I guess. The first time one builds a given circuit is always a bit of a learning experience.

Only one of the two oscillated when I started, and for a while #2 only put out a square wave at half volume - so it's a step in the right direction! (Note: TL071 is not a proper substitute for TL072.) I'm moving on to the DUSG as soon as I get the v/oct calibration set.

They do sound great!
I finally got everything working except the ring mod. On my VCOs the saw to sine is a bit quieter than the reg saw or square. Also theres not a major diff between the saw and sine when I turn the pot. I love the way the oscillators FM. They sound so killer.

I had it in a doepfer beauty case yesterday and had a blast with it!!!!

Im starting my funky drummer tomorrow and hopefully finishing my quad CLee LPG


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
well i got the Funky Drummer panel all wired. The Gated Comparator is a bit ugly but hopefully functional. Just waiting on a mouser order and then Ill finish wiring to the pcbs. Hopefully within the week Ill have some video of it in action...


Well, I think it actually looks a bit neater than mine, which is a real forest of wires! There's no need to wire the resistors directly to the pots though, there is provision on the mixer on the digital noise board for that...

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

ringstone wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
well i got the Funky Drummer panel all wired. The Gated Comparator is a bit ugly but hopefully functional. Just waiting on a mouser order and then Ill finish wiring to the pcbs. Hopefully within the week Ill have some video of it in action...


Well, I think it actually looks a bit neater than mine, which is a real forest of wires! There's no need to wire the resistors directly to the pots though, there is provision on the mixer on the digital noise board for that...

Cheers
Blair
i just saw that in the Best of CGS Build thread. I wasn't sure which way was better (the one on kens site or the one your talking about) but now that you have confirmed it for me I will def go that route....thatll clean things up a bit


negativspace

Ok, so I ended up having to replace the 100k resistor in series with the SPAN trimpot with a 91k. I can now dial in 1v/oct. I have VCO #1 running alongside a Z3000 in near-perfect unison over 3+ octaves. Time to pull it back down and doctor up #2.

I'm not going to bother with the sine-to-saw for now. I need to order a 25k 9mm pot to finish that section in VCO #1, and I want to have both done before I start troubleshooting - under the assumption that if it's a stupid mistake I won't make it twice. hihi


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
Ok, so I ended up having to replace the 100k resistor in series with the SPAN trimpot with a 91k. I can now dial in 1v/oct. I have VCO #1 running alongside a Z3000 in near-perfect unison over 3+ octaves. Time to pull it back down and doctor up #2.

I'm not going to bother with the sine-to-saw for now. I need to order a 25k 9mm pot to finish that section in VCO #1, and I want to have both done before I start troubleshooting - under the assumption that if it's a stupid mistake I won't make it twice. hihi


I'm wondering if this is a 12V conversion issue. I'm going to be running mine on 15V so I'll let you know how I get on when I calibrate. All boards are stuffed and tested for basic operation (apart from DUSG, fingers crossed on that one!) I'm just doing the panel wiring now.

I was going to go with a 20k for the sine-to-saw, I have a load of these so I will test for the closest to 25k...

Cheers
Blair


ringstone

BTW A few people remarked on the Saw-to-Sine output being a lot quiter than the other outputs on the Best of CGS thread. There's a "fix" for it on Electro-Music here:

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-255347.html#255347

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

Yeah, the sine itself is working, I can tap it at its output. It's definitely lower in amplitude than the square and saw... but when I say no output I mean no output. Dead fish. Something's amiss, no doubt my fault, probably in the wiring.

Also I don't think the 91k resistor/scaling issues are a 12v thing. There's a thread @ electro-music where someone has the exact same issue - and the exact same solution. Unless I misread the post, he's using a 15v supply.


jbaken

So I am finally getting around to building the minisynth. Just finished stuffing the VCOs and need to test those. Would it be possible for anyone who has finished the build to post a shot or two of their beauty all wired up?


qu.one

i havent really followed this - but what is the average cost per module, specifically the minisynth?


negativspace

qu.one wrote:
i havent really followed this - but what is the average cost per module, specifically the minisynth?


You mean the cost of parts to build one, or cost to have one built?

I'd guess that the Minisynth is ~$400 in materials (panel, PCBs, parts) depending on which particular parts you use for the matched transistor pairs, pots+knobs, switches etc. The MSU is probably more like ~$250. I haven't built the other two so can't comment.

Speaking of the Minisynth, I got the DUSG and Ringmod wired up last night. Both worked perfectly on the first go - giant relief there. The ringmod in particular impressed the hell out of me. I used some transformers I dug up at Mouser with higher specs than the recommended part, which I've used in previous builds. These are the same physical size (~1" cubes) but the pins are thick and require one to drill out the PCB holes slightly. Totally worth it - this is the best-sounding RRM I've ever built. It has bass! (I can't wait to build one in 4U with the Edcor transformers I ordered last year.)

I'm doing the VCAs now and with any luck I'll have this thing done tonight. I do still have to wait for an order from Small Bear so I can tackle the saw-to-sine issue & add the LEDs. (I don't keep 3mm holders on hand. d'oh! )


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
Speaking of the Minisynth, I got the DUSG and Ringmod wired up last night. Both worked perfectly on the first go - giant relief there. The ringmod in particular impressed the hell out of me. I used some transformers I dug up at Mouser with higher specs than the recommended part, which I've used in previous builds. These are the same physical size (~1" cubes) but the pins are thick and require one to drill out the PCB holes slightly. Totally worth it - this is the best-sounding RRM I've ever built. It has bass! (I can't wait to build one in 4U with the Edcor transformers I ordered last year.)

I'm doing the VCAs now and with any luck I'll have this thing done tonight. I do still have to wait for an order from Small Bear so I can tackle the saw-to-sine issue & add the LEDs. (I don't keep 3mm holders on hand. d'oh! )


Yes, the ringmod is very nice, testing indicated that it compares favourably to my Moogfooger ringmod, which cost significantly more hihi I'm having an issue with one of my VCOs which has delayed my calibration process, although everything seems to be working the range is incorrect (too high) and everything I've tried has only seemed to have made it worse! I'm starting to suspect the LM394 at this stage...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Found it in a few minutes after a good nights sleep! and it was 2 things - the "processor" section is putting out a DC offset for some reason, and a broken track on one end of the zero trimmer. I suspected that perhaps I had over-tweaked it and cause an intermittent short in it, but after desoldering for testing the real intermittent fault quickly became apparent. I'm not using the processor section as there's no provision for the pot, so I've just removed the TL072 and left it as is...

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

Hm, I had 99 problems with my VCOs but ... a pitch ain't one? (Sorry.)


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
Hm, I had 99 problems with my VCOs but ... a pitch ain't one? (Sorry.)


Heh, yeah. I seem to have more trouble with VCO's than anything else hihi These two seemed to work straight off but that was just to catch me off guard I suspect...

This issue seems pretty minor but it's driving me nuts, there's no way I can calibrate this thing when the pitch keeps going off the end of the scale every time I adjust it (even if it is stable!). It's frustrating that such a "minor" issue is proving so hard to track down.

I had hoped to be doing some tweaking of the Saw-to-sine output by now. My initial tests indicated that running a CV into Shape CV resulted in a greater variation of timbre than the actual Shape pot...

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

There must be some angry feral gnomes living in tempco resistors or something. Damn you, tempco gnomes. seriously, i just don't get it


rico loverde

Id love to see some shot of your guys waveform for the vcos. mine seem a bit odd. the saw to sine is a bit weird and I've tried calibrating it.

On another note I finished the CLee quad LPG today, it sounds great. I also finished the funky drummer, everything works but the range and the mix out and I can't figure them out. It just about drove me nuts this weekend. I had it working great and then when i bundled it all up onto the brackets something changed and I can't figure out what... d'oh!

I love the CGS stuff but it always gives me hell when building them. I do however learn a lot usually. I also get a few more gray hairs with each build hihi


negativspace

Well, aside from the few parts that I don't have this thing is done. w00t







Rico, I think the saw to sine geometry is supposed to be somewhat 'approximate.' And I know what you mean about building these things. The first go-round is often a bit of an adventure, but once I'm familiar with a given circuit I find it pretty easy to build without surprises.

This thing is a beast to build, but holy crap is it fun. I don't know where I can even put it but I've gotta find a place. hihi


ringstone

Oh, and I'm not sure why the "tune" input is the way it is. I noticed that turning the Fine Tune pot clockwise from centre fine tuning is available, but turning into anti-clockwise the frequency drops dramatically. This appears by design, since the tune input is connected into the summing node by both a 1M resistor and a 100K in series with a diode... perhaps to drop it into LFO frequencies more easily? But there is enough range in the main frequency control to do that anyway...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Oh I fixed the issue with the VCO BTW, details in the post back a few, since I still had it open there d'oh! I missed J's pics at first - damn that looks nice, very professional!


negativspace

I had to run my TUNE pot into the TUNE pad (I know, right?) and its 1M resistor, and then run the FINE pot into the CVSN pad via a 4.7M. That gives normal, expected, tame operation of the two knobs. There's still a hell of a huge range available on the tune pot.


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
I had to run my TUNE pot into the TUNE pad (I know, right?) and its 1M resistor, and then run the FINE pot into the CVSN pad via a 4.7M. That gives normal, expected, tame operation of the two knobs. There's still a hell of a huge range available on the tune pot.


Hey, it makes sense when you say it like that! applause I followed the diagram on the CGS site...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: So, I'm sacrificing one of the 1V/O pads for the fine tune and swapping out the 100K for a 4M7 since I am routing CV2 to PWM anyway... it's nice, try it!


negativspace

I'm sorta holding out with the PWM... I've mocked up an 8hp 'expander' for the VCOs & passed it along to Clarke. We'll see what comes of it. 8_)


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
I'm sorta holding out with the PWM... I've mocked up an 8hp 'expander' for the VCOs & passed it along to Clarke. We'll see what comes of it. 8_)


Damn it man, have you been reading my mind yet again??? lol

All good now, and all the tuning works well... I thought that zeroing calibration ended up with too high a frequency but given the nature of the tune setup it all makes sense!

Cheers
Blair


ringstone

rico loverde wrote:
I also finished the funky drummer, everything works but the range and the mix out and I can't figure them out. It just about drove me nuts this weekend. I had it working great and then when i bundled it all up onto the brackets something changed and I can't figure out what...


Yeah, I've lost track of the number of times that's happened on a project. And yes, it happened on my Funky Drummer panel, it was fine until put together - ended up being a terminal on one of the pots being squeezed up against some of my ground wiring.

Did you end up changing your wiring? I though afterwards that's probably why your panel looked so much neater than mine, less wiring... d'oh!

Cheers
Blair


negativspace

ringstone wrote:
Damn it man, have you been reading my mind yet again??? lol


Well, that depends. Were you thinking of a panel with PWM (pot + input), sync in, and scv for each VCO and then 2 passive attenuators in the space beneath? If so, then I probably was. Om


ringstone

negativspace wrote:
ringstone wrote:
Damn it man, have you been reading my mind yet again??? lol


Well, that depends. Were you thinking of a panel with PWM (pot + input), sync in, and scv for each VCO and then 2 passive attenuators in the space beneath? If so, then I probably was. Om


Pretty much woah You added those extra attenuators though, so it's ok!! lol

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

negativspace wrote:
ringstone wrote:
Damn it man, have you been reading my mind yet again??? lol


Well, that depends. Were you thinking of a panel with PWM (pot + input), sync in, and scv for each VCO and then 2 passive attenuators in the space beneath? If so, then I probably was. Om
I wrote Clarke the same day you talked about to him about the exact same thing...he came by on sunday and was laughing about the universal consciousness of muffs.


clarke68

negativspace wrote:
I've mocked up an 8hp 'expander' for the VCOs & passed it along to Clarke. We'll see what comes of it. 8_)
rico loverde wrote:
...he came by on sunday and was laughing about the universal consciousness of muffs.

Sounds like I need to get on that!

And I must say:

...that is one amazing build! I may end up spending all of 2013 getting mine looking that clean. thumbs up

Can you post a link to the transformers you used for the Ring Mod?


msprigings

That is really impressive, outstanding build.


[Djo]

Holy shit! love love love

Amazing build negativspace, congratulation!


rico loverde

after doing this one myself kudos to you negativspace for doing such a neat job... mine is def not that pretty. yours looks a lot thinner than mine as well.


negativspace

Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate the kind words! Guinness ftw!

The most impressive thing about the build to me is that I can disassemble it and service every panel control and every PCB should the need arise. The wiring's all done such that the board stacks fold away from the center like opening a book. (In other words, fixing my VCOs and adding the LEDs won't be a major task - just some dis/re-assembly.) That was the biggest 'engineering challenge' of the project, and something I spent hours planning and scheming to achieve.

First the CGS04 comes off, then the VCO stack can be removed. To get at the other side, the VCAs come off as a pair and fold toward the top, same direction as the VCOs. The RRM can be folded out toward the bottom as can the DUSG underneath. Intricate, but it works!

Now I'm out of wire, though. d'oh!

rico loverde wrote:
yours looks a lot thinner than mine as well.


I used the thinnest-possible spacers to try and keep it that way - my secret goal was to make it skiff-worthy. I missed that goal, but it's only the very back corner of the transformers that hits the bottom. The VCO stack fits even with the mixer up there. Oh so close!


negativspace

clarke68 wrote:
Can you post a link to the transformers you used for the Ring Mod?


Yes.


Monobass

I hope I can get mine that shallow too... how deep is it exactly?


negativspace

Dunno... and it's all patched up right now so I'm not pulling it out to check. hihi


Monobass

fair enough hihi


negativspace

I'll measure it tomorrow when I pull it down to add the LEDs. thumbs up


ringstone

So... the Saw to Sine output on the VCOs. I didn't get much out of connecting the pot between SP+ and SPW - except when there was a CV in on SCV. Connecting between SP+ and SCV gives a nice variation in timbre even with a 20k pot. I haven't adjusted the Sine trim yet but it sounds good to me already, just a fair bit quieter than the other outputs.

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Have to amend this, because it turned out to be due to the fact I hadn't trimmed the Sine output correctly. Once I did it properly by observing the waveform on my 'scope, the normal setup between SP+ and SPW worked as it should have.


negativspace

Monobass wrote:
I hope I can get mine that shallow too... how deep is it exactly?


It is 67mm deep, exactly. (And it looks a hell of a lot better with LEDs. SlayerBadger! )

[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/minisynth-first-patch[/s]


Monobass

Great, if it had been sub 80mm I'd have been happy enough, have to build mine as well as yours now

edit: nice groove by the way thumbs up


negativspace

Thanks. 8_)

I used 0.75" standoffs, then some awesome plastic I-beam stock from the architecture modelling section at the college bookstore. (My parents teach in the architecture department here, so I grew up with that kinda stuff around. Comfort zone...) The shorter plastic standoffs are 7/16" and the longer ones on the VCO stack are 0.5" to allow space for those honkin'-big tempcos. 1/16" washers are used to space other stuff where necessary.

It'd fit my skiff if it weren't angled...


lessavyfav

bkbirge wrote:
...and here's a couple mouser projects that make ordering a LOT easier. They take the BOM from above so if you want different parts you'll need to go in and edit and hit the button to 'save as my own project'. And of course these are just the parts from the BOM that Mouser has, you'll still need to source some stuff from other places (bridechamber, ebay).

Funky Drummer, mouser costs $121.42USD+shipping
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=5e66 c16398

West Coast Mini Synth, mouser costs $215.07USD+shipping, includes both vco's and vca's
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=16d4 3ff73a


So I'm finally (wow) seeing some time to get cracking on my MSU and my Funky Drummer. My DIY experience is with kits that include parts. I used
to do a lot of DIY. I love assembly and testing but fear & hate buying the parts. Thanks so much for this Mouser order
but I have one question- on the Funky Drummer project there is one missing part, this Counter Shift Registers Dual Shift Register thing. It asks if I want to pick a similar replacement. I click on the button and as the page loads drool begins to pour out of my mouth and my vision blurs. Anyone know of a replacement for this bit?

Thanks for the patience.


ringstone

lessavyfav wrote:
So I'm finally (wow) seeing some time to get cracking on my MSU and my Funky Drummer. My DIY experience is with kits that include parts. I used
to do a lot of DIY. I love assembly and testing but fear & hate buying the parts. Thanks so much for this Mouser order
but I have one question- on the Funky Drummer project there is one missing part, this Counter Shift Registers Dual Shift Register thing. It asks if I want to pick a similar replacement. I click on the button and as the page loads drool begins to pour out of my mouth and my vision blurs. Anyone know of a replacement for this bit?


Yes, you have to be a little careful with with CMOS, sometimes low-voltage parts are advised as replacements... Mouser does seem to have a suitable part for CD4015, part no. 595-CD4015BE.

Cheers
Blair


lessavyfav

ringstone wrote:
lessavyfav wrote:
So I'm finally (wow) seeing some time to get cracking on my MSU and my Funky Drummer. My DIY experience is with kits that include parts. I used
to do a lot of DIY. I love assembly and testing but fear & hate buying the parts. Thanks so much for this Mouser order
but I have one question- on the Funky Drummer project there is one missing part, this Counter Shift Registers Dual Shift Register thing. It asks if I want to pick a similar replacement. I click on the button and as the page loads drool begins to pour out of my mouth and my vision blurs. Anyone know of a replacement for this bit?


Yes, you have to be a little careful with with CMOS, sometimes low-voltage parts are advised as replacements... Mouser does seem to have a suitable part for CD4015, part no. 595-CD4015BE.

Cheers
Blair


Thanks! I'll give it a shot!

I envy those who live in places where there are walk in shops for this stuff- I picture California to have Supermarket sized Digi-Key shops plus In&Out Burgers on every corner ;-) I succumb to- I can't buy a $1 part with $10 shipping. I wish here was a Mouser "Prime" like Amazon...


jbaken

does anyone know the mouser part # for a tool to screw in 3.5mm jacks w/ out scratching the panel? pliers just aint gettin the job done clean


frozenkore

jbaken wrote:
does anyone know the mouser part # for a tool to screw in 3.5mm jacks w/ out scratching the panel? pliers just aint gettin the job done clean


A couple others and myself use this but you'll have to file it down a bit as the "key" is a little too thick to fit in the key slots of the jacks. Otherwise it works fine.


bleeps

frozenkore wrote:
jbaken wrote:
does anyone know the mouser part # for a tool to screw in 3.5mm jacks w/ out scratching the panel? pliers just aint gettin the job done clean


A couple others and myself use this but you'll have to file it down a bit as the "key" is a little too thick to fit in the key slots of the jacks. Otherwise it works fine.
Oh, looks like Erhtenvar has them now too!


jbaken

awesome, thankyou!


Leisure Cove

This thread is an inspiration! Great work all around thumbs up


rico loverde

So heres the DIY case so far, still gotta build the MSU and trouble shoot the Gated Comparator on the Funky Drummer. Many thanks to Clarke for his efforts in providing such awesome panels








negativspace

Well done, sir! we're not worthy


hank

Wow, nice! woah


ophidian

That is stunning Rico. w00t


simfonik

That looks amazing, Rico. 8_)


rico loverde

Thanx guys! It wouldnt have happened if it wasnt for this amazing forum!


lessavyfav

Hello - can anyone explain which size LED's I should get to fit into the 3mm LED Lens I got. The BOM has 5mm LEDs, I had some of these at my space and they don't seem to fit. Should they, like, click in?

Thanks!


negativspace

The holes are sized for 3mm LEDs in holders. (Lens maybe as well.)


clarke68

lessavyfav wrote:
which size LED's I should get to fit into the 3mm LED Lens I got.


3mm LED lenses are for T-1 size LEDs. T-1 is secret LED manufacturer talk for "3mm", but you won't find anything at mouser looking from 3mm LEDs. 5mm LEDs are called "T-3".

Assembly instructions on the LED lens data sheet are: "Insert lens through panel hole, and insert LED into lens."


lessavyfav

Great! T-1. Yeah that is the trick. I was searching 3mm and getting nothing...

Thanks everybody. Slow me keeping this thread alive!


jbaken

So I finally finished the mini synth and it sounds great.. My one issue is with the vcas. When I plug my vco into into either of my vcas I get a bit of bleed through. I made sure the vca was outputting 0 dc and minimized cv bleed w the trims. I also gave every module it's own plug to the power supply so I'm stumped over this.. Any ideas would be great


rico loverde

jbaken wrote:
So I finally finished the mini synth and it sounds great.. My one issue is with the vcas. When I plug my vco into into either of my vcas I get a bit of bleed through. I made sure the vca was outputting 0 dc and minimized cv bleed w the trims. I also gave every module it's own plug to the power supply so I'm stumped over this.. Any ideas would be great
i had this issue but it worked itself out when i redid the power on mine. there were a few issues i had so I'm not 100% sure the rewiring of the power is what solved it. i ended up getting a cps motm busboard and power each module off that. hopefully someone else will offer some better help


ringstone

jbaken wrote:
So I finally finished the mini synth and it sounds great.. My one issue is with the vcas. When I plug my vco into into either of my vcas I get a bit of bleed through. I made sure the vca was outputting 0 dc and minimized cv bleed w the trims. I also gave every module it's own plug to the power supply so I'm stumped over this.. Any ideas would be great


I believe this can happen if the 3 BC548's are not well matched (think I saw a reference to this on the CGS mailing list). I have a bit of bleed on mine, but I didn't have a large stock to choose from. I will order up a bunch in the near future and do a better matching job...

Cheers
Blair


jbaken

Hmm I guess I didn't match the 548s as close as the dual. I also don't recall having bleed on my test power supply. Feels like trannies or my mono rocket case are to blame.
Besides that, this thing is amazing. I gotta thank everyone here for posting their experiences/troubles w the build...It helped me a lot.


regenbot

Question about the DUSG wiring. Is the VC IN pot just an attenuator. Can i put cv input to signal in of the pot and then out to F on the pcb? I thought could, but iam somewhat confused after lookin at the schematics and wiring documentation. hmmm.....

Another thing i notice that there are three different M marked inputs on the board. I'm assuming the trig out is on the two M's near the 5V6 diodes. What's that third M input for?

Cheers, Heikki


ringstone

regenbot wrote:
Question about the DUSG wiring. Is the VC IN pot just an attenuator. Can i put cv input to signal in of the pot and then out to F on the pcb? I thought could, but iam somewhat confused after lookin at the schematics and wiring documentation. hmmm.....

Another thing i notice that there are three different M marked inputs on the board. I'm assuming the trig out is on the two M's near the 5V6 diodes. What's that third M input for?

Cheers, Heikki


It's not "W" - which is just above one FC input? If so, it's the 0V power terminal.

Cheers
Blair


regenbot

ringstone wrote:


It's not "W" - which is just above one FC input? If so, it's the 0V power terminal.



It is d'oh! I now remember confusing it with an M earlier too, thanks for your help smile


regenbot

So can anyone tell if i can put the VC input as an passive attenuator? CV In > VC In pot > F on the pcb?

Cheers, Heikki


hv0190

Heikki, if I read the schematics of the DUSG right this wouldn't work as intended, as the CV In at the same time feeds the negative input of an op amp through a 470K resistor - the attenuator is designed to be a polarised attenuator - wiring it your way this wouldn't work I guess hmmm.....


regenbot

Ok, i thought so too, but had to make sure before rewiring cry
Thanks Guinness ftw!

hv0190 wrote:
Heikki, if I read the schematics of the DUSG right this wouldn't work as intended, as the CV In at the same time feeds the negative input of an op amp through a 470K resistor - the attenuator is designed to be a polarised attenuator - wiring it your way this wouldn't work I guess hmmm.....



Emalot

Rico, we're not worthy we're not worthy
Can you tell us the list of modules in your case??
Thanks

EDIT;I saw the list in the "gloat thread" Guinness ftw!


regenbot

EDIT: I think i have wrong kind of power supply in my uzeus no ground eek!

Ok got the quadslope all wired up now. It is working apart from one dead led.

There is one issue. The voltage it outputs is wobbly and shaky is it somekind of grounding issue?

I did put all the pot & jack grounds to onky one of the boards. Could that cause issues?

Please help


Monobass

Mouser seem to be out of 20k or 25k 9mm small 9mm pots...

http://uk.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=311-1902F

anyone know of a suitable alternative?


negativspace

Try Small Bear, I know he's out of the 50k Linear but I think he's got the rest in stock. (Incl. 25k.) If Banzai Music is easier for you since they're on your side of the Atlantic, they should have them as well.


Monobass

yep they're in at Banzai, thanks thumbs up


lessavyfav

The slow poke has landed- I got my MSU together finally! Everything was working great but then suddenly the cgs35 Steiner Synthacon filter starts self resonating and wont stop. The resonance pot doesn't do anything I haven't screwed everything down yet and assumed that a pad had disconnected or that a panel wire was touching something but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. If I touch any components while it is plugged in I get a lot of radio noise.

Has anyone ever heard of this? I can test the res pot but beyond that my error checking skills prove my to be a DIY dummy. For some reason I am suspicious of the the 2N2222- how would I check?

Any advice would be great.


clarke68

Ken does warn about the Synthacon resonance:

Quote:
Resonance is a bit unusual in its behavior. Once it starts oscillating, the resonance pot needs to be backed off a fair way to get it to stop again. It can also be frequency dependent.


...however that doesn't explain exactly what's happening with yours. Definitely check all the obvious stuff first...panel wiring, shorts to ground, etc. ...all it takes is a little blob of solder in the wrong place, or a single strand of wire touching the panel...it's really easy to do. Every time I've had a hunch about a bad part I've been wrong, and it's been something that was staring me in the face the whole time.


J3RK

clarke68 wrote:
Ken does warn about the Synthacon resonance:

Quote:
Resonance is a bit unusual in its behavior. Once it starts oscillating, the resonance pot needs to be backed off a fair way to get it to stop again. It can also be frequency dependent.


...however that doesn't explain exactly what's happening with yours. Definitely check all the obvious stuff first...panel wiring, shorts to ground, etc. ...all it takes is a little blob of solder in the wrong place, or a single strand of wire touching the panel...it's really easy to do. Every time I've had a hunch about a bad part I've been wrong, and it's been something that was staring me in the face the whole time.


I haven't built this particular module, but another thing to check with some CGS boards, is to make sure all jumper wires are connected. I left these off of my VCSes (was the first time I had built CGS or single-sided boards for that matter,) and needless to say, they didn't work. I swapped parts out, checked just about everything about 5 times, and then realized, oh, those lines are for jumpers! meh very frustrating Dead Banana Probably not the case here, but something to check maybe.


negativspace

I had one CGS35 build that wouldn't resonate properly at all... replacing the 2N2222 was the solution. (I had a weak one, I guess.) So it's not an unreasonable place to start... and a cheap-enough part to swap out. But J3RK's right, usually it ends up being human error. I think I've had one (1) module fail at startup due to a DOA transistor, ever. (A Synthasystem VCF... one of my 2N5172s was bad. Took forever to isolate.)


lessavyfav

Thanks guys I'll triple check but - it was working fine for a day or two... It went bad when I tried to distribute the power from the proto area on the wavefolder. Each module worked on its own, when I wired them to share 1 header the case I was plugging them into wouldn't power up. I assumed a short, undid the power and rewired it (the old computer solution) and it worked! Except that the resonance is now at full and the res pot has no affect. I checked the pot and wiring for shorts and so far it all looks ok. The 2N2222 is my suspect just because if it was somehow fried and stuck full open that'd explain the pot not helping to dampen res. Or maybe the 7401? That said, I don't know shit about checking anything other then physical issues. It all smells "normal". I'll be looking again on Monday and post any findings I have.

The only other element off script from the build is - Elby sent me 4x 1uF 35v Tantalum Caps rather the Electrolytic ones. I emailed and they said "oops" but that it should work fine. Both are polarized and it did work at first...


lessavyfav

Checking the schematic, it is not the 7401 since that is the output amp, and it outputs fine


mikecameron

I'm having weird resonance issues with CGS35 as well.. on initial power-up, it is fine, but over the next minute or so the resonance slowly fades to none. I found that if I touch the 2n2222 in the feedback loop I could hear the resonance 'build back up' and it would behave as I'd expect for a minute or so, then the resonance would fade again.

I replaced all the 2n2222 with another brand, and subsequently reflowed all solder points to no avail. Everything works as before.

Anyone have this happen?

It almost seems like a capacitor issue with the fading. I guess that's my next avenue of parts to swap.


mikecameron

lessavyfav wrote:
The only other element off script from the build is - Elby sent me 4x 1uF 35v Tantalum Caps rather the Electrolytic ones. I emailed and they said "oops" but that it should work fine. Both are polarized and it did work at first...


I'm no EE but I do know that the major drawback of tantalum caps is that if hit with reverse voltage, they short internally. Given your story about the power distribution, and the fact that these boards have no reverse power protection, that would be the first place I'd look.


lessavyfav

Thanks for the tip! I will definitely try. If it works you earn my personal "House" award. (the tv show not the music ;-)) I can't wait till Monday to get back on the case!


mikecameron

It's not Lupus.


lessavyfav

It turns out is was lupus! Actually, so far no luck, I swapped the CAPS for new tantalum ones (what I had on hand) and the res continued to stay fully peaked. I'm gathering a mouser order and will report back if any of my tinkering works. I keep on checking for solder faults but can't find em...


regenbot

I have a slight issue with my quadslope build. It works great on my doepfer main case, but with my uzeus the slopes affect to each other. So if i put slope 1 cycling for example and then put slope 2 cycling also it affects the slope 1.

I didn't install the decoupling capacitors to the back of the cgs114. Could that cause these issues? help

Thanks in advance
Heikki


rico loverde

regenbot wrote:
I have a slight issue with my quadslope build. It works great on my doepfer main case, but with my uzeus the slopes affect to each other. So if i put slope 1 cycling for example and then put slope 2 cycling also it affects the slope 1.

I didn't install the decoupling capacitors to the back of the cgs114. Could that cause these issues? help

Thanks in advance
Heikki
it wouldn't be the decoupling caps. mine did something similar but it was more because i didn't have it wired right as opposed to an issue with the power supply. i use mine with a uzeus and it works great.


regenbot

rico loverde wrote:
it wouldn't be the decoupling caps. mine did something similar but it was more because i didn't have it wired right as opposed to an issue with the power supply. i use mine with a uzeus and it works great.


Ok, thanks. I suppose it's not wiring issue with mine. Not really exited to check the wiring. Maybe i'll just put it in my doepfer case and try to forget it. thumbs up


regenbot

rico loverde wrote:
mine did something similar but it was more because i didn't have it wired right.


Do you remember how you had it wrong? I did take some pointers from the pics you posted earlier in this thread. I think a pot fried on mine, so have to figure this out hmmm.....

Cheers, Heikki


fate

I'm having some trouble with the 73 serge vcf, my lp/bp/hp seems fine, but my freq/res knobs aren't really changing the sound. the freq will change but as soon as it gets to a new position, audibly, it goes back to how it sounds before i turned the knob, the res doesnt seem to be effective at all. they both are wired correctly it seems nad have voltage seriously, i just don't get it


rico loverde

regenbot wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
mine did something similar but it was more because i didn't have it wired right.


Do you remember how you had it wrong? I did take some pointers from the pics you posted earlier in this thread. I think a pot fried on mine, so have to figure this out hmmm.....

Cheers, Heikki
I had the left and right lugs swapped, also one of mine was shorting out, there was a small piece of wire touching the middle lug and the left one...

Edit: also one of the pots died because it was touching the mounting rail and basically connecting all three lugs at once. It actually smoked that time...


msprigings

yeah the metal mounting rails you have to be very careful not to let anything touch.


amnesia

I love the Serge filter such a glassy/ stone texture.


regenbot

rico loverde wrote:

Edit: also one of the pots died because it was touching the mounting rail and basically connecting all three lugs at once. It actually smoked that time...


Thanks, my pot died for the same reason,should have insulated it better from the start. I think my uzeus is somehow damaged as it does have issues with other modules too. And my quadslope works great in my doepfer case. I've been in touch with Gur and he's being super helpfull so hopefully we can figure out what's wrong.

Cheers, Heikki


Microscopial

hi everybody, i got these 4 but will never have time to build them so will let them go for what I paid (but cant remember original price, can you help me out they are cgs funky drummer/cgs msu/quad slope/and west coast mini synth, all have the tiniest of rack rash as I put them in a rack for something but still look great and three of them stioll have the protective layer on them

cheers ross


Monobass

hey clarke, I noticed the photos in the first few posts are down.


samuraipizzacat29

help!

has anyone else had problems gettting self oscillation out of one of their slope generators? 3 of my 4 quadrants are working 100% spot on perfectly (one didn't work right due to reversed lm3900 d'oh!).

BUT

when I first fired it on the quadrant worked fine. Since then, all functions work fine except the trigger input. It doesn't gate, self-oscillate, anything. Yet, processing a signal input through the in jack works as expected. It's a new lm3900 and I replaced the 1000pf cap and both 100k resistors at the input. any other ideas?

thanks,
nate


ringstone

samuraipizzacat29 wrote:
help!

has anyone else had problems gettting self oscillation out of one of their slope generators? 3 of my 4 quadrants are working 100% spot on perfectly (one didn't work right due to reversed lm3900 d'oh!).

BUT

when I first fired it on the quadrant worked fine. Since then, all functions work fine except the trigger input. It doesn't gate, self-oscillate, anything. Yet, processing a signal input through the in jack works as expected. It's a new lm3900 and I replaced the 1000pf cap and both 100k resistors at the input. any other ideas?

thanks,
nate


Tweaking the trimmer doesn't help? I thought a couple of mine were broken but they just weren't trimmed properly...

Cheers
Blair


rico loverde

samuraipizzacat29 wrote:
help!

has anyone else had problems gettting self oscillation out of one of their slope generators? 3 of my 4 quadrants are working 100% spot on perfectly (one didn't work right due to reversed lm3900 d'oh!).

BUT

when I first fired it on the quadrant worked fine. Since then, all functions work fine except the trigger input. It doesn't gate, self-oscillate, anything. Yet, processing a signal input through the in jack works as expected. It's a new lm3900 and I replaced the 1000pf cap and both 100k resistors at the input. any other ideas?

thanks,
nate
Do you have the gate out jack connected to the trigger in jack via a wire?


samuraipizzacat29

Quote:
Do you have the gate out jack connected to the trigger in jack via a wire?


yep - i mean when it's patched together.

I was looking at the schemos last night and think the next thing I'll replace is the one 3906. I wish I grasped the triggering aspect of the schematics better.


Monobass

Is it necessary to build the buffer section of the CGS77 Serge VCF in a euro system?


msprigings

I didn't and my MSU works great.


negativspace

msprigings wrote:
I didn't and my MSU works great.



Monobass

thanks SlayerBadger!

also does 'monoblock' mean SMT?
and 'MKT' mean the styrene square type caps?


samuraipizzacat29

afaik monoblock means monolithic multi layer ceramic. I "think" mkt usually describes the polystyrene. if it's in a filter and in the audio/signal path, go for a styrene/poly type cap. it's worth it.


iopop

MKT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallized_plastic_polyester#Metalized_Pl astic_Film_Capacitors


mikecameron

EDIT: you beat me to it!

From Wikipedia:

Metalized plastic film (MKT = polyester, MKC = polycarbonate)


Monobass

ah excellent, thanks guys thumbs up


Monobass

As the Clarke68 panel has no pot for the 'level' on the Steiner, is this just omitted or does it need a wire link or anything?


ringstone

Monobass wrote:
As the Clarke68 panel has no pot for the 'level' on the Steiner, is this just omitted or does it need a wire link or anything?


You can use a wire link or a resistor. I actually hacked a trimmer in there so I could adjust the level to suit. If you use a wire link there is a 47k resistor in series (the 47k alongside the opamp) which will probably need to be increased to achieve a usable level.

Cheers
Blair


Monobass

oh.. so the original level control plus the 47k resistor is basically a voltage divider?


negativspace

I use a 180k resistor to link those pads, along with the 47k as per BOM. You could use a 220k in place of the 47k, plus a wire link to achieve the same results.


Monobass

Cheers guys, I have the 47k already in place so I'll try out a 180k resistor thumbs up


thanatronique

Hi all, I have a question regarding the Quad Slope. I have built mine with 4 CGS75. If anyone has done the same, I'd like to know how to wire the switch affecting the cv in?

I have tried putting rise and fall at both end of the switch using diodes and putting ground in the middle, but it seems to affect the positive side only and do nothing on the negative.

Any help would be really appreciated, thanks.


thanatronique

I'm bumping this, anyone built the quad slope with 4 cgs75? How did you wire the switch?

Please, anyone?

Thanks


samuraipizzacat29

I'll take a stab:


thanatronique

Thanks samuraipizzacat29.

I think I understand what you mean, will have to try it out.

Thanks,


samuraipizzacat29

np. fwiw - you can keep those other cv inputs, but there's only an input for one cv on clarke's panel. that's a difference between the cgs114 and the cgs75 AFAIK


thanatronique

Indeed, thanks


pavementsands

Hi all.
I've just built an elby VCS kit -first kit build and really satisfying to do. Seems to work exactly as I'd expect and it's a whole load of fun to use.

Only problen is that the 1v/oct input isn't doing anything. I only spotted this today. I've gone over the board to look for mistakes/ dodgy bits but I can't seem to track it down.

If anyone's got any suggestions how to proceed that'd be hugely appreciated - I'm a bit of a n00b with this stuff. Partic what area of the board to concentrate on for troubleshooting this.

Cheers.
thanatronique
Try to look for lifted pads starting at the 1v/oct input by using a multimeter in resistance measurement.

I had quite a few lifted pads that I didn't see. It was quite easy to lift pads since there is no barrels in those holes. If you have this problem, you'll have to put wires to bring your signal where it doesn't go.

Try to look at schematic and the board overlay to identify the components in the signal path.

Hope it helps, good luck
thanatronique
Hi guys, I've built the MSU. Everything seems to be functional after some debugging. But I have concerns regarding the wave multiplier, not sure how every stages are suppose to look like. It's kind of fucked up and sounds cool. It look really messed up on the scope.

My other concern is regarding the manual pwm pot, the range of the pot is very narrow. I have to keep it in the center to have a signal. But when I feed an lfo at audio rate, it sounds good and I can use pretty much all of the knob travel. Is that normal?

I have a couple of pots wired backward apparently, don't know if it could lead to some of my issues?

Thanks for any feedback.
thanatronique
Also the gain is very low on the triangle compaired to the square.
thanatronique
I found the problems and everything is fixed now.
pavementsands
thanatronique wrote:
Try to look for lifted pads starting at the 1v/oct input by using a multimeter in resistance measurement.

I had quite a few lifted pads that I didn't see. It was quite easy to lift pads since there is no barrels in those holes. If you have this problem, you'll have to put wires to bring your signal where it doesn't go.

Try to look at schematic and the board overlay to identify the components in the signal path.

Hope it helps, good luck


Cheers for this!
I actually found the issue about 10 minutes after posting and it was exactly what you described above!
thanatronique
Cool, happy your built works.
Monobass
how are people getting along with the oscillators in the west coast mini synth?

I have the panel and kits ready to build, but I struggle to find many demos of how they sound, what they are comparable to (as they are not 'actual' clones of the Serge oscs right?), what they excel at etc.

Looking for some enthusiasm for that build basically smile
samuraipizzacat29
ringstone wrote:


Tweaking the trimmer doesn't help? I thought a couple of mine were broken but they just weren't trimmed properly...

Cheers
Blair


you dirty dog!!!!

we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

I replaced nearly everything in the signal path and it still wasn't triggering. then I gave the trimmer a few turns and BAM! oscillating like a champ! I'm thinking something got zapped (possibly the zener or one of the small signal diodes) but it still needed trimmed regardless.

thanks for the suggestion smile
nate
clarke68
Monobass wrote:
how are people getting along with the oscillators in the west coast mini synth?

I'm ridiculously behind on my own builds (just started the MSU last weekend), but there are a couple of demos buried deep in this thread:



[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/minisynth-first-patch[/s]

I got to play with Rico's Mini Synth a little bit once...it has a really cool "rubbery" tonality that I loved. You only hear it a little bit in these demos, but I've never heard anything quite like it in any other oscillator (note that there are *many* oscillators out there I've never heard).

It's a mother of a build, tho...I understand the need for a little inspiration!
ringstone
samuraipizzacat29 wrote:
ringstone wrote:


Tweaking the trimmer doesn't help? I thought a couple of mine were broken but they just weren't trimmed properly...

Cheers
Blair


you dirty dog!!!!

we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

I replaced nearly everything in the signal path and it still wasn't triggering. then I gave the trimmer a few turns and BAM! oscillating like a champ! I'm thinking something got zapped (possibly the zener or one of the small signal diodes) but it still needed trimmed regardless.

thanks for the suggestion smile
nate


No worries, I love a happy ending... w00t

Sadly I fired up my Mini Synth to do a demo for Monobass (I've still got to get around to finishing up the rack it's going in so it's been sitting out on the bench) and my DUSG there has stopped working d'oh! Sigh...

Cheers
Blair
rico loverde
Monobass wrote:
how are people getting along with the oscillators in the west coast mini synth?

I have the panel and kits ready to build, but I struggle to find many demos of how they sound, what they are comparable to (as they are not 'actual' clones of the Serge oscs right?), what they excel at etc.

Looking for some enthusiasm for that build basically smile
ive been meaning to do some demos for you as well but have had very few days off lately. Clarke sums it up pretty well though. They def have a unique character to them and sound absolutely awesome FM'd. I haven't been terribly thrilled with saw to sine wave though. its a bit lower volume wise (which is a known problem and i believe theres a small circuit in the best of thread to fix that) and i haven't spent the time to trim the shapes correctly.

its a bit of a ruff build but def worth it
limpmeat
for you peeps building the serge 73 vcf, are you using the buffers?

I'm building my own frankenstein 73 vcf/resEQ euro panel and was wondering if these buffers were necessary? What are the benefits?
iopop
Unless you're going to use attenuators on output, there is no need to use the buffers. See this line in the Notes list.
Quote:
Possible use for the buffers include buffering the input and CV input to compensate for their lower-than-usual input impedance, or buffering the outputs after they have been fed though a level pot, as per the panel in the photo.
Monobass
Ah yeah I did hear that negativspace piece before, very nice, thanks for reminding me Clarke. Ringstone and Rico Loverde, more would be very welcome though 8_)

'Rubbery' and 'FMs well' are pretty much all I need to hear. Yeah it's a slightly daunting build smile
lessavyfav
Hi thread, you are an old friend now. I am wiring up the comparator of my funky drummer this week and I can't find info on wiring the mixer part for the comparator. I've been trying to understand where to input to the mixer. On the cgs site they use the cgs04 but the mixer on the digital mouse is the way to go for this build. I tried to search but couldn't find any thing concrete. Tried digging through the best of thread but 20 pages on my iPhone got too tough. Can anyone help me? It seems like most folks finished this up 5 months ago. Hopefully someone who can help is still listening ;-)

Lest I seem like a TOTAL dumbass...My MSU is all working! As are the digital noise and click divider parts of my funky drummer!

Kindly,
Tim
rico loverde
lessavyfav wrote:
Hi thread, you are an old friend now. I am wiring up the comparator of my funky drummer this week and I can't find info on wiring the mixer part for the comparator. I've been trying to understand where to input to the mixer. On the cgs site they use the cgs04 but the mixer on the digital mouse is the way to go for this build. I tried to search but couldn't find any thing concrete. Tried digging through the best of thread but 20 pages on my iPhone got too tough. Can anyone help me? It seems like most folks finished this up 5 months ago. Hopefully someone who can help is still listening ;-)

Lest I seem like a TOTAL dumbass...My MSU is all working! As are the digital noise and click divider parts of my funky drummer!

Kindly,
Tim



lessavyfav
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
rico loverde
lessavyfav wrote:
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
no problemo!!
ringstone
Ok, couple of quick demos from the West Coast Mini Synth.

First off, sequenced from a Tiptop Z8000:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/mindlesseye/minisynthdemo1[/s]
This demo includes PWM'd square (I sacrificed one of the CV inputs to PWM), various waves from VCO1+2 in unison, them various examples of one wave FMing the other, ending on a short example of ringmod. Mixed using the VCA.
Then sequenced from a Roland MC-202 to demonstrate how they track to 1V/Oct:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/mindlesseye/minisynthdemo2[/s]
First straight with the VCA being gated, then various effects achieved by ringmodding one VCO with the other. There's a nice example in there of how the sin<->saw shaper morphs, when used as an LFO.

Sorry these are a bit frantic, just trying to show a wide range of textures in a short period of time. BTW Soundcloud seems to have brought out some nasty aliasing in these, it's definitely not there in the originals...

Cheers
Blair
bkbirge
Now that might just be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of me finally finishing up wiring that bad boy, thanks!

rico loverde wrote:
lessavyfav wrote:
Hi thread, you are an old friend now. I am wiring up the comparator of my funky drummer this week and I can't find info on wiring the mixer part for the comparator. I've been trying to understand where to input to the mixer. On the cgs site they use the cgs04 but the mixer on the digital mouse is the way to go for this build. I tried to search but couldn't find any thing concrete. Tried digging through the best of thread but 20 pages on my iPhone got too tough. Can anyone help me? It seems like most folks finished this up 5 months ago. Hopefully someone who can help is still listening ;-)

Lest I seem like a TOTAL dumbass...My MSU is all working! As are the digital noise and click divider parts of my funky drummer!

Kindly,
Tim



clarke68
lessavyfav wrote:
It seems like most folks finished this up 5 months ago.

Ha! Not even close...I just started my MSU last weekend. Just about done populating the boards now, so a few late nights of panel wiring to go before I find out it doesn't work and need all of your help debugging! Mr. Green
Monobass
ringstone wrote:
Ok, couple of quick demos from the West Coast Mini Synth.

Sorry these are a bit frantic, just trying to show a wide range of textures in a short period of time.


Perfect! thanks Blair smile
teethgrinder
hi ,
i've started building a minisynth

i've first ordered 2 cgs64 at elbydesigns and now i wonder how to wire this 2 vcas in order to fit in clarke's panel.

i've drawed this basic wiring




is this correct ?
craque
Finished the CGS Burst Generator!



More details and examples here: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67933

So proud of this little guy!
teethgrinder
teethgrinder wrote:
hi ,
i've started building a minisynth

i've first ordered 2 cgs64 at elbydesigns and now i wonder how to wire this 2 vcas in order to fit in clarke's panel.

i've drawed this basic wiring




is this correct ?


hi,

any help would be appreciated thumbs up
lessavyfav
Hey Y'all I've FINALLY after a 2 month absence finished wiring up my funky drummer. All lights up.
Digital noise: CHECK!
Logic: CHECK!
PulseDivider: SEMI-CHECK. It seems to be resetting at 10 or something weird... /2 fires on 2,4,6,8, but skips 10./4 fires on 4 and 10, /8 skips 8 but fires on 10? Definitly Funky hmmm.....
Gated Comparator: CHECK? I feel a bit like a dumb ass. It is doing something cool but I have no idea if it is right. See my future thread titled "Funky Drummer? What does my Gated Comparator/Klee do?"
pre55ure
With the second run of these panels coming out- Just wondering if anyone has a mouser project or bom for the MSU?
ringstone
BOMs can be found on the relevant pages on Ken Stone's CGS site. For the MSU you are looking at:

Wave Multipliers
Serge VCF
Steiner Synthacon VCF

Note that there are occasionally small variations in the CGS BOMs from what you actually end up requiring due to minor revisions or optional parts of a build.

Cheers
Blair
frozenkore
lessavyfav wrote:
Hey Y'all I've FINALLY after a 2 month absence finished wiring up my funky drummer. All lights up.
Digital noise: CHECK!
Logic: CHECK!
PulseDivider: SEMI-CHECK. It seems to be resetting at 10 or something weird... /2 fires on 2,4,6,8, but skips 10./4 fires on 4 and 10, /8 skips 8 but fires on 10? Definitly Funky hmmm.....
Gated Comparator: CHECK? I feel a bit like a dumb ass. It is doing something cool but I have no idea if it is right. See my future thread titled "Funky Drummer? What does my Gated Comparator/Klee do?"


Grats! I really need to start wiring mine d'oh!
jessem
Anyone know where to find CGS36 PCBs if CGS site is out of stock?
rico loverde
jessem wrote:
Anyone know where to find CGS36 PCBs if CGS site is out of stock?
maybe elby or you will have to wait til Ken makes more
msprigings
Can someone post just a raw waveform in to the Grinder with some twiddling. Currently when I send say a triangle in and turn the knobs clockwise is get some high frequency oscillations that get worse the more I turn each knob. I tried various LM358's. Any thoughts?
teethgrinder
hi ,

iv'e built two cgs-64 vcas and it seems it's working but signal (vco or noise) bleeds a lot on both vcas.
i've adjusted trimmers the best i can but i still hear signal even level pot fully CCW
Do i have to recheck transistor matching (i've purchased full kits with components from elby designs)

thank you
Dego
I had that problem and then I changed my PSU and the bleed thru disappeared. That was after I changed all the transistors first...

So try another PSU first smile
teethgrinder
both vcas are powered by a standard doepfer PSU (ie -12/+12v)
so i'll try another one.
Thank you thumbs up
negativspace
I had an issue with my MiniSynth where the oscillators were crossmodulating... turned out to be a flaky ground connection at the PSU end. Fixed that and it's all silent. You might also check to be sure you've cleaned all the flux from the PCBs - some kinds of flux can carry signals which results in similar behavior. (Water-wash fluxes in particular.)
withakay
So after desoldering all the 2N3906s soldering them back and then realising they were right the first time and I was just missing a link so I had to desolder again and reverse and then repair the by now butchered PCB I finally have the first have of my Quad Slope working!

Building late into the night, after a days work, is not a great idea for me! Need more free time!

Anyway, just waiting for some bits so I can finish up the second board (which is equally as butchered).

At least I think I have learnt to do the ties first whilst the board is empty and they are easy to spot. I hope I have learnt that anyway!!

Thanks to all who posted here, there were some great tips that helped me debug my mauled PCB
rockwoofstone
Today I finished my QUSG - not the easiest build I've done, but all working now. The only problems I had were with lifted pads on the PCB, but easily, if tediously solved. Cracking looking panel, thanks Clark, and thanks to Ken for the CGS114 PCBs.

I'm sure my wiring isn't the neatest, but it works, so I'm happy. It's motherfucking bacon yo


pre55ure
Figured it was time for a June post...

Finally finished my CGS 114 dual slope boards and I'm having a hard time making sense of the wiring guide on the CGS website. According to the diagram - it shows the VC in pot (attenuvertor?) connecting to 0v, the VC input jack and the wiper going to "FB" on the board. (this is how I currently have it wired up and there is attenuating but no attenuverting) seriously, i just don't get it

-On the list of inputs for the board there is an input for CW vc in pot, wiper vc in pot, and ccw vc in pot. So I'm thinking I just need to run the pot to these three inputs and then run the vc input jack to "F"?

Can anyone confirm this? I'd just like to know if this is how it works before I rewire the whole thing.

EDiT- For anyone asking this same question in the future- The answer is #2. Rewired and now it works as expected.
dualmono
Quick (and probably stupid) question: does each slope of the Quad Slope auto-cycle? I see a Trigger In, but no switch for cycle mode, hence my question.

Or is the Trigger In a switch jack, so you get auto auto cycle when nothing is inserted into that jack?

Thanks.
pre55ure
dualmono wrote:
Quick (and probably stupid) question: does each slope of the Quad Slope auto-cycle? I see a Trigger In, but no switch for cycle mode, hence my question.

Or is the Trigger In a switch jack, so you get auto auto cycle when nothing is inserted into that jack?

Thanks.


Trigger out jack -> trigger in jack, will make it cycle.

You could always use a switched jack and wire it that way internally depending if you use them more often as LFO's or Envelopes/function generators. Or add a switch.
dualmono
Thanks for clearing that up.
Although... I don't get how it could send a trigger out without cycling to start the cycle. *cough
Is the trigger out an end of cycle event?
appliancide
dualmono wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up.
Although... I don't get how it could send a trigger out without cycling to start the cycle. *cough
Is the trigger out an end of cycle event?


Yes it is.
rockwoofstone
Just something to watch for if you normal the trigger out to trigger in to have the unit automatically cycle if you have nothing plugged in the trigger...

If you do this, then you may get problematic behaviour when you feed an input into the standard "input", but have nothing plugged into the trigger in; i.e. your input will start a cycle, and the normalled input will also be trying to start cycles. This becomes a problem if you're trying to slew CVs, and give you glitches, so something to bear in mind.
dualmono
I see.
Thanks for the heads up.

Still don't understand how the unit could auto cycle if it needs a trigger to start in the first place (which it should get from itself by patching trigger out to trigger in, but if it doesn't cycle, how does it generate a trigger for itself?).
Chicken/egg problem.

I know it works, but... how?!
sad banana
appliancide
dualmono wrote:
I see.
Thanks for the heads up.

Still don't understand how the unit could auto cycle if it needs a trigger to start in the first place (which it should get from itself by patching trigger out to trigger in, but if it doesn't cycle, how does it generate a trigger for itself?).
Chicken/egg problem.

I know it works, but... how?!
sad banana


The trigger out is, as you said earlier, an end of cycle signal. That output sits at about 5-6V when the unit is not cycling.
appliancide
Check out Tim Stinchcombe's VCS page for some deeper theory, but also for the scope shots, which give a clear picture of what it is doing at a given point in the cycle.

http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=vcs
appliancide
Check out Tim Stinchcombe's VCS page for some deeper theory, but also for the scope shots, which give a clear picture of what it is doing at a given point in the cycle.

http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=vcs
dualmono
Oh, it is 5-6V high when idle, ok. That didn't occur to me.
Thanks for pointing that out and for the link. thumbs up
Jonachi
double
Jonachi
Double post
Jonachi
I'm building the Quad slope.

Ken writes:

Quote:
2N3906 can be substituted for the 2N4250 and 2N3904 substituted for the 2N5089. Note that the pinouts of these transistors will differ.
2N3563 can be any general purpose NPN such as 2N3904. Note that the pinouts of these transistors will differ.


I'm doing this, anyone know how the placement of both transistors should be? I'm not to good with data sheets.
Jonachi
pre55ure wrote:
Figured it was time for a June post...

Finally finished my CGS 114 dual slope boards and I'm having a hard time making sense of the wiring guide on the CGS website. According to the diagram - it shows the VC in pot (attenuvertor?) connecting to 0v, the VC input jack and the wiper going to "FB" on the board. (this is how I currently have it wired up and there is attenuating but no attenuverting) seriously, i just don't get it

-On the list of inputs for the board there is an input for CW vc in pot, wiper vc in pot, and ccw vc in pot. So I'm thinking I just need to run the pot to these three inputs and then run the vc input jack to "F"?

Can anyone confirm this? I'd just like to know if this is how it works before I rewire the whole thing.

EDiT- For anyone asking this same question in the future- The answer is #2. Rewired and now it works as expected.


Thanks been wondering about this too. I read it the same way as you #2 and hopefully it will work! Doing the wiring right now.
keninverse
Jonachi wrote:
I'm building the Quad slope.

Ken writes:

Quote:
2N3906 can be substituted for the 2N4250 and 2N3904 substituted for the 2N5089. Note that the pinouts of these transistors will differ.
2N3563 can be any general purpose NPN such as 2N3904. Note that the pinouts of these transistors will differ.


I'm doing this, anyone know how the placement of both transistors should be? I'm not to good with data sheets.


I used 3904s and 3906s throughout the build. I know I simply reversed the transistors for the 2N4250s and 2N3563 but I don't exactly remember if I used 2N5089s. I do remember finally resorting to looking at the schematic and the datasheets of the transistors I was using to verify the position of the transistors then went further by double checking using a cheap multimeter measuring transistor hfe to confirm for the correct pinout. PM me later tonight and I'll pull my quad slope from my rack so I can check for you.
Jonachi
Thanks for the help. No need to check though, I checked all the datasheetes, double checked them and then soldered all of them backwards. Should work.

The wiring of this thing is killing me though, I'm really glad that so many of you walked this path before me, and also really glad for the instructions from Clarke68. Just can't deal with one sided PCB's though. Things get really sticky and messy really fast, and don't even think about de-soldering. Arggh.. I hope it is really worth it in the end...

Just got one more slope to wire. I'll rest until tomorrow though.
synthcube
We're happy to announce that we are stocking the Quad Slope panel again in addition to many of the other cgs modules with clarke68 panels.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47067&highlight=quad +slope
Monobass
Hey all, I have panel/PCB combos in stock at Thonk for the Quad Slope and 'West Coast MiniSynth'

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/cgs-quad-slope-eurorack-panel-pcb-set/

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/cgs-west-coast-mini-synth-eurorack-panel-p cb-set/


snufkin
just got allot of these panels +from thonk ect has anyone got videos of any complete clarke68 systems

would be cool to see those kind of set-ups or thoughts on them
Jonachi
Quad slope is amazing!
GNSDG
Wow, just read this thread start to finish. Awesome!

I'm pulling parts together for a quad slope, and I can't seem to find 5V6 400mw zeners at Mouser. I assume 5.6V is critical, but can I fudge the current?

Thank you!
pre55ure
pretty sure I used 5.6v @500 and it works fine.
GNSDG
Awesome, thank you. Order placed!
smrl
5.6v zener diodes aren't critical. Pretty sure they're just used to clamp the "end out" voltage to 5.6v. The LM3900 output there will swing to nearly the positive supply voltage.
GNSDG
Good to know. Actually got them (along with the rest of my parts order) from Mouser the other day, so right now I'm just figuring out how exactly I'm going to mount the two boards.

I had planned to use like .75" standoffs, but I think the 47ufs I have are too tall. Might have to pull them and lay them flat.

Did everyone find it necessary to use a trimmer along with the 1k5s to get 3-4 octaves tracking?
ZibraZibraZibra
Ooh yeah ordering the stuff for the quad slope generator tomorrow.

The power connections seem a possible challenge.. Really don't wanna use pronto board! hmmm.....
GNSDG
Yeah, power... not sure about that, either. I have a shrouded header for this, but I'm not sure whether to use some kind of a mini daughter board to mount it or just sort of go PTP and like epoxy it to the back of the panel.

The latter seems quite inelegant.
GNSDG
I know there hasn't been much activity on this thread for a while, but I could use some clarification of the BPO and D outputs. From the schem I'd assume that BPO gets connected to the output labelled "Bipolar" on the panel, and the D is unused, but Ken's notes sort of confuse the matter.

Anyone clear that up?

Thanks!
smrl
Both "BPO" and "D" are centered around 0V - you could use either. The difference is that BPO is ac-coupled, and D is DC-coupled and inverted. "BPO" is actually "DCO" through a 47uF capacitor with a 1M pulldown resistor. Confusingly it's not shown on the schematics. "D", which is shown as 'bipolar out' on the schematics, is an inverted and voltage-shifted version of DCO. So it's at 2.5v when the envelope is off, and -2.5v at its peak.

Why would you use either one? Well, BPO will probably work better for FM, as it won't deviate the overall pitch of the FM'd oscillator (because it's centered around 0v, whereas "D" is centered approximately at 0v.) But the BPO output will go dead at lower frequencies. The "D" output won't have that behavior, but the inverse voltage might be a bit counterintuitive. On the other hand, i've found it useful. I also chose to amplify the bipolar output so it swings +/-5v, giving a more eurorack-friendly level for use as an oscillator, and a bit more extreme range as a modulation source. Note that if you choose do that you have to change the value of the feedback resistor (as well as the resistor from inverting input to -V?)
GNSDG
Wow, smrl, what a thorough reply--thank you.

Sounds like I'll stick with the BPO, but I'm interested in hearing more about bringing it up to +/-5V--did you add a gain stage to do this?
smrl
you'd have to build an amplifier to buffer the "BPO" signal. The "D" signal can be amplified easily by just changing around resistors at that inverting op-amp it's derived from.

Also, regarding your other question, I did try to trim the 1v/oct response, with well-matched transistors, 1.5k resistor and trimmer... It's not worth too much effort. Even the tracking I got was sort of averaged across 3 octaves or so. It's approximately 1v/oct, and only for a few volt span, and i wouldn't waste too much effort on trying to make it great. It won't be. But just sticking a trimmer in there is easy.
GNSDG
Oh, I see--read your first post too quickly. Using D to achieve something closer to +/-5V does sound worthwhile for regular VCO duties, and I can't imagine that the inversion matters too much in an audio context (unless I'm doing heavy unison stuff).

Maybe I'll do two sections with that amplified-D arrangement and two with the regular BPO output connected. Or maybe I'll change my mind.

If you don't mind sharing specifics as far as those feedback and supply resistor changes, I'd be really appreciative! No worries if not, TBH I haven't even looked at the schem again so I might be ok.

I'm not thinking these guys will make amazingly full-featured VCOs, but a couple solid octaves' worth of tracking will help me do some nice chord stuff.
snufkin
here is a screenshot of the planned CGS/Clarke/J3rk/Blacet system I am building which will also include a time machine delay hopefully running on a 12--->15 supply adaptor


the plan is to have a west-ish-serge ish system that can also be played as a four voice synth

can't decide if i should double up on the west coast mini synth yet or go with to different oscillators and some other useful stuff I think I need a few mixers Mr. Green
fudog
does anyone have a mouser bom for the quad slope?

cheers
synthcube
snufkin wrote:
here is a screenshot of the planned CGS/Clarke/J3rk/Blacet system I am building which will also include a time machine delay hopefully running on a 12--->15 supply adaptor


the plan is to have a west-ish-serge ish system that can also be played as a four voice synth

can't decide if i should double up on the west coast mini synth yet or go with to different oscillators and some other useful stuff I think I need a few mixers Mr. Green


That is an awesome looking setup! Keep us posted on progress!
GNSDG
Yeah, absolutely! Makes me want to build all those other modules.

Anyone have power connection advice? I'd reeeaaally like to use a ribbon cable for this.
micro101
Order placed - can not wait to start the soldering
negativspace
You definitely need some utilities with that setup... the MVP was specifically designed to go with a WCMS and a MSU. 8_)

Jonachi
rico loverde wrote:
On 1 the switch is messing with the fall and rate times depending where the switch position is. If switch is at rise the rise pot works, if at fall the fall pot works. When at both neither pot works. :despair


I have the same exact problem, did you solve it?
solaris
sorry for squatting the thread but maybe I do not need to start a new one
for this quick question (used the search but found nothing):

is still possible to buy a kit (PCBs + components) for the west-coast mini synth?

I may as well buy one already assembled...

thanks!
Jonachi
not componentes, but panel and pcb's over here:

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/cgs-west-coast-mini-synth-eurorack-panel-p cb-set/

Component kits are sold by Elby (however their site seems to be down).

http://www.elby-designs.com/
solaris
thank you!
nathanxl
What kind of depth can I expect to the Quad Slope module, difficult to tell with the pics posted here.
I need it as shallow as possible because I want to put it into a shallow skiff...
rockwoofstone
nathanxl wrote:
What kind of depth can I expect to the Quad Slope module, difficult to tell with the pics posted here.
I need it as shallow as possible because I want to put it into a shallow skiff...


If you mount the two boards next to each other, rather than stacked, you should be able to get it in a skiff. Clarke68 posted a picture somewhere near the start of the thread that showed this solution.
negativspace
Yeah, the QS can be done 1-board-deep and should fit into any skiff. Here's a shot of one of mine:



I used the existing holes to mount two rails and then mounted the PCBs to said rails.
bkbirge
While waiting for parts for other much more panel wiring friendly projects I decided to finally tackle the wiring of the Funky Drummer that has languished on my bench for 2 years.

And since there are very few pics of the wiring of this beast that I could find here is a little photo diary, maybe it will help others if only to show things to avoid.

I had already wired up and tested the pulse divider and boolean logic circuits as well as most of the ground bus a couple years ago so I picked up figuring out a plan to wire the comparator area and the led's knowing that if I just went in there without a plan I'd lose it, started with the led and pot ground bus...



Noise circuits wired in, prep for the comparator outputs...


A couple angles of the led/pot ground bus strategy...



A moment of inattention reminded me that I should take a break...


Comparator board all prepped ready to be paneled up, the tidiness did not last past this picture...


Not too bad yet, still can follow the flow by looking, grounding is all in and digi noise circuit hooked up...


Some of the comparator circuit in place. Then a quick breather while I contemplate jumping off the cliff that is the wiring of the 8 comparator pots...


The LED's and pots are wired in! At this point it occurs to me that this looks less like a master planned network of connectivity and more like the streets of Rome.


Here's a closeup. I don't know that I'd necessarily recommend my approach but I couldn't think of any other way to do this...


Finally all the wires are on there. I increased the standoff distance for this initial assembly because I'm expecting I'll be getting in there to troubleshoot...


I like to call this artistically organic...


All put together. I casually wonder what would happen if I took this to the airport.


Top view, note the lack of IC's, apparently I don't have 'em though I'm certain I had them when last I looked at this project, but oh well, it wouldn't be a DIY session without multiple mouser orders. I'm also thinking that wiring up the molex connectors for each board was completely unnecessary.


Here it sits, waiting on chips before I plug it in for testing.
negativspace
MY ASS IS BLEEDING applause
snufkin
Thanks that was really useful :3
Randy
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, something that becomes more and more clear to me every day. I could use a bit of advice with a CGS Synthacon filter, Eurorack format.

I recently bought the filter from someone and wanted to try calibrating it. The resonance was a bit on the wild side and getting it to be sort-of responding to 1v/oct was a challenge.

I found a thread or two and a web page or two mentioning removing two of the diodes and switching the polarity of one of the capacitors, which I did.

Now I don't have any resonance. The pot has some effect but very little. I've tried adjusting the trimpots again but nothing.

Did I end up reading a bunch of too old threads?

Thanks

Randy
Randy
Double post.
bkbirge
It's only been 2.5 years but now that I'm brave enough to tackle this where'd the pics get off too?


clarke68 wrote:
West Coast Mini Synth



Note that, even though it's not shown here, you must use a bracket to mount the PCBs to the West Coast Mini Synth panel.



The West Coast Mini Synth uses the following PCBs:

2 CGS48 - VCO
2 CGS64 - VCA
CGS67 - Active Real Ring Mod
CGS114 - DUSG
CGS04 - Mixer

Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Alpha Single-Gang 9mm Potentiometer, PC Mount
SmallBear - 1012
Mouser - 311-1902F

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

SP3T Toggle Switch
Mouser - 633-M202402-RO
Monobass
clarke68 wrote:
The knobs I used for my builds (all the photos below) are from Jameco. Obviously you can use any knobs you want, but it will help if you get the size close. Sizes and Jameco part #s are:

small - 0.55" - 136241
medium - 19.8mm - 264990
large (on MSU only) - 33.3mm - 264946


I'm now stocking these knobs, my naming is a little different to clarkes though so watch that!

Clarkes large I call 'medium'
Clarkes medium I call 'small skirted'
Clarkes small.... I"m not stocking yet, but will be in a couple of months.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/synth-pointer-knobs/

chrix
Hi Y'all!

Chrix here, haven't been posting much but read A LOT! Thanks to everyone sharing their builds!

I thought i'd post a few pics from the process of putting together a CGS MSU and a West Coast Mini Synth. the MSU is finished and worked from the first time i plugged it in, the WCMS… that's another story Dead Banana

This is my second build, if you count a x0xb0x i put together a few years back that i never really got the digital side working...

here's the MSU w waveshaper



and here it is w it all plugged in

[img=http://s26.postimg.org/3mblwjthh/IMG_6553.jpg]

General advice for any noob like me building anything:

- sharpie mark the back of the panel w everything. this helped me out SO much!

- make a habit out of double checking stuff. especially that the ICs and sockets are put in the correct way.

- sharpie mark all the pot values and cw / cow side of the terminals. I SHOULD have done this with the MSU, gonna have to redo a few cause they work the wrong way around…

- use L brackets. not the plain pieces of metal I resorted to out of laziness. don't be lazy in general smile

ok will post some WCMS pics in a minute
chrix
here's the WCMS:

back of panel w mirrored front sharpied.


the pots i got for the sine to saw had to be glued in place, so those came in later.

Here it is w home made "brackets" and the vcas in place.

I decided to put these in first, as it would allow me to keep them sort of in place but still reach the terminals below when i install the module on top of them.



This is the WCMS w vcas at the bottom and DUSG on top. this is moments after i tested it - not fully connected to all the pots… and with one of the TL072 in the wrong way. result: bang and flash!

I think it was the tl072 that blew but if anyone has any other ideas about what could have been damaged please advice.



after this i took out all the pots and jacks connected to the DUSG, took a fresh TL072 from one of the unconnected oscillators and tried connecting the other oscillator instead.



This oscillator Worked! (but not the sine)

I had missed replacing the 20k resistors w 14k for 12V operation, and I had none around, so tried a few high tolerance value 15K and found two that were closer to 14k then 15k… Works all right!

I calibrated the o/c using the pulse output but the sine to saw is not working at all! any ideas on this? anyone else had this problem???

I hope it's not the pots because they are pretty much staying w the glue i used hahaha!

thanks and happy soldering y'all!
the bad producer
Is the jumper missing?
chrix
@the bad producer - YES!

AAAAAHRG! we're not worthy THANK YOU! smile
the bad producer
I've missed loads of them over the years! thumbs up
spotta
bkbirge wrote:
While waiting for parts for other much more panel wiring friendly projects I decided to finally tackle the wiring of the Funky Drummer that has languished on my bench for 2 years.

And since there are very few pics of the wiring of this beast that I could find here is a little photo diary, maybe it will help others if only to show things to avoid.

I had already wired up and tested the pulse divider and boolean logic circuits as well as most of the ground bus a couple years ago so I picked up figuring out a plan to wire the comparator area and the led's knowing that if I just went in there without a plan I'd lose it, started with the led and pot ground bus...



Noise circuits wired in, prep for the comparator outputs...


A couple angles of the led/pot ground bus strategy...



A moment of inattention reminded me that I should take a break...


Comparator board all prepped ready to be paneled up, the tidiness did not last past this picture...


Not too bad yet, still can follow the flow by looking, grounding is all in and digi noise circuit hooked up...


Some of the comparator circuit in place. Then a quick breather while I contemplate jumping off the cliff that is the wiring of the 8 comparator pots...


The LED's and pots are wired in! At this point it occurs to me that this looks less like a master planned network of connectivity and more like the streets of Rome.


Here's a closeup. I don't know that I'd necessarily recommend my approach but I couldn't think of any other way to do this...


Finally all the wires are on there. I increased the standoff distance for this initial assembly because I'm expecting I'll be getting in there to troubleshoot...


I like to call this artistically organic...


All put together. I casually wonder what would happen if I took this to the airport.


Top view, note the lack of IC's, apparently I don't have 'em though I'm certain I had them when last I looked at this project, but oh well, it wouldn't be a DIY session without multiple mouser orders. I'm also thinking that wiring up the molex connectors for each board was completely unnecessary.


Here it sits, waiting on chips before I plug it in for testing.

I had been planing to crack on with mine soon until I saw this post!
No rush.......
bkbirge
spotta wrote:

I had been planing to crack on with mine soon until I saw this post!
No rush.......


lol zombie w00t
chrix
Hmm… soldered in the bridge and was planning to blast the old KRS one classic "the Bridge is Over" and jump around in celebration, but plugged the module in and it now makes the -12 LEDs on the rails go out and all the modules in the doepfer case freak out…

i'm rehearsing out of town so will have to wait and do more tests back home to figure it out.

I might go back to using the 20k resistor at pin 3 of the LM311 as it did work like that before and work from there again.
the bad producer
Is there any chance you could post a good pic of the underneath of the PCB? Sounds like you may have a short between -V and GND that only came into play when you put the jumper in?
chrix
Thanks, the bad producer!

here are three shots, I cut the +12 and -12 wires to the VCAs (tested and working) but left the 0v in as it connects to the osc jacks through the board. also took out the bridge again and the short is still there…

thanks for looking at this!





fuzzbass
My hat is off to anyone who completes the West Coast Mini Synth. This is the most densely packed euro module ever. Depending on options selected, there are around eighty panel wires to deal with. The reward is unprecedented functionality in a small space.

Once you use the DUSG for envelope control, you may never go back to your ADSR. The range is crazy. You can have a transient that reaches peak in five minutes, and drops back down in 20 microseconds.

I finished mine this morning, after a good bit of debugging. I didn't care for the CGS48 wave shaping, so I didn't implement it. Instead, I used the space on VCO1 for PWM and one VCO2 for voltage processing. VCO 1 has AC FM input, and VCO 2 has sync input. VCO 2 has staircase (suboscillator) output. I'm not that crazy about the sync input. It works, but not in a way I find pleasing.

Here is the result:



The first module I built was the DUSG, and I wired it up with disconnects. These were too bulky and I had to abandon the idea after that.



I built my own power distribution from solderless [edit: SB404 solderable] breadboard. Here you can see the power distribution. I ganged the VCA power from the VCOs.



I found that standard red LEDs on the slope generators were dragging down the V+ rail, and it was clearly audible in the VCO pitch. I solved this going to superbright blue LEDs, with high value resistors (47K). They are drawing much less current for same relative brightness, and the VCOs are stable.
chrix
Wow! Hats off fuzzbass!

very well done, like the colour scheme on the sections btw!
bkbirge
Oh man, I really need to get my WCMS done, great build!
clarke68
fuzzbass wrote:
My hat is off to anyone who completes the West Coast Mini Synth.

Indeed...and my hat is off to you sir. Great work! woah
snufkin
clarke68 wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
My hat is off to anyone who completes the West Coast Mini Synth.

Indeed...and my hat is off to you sir. Great work! woah


Inhave to do two

not looking forward to it hihi

looking forward to the sound though we're not worthy
fuzzbass
Next up: The MSU. This one was much easier to build than the Mini Synth. On the CGS29, I liked what I heard right away, so I didn't bother swapping out the Texas Instruments LM358 and trying other versions, per Ken's suggestion.

Thank you clarke68!





drip.feed
Any demos of the funky drummer? seriously, i just don't get it
medbot
Hey everyone. I just got a Quad Slope put together last weekend and I'm having some trouble with it. Everything works fine except there is some kind of CV bleed from every channel to every other. For instance, if I patch trigger in to trigger out on all channels to get them oscillating then patch audio out from one of them, I can hear the signal being modulated by all three other channels.

Also, I've noticed that changing the position of the VC In switch has an effect on the pitch of the signal, even with nothing plugged into it.

Since it's happening consistently on all channels across 2 PCBs and everything else is working as it should, I'm hoping it's something relatively easy, but I just don't know where to start looking on a build this complicated. Any help would be appreciated, my troubleshooting skills just aren't high enough level for this one. Thanks!
medbot
Well I redid the power and it fixed a good chunk of the bleed. I had made a small typical Eurorack power input on a piece of stripboard (pin headers, 10r resistors, ceramic and electro caps) but removed that and replaced it with just a pin header. Now there is no bleed between boards, but still a bit from channel to channel on the same PCB. Oddly, it only happens when the VC In switch is set to either rise or fall. Good enough for now though, I'm tired of working on this one mad
fuzzbass
Disconnect your LEDs and check to see if there is improvement.

In my build, using stock red LEDs and whatever limiting resistors were recommended (I can't recall but probably something <1K), the LEDs were dragging down the +12V rail, and it was audibly affecting other parts of the circuit. I improved upon this by using superbright LEDs and choking them down to low brightness with high value limiting resistors. I used blue LEDs and 47K resistors. These draw less current for the same apparent brightness. There are also white superbright LEDs that would work.
medbot
Thanks fuzzbass, I'll give that a try next time I pull it out of the rack.
jflower
Woo! getting real close now!




Tomorrow it's time to wire the power, stuff the chips, and screw down all the pcbs. This is fun!

Man, the wiring on this one is a total bitch! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
search64
Oh dear, what have I gotten myself into. Going to build the Quad Slope. Hopefully I won't screw it up too badly smile

Does anybody have a demo on soundcloud or on youtube? Couldn't find it anywhere.
clarke68
search64 wrote:
Does anybody have a demo on soundcloud or on youtube? Couldn't find it anywhere.


Keep in mind the Quad Slope is a very flexible module that can be used to do a lot of different things. hyper In this case, it's 2 oscillators and 2 envelope generators.
search64
rico loverde wrote:
heres some of my DUSG build shots. Just gotta wire to the pcbs now.









I don't understand the wiring here. I can see why one side of the pots would be daisy-chained like this, as the ground line, but not both sides. Can someone explain?
search64
rico loverde wrote:
heres some of my DUSG build shots. Just gotta wire to the pcbs now.









I don't understand the wiring here. I can see why one side of the pots would be daisy-chained like this, as the ground line, but not both sides. Can someone explain?
medbot
I could be wrong since it's been a while since I built mine, but I think it's ground on one side and +12v on the other, so you can chain them both. Just make sure you get them right, or you'll be like me and have reversed pots. very frustrating hihi
search64
medbot wrote:
I could be wrong since it's been a while since I built mine, but I think it's ground on one side and +12v on the other, so you can chain them both. Just make sure you get them right, or you'll be like me and have reversed pots. very frustrating hihi


Ok that makes sense. But the poles seem reversed indeed. So a fully opened pot would be in fact 0v.
medbot
It kind of still makes sense in practice though. If you think of rise and fall like an envelope, where turning the knob clockwise makes the segments longer, then it is backwards. But if you think of it like a looping modulation source, then turning the knobs clockwise makes the modulation rate increase, which makes sense. Something will be backwards no matter how you wire it, but you'll get used to it either way.
jackmattson
Are there good videos illustrating the cgs modules?
I'm not getting much on YouTube and want to hear the MSU and Clarke's pairing with the filters in the original post.
search64
negativspace wrote:
Yeah, the QS can be done 1-board-deep and should fit into any skiff. Here's a shot of one of mine:



I used the existing holes to mount two rails and then mounted the PCBs to said rails.


In the middle of my build right now (boards ready, wiring up next), and I must say your photo is really helpful! One thing though... The trannies in the middle bottom of both boards, isn't that the wrong way round, or aren't you using 3904s there?

I'm using pin headers and dupont cables for wiring. Anyone else do that with these boards as well?
search64
Ok crunch time, need your help debugging!

So the Quad Slope is done, but not working well yet. If I plug it in the LEDs light up all the time. None of the four parts self-oscillate, and if one of the Bipolar outs can't be connected to anything without shorting the entire modular. The trimmers don't seem to do much... What do I check? Since all four parts behave the same, I must have screwed something up...
search64
clarke68 wrote:
search64 wrote:
Does anybody have a demo on soundcloud or on youtube? Couldn't find it anywhere.


Keep in mind the Quad Slope is a very flexible module that can be used to do a lot of different things. hyper In this case, it's 2 oscillators and 2 envelope generators.


Wait, it seems that the LEDs always on is how it should be. How do you get them to selfoscillate without patching the trigger in to trigger out? Or did you connect the jacks behind the panel?
Jop
Finished the quad slope, what's left is the mini..... Guinness ftw!



Dogma
hey guys - im not sure if I should start my own thread or if this is relevant here - Im looking to get some Serge. An Animal/animoo/creature M-class panel(s) would be great but totally unaffordable..

I found these guys and i REALLY like what i see http://randomsource.net/modules

I wanna do both filters and the dusg - I like the precision parts and already done SMD....has anyone worked with them? Quality?
snufkin
Can't wait to hear more samples of these modules, I have a four voice system planned based on them and would love to hear some clips

I know they will sound the same as the serge format projects on here but still would love to hear more from the West coast mini synth etc
muncky
Dogma wrote:
hey guys - im not sure if I should start my own thread or if this is relevant here - Im looking to get some Serge. An Animal/animoo/creature M-class panel(s) would be great but totally unaffordable..

I found these guys and i REALLY like what i see http://randomsource.net/modules

I wanna do both filters and the dusg - I like the precision parts and already done SMD....has anyone worked with them? Quality?




I built a Quad Slope with RS DUSGs - cinch to build, and seem to work well. Built in 4u tho, so not ready for this thread... Dead Banana
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