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dc cables for silent way resource thread
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers  
Author dc cables for silent way resource thread

Matos









okay, since sometimes things are not as clear as they seem I'm putting together this thread to help all us silent way new jacks to get our glorious hustle on.
so, if you have a dc coupled interface but are confused by the cable issue, this might help. if anything i post is off, let me know.
so as you know, normal stereo cables wont work as outlines in the manual. See below...
Quote:
In general special cables are recommended when using a DC-coupled audio interface as a source of CVs. Most audio interfaces have balanced outputs (on TRS ('stereo') jacks or XLRs), while synth CV inputs are unbalanced (usually on TS ('mono') jacks or minijacks). If you use a regular stereo or mono jack lead, you'll be shorting out one of the balanced output signals (usually the R (ring) to the S (shield)). While this probably wouldn't be a problem for normal audio use, when outputting the sustained voltages that are useful as CVs you risk damaging the interface hardware.
The usual recommendation is to make up special cables with a TRS jack at one end and a TS at the other, connecting T->T (tip to tip) and S->S (shield to shield) while leaving the R (ring) floating i.e. unconnected.

An alternative is to wire a TRS jack to two TS jacks, connecting one T->T/S->S and the other R->T/S->S. This then gives you two copies of the output CV, one of them inverted, which is particularly useful from LFOs. Note that this cable configuration is identical to that of a regular "Y" audio insert lead.


so, to buy premade cables of awesomeness, there are two choices i'm aware of...
sly-goose
http://www.slygoosecables.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flyp age=flypage.tpl&product_id=16&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Ite mid=2

and the always great ad infinitum
http://www.alexiles.com/
alex does make these special on request( you need to email him) but as of now(sept 2011..for all you in the future wigglers) he's swamped so it will take a hot minute.

EDIT by os:
Expert Sleepers now offer pre-made floating ring cables too:
http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/accessories.html
END edit

insert cables are a good choice
they look like this

and you can find more info here
http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSSTP20
you can get these anywhere, but you can peep the link to read more about the cables if you like. of course, the eurorack massive needs 1/8 not 1/4. evidently, any 1/4 to 1/8 adaptor will work, either mono or stereo. they look like this....



coupler also found this solution. Although this box is getting harder to find.
Rean NYS-SSR-8 1/4" Patch Box 8 Send/Return Modules ($35 - http://www.amazon.com/Rean-NYS-SSR-8-Patch-Return-Modules/dp/B000PHK1G G)
8ch TRS cable snake
16 1/4" to 1/8" adapters from monoprice (0.50 each) edit: you need STEREO (trs) adapters to make this work with the patch box

Quote:
The Patch Box is meant for send/return on mixers, which basically means it takes TRS in on one side and spits out TS and RS on the other for each input. You just run the snake from your interface into this box, and then you don't need any special cables made just for silent way. Those 1/4"-1/8" adapters are super cheap on Monoprice, so just get 16 of those and put them all in the TS/TR outputs and then you can just use your normal modular cables to connect to the box. Or if you use a larger format modular then you obviously don't need the adapters...

Rean is a company recently launched by Neutrik, so the quality is pretty nice. I can attest that based on handling this little box, it probably will probably hold up nicely. It's pretty heavy and feels very sturdy. I'm very happy that I randomly found this little magic box. I haven't been able to find anything else like it.


if your a crafty sort, you can make your own.
Ring Floating Method (probably what you want if CV is involved)
Tip -> Tip
Ring -> Nothing
Shield -> Shield



okay, that's all i got. Hopefully this helps. if i said something wrong or if you have any additional info, please chime in.
 

Bluebox









I build Silent Way compatible TRS-1/8" cables as well... PM me.

I use high-quality Instalux wirestock and premium Neutrik termination. At the moment I am offering black and purple wirestock with black heatshrink over the 1/8" plug, or black wirestock with black Neutrik termination and "carbon-fiber"-look PET sleeve over the length of the cable.

Here's a link to give you a rough idea of what these cables look like:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=636326&highlight=#63 5901

Sorry if this seems like spam, I don't mean it that way. Just figured I'd let people know I am making these cables (in addition to regular patch cables).

Cheers,
-ian
 

bsmith









One neato about using an insert cable kind of arrangement is that you get an inverted signal off the ring (as noted above) which can be useful.
I use these thingies out of my patch bay with a headphone adapter which I have collected a million of somehow over the years:
3.5mm TRS-Dual 3.5mm(F) Mono ($2 - $6)


and these are bitchin keen too to come out of the patch bay with a trs 1/4" to (trs' comes in the other side of what is seen in the image, take the signal out of the top black jacks for tip signal, the bottom red ones for ring inverted - I use a little adapter to convert to 3.5mm to take to euro when I use this thing):
Neutrik NYS-SSR-8 ($20-$30) - same as the rean thing matos linked to above.


 

vstace









Just chiming in to let you all know what I did to make a cheap floating ring patchbay. I had a 48 point deltron TRS patchbay laying around (I think it was less than $50 new) With this patchbay and perhaps many others, I was able to simply pull the guts out of a few pairs in the bay and disconnect the ring wire. Then I just used some 1/4 mono to 1/8 mono adapters with some instrument cables. The 1/4 to 1/8 mono adapters are 2 for $3 shipped on ebay. With only modding 3 stereo pairs I now have as 6 CV outs and the rest are regular TRS for recording or regular patching. Hope to help.
 

Tronketz









Is this thread specifically for OUTPUTTING DC?

In other words, will I risk damaging my audio interface if I want to build TS cables for INPUTTING DC? My audio interface (MOTU ultralite mk3) can already output DC.
 

os









The MOTU interfaces do not have DC-coupled inputs. Very few do (I can't think of any off-hand).

I suggest you use Silent Way CV Input, and regular balanced audio cables.
 

Tronketz









One more question: When using special cables to output computer CV, is the output bipolar or is it 0v and up?
 

os









I'll reply in the other thread you started.
 

vstace









I'm running out of DC outs on my interface.

Question: How can the inverted signal be used with the TRS split cables? Can the inverted ring side give me more usable pitch and gate outs? I'm guessing the pitch will be tracking backwards and the gate with be constant on, but can there be a new plugin developed to adjust for this?

Also, I assume it's possible and straight forward to run an ES-4 simultaneously with a DC coupled audio card?

Thanks
 

os









The inverted signal is only useful for e.g. LFOs where it gives you the opposite phase. It can't be used for extra CV/gate outs.

An ES-4 will run alongside the main DC-coupled outs fine (assuming you have S/PDIF out).

If the card is a MOTU make sure you read this thread.
 

skecr8r









Just to get this straight:

I want to send from a Motu Ultralite. I don't currently have a snake laying around, but I do have a bunch of 1/4 TRS cables. This will work as well, right?

From this thread I gather I could buy the Neutrik/Rean NYS SSR-8, and patch the outputs from my Motu into the input side. I can then plug-in 1/4 to 1/8 STEREO adapters into the black send part of the patchbox and output CV using regular 1/8 to 1/8 Eurorack cables.

Is the above correct?
 

os









It will work, but it ignores the "floating ring" advice.
 

skecr8r









... I thought that was exactly what the NYS SSR-8 did, sent out a S only signal and an inverted signal?

Why the hell isn't there just some dude in Europe that makes these cables if even that solution doesn't solve the problem? Sly Goose wants more for the shipping than their cables.

Should I just get insert cables instead (something like this: http://robbi-pa.dk/images/thumbnails/850x560/FFFFFF/images/30304762.jp g)? And some stereo convertes 1/4" to 1/8"?
 

os









I'm actually having some floating ring cables made - expect to have them for sale before the end of the month.

Insert cables are a good choice in the meantime.
 

skecr8r









So, insert cables doesn't have the ring problem, is that correct? So if I buy the snake pictured I don't need additional cables, or do I need to buy some eventually like the ones you are having made?
 

os









Insert cables effectively give you a floating ring. The downside is that you have a spare plug dangling around all the time, and you still need the 1/4" to 3.5mm adaptors.
 

Tronketz









os wrote:
I'm actually having some floating ring cables made - expect to have them for sale before the end of the month.


I want! Is this happening?
 

os









Yes - just waiting on the delivery.
 

Junk Rhythm









os wrote:
Yes - just waiting on the delivery.


Is there a chance that US distributors might some in the future?
 

os









I'd like to think so.
 

skecr8r









Will you post here when they become available? Would like to get some from the first batch :-)
 

os









Sure. I'll certainly post on the forum, if not this thread.
 

Tronketz









Could you take 10 minutes out of your day to e-mail me personally about this? thanks!

just kidding. Actually I really need cables to please get them for sale as soon as possible. we're not worthy
 

Tronketz









Hey os, could you give a new ETA? I'd like to wait for your cables rather than buying something else.
 

sandyb









os wrote:
Sure. I'll certainly post on the forum, if not this thread.

 

Juanjocov









I bought some "floating ring" cables from Control and I just realized from the pictures that they are 1/4 TRS to 1/8 TRS.
Aren't they supposed to be 1/4 TRS to 1/8 TS??
Is this going to be a problem??
 

Matos









It's fine. It's still floating and will act the same.
 

os









Not necessarily fine. A 3.5mm TRS jack has the ring in the place where a mono socket will expect the shield to be. So if you have a floating ring TRS 3.5mm plug you may end up with no shield-to-shield connection either.

Quote:
Hey os, could you give a new ETA?

I'm told to expect them next week now.
 

os









https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75682&start=0
 

Gogoolpex









I want to solder my own, but just to get started I want to order some cabels along with a motu ultralite.

so are those ok?
http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Stereo-Jack-Mono-Jac k-2x-Y-Insert-3m/52X

thanks!
 

os









Yes, but did you notice Expert Sleepers sell suitable cables now?
 

Gogoolpex









yes, but I want to get everything from one distributer. I will only use the plug-in at the beginning.
 

Hedefar









Hey guys.

I have a mono cable with 3.5mm jack in each end. Can I use it with a stereo TRS 1/4 adapter on one end to connect it to an output on my MOTU? This should work as "floating ring", right?

Just checking to be sure. I just bought a used 828mk3 to start using Silent Way but I would like to try it out with the cable I have, before I get other cables.

Thanks in advance for any replies!
 

os









No, that doesn't give you a floating ring.
 

Hedefar









os wrote:
No, that doesn't give you a floating ring.


Okay. Thank you for the quick response.

1/4 TS --> 1/8 TRS would not work, correct?
The only way to go is 1/4 TRS --> 1/8 TS, right?
 

os









Yup.

All that said, your stereo adaptor will work fine and let you test out Silent Way. It's just not recommended to use non-floating ring cables, for the health of your MOTU.

As far as I know, no-one has yet damaged a MOTU by using the wrong cables. But I can't recommend using the wrong cables, because I don't want anyone blaming me if they happen to be the first person who does manage to damage it somehow.
 

Hedefar









os wrote:
Yup.

All that said, your stereo adaptor will work fine and let you test out Silent Way. It's just not recommended to use non-floating ring cables, for the health of your MOTU.

As far as I know, no-one has yet damaged a MOTU by using the wrong cables. But I can't recommend using the wrong cables, because I don't want anyone blaming me if they happen to be the first person who does manage to damage it somehow.


Okay.
Thanks for the info!
 

Hemmerlinj









So I made some of my own cables and just wanted to check that I did it correctly.

I used TRS 1/4 and TRS 1/8 (only because that's what I could get at the moment)

I connected Tip to Tip

Sleeve to sleeve, and on the the 1/8 end I also connected the ring to sleeve as well. Thinking that since the jack might expect a mono plug anf possibly not make a connection with the sleeve so the ring would also be there for the connection.

I left the ring on the 1/4 side unconnected. This should work right?

I haven't tried them yet.

CHeers.
 

os









That all sounds fine.
 

Alfonso Guerrero









Hello, first post here.

I have a couple of questions:

What about using TS to TS cables? Would I still be risking my MOTU Ultralite MK3?

In case I still need to build my cables:

Should I leave the ring connected on the TRS end and disconnected on the TS end?

Thank you.
 

os









Quote:
What about using TS to TS cables? Would I still be risking my MOTU Ultralite MK3?

Yes, because the plug shield shorts the ring of the socket.

Quote:
Should I leave the ring connected on the TRS end and disconnected on the TS end?

Doesn't matter.
 

Alfonso Guerrero









Thank you!
 

Alfonso Guerrero









os wrote:
Quote:
What about using TS to TS cables? Would I still be risking my MOTU Ultralite MK3?

Yes, because the plug shield shorts the ring of the socket.

Quote:
Should I leave the ring connected on the TRS end and disconnected on the TS end?

Doesn't matter.


OK.

So I could leave the TRS ring connection without a wire soldered to it and there wouldn't be a problem?

Let's say:

TRS - TS

Tip - Tip
Shield - Shield
Ring - Without a wire soldered at all

Would that be fine?

Thank you again!
 

os









That would be fine.
 

Alfonso Guerrero









os wrote:
That would be fine.


Thank you so much!
 

Tomazzzi









Hi,

I just bought the Neutrik NYS-SSR-8 from ebay to connect my eurorack to silent way.



Now i need to buy the adaptors but something isn't clear.

Will those work ?



And i need 16 right ?
8 for cv and 8 for inverted cv ?
And then 8 standards jacks from the Neutrik to the Motu 828mk2 outputs ?

No risk of damage with this configuration ?

Thanks for your answers !
 

os









You really want mono 3.5mm - 1/4" adaptors. Better yet, buy some actual 3.5mm - 1/4" cables.

And stereo (TRS) jack leads to/from the MOTU.
 

Tomazzzi









Thanks a lot for your answer smile

So 16 X mono 3.5 to mono 6.35 adaptors

And 8 stereo to sterero 6.35 jacks.

Thx again !
 

dare











Hi guys, I usually use my ES-3 but I'm on the road at the moment and wondering about this configuration. I'm thinking that there's no ring in this but it's hard to tell what's going on inside the big connector. Any thoughts?

Sorry if this photo is massive..
 

os









Depends if the splitter is a stereo-to-mono splitter or a 'headphone splitter' (which would be stereo-to-2xstereo).
 

dare









I think the splitter is a stereo to 2 mono.
 

os









Then that would probably work fine.
 

GBR303









MacBook/Silent Way > ES-40/ESX-8CV > Banana Plugs

So TOSLink adapter > optical to coaxial converter> RCA > ES-40?

ESX-8CV Outs - I'm thinking either custom patch bay with 3.5mm sockets in and banana sockets out. Tips connected to banana outs.

Or, custom cable with 3.5mm jacks tip > banana?

I think I've got that right. Would prefer to do the custom patch bay as I hate making cables.

EDIT: swapped 3.5mm jack for RCA and added optical to coaxial converter
 

cupwise









i have a lynx aurora 8, with XLR outs
so what would be the easiest/cheapest way for me to do this?

couldn't i just make/use an xlr to 3.5mm cable and float the ring in that?
 

os









Yes, that should work, since the Aurora 8 is supposedly DC coupled.
 
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