4ms ROW POWER

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, Joe., analogdigital, infradead, lisa, parasitk, plord

User avatar
nofuture
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:50 am

Post by nofuture » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:07 am

Thanks Funky

User avatar
nofuture
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:50 am

Post by nofuture » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:08 am

Hi guys,

Just received my 4ms this morning and I notice something weird when I plugged it.

On the little manual that comes with the LED are:

+ 5V RED
+ 12V BLUE
- 12V WHITE

When I turned up mine they are:

+ 5V RED
+ 12V WHITE
- 12V BLUE

Is this normal or the IEC C5 aka Mickey Mouse cable could be inverted or there could be an other issue ? ( Ididn't try to plug any module ATM....)

Ah I just looked on 4ms website and the picture shows the same as on mine:

Image


EDIT:

So I tried with a module , it worked so I try with two, idem and with all idem so it seems that there's a mistake in the manual but everything worked fine.

User avatar
4mspedals
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by 4mspedals » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:38 am

Hey nofuture,
We actually changed the colors after the first batch, but didn't update the manual... Thanks for finding that!

User avatar
Infinity Curve
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:29 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Post by Infinity Curve » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:58 am

Quick question. I am currently using a ROW40 in my 6U system with no problems(mostly intellijel modules). However I have just started a new case and got a 2nd one and have run into a snag. It powers everything fine(PM modules from their system 10 and system 3), except the Pittsburgh Modular Synthesizer Box module. Everything works in the module...except the oscillator section(filter, VCA, envelope, LFO - all work). I tried the module again with the Cell48 case it came with, works as it should. Tried it with a uZeus, worked fine. All other modules work fine with the ROW 40. I've tried it with just the Synthesizer Box connected and same issue, no oscillator.

Any ideas why it won't work with the ROW40? I thought perhaps it was a 5v issue, but the ROW40 is noted as providing tons of 5v juice.

Am I missing something obvious? I've poured over all info I can find online and can't figure out where the issue lies.

User avatar
4mspedals
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by 4mspedals » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:19 pm

Hi, That's very odd indeed. So, does it work on the other Row Power you have?Also have you contacted Pittsburgh Modular to see if there's any reason just the osc section would not work while the rest of the module works? That would be odd if it's a power issue, I would first suspect something is loose or intermittent. Could it be perhaps the power cable itself (try swapping for a known-working power cable)? OR-- perhaps it's related to the CV/Gate bus? Do you know if the Synth Block uses that (I didn't see that info on their site)... On the Row Power, the CV/Gate bus are left open, so that shouldn't effect anything on the Synth Block, but maybe that's a clue... hmmm...

Anyways try seeing what the people at Pittsburgh Modular have to say.

User avatar
Infinity Curve
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:29 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Post by Infinity Curve » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:13 am

So the plot thickens. Dropped by to see my friends at Moog Audio to see if we couldn't get to the bottom of this. This is where things get even weirder.

My Synthesizer Box module...works fine in the Cell 48 case, works fine with my uZeus, doesn't work with my ROW40. Try it with their ROW40, doesn't work. Try it with their uZeus, doesn't work(?????)

Then we noticed they had a Synthesizer Box and a Synth Block(the older version) setup in a rack with a uZeus. Go to try them, and they are doing the exact same things as mine, everything works but the oscillator section, with a uZeus(???). Hooked them up to my Cell48, and they worked fine.

I am going to try and get a response out of Pittsburgh as there is definitely something weird going on and now I'm even more confused based on the above.

Will advise if I ever get to the bottom of it.

User avatar
SpecG
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:43 pm
Location: NYC

Post by SpecG » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:00 pm

I have the same issue ,ill try in my 48 case ...I thought I just couldn't figure it out(The box), both my 40s and my 30 powers everything fine no issues, no noise and cool :tu:

User avatar
Infinity Curve
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:29 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Post by Infinity Curve » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:40 am

Same on my end. I am running one ROW40 running 168HP of Intellijel stuff and just under 208HP of Pittsburgh, Intellijel and Make Noise on the other one, daisy chained off the one power brick and it runs perfectly. Only the Synthesizer Box is having any problems.

User avatar
HIMA
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:26 am

Post by HIMA » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:07 am

EDIT: Got some answers from Dan. I've included them here for future visitors.

Silly question time, but better i ask...

I have the 4MS EURO POWER DISTRO BOARD (KEYED HEADERS). All the slots seem exactly the same. does it matter which I connect to my Row Power?
No, but make sure to remove the 5V jumper, since the RP provides 5V.
I got it to replace a uZeus. So the next question is:

I didn't receive my 16-pin connector, so would it be possible to remove the flying bus from the uZeus (which has 2 connection headers) use it form the Row Power to the Distro Board?
Any power cable will work, I'm not sure exactly how the TipTop flying bus cable is set up, but if it has two female connectors then you can plug one into the RP and one into the Distro. You also could use a power cable from a module.

The Distro doesn't come with a 16-pin connector to attach to the Row Power because it's not designed to be used with a Row Power. The Distro is made for being a part of a DIY power installation project. Sorry if that was ever unclear... The RP and Distro will work together, but you have to supply your own cable to connect them (and the main disadvantage is that one end of the Distro with the fuses and tabs and voltage regulator is not used at all)
Lastly, my distro board, unlike the Bus Stick, has metal at the back. The Distro Board has holes for standoffs, but didn't come with any. It'll be in a Ikea Rast (wood). Can i just leave it on the wood?
**Probably** will be OK, since wood is not conductive. I would suggest screwing it down or somehow making sure it's not bouncing around inside the case. The holes on the distro are made for 4/40 or M3 screws. You might be able to use some 3M sticky pads if you double them up...
I'm dying to jack it in so any answers would be great. Thanks for your help.

EDIT: So thanks to Dan for his help on answering these during his Xmas day!
The Book of Bad Ideas - A compendium of knowledge from Muffs. Download it here: http://bit.ly/1oz2zaI

User avatar
fivefivefive
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:42 am

Post by fivefivefive » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:02 am

bout to get a Row Power 40 to replace a uzues for my main case. with the row 40 the 1.5 A of 5V will allow me to power a Monome/White Whale

I put an example of more or less what I would be running on the Row 40 into modular grid and got the following numbers ( https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/31596 )

974 mA +12V | 275 mA -12V | 600 mA 5V

I have a bit higher requirements for a standard 6U case due to the WW, a Qu-Bit Nebulae (320 mA of +12V), and one or two high power digital effects (e.g. the Erbe-Verb at 149 mA of +12V)

This seems to be within the specs of the Row 40, but since I'm assuming/counting on that each of the 1.5A of +12v, 1.25A of -12V, and 1.5A of 5V is available simultaneously I figured I would ask before making the purchase. The system above has a combined amperage of ~1800 mA. Will the Row 40 and it's standard 90W power brick be able to power this?

In the past I made a mistake with my uZeus because although it is rated for 1000 mA of 12V and 500 mA of -12V the wall wart itself can't supply more than 1000 mA at a time. In that case the combined +12V and -12V was around 1100 mA and eventually blew out the wall wart.

User avatar
sixty_n
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:28 pm

Post by sixty_n » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:09 am

@fivefivefive yes, it's all available simultaneously so you won't have a problem. The 90W power brick will easily power 2 row 40s chained together ( and probably more) so that won't give you any problems either

User avatar
indigoid
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1230
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 7:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by indigoid » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:46 am

I got the impression from the 4ms site that a 3-pin IEC plug is used to power the brick. Anyone able to tell me if the system ground is connected through to the earth pin on the IEC plug?
Zap him again! ZAP THE SONOFABITCH AGAIN!

User avatar
Barlov
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:17 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Barlov » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:53 am

The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.

User avatar
ianross
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:09 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post by ianross » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:35 pm

Barlov wrote:The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.
but on the 4ms webpage there is a picture of four row 40s being powered with one brick?

User avatar
4mspedals
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by 4mspedals » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:10 am

ianross wrote:
Barlov wrote:The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.
but on the 4ms webpage there is a picture of four row 40s being powered with one brick?
Yes, you can typically run 4 rows off a single brick. This rule of thumb applies whether you have a single RP30 powering each row, or an RP40 powering every two rows. In my personal system I've gone up to 5 rows of mostly low-current modules on a single power brick (and even 6 rows for a couple hours in an "emergency" situation), but I recommend staying at 4 unless you are doing the math or measurements on the current load of each power rail for your system. The "40" in Row Power 40 refers to the maximum amount of power the Row Power module can supply, totalled across all three power rails (40W). However, a typical system will not be drawing power at the 100% maximum level, or anywhere near that. In practice, one rail will have a heavier draw than the others, they don't all get loaded evenly. So the power supply operates below its maximum. It's also a good practice to operate below the maximum rating of any power supply, i.e. if your RP40 is actually supplying 40W then you should use two RP30's or something else instead.

capski
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 12:02 pm
Location: seattle

Post by capski » Wed May 20, 2015 6:56 pm

hello!
Im wondering if I'm having a similar problem to others, but not quite...
replaced a uZeus in anticipation of some expansion.

The uzeus can power everything here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/179347

but when i switch to the Row Power 40 - only the top row (all on one flying bus board works).

The second row is on an extended flying bus board. The connections seem to work as the same wiring works with the uzeus, but not with the row power 40. Weirdly, the A-190-2 seems to get power and something seems to be going on with the curtis filter (LED slightly glowing, should be off unless CV is coming through.) Tried switching the connections on the row power itself, same situation.

Im using the power brick 4ms sells..

Im thinking Im just suffering from some noob foolishness - any thoughts?

Mrdave1981
Common Wiggler
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:29 am
Contact:

Post by Mrdave1981 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

for those of you with a row40... did your unit for with a 2-prong or 3-prong power brick? my unit came with a 2-prong adapter. I've been getting a high whine noise, specifically with instrument input interfaces (ptg and befaco). I have a separate case with a uzeus and don't experience the whining sound there.

in addition I'm finding certain modules (mangrove air attenuverter) have extra bleed and certain knobs when adjusted cause a sound similar to rubbing against a microphone. -- so weird!!!

not sure if a I have a grounding issue (3-prong would fix)... or if the row power itself might be defective.

anybody with similar experience or trouble shooting recommendations?

Mrdave1981
Common Wiggler
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:29 am
Contact:

Post by Mrdave1981 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:42 am

worked with 4ms... customer service was fantastic.

they sent out a new rowpower and three prong brick. my original rowpower was the culprit. whine is gone... and everything is sounding great!

robbert
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:39 am
Location: Germany

Post by robbert » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:59 am

I am really satisfied with my row40 but one annoying thing. Because of the tech stuff on the pcb stands off it ist not 4 hp but 5 hp since it is only usable with at least an additional 1 hp blank panel on the left side. Anyone has this problem, too?

M6live
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:13 am

Post by M6live » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:34 pm

Redacted.
Last edited by M6live on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

M6live
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:13 am

Post by M6live » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:27 pm

Redacted.
Last edited by M6live on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vjaz
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:52 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Post by vjaz » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:59 pm

allo, got to dig this thread back up as I too have a problem with the RP40. I also have a high pitched whine, not that loud, but loud enough to encroach on the audio signal path and be very annoying. The frequency is 8.5kHz for the main whine, with a harmonic at 17kHz. The power cord is 3 pronged.

My setup is as follows: a 4ms flying bus off each RP40 power header, with a TTA flying bus coming off each of them to allow for all the modules in my 6U 84HP case. Each power header governs each row of the case, with the following modules attached: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/132824

Am I doing something hideously wrong? It's all running well under the max spec, and everyone's saying chaining bus boards is fine. I've tried different laptop power bricks that operate in the recommended range, still there. I've tried removing each row separately, the noise remains for either row connected. I've also emailed 4ms but our conversation got cut off by the weekend and I wanted to open the question to the community.

A recording of the noise:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jp80ct8aatwfa ... o.wav?dl=0

User avatar
Funky40
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5535
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: on a big voyage

Post by Funky40 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:04 am

my question here in the row,

can i connect the ROW40 to Busboards with own 5V regulator on board ? ( a TL7805 per board)
or should i cut the 5V wires on the connecting buscable ?
For sale / reduced prices ( swiss (we are NON-EU)/ in case it makes sense_ EU/WW)(CHF +- = $):
Basimilus Iteritas mkI: 180chf / Plaits OG: 150.- / WMD Geiger Counter: 180.- / Dotcom Q960: 700.- / Q119: 430 /
ATV A-Frame incl. Accu and Bag: 850.-, like new, quasi unused.

Effie
Common Wiggler
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:28 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Effie » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:47 am

I have the Row Power 40 and love it, but, as a pretty fresh eurorack newbie, I have a question about 5V: if I have a module that requires 5v, do I need a 5v adapter to use it with the row power, or am I good to go in just plugging it straight in?

User avatar
Funky40
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5535
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: on a big voyage

Post by Funky40 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:56 pm

Effie wrote:I have the Row Power 40 and love it, but, as a pretty fresh eurorack newbie, I have a question about 5V: if I have a module that requires 5v, do I need a 5v adapter to use it with the row power, or am I good to go in just plugging it straight in?
Row Power 40 and also 30 deliver 5V from its own regulator.
so you don´t need any other 5V regulator.


my question above was btw. on the topic if adding a additional 5V adapter onto the busboard would destroy something ?
so no, to be on the safe side don´t add another 5V regulator ! ;)

Row power 40 has btw. 1,5A (IIRC) on the 5V rail, which is plenty.
For sale / reduced prices ( swiss (we are NON-EU)/ in case it makes sense_ EU/WW)(CHF +- = $):
Basimilus Iteritas mkI: 180chf / Plaits OG: 150.- / WMD Geiger Counter: 180.- / Dotcom Q960: 700.- / Q119: 430 /
ATV A-Frame incl. Accu and Bag: 850.-, like new, quasi unused.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”