MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

4ms ROW POWER
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author 4ms ROW POWER
4mspedals


Our new power solution is called ROW POWER.

It's a 4HP module that uses a commonly available laptop-style power brick. It's cool, clean, and compact.

The 30W version is 1.5A @ +12V, 0.75A @ -12V, and 0.5A @ +5V.
The 40W version is 1.5A @ +12V, 1.25A @ -12V, and 1.5A @ +5V.

We want to see the first run installed in a wide variety of systems, and tested with many different modules. So, we're casting a wide net for people who want to be testers, selling them at a discount in exchange for usage reports. Call it beta testing, or perhaps call it "gamma" testing.

Email us if you're interested in testing: 4ms at 4mspedals dot com.
haima
looks interesting! email sent SlayerBadger!
BTG
Is this using a flying bus board I assume?
EarlJemmings
Oh, nice!
These supply more than I hoped for.

Really really looking forward to the modular rows being released, So I can leave my awkward non-portable racked HEKs behined.

we're not worthy nanners
waveglider
Why 2 DC power jacks?
spunkytoofers
waveglider wrote:
Why 2 DC power jacks?


probally a daisy chain
haima
yeah, daisy-chain would be my guess...
robbert
Please give more info. How deep is the module, what busboard concept, how much conectors does the busboard offer etc.

Hope the stonger one will be available soon. I need more power!
robbert
Found the info on the website. Looking forward to buy one!
4mspedals
Hey all.. to answer the questions:

-Yes, the two jacks are for daisy-chaining. The power switch doesn't interrupt the daisy-chain.
-It can work with a flying bus board, or you can connect the ROW POWER to a distro board
-It's 27mm deep

There's more info here: http://4mspedals.com/rowpow.php
Microscopial
Hey buddy Ive just built two of your bussboards and really nice easy build so I'd like to try these with your power. How much for the more powerful one to the uk. Cheers Ross. Ps did you ever get my message from Facebook
bog
Would love to try this in my new rack. I emailed, but no response yet. Ready to buy. Need ROW Power asap!
bog
sbogle56@aol.com
mckenic
If you dont have enough testers already, and if your sending some across the pond to Ross anyway - Id be down for 1 or 2! I could use it instead of switching my uZeus any time I wanna use my Lemond sequencing skiff! (My uZeuss usually in my portable case meaning I cant use both at the same time!)
annex03
Gimme danger Littl, stranger! thumbs up

4mspedals wrote:


Our new power solution is called ROW POWER.

It's a 4HP module that uses a commonly available laptop-style power brick. It's cool, clean, and compact.

The 30W version is 1.5A @ +12V, 0.75A @ -12V, and 0.5A @ +5V.
The 40W version is 1.5A @ +12V, 1.25A @ -12V, and 1.5A @ +5V.

We want to see the first run installed in a wide variety of systems, and tested with many different modules. So, we're casting a wide net for people who want to be testers, selling them at a discount in exchange for usage reports. Call it beta testing, or perhaps call it "gamma" testing.

Email us if you're interested in testing: 4ms at 4mspedals dot com.
4mspedals
Just sent out a mass email to all the gamma-testing participants. Check your spam box if you don't get it. Thanks!
nofuture
Very interesting !Hope this will be soon available on the market !
Was wondering about getting bus board or an other uZeus but :

The 40W version is 1.5A @ +12V, 1.25A @ -12V, and 1.5A @ +5V.

= 2 uZeus so can be very interesting if we can chain flying board



Seems to be female connectors on this picture instead of male ones ? Is this normal ?
4mspedals
Yes, our flying bus cables use female connectors. The TipTop ones use male connectors. Both have pros and cons... You can use either with the ROW POWER.
bromer
I'd like to give these a test! Thanks

Brian Romer
onurkalaycioglu
id like to gamma test as well
nofuture
4mspedals wrote:
Yes, our flying bus cables use female connectors. The TipTop ones use male connectors. Both have pros and cons... You can use either with the ROW POWER.


Okay thanks for the answer !

Have you an idea of the price range / availability date if everything is fine during the gamma test ?

Thanks.
robbert
Could you please end this test and put it up for sale NOW! :love:
Etan
robbert wrote:
Could you please end this test and put it up for sale NOW! love


+1

In desperate need for more juice, ROW POWER seems perfect. Any news on release date?
deathbeef
ROW power seems really great for starter/expanding systems. Here's hoping for a release date and/or pricing info soon!
nofuture
Any news about when it should be available ?
Etan
It was said on FB 2-3 weeks till they start shipping.
nofuture
Thank you !
atari5200
Any further word on pricing? I assume this will work with a Cincon brick, right?
nofuture
Quote:
Powered by laptop-style DC power supply: 2.1mm barrel, positive center, 15V-20V.


Can't wait for this be available, need some juice !
GGW
Can these be ordered yet? I see them on the site but there is no pricing.
I'm putting together a small two row system that should be accommodated by the Row Power 30 for power but it has 18 modules. Can three bus cables be split off somehow?
Etan
My DIY case is almost finished, need power badly, but still no news on ROW POWER release date.

You can already preorder it on Analogue Zone, the price is 97,99 euros for ROW POWER 30 and 157,99 euros for ROW POWER 40.

Hopefully these will be out soon screaming goo yo
nofuture
Hello,

Any news about the availability ?

Thanks.
Etan
Anytime I ask it is only two weeks away. Got fed up with waiting and lack of proper info, ordered Doepfer power supply today.
4mspedals
nofuture wrote:
Hello,

Any news about the availability ?

Thanks.


We've got a bunch of ROW POWERs and are just waiting on the flying bus cables and new, low-profile low-cost distro boards. Should be by the end of the month!
nofuture
Nice !

Thanks for the answer, impatient to get one !
Strange_Days
Any sign of the Row Power in any shops yet? (More imaptience here razz)
NU
Just spotted it at Moog Audio: http://www.moogaudio.com/4ms-row-power-40-black-p-7767.html
gabrielp
NU wrote:
Just spotted it at Moog Audio: http://www.moogaudio.com/4ms-row-power-40-black-p-7767.html


We dont have them in stock @ moog yet, hopefully soon!
4mspedals
OK! They're officially ready and we've started shipping to dealers.

We have Row Power 30's, Row Power 40's, and accessories:
-Flying Bus Cables (both male and female versions)
-Bus Stick (a low-profile mini passive distro board)
-Power Brick
-Barrel Jumper cables (for daisy-chaining Row Powers)

You can see more info on our site:
http://www.4mspedals.com/rowpow.php

Note that we aren't shipping direct to customers yet, only to dealers (unless there's no dealer in your region, such as South America).
theflyingfridge
I'm wondering how the trial went for those who were trialing it?

Hoping some wigglers currently using ROW POWER can speak up!

I'm planning on upgrading ASAP.

thumbs up
Etan
I am also interested in any user experiences.

Thinking about replacing my 4 X 6U Doepfer cases with a single custom built case powered by couple of Row Power supplies.
nofuture
Idem, advice on ROW POWER vs Linear PSU would be great, I'm hesitating between those two possibilities.
exper
I tested one, and feel that its a perfectly fine power supply. It had a lower noise floor than my other switching supply I tested it against.

One thing that is not the fault of the Row Power, but certain modules are very noisy/whiny with many switching supplies. Namely Pamela's Workout and to a slightly lesser extent, Trigger Riot. So, unless you want to power these on their own separate control skiff (which is what I do) I'd go for a linear supply.

I will also say that some oscillators that have been prone to bleeding, were at their lowest with the Row Power compared to my other power, ie almost imperceptible.

It's a good product overall, so go for it!
bk_3782
on a somewhat related note, when will the modular rows be available at distributors for sale?
thiagozt
Any word on availability?
exper
thiagozt wrote:
Any word on availability?


http://www.ctrl-mod.com/4ms-Row-Power-40-p/4ms-row-power-40.htm

http://controlvoltage.net/4ms-row-power-%28black-40w%29/dp/1248

http://store.muffwiggler.com/collections/4ms-modules/products/4ms-row- power-40
nofuture
Hi,

I've some question about the ROW Power:

I saw that there is 2 keyed connector for the bus board / flexible bus board.
Is it possible to chain the flexible bus boards ?
Like have 2 flexible bus board connected to the 4ms ROW Power and then 2 connected to the first male connector of each one of the 2 that are connected to the module ? (I ask this because 13 connector is a bit light for a PSU that can supply 1.5(+12V)/1.3(-12V)/1.5(+5V))

I also saw that it accept 15 to 20 VDC as Power Supply.
So would it be possible to chain one 4ms ROW Power with a uZeus if I put the PSU in 15VDC (the one that is sold by 4ms) without any risk weird issue ?
Do someone actually try to do that and made some test about possible issues caused by this ? (Hum ? Greater Noise Floor ? Greater Heat ? VCO Tracking differently ? )

Thanks.
cheliosheart
Yes you can chain flying bus boards.

Not sure about chaining to a uZeus, no experience.
nofuture
And other thing come to my head...

The cord that link the Power Brick from 4ms to the plug on the wall is from USA/EU and work in 110/230 VAC depending on where you buy it right ?
( I'm going to order it from Schneidersladen so it should be in 230 VAC and DE outlet right ?)
Can I safely cut the cord and put a Swiss outlet instead of the US / EU one ? or it's not recommended ?
( I do this each this I buy something in EU and had no problem until now, but well there's going to be all the modules powered by the 4ms ROW POWER so I don't want to fry them all just because of this... )

Still interested to know if someone tried to chain a 4ms ROW POW & a uZeus.
Thanks.
Funky40
there was no Cord ( from Brick to 220V outlet) , you buy your own. (it has the small 3 pin plug)
thats how i got mine from 4ms . ( the first batch units )

the 4ms has a direct 15V out, to chain "PSU modules".
Though, their plug isn´t fitting the uZeus.
you would have to solder a own connector cable,
you can get cheap bricks for uZues from Reichelt for example
owmtxy
Just ordered a ROW to go with a uZeus so I'd be interested in the compatibility matter too.

Soldering a new cable together isn't a problem, but is there any other reason it couldn't work (or worse, damage things)?
nofuture
Thanks Funky
nofuture
Hi guys,

Just received my 4ms this morning and I notice something weird when I plugged it.

On the little manual that comes with the LED are:

+ 5V RED
+ 12V BLUE
- 12V WHITE

When I turned up mine they are:

+ 5V RED
+ 12V WHITE
- 12V BLUE

Is this normal or the IEC C5 aka Mickey Mouse cable could be inverted or there could be an other issue ? ( Ididn't try to plug any module ATM....)

Ah I just looked on 4ms website and the picture shows the same as on mine:




EDIT:

So I tried with a module , it worked so I try with two, idem and with all idem so it seems that there's a mistake in the manual but everything worked fine.
4mspedals
Hey nofuture,
We actually changed the colors after the first batch, but didn't update the manual... Thanks for finding that!
Infinity Curve
Quick question. I am currently using a ROW40 in my 6U system with no problems(mostly intellijel modules). However I have just started a new case and got a 2nd one and have run into a snag. It powers everything fine(PM modules from their system 10 and system 3), except the Pittsburgh Modular Synthesizer Box module. Everything works in the module...except the oscillator section(filter, VCA, envelope, LFO - all work). I tried the module again with the Cell48 case it came with, works as it should. Tried it with a uZeus, worked fine. All other modules work fine with the ROW 40. I've tried it with just the Synthesizer Box connected and same issue, no oscillator.

Any ideas why it won't work with the ROW40? I thought perhaps it was a 5v issue, but the ROW40 is noted as providing tons of 5v juice.

Am I missing something obvious? I've poured over all info I can find online and can't figure out where the issue lies.
4mspedals
Hi, That's very odd indeed. So, does it work on the other Row Power you have?Also have you contacted Pittsburgh Modular to see if there's any reason just the osc section would not work while the rest of the module works? That would be odd if it's a power issue, I would first suspect something is loose or intermittent. Could it be perhaps the power cable itself (try swapping for a known-working power cable)? OR-- perhaps it's related to the CV/Gate bus? Do you know if the Synth Block uses that (I didn't see that info on their site)... On the Row Power, the CV/Gate bus are left open, so that shouldn't effect anything on the Synth Block, but maybe that's a clue... hmmm...

Anyways try seeing what the people at Pittsburgh Modular have to say.
Infinity Curve
So the plot thickens. Dropped by to see my friends at Moog Audio to see if we couldn't get to the bottom of this. This is where things get even weirder.

My Synthesizer Box module...works fine in the Cell 48 case, works fine with my uZeus, doesn't work with my ROW40. Try it with their ROW40, doesn't work. Try it with their uZeus, doesn't work(?????)

Then we noticed they had a Synthesizer Box and a Synth Block(the older version) setup in a rack with a uZeus. Go to try them, and they are doing the exact same things as mine, everything works but the oscillator section, with a uZeus(???). Hooked them up to my Cell48, and they worked fine.

I am going to try and get a response out of Pittsburgh as there is definitely something weird going on and now I'm even more confused based on the above.

Will advise if I ever get to the bottom of it.
SpecG
I have the same issue ,ill try in my 48 case ...I thought I just couldn't figure it out(The box), both my 40s and my 30 powers everything fine no issues, no noise and cool thumbs up
Infinity Curve
Same on my end. I am running one ROW40 running 168HP of Intellijel stuff and just under 208HP of Pittsburgh, Intellijel and Make Noise on the other one, daisy chained off the one power brick and it runs perfectly. Only the Synthesizer Box is having any problems.
HIMA
EDIT: Got some answers from Dan. I've included them here for future visitors.

Silly question time, but better i ask...

I have the 4MS EURO POWER DISTRO BOARD (KEYED HEADERS). All the slots seem exactly the same. does it matter which I connect to my Row Power?

Quote:
No, but make sure to remove the 5V jumper, since the RP provides 5V.



I got it to replace a uZeus. So the next question is:

I didn't receive my 16-pin connector, so would it be possible to remove the flying bus from the uZeus (which has 2 connection headers) use it form the Row Power to the Distro Board?
Quote:

Any power cable will work, I'm not sure exactly how the TipTop flying bus cable is set up, but if it has two female connectors then you can plug one into the RP and one into the Distro. You also could use a power cable from a module.

The Distro doesn't come with a 16-pin connector to attach to the Row Power because it's not designed to be used with a Row Power. The Distro is made for being a part of a DIY power installation project. Sorry if that was ever unclear... The RP and Distro will work together, but you have to supply your own cable to connect them (and the main disadvantage is that one end of the Distro with the fuses and tabs and voltage regulator is not used at all)


Lastly, my distro board, unlike the Bus Stick, has metal at the back. The Distro Board has holes for standoffs, but didn't come with any. It'll be in a Ikea Rast (wood). Can i just leave it on the wood?

Quote:
**Probably** will be OK, since wood is not conductive. I would suggest screwing it down or somehow making sure it's not bouncing around inside the case. The holes on the distro are made for 4/40 or M3 screws. You might be able to use some 3M sticky pads if you double them up...


I'm dying to jack it in so any answers would be great. Thanks for your help.

EDIT: So thanks to Dan for his help on answering these during his Xmas day!
fivefivefive
bout to get a Row Power 40 to replace a uzues for my main case. with the row 40 the 1.5 A of 5V will allow me to power a Monome/White Whale

I put an example of more or less what I would be running on the Row 40 into modular grid and got the following numbers ( https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/31596 )

974 mA +12V | 275 mA -12V | 600 mA 5V

I have a bit higher requirements for a standard 6U case due to the WW, a Qu-Bit Nebulae (320 mA of +12V), and one or two high power digital effects (e.g. the Erbe-Verb at 149 mA of +12V)

This seems to be within the specs of the Row 40, but since I'm assuming/counting on that each of the 1.5A of +12v, 1.25A of -12V, and 1.5A of 5V is available simultaneously I figured I would ask before making the purchase. The system above has a combined amperage of ~1800 mA. Will the Row 40 and it's standard 90W power brick be able to power this?

In the past I made a mistake with my uZeus because although it is rated for 1000 mA of 12V and 500 mA of -12V the wall wart itself can't supply more than 1000 mA at a time. In that case the combined +12V and -12V was around 1100 mA and eventually blew out the wall wart.
sixty_n
@fivefivefive yes, it's all available simultaneously so you won't have a problem. The 90W power brick will easily power 2 row 40s chained together ( and probably more) so that won't give you any problems either
indigoid
I got the impression from the 4ms site that a 3-pin IEC plug is used to power the brick. Anyone able to tell me if the system ground is connected through to the earth pin on the IEC plug?
Barlov
The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.
ianross
Barlov wrote:
The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.


but on the 4ms webpage there is a picture of four row 40s being powered with one brick?
4mspedals
ianross wrote:
Barlov wrote:
The power brick shouldn't power any more than two row 40's. But that's enough for 12U of 104hp.


but on the 4ms webpage there is a picture of four row 40s being powered with one brick?


Yes, you can typically run 4 rows off a single brick. This rule of thumb applies whether you have a single RP30 powering each row, or an RP40 powering every two rows. In my personal system I've gone up to 5 rows of mostly low-current modules on a single power brick (and even 6 rows for a couple hours in an "emergency" situation), but I recommend staying at 4 unless you are doing the math or measurements on the current load of each power rail for your system. The "40" in Row Power 40 refers to the maximum amount of power the Row Power module can supply, totalled across all three power rails (40W). However, a typical system will not be drawing power at the 100% maximum level, or anywhere near that. In practice, one rail will have a heavier draw than the others, they don't all get loaded evenly. So the power supply operates below its maximum. It's also a good practice to operate below the maximum rating of any power supply, i.e. if your RP40 is actually supplying 40W then you should use two RP30's or something else instead.
capski
hello!
Im wondering if I'm having a similar problem to others, but not quite...
replaced a uZeus in anticipation of some expansion.

The uzeus can power everything here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/179347

but when i switch to the Row Power 40 - only the top row (all on one flying bus board works).

The second row is on an extended flying bus board. The connections seem to work as the same wiring works with the uzeus, but not with the row power 40. Weirdly, the A-190-2 seems to get power and something seems to be going on with the curtis filter (LED slightly glowing, should be off unless CV is coming through.) Tried switching the connections on the row power itself, same situation.

Im using the power brick 4ms sells..

Im thinking Im just suffering from some noob foolishness - any thoughts?
Mrdave1981
for those of you with a row40... did your unit for with a 2-prong or 3-prong power brick? my unit came with a 2-prong adapter. I've been getting a high whine noise, specifically with instrument input interfaces (ptg and befaco). I have a separate case with a uzeus and don't experience the whining sound there.

in addition I'm finding certain modules (mangrove air attenuverter) have extra bleed and certain knobs when adjusted cause a sound similar to rubbing against a microphone. -- so weird!!!

not sure if a I have a grounding issue (3-prong would fix)... or if the row power itself might be defective.

anybody with similar experience or trouble shooting recommendations?
Mrdave1981
worked with 4ms... customer service was fantastic.

they sent out a new rowpower and three prong brick. my original rowpower was the culprit. whine is gone... and everything is sounding great!
robbert
I am really satisfied with my row40 but one annoying thing. Because of the tech stuff on the pcb stands off it ist not 4 hp but 5 hp since it is only usable with at least an additional 1 hp blank panel on the left side. Anyone has this problem, too?
M6live
Redacted.
M6live
Redacted.
vjaz
allo, got to dig this thread back up as I too have a problem with the RP40. I also have a high pitched whine, not that loud, but loud enough to encroach on the audio signal path and be very annoying. The frequency is 8.5kHz for the main whine, with a harmonic at 17kHz. The power cord is 3 pronged.

My setup is as follows: a 4ms flying bus off each RP40 power header, with a TTA flying bus coming off each of them to allow for all the modules in my 6U 84HP case. Each power header governs each row of the case, with the following modules attached: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/132824

Am I doing something hideously wrong? It's all running well under the max spec, and everyone's saying chaining bus boards is fine. I've tried different laptop power bricks that operate in the recommended range, still there. I've tried removing each row separately, the noise remains for either row connected. I've also emailed 4ms but our conversation got cut off by the weekend and I wanted to open the question to the community.

A recording of the noise:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jp80ct8aatwfax1/0001%204-Audio.wav?dl=0
Funky40
my question here in the row,

can i connect the ROW40 to Busboards with own 5V regulator on board ? ( a TL7805 per board)
or should i cut the 5V wires on the connecting buscable ?
Effie
I have the Row Power 40 and love it, but, as a pretty fresh eurorack newbie, I have a question about 5V: if I have a module that requires 5v, do I need a 5v adapter to use it with the row power, or am I good to go in just plugging it straight in?
Funky40
Effie wrote:
I have the Row Power 40 and love it, but, as a pretty fresh eurorack newbie, I have a question about 5V: if I have a module that requires 5v, do I need a 5v adapter to use it with the row power, or am I good to go in just plugging it straight in?

Row Power 40 and also 30 deliver 5V from its own regulator.
so you don´t need any other 5V regulator.


my question above was btw. on the topic if adding a additional 5V adapter onto the busboard would destroy something ?
so no, to be on the safe side don´t add another 5V regulator ! wink

Row power 40 has btw. 1,5A (IIRC) on the 5V rail, which is plenty.
Effie
Funky40 wrote:
Effie wrote:
I have the Row Power 40 and love it, but, as a pretty fresh eurorack newbie, I have a question about 5V: if I have a module that requires 5v, do I need a 5v adapter to use it with the row power, or am I good to go in just plugging it straight in?

Row Power 40 and also 30 deliver 5V from its own regulator.
so you don´t need any other 5V regulator.


my question above was btw. on the topic if adding a additional 5V adapter onto the busboard would destroy something ?
so no, to be on the safe side don´t add another 5V regulator ! wink

Row power 40 has btw. 1,5A (IIRC) on the 5V rail, which is plenty.


I figured as much due to th 5v light on the front of the panel, but I figured it's best to be safe when an expensive module is on the line. Thanks! smile
Funky40
Row Power 40, question:

how much can i load the +12V Bus ?
rating is 1,5A.
i´m on 1.4 A now, according to modulargrid. But two modules are not listed.
so its more like 1.46A.
I have the 90W Brick, so that one is not on hot load, only the regulator


does anybody know ? ( i hate to bother Manufacturers and steal their time )
jeannot
Funky40 wrote:
Row Power 40, question:

how much can i load the +12V Bus ?
rating is 1,5A.
i´m on 1.4 A now, according to modulargrid. But two modules are not listed.
so its more like 1.46A.
I have the 90W Brick, so that one is not on hot load, only the regulator


does anybody know ? ( i hate to bother Manufacturers and steal their time )


1.4A is definitely running it too close on a RP40. Power draw ratings are not 100% accurate on MG, so keep that in mind.

Also no need for 5V regulators, as the Row Powers supply the 5V line already.
Kujo
Any ideas as to why my Dual Borg is behaving like this when it is installed on the 4ms Row Power ?

https://youtu.be/gSJclXN_mRE
tenshun
Any one have any problems with the Row power 30?

mine was working well for a couple of months and then all of a sudden
it wont power on anymore.

i only have a few modules connected to it and i unplugged all of them to see if
it would help but still no power.

The power brick im using seems to work as it turn on my laptop.
tenshun
i found the problem that was wrong with the row power not turning on!

it was the actual power adaptor!

i tested it out on other computers and stuff and they would not turn on.
so i went and bought a new power adaptor and it works!

im glad it wasnt the row power!
Flohr
M6live wrote:
I have a question about the barrel power cable for chaining Row Power 40(s). It's a 2.1mm barrel male to male. The 4ms one is not as long as I'd like.
Could I get away with using this one? Am I neglecting some important aspect of the cable or would this one suffice? hmmm.....


Can anyone confirm whether a longer daisychain connector will work? I want to get a RP for my new skiff and would prefer to have the skiff run off the same brick as my 6u, but not necessarily have to be less than 4 inches away.

Also can you daisychain a Row 40 and a Row 30 together?
tenshun
Flohr wrote:
M6live wrote:
I have a question about the barrel power cable for chaining Row Power 40(s). It's a 2.1mm barrel male to male. The 4ms one is not as long as I'd like.
Could I get away with using this one? Am I neglecting some important aspect of the cable or would this one suffice? hmmm.....


Can anyone confirm whether a longer daisychain connector will work? I want to get a RP for my new skiff and would prefer to have the skiff run off the same brick as my 6u, but not necessarily have to be less than 4 inches away.

Also can you daisychain a Row 40 and a Row 30 together?


I have no problem powering a row 30 with my row 40.
Both are in different cases and have no problem.

As far a daisy chain cable. I made a diy one. I just bought two 2.1mm barrel plugs from frys and soldered them to a 6 foot cable.
peanut
What about using other barrel cables than the ones from 4ms? Can anyone confirm that your regular male to male barrel from another manufacturer is okay to use?
peanut
Thanks, tenshun. Think that answers my question.
2disbetter
So I'm planning on running a row power 40, 30, and another 30 all daisy chained off the 90 watt power brick from 4ms.

According to modulargrid which I know is not precise I have the following when the plan is complete:
Power Consumption: 1994 mA +12V | 798 mA -12V | 95 mA 5V

Best to run the last row power 30 on it's own brick?

Also as was previously asked, is using a self made barrel cable ok? 4ms makes the 3" and 10" one, but I need one that is about 14".

2d
itsritual
2disbetter wrote:

Also as was previously asked, is using a self made barrel cable ok? 4ms makes the 3" and 10" one, but I need one that is about 14".

2d
Yup. Mines daisy chained w/ a 2 ft cable no problem.
2disbetter
Hmmm, the marketing text for the row power 30 and 40 all say that you can daisy chain 3-5 row powers with one power brick. But simple math tells me that just 3-4 of any kind would exceed the wattage of the power brick. Why is this not a problem?

Edit: I got off my lazy butt and googled a volts to watts calculater, based on what I could come up with from the power amounts I listed above, I'm using around 38 watts with the system totally full.

Should be good to go right?

2d
sasbom
I'm building a 104 HP 9U case,
and I wonder if 1 4ms 40W module will cut it. I think not.

How much power do I need to be future proof? How does the daisy chaining work?

I still can't find that much info on powering eurorack, especially
large cases...
sasbom
sorry bump pls delete.
2disbetter
sasbom wrote:
I'm building a 104 HP 9U case,
and I wonder if 1 4ms 40W module will cut it. I think not.

How much power do I need to be future proof? How does the daisy chaining work?

I still can't find that much info on powering eurorack, especially
large cases...


You are going to use 3 rows of eurorack on one row power 40? I'd say absolutely not. Should you have it loaded up in modulargrid, you can use the rough power estimate of the whole modular at the bottom to see what your expected +12v, -12v, 5v draws are. My guess is you will easily exceed the the maximum for each of those.

Regarding the 90 watt power brick they sell, that can easily power 3-5 row powers, so you'd be good on that front. You will just need more row power modules.

Not sure on the daisy chaining but I would prefer to only plug flying power cables into the module itself. It has 2 connections for that. Meaning with flying cables you would have 14 module power connections. Not going to be nearly enough for a whole 9u case. On average (if averages really exists in modular) you are going to use 5-9 power connections per row. I think it is safe to say you will need at a minimum a row power 40 and 30. It might be possible to use one, but you'd have no real future proof, and would have to daisy chain on the flying cables themselves, which I would think might not be good for noise. (I don't really know, just guessing)

2d
sasbom
Thanks!

I'm going with the 90W power brick but I've decided to get a beefier power module, I only want 1 power button hahaha
JSVice
Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but a topic was mentioned on here that came up in a search I was conducting. It referred to the ability to daisy chain a Row Power to a Zeus. I saw the question asking if this was possible, but I didn't see an answer. Does any one know if you can do this?
JohnLRice
JSVice wrote:
Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but a topic was mentioned on here that came up in a search I was conducting. It referred to the ability to daisy chain a Row Power to a Zeus. I saw the question asking if this was possible, but I didn't see an answer. Does any one know if you can do this?
Welcome to Muff's! w00t

It should work fine since the two jacks on the row power are connected in parallel so the power brick output is passed through to the second jack. Just make sure you don't exceed the power brick's capacity.

The only thing to over come is that the Row Power and uZeus use different sized jacks, (2.1mm and 2.5mm respectively) so the linking cables 4ms sells wont work without modifying it by replacing one of the plugs with a 2.5mm one. You may be able to find the correct cable already made (try Amazon or eBay etc) but pay attention to the wire gauge. Many of the adapter cables you'll see are for guitar pedals and may not be suitable for handling the current draw of the uZeus, depending on how many modules are connected.

There are also 2.1mm to 2.5mm adapter plugs you could use together with a 4ms cable but I would avoid that it since adapters tend to not give a solid connection and it will stick up pretty tall and be in the way etc.
JSVice
Wow. Thanks so much. That's a complete and very helpful answer.
m1sterlurk
I am writing because I just underwent quite the saga trying to isolate a whine coming from some of my modules. I'm posting this here to hopefully help the next person that has this issue.

I'm using a Row Power 40 to power this system: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622278

I'll start by saying that the grounding in my house is non-existent. My house was built in the 60's, and last had its electrical system inspected in 1985. The only 3 prong outlet in the house is in my studio, and it is not actually grounded.

When I built my system, I discovered I had a general whine noise that would start at around 5000Hz and would drift up to about 6500Hz over time. This seemed to come from many of my Eurorack modules, but was particularly bad in my Doepfer Xtreme Filter and Intellijel Springray II. It wouldn't come from the output module if nothing was connected, so I knew that the problem wasn't between the modular and my audio interface.

I tried unplugging modules individually to see if I could isolate it to a single module, and was unsuccessful. I tried buying a different power supply (a Mean Well GSM60B15-P1J), which reduced the whine slightly but not significantly. I purchased a power conditioner (a Furman PL-8C), and it did absolutely nothing to the whine (it did drop the noise floor in my studio considerably though...so I strongly recommend it anyway).

The answer that finally worked for me was I borrowed a linear bench power supply from a friend, specifically a TekPower TP3005T ( http://tekpower.us/tp3005t.html ). I set it to 16 volts, wired it to the DC power cable I amputated from the 4ms 90W brick, ensured that the center was still positive with a multimeter, and hooked it up. The whine was completely gone.

So it was a bit of an extreme solution and you do have to be extra cautious when using a bench power supply (that is be sure the voltage is correctly set before plugging in your system and turning it on), but it worked absolutely perfectly.
2disbetter
m1sterlurk wrote:
wired it to the DC power cable I amputated from the 4ms 90W brick, ensured that the center was still positive with a multimeter, and hooked it up.


Could you elaborate on this a bit more? Is there a better more professional (safer) solution to using that PSU with the row power?

2d
JohnLRice
m1sterlurk wrote:
wired it to the DC power cable I amputated from the 4ms 90W brick
I've done similar things as this before because I wanted to get on with the project and not wait to research and order things etc. hihi But just an FYI, I know that the 3 foot long Locking DC Extension Cable that Synthrotek sells for $6 works well with the 4ms Row Power supplies and will not only fit but screw down for a tight secure connection. Just cut off the unneeded end and strip the wires to connect to the alternative DC source.
http://store.synthrotek.com/Locking_DC_Extension_Cable
2disbetter
I might as well go ahead and share how I fixed my long running noise problems.

Turns out the 4ms 90w brick was junk, and really noisey. (I mean mine, not all of them.)

Bought a $20 dollar meanwell brick and poof noise gone.

I'm so happy. Rockin' Banana!

2d
L.C.O.
2disbetter wrote:
I might as well go ahead and share how I fixed my long running noise problems.

Turns out the 4ms 90w brick was junk, and really noisey. (I mean mine, not all of them.)

Bought a $20 dollar meanwell brick and poof noise gone.

I'm so happy. Rockin' Banana!

2d


Man, this stuff confuses me all the time.
I could swear I read here that Meanwell bricks are the noisy ones!
Go figure!...
2disbetter
L.C.O. wrote:

Man, this stuff confuses me all the time.
I could swear I read here that Meanwell bricks are the noisy ones!
Go figure!...


You're not confused! I read the same.

I should expound a little more, I didn't just replace the power brick, I also bought some LIBBs and EHA kits from Genus Modu to use with my row powers. I also upgraded all my power cables to the Modular Addict individual wire power cables.

All of that is for sure helping, BUT what I do know is, I got the LIBBs and EHAs, installed them. Still noise. Got a ground loop lift, even worse noise.

Replaced the power cables for each module, still noise. As soon as I swapped out the power brick, super quite. I can't hear anything when nothing is going on.

That goes to show how bad my power brick was, but I think everything else is certainly helping.

I'm just happy it is finally gone!
m1sterlurk
2disbetter wrote:
m1sterlurk wrote:
wired it to the DC power cable I amputated from the 4ms 90W brick, ensured that the center was still positive with a multimeter, and hooked it up.


Could you elaborate on this a bit more? Is there a better more professional (safer) solution to using that PSU with the row power?

2d


You can buy a connector, wire and heat-shrink tubing and properly solder everything together and it would be much more professional. I was just in a hurry to get everything going.
leftbracket
4mspedals wrote:
Blade tabs for power entry, to be used in custom installations (e.g. if the 4HP panel is not used)


Has anyone tried to install a Row Power inside a case without the panel? I'd be curious to see if this could work in my scenario (Dark Modular 6U with the power unceremoniously ripped out by the previous owner or reseller) to free up that extra 4 HP.
pugix
L.C.O. wrote:
2disbetter wrote:
I might as well go ahead and share how I fixed my long running noise problems.

Turns out the 4ms 90w brick was junk, and really noisey. (I mean mine, not all of them.)

Bought a $20 dollar meanwell brick and poof noise gone.

I'm so happy. Rockin' Banana!

2d


Man, this stuff confuses me all the time.
I could swear I read here that Meanwell bricks are the noisy ones!
Go figure!...


It's not the Meanwell bricks. It's the Meanwell power supplies. People seem to confuse these. I use mostly Meanwell 15 volt wall bricks and haven't had a problem. None of these pass Earth ground to the zero volt barrel connector. These are the 'medical grade', which isolate Earth ground.
Avjr
Hey, can anyone confirm if a 4ms bus stick will fit inside a Moog case?

I want to build a small "end of chain" case (mixing/effects/headphones) and the Moog has the perfect size and angle for my needs but would love to stay away from flying bus cables.
templar
bus sticks are 42HP long
Avjr
templar wrote:
bus sticks are 42HP long


Thanks for the reply but that's not what i meant, i should've made myself clearer, sorry.

Because the insides of the case are not completely flat i don't know if you can properly attach the bus stick with the adhesive pads, so, if there is somewhere on the back of the case enough flat space for the bus stick to fit and atach the adhesive pads completely.

Hope that makes more sense, now.
Avjr
I finally got one of these, installed the module and the moment i connected the brick to the wall it started producing this low and thin whinning sound. When i turned the power module on the sound changed and after a while it started sounding like it was being hit by a cycling envelope... confused

The sound stops only when i disconnect the brick from the wall.

Is this normal? seriously, i just don't get it
JohnLRice
Avjr wrote:
I finally got one of these, installed the module and the moment i connected the brick to the wall it started producing this low and thin whinning sound. When i turned the power module on the sound changed and after a while it started sounding like it was being hit by a cycling envelope... confused

The sound stops only when i disconnect the brick from the wall.

Is this normal? seriously, i just don't get it
eek! No, not normal at all! sad banana
Avjr
Thanks for the reply.

Well, off i go trying to source another locally...
amop
Weird - I have six Row Power 40 driving my racks and not an issue with any of them. Bu I used the recommended brick that the retailer - Control Voltage - sold.
Avjr
amop wrote:
Weird - I have six Row Power 40 driving my racks and not an issue with any of them. Bu I used the recommended brick that the retailer - Control Voltage - sold.


I bought the 4ms one. I actually happened upon this thread where it seems i am not the only one that got a brick with such behaviour: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169004&start=all&pos tdays=0&postorder=asc

After reading that i installed the modules and when i turned the Row Power on the noise disappeared.
GGW
I'm planning to mount a Row Power inside a small case I'm building. With the mounting I'm planning, I won't be seeing the LED's and they will be in the way. My question is whether I can just clip the LED's off of the board? I'm assuming they are not inline the circuit.
versipellis
Hey 4MS - what's the internal circuit diagram like for the rowpower40? I'm trying to see how much wattage I can expect out of the daisy chain port to power other devices that aren't a rowpower40 Mr. Green
JohnLRice
versipellis wrote:
Hey 4MS - what's the internal circuit diagram like for the rowpower40? I'm trying to see how much wattage I can expect out of the daisy chain port to power other devices that aren't a rowpower40 Mr. Green
I'm not from 4ms but I'm pretty sure there is no circuitry between the two ports, other then a couple traces on the PCB to connect the ports in parallel.
Pailo
versipellis wrote:
Hey 4MS - what's the internal circuit diagram like for the rowpower40? I'm trying to see how much wattage I can expect out of the daisy chain port to power other devices that aren't a rowpower40 Mr. Green

Like John said its just continuing the brick with a trace.

GGW wrote:
I'm planning to mount a Row Power inside a small case I'm building. With the mounting I'm planning, I won't be seeing the LED's and they will be in the way. My question is whether I can just clip the LED's off of the board? I'm assuming they are not inline the circuit.


You can just clip them, it will not hurt anything.
pugix
JohnLRice wrote:
versipellis wrote:
Hey 4MS - what's the internal circuit diagram like for the rowpower40? I'm trying to see how much wattage I can expect out of the daisy chain port to power other devices that aren't a rowpower40 Mr. Green
I'm not from 4ms but I'm pretty sure there is no circuitry between the two ports, other then a couple traces on the PCB to connect the ports in parallel.


I bought a daisy-chain power jumper and it didn't work reliably at all. So I just soldered jumpers behind the panels of two Row Power 40s.

Remember, you will draw twice as much power from the brick. Make sure it's rated enough.
docsample
Not clear what is included in the box. Clearly I need a power brick. Is a flying bus cable included or is that separate?
JohnLRice
docsample wrote:
Not clear what is included in the box. Clearly I need a power brick. Is a flying bus cable included or is that separate?
Pretty much everything is separate so when ordering be sure to get a power brick and flying bus. If you order direct from 4ms they tend to throw in an extra item or two. Stated on their site:
Quote:
Included with the Row Power 30 (or 40):
16-to-16 pin power cable
2 M3 Knurlie screws
Hazza26
Could someone please tell me if there's any functional difference between plugging a bus board + fly cable into separate headers vs plugging the fly cable into the 1st header and connecting the bus board into the 1st header on the fly cable? (Got cable length issues!).

Thanks
JohnLRice
Hazza26 wrote:
Could someone please tell me if there's any functional difference between plugging a bus board + fly cable into separate headers vs plugging the fly cable into the 1st header and connecting the bus board into the 1st header on the fly cable? (Got cable length issues!).

Thanks
I think I understand what you are saying and while it should still 'work' it's less than idea since the total current for all modules will be trying to pass through the tiny 28 gauge wires of the flying buss cable.

What would be better is to get something like Genus Modu EURO HEADER ADAPTER so that you can mount your buss board further away from the power supply.
http://www.genusmodu.com/products/eha.html

Hazza26
I see what you mean, but I'm within the max load of the Row 40, and I hope (?) that the unit is designed to be able to take the full load through one header? I guess that's the question.

I've ordered a longer bus board connector, just don't want to have to put my wiggling on hold until it arrives!
JohnLRice
Hazza26 wrote:
I see what you mean, but I'm within the max load of the Row 40, and I hope (?) that the unit is designed to be able to take the full load through one header? I guess that's the question.

I've ordered a longer bus board connector, just don't want to have to put my wiggling on hold until it arrives!
Oh, I see. 4ms could answer this better than I but I'd assume that the two headers are simply connected in parallel and there shouldn't be any difference between running everything though both or just one?
Hazza26
Exactly.. I would also assume they're in parallel so hope it's a thumbs up.

Thanks for your help!
versipellis
Hazza26 wrote:
Exactly.. I would also assume they're in parallel so hope it's a thumbs up.

Thanks for your help!


Not sure if this helps, but stacking all my power load on one header didn't work. Splitting across both did, however. I couldn't be bothered math'ing the loads.
Hazza26
versipellis wrote:
Not sure if this helps, but stacking all my power load on one header didn't work. Splitting across both did, however. I couldn't be bothered math'ing the loads.

Ah right, that changes things! When you say "didn't work", did the modules just not power on? Is it possible to fry the power unit?

I just the maths on my load:
1105mA +12v
564mA -12v
0mA 5v

Pretty sure that's within safe tolerances of Row40 and 28AWG ribbon cable?
versipellis
Hazza26 wrote:
versipellis wrote:
Not sure if this helps, but stacking all my power load on one header didn't work. Splitting across both did, however. I couldn't be bothered math'ing the loads.

Ah right, that changes things! When you say "didn't work", did the modules just not power on? Is it possible to fry the power unit?

I just the maths on my load:
1105mA +12v
564mA -12v
0mA 5v

Pretty sure that's within safe tolerances of Row40 and 28AWG ribbon cable?


5V lit up, +12V and -12V didn't. I'm guessing I was pulling more load than the ribbon cable could handle. Like I said, I didn't bother looking up the AWG for the ribbon cables, or measuring the output or trying to figure out the circuit diagram of the row power.
Alphaman
is it possible to connect a Row Power 40 to a Row Power 30 with a this daisy chain cable?
JohnLRice
Alphaman wrote:
is it possible to connect a Row Power 40 to a Row Power 30 with a this daisy chain cable?
Yes! thumbs up
Alphaman
JohnLRice wrote:
Alphaman wrote:
is it possible to connect a Row Power 40 to a Row Power 30 with a this daisy chain cable?
Yes! thumbs up


nice. thanks for the response. and can i use other cables too (if they exist)? currently it is very hard to get these original 4ms cables in germany, because everyone only offers the modules, but not the cables^^
JohnLRice
Alphaman wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
Alphaman wrote:
is it possible to connect a Row Power 40 to a Row Power 30 with a this daisy chain cable?
Yes! thumbs up


nice. thanks for the response. and can i use other cables too (if they exist)? currently it is very hard to get these original 4ms cables in germany, because everyone only offers the modules, but not the cables^^
Sure, just make sure it has the same specifications, a 2.1mm barrel plug with 5.5mm outer diameter. If the center hole is too small or the outside diameter is too large the plug wont fit and in the opposite is true then the plug might fit but not make good solid contact.

Take a look at companies that make/sell accessories for guitar pedal power supplies as you can often find cables that will work, although try to get one that is reasonably heavy duty since some made for guitar pedals are very thin and not designed for the amount of current a Row Power module requires.
mrfang
Alphaman wrote:

nice. thanks for the response. and can i use other cables too (if they exist)? currently it is very hard to get these original 4ms cables in germany, because everyone only offers the modules, but not the cables^^


Schneidersladen carries the 4ms right-angle barrel cable:

https://www.schneidersladen.de/en/4ms-rowpower-jumper-cable-angled.htm l

And they have a few left of the long straight version, which is now discontinued:

https://www.schneidersladen.de/en/4ms-rowpower-jumper-cable-long.html
Alphaman
i don't purchase stuff from this bum's store Schneider's anymore since my first order there, but another music store sells the original ones
mrfang
Right-angle barrel cables in Germany are also available here:

https://www.musicstore.com/en_US/USD/4ms-Barrel-power-cable-rt-angle/a rt-SYN0006935-000
phantommovement
Alphaman wrote:
i don't purchase stuff from this bum's store Schneider's anymore since my first order there, but another music store sells the original ones


Care to explain what happened with Schneidersladen? I bought my first batch of modules there and thought they are excellent.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Page 1 of 6
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group