Sax and violins - idiomatic synthesis

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JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:41 pm

Beermaster wrote:
Infrablue wrote:
mousegarden wrote:Try listening to Classical Chinese opera, thin, high, no bass, incomprehensible to most Westerners. And then play some electronica to a tribe in South America, they will feel the same.
We are so arrogant here in the West, like the whole world has our values.

MouseGarden.
I don't see how it makes me arrogant when it's the Eastern musicians who are always playing incorrect scales and accidentally playing between real notes.
Ha ha ! bang on ! :hihi:
+1.3333... :lol:

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Post by CJ Miller » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:51 pm

TheBradster wrote:I went to the Chinese Opera once, and a large part of the audience could barely contain themselves laughing.
What is the motivation for containing this laughter? Are you implying that this reaction would be undesirable? Suggesting that people are supposed to have a specific kind of experience there does not sound like much of a critique...

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Infrablue
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Post by Infrablue » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:10 pm

CJ Miller wrote:
Infrablue wrote:I don't see how it makes me arrogant when it's the Eastern musicians who are always playing incorrect scales and accidentally playing between real notes.
What people may be playing does not make you arrogant. But what counts as incorrect or accidental depends entirely upon what an artists goals are. Perhaps their goals do not involve appealing to your sense of formalism or aesthetics? If you are saying that you know how other people should or should not play (or are likewise fronting for somebody else doing so), then I would dismiss this as an arrogant claim. Not that you "are" an arrogant person. But I would just generally say that it is arrogant for anybody to presume what an artist should do, or how they should do it, when the former is ignorant of the goals of the latter.

How is "correcting" the music of other cultures any less bigoted than insisting that others' views are incorrect unless formulated in your preferred language?
To be clear, I was being sarcastic/joking... with an example of true arrogance. :mrgreen: "Correct" is not a valid term to use this way.

As far as laughing during a Chinese Opera... for sure it could be good or bad. If it was intended as mockery or simply was done out of having bad manners, then very sad... if it was due to an intended funny part in the performance, or simply just from delight, then that's fine.

But for sure, we do get set in our cultural musical ways, and it's very healthy to explore other cultures. Amazing things to be found all over the world. And the Western musical contributions are equally valid and wonderful.

In fact, the Western orchestra borrowed from the East when adopting the use of the oboe and other instruments, just the way Earth has adopted electronic synthesizers from the Pleiadians.
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:15 am

TheBradster wrote:I went to the Chinese Opera once, and a large part of the audience could barely contain themselves laughing.
They had a good time, that's the main thing.

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Post by TheBradster » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:58 am

CJ Miller wrote:
TheBradster wrote:I went to the Chinese Opera once, and a large part of the audience could barely contain themselves laughing.
What is the motivation for containing this laughter? Are you implying that this reaction would be undesirable? Suggesting that people are supposed to have a specific kind of experience there does not sound like much of a critique...
No value judgement implied CJ, just an observation. Where is there an implied critique?
Infrablue wrote: In fact, the Western orchestra borrowed from the East when adopting the use of the oboe and other instruments, just the way Earth has adopted electronic synthesizers from the Pleiadians.
Heheh. Yes, your synthesis technology is developing, Earthlings. But you still must learn to harness this power before it destroys you :alien:

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:10 am

Sorry to stray slightly off-topic, but There seems to be a lot of cats on this forum ? Is there a particular reason for this ?

MouseGarden.

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:10 am

Sorry to stray slightly off-topic, but there seems to be a lot of cats on this forum ? Is there a particular reason for this ?

MouseGarden.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:28 am

mousegarden wrote:Sorry to stray slightly off-topic, but there seems to be a lot of cats on this forum ? Is there a particular reason for this ?

MouseGarden.
There weren't any cats on this forum until the word got out that there was a mousegarden here! :hihi:

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Post by CJ Miller » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:41 am

TheBradster wrote:
CJ Miller wrote:
TheBradster wrote:I went to the Chinese Opera once, and a large part of the audience could barely contain themselves laughing.
What is the motivation for containing this laughter? Are you implying that this reaction would be undesirable? Suggesting that people are supposed to have a specific kind of experience there does not sound like much of a critique...
No value judgement implied CJ, just an observation. Where is there an implied critique?
In the containment of laughter, I suppose. My experience is that people do not usually try to not laugh. I encounter a surprising (to me) amount of critique based on the idea that one is "supposed" to feel compelled to react in a certain way to some media or experience. Such as "I did not even laugh once at this movie", or "This music was impossible for me to dance to". When people don't go into more detail than observations such as these, I call this an implied critique. The whole critique being that somebody should have experienced a different reaction than they did.

Or, as you were saying, it can just be an observation!

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:55 am

JohnLRice wrote:
mousegarden wrote:Sorry to stray slightly off-topic, but there seems to be a lot of cats on this forum ? Is there a particular reason for this ?

MouseGarden.
There weren't any cats on this forum until the word got out that there was a mousegarden here! :hihi:
Just keep away, I'm fully qualified in mouse maga.....

:headcrab:

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Post by Infrablue » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:59 pm

Posted this elsewhere but wanted to show it in here as I think it's applicable.

It's a new method of vibrato/expression on keyboards that I just finished building.

The video shows a good representation of how one of my interests is, not always necessarily emulating certain acoustic instruments, but rather, emulating types of expression and access to human muscle that we more often find with acoustic instruments... and then adding that into the mix with other things you'll only hear a synthesizer do.

Here the prototype is controlling pitch through direct CV.

...so, a keyboard with the new prototype attached, and then an EVI part comes in for a duet.

[video][/video]
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:10 am

Infrablue wrote:Posted this elsewhere but wanted to show it in here as I think it's applicable.

It's a new method of vibrato/expression on keyboards that I just finished building.

The video shows a good representation of how one of my interests is, not always necessarily emulating certain acoustic instruments, but rather, emulating types of expression and access to human muscle that we more often find with acoustic instruments... and then adding that into the mix with other things you'll only hear a synthesizer do.

Here the prototype is controlling pitch through direct CV.

...so, a keyboard with the new prototype attached, and then an EVI part comes in for a duet.

[video][/video]
Some interesting stuff going on around 135/140 don't know what's going on there, and please don't tell me, it's your idea, but it is interesting.

MouseGarden.

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Post by TheBradster » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Very nice Infrablue - the Wobble Bar sounds very expressive! Are you using aftertouch as well? Love the sounds - the bit mousegarden refers to sounds like one VCO being pitch swept against another, but that's just a guess.

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Post by Infrablue » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:37 pm

TheBradster wrote:Very nice Infrablue - the Wobble Bar sounds very expressive! Are you using aftertouch as well? Love the sounds - the bit mousegarden refers to sounds like one VCO being pitch swept against another, but that's just a guess.
Thank you Bradster and Mousegarden...

No aftertouch on this patch. Pretty much when the sound gets creature-like, I'm very carefully fading in CV up from zero... from a pretty chaotic-sh/complex generating patch that is mainly doing FM on the melodic osc.

It was a good patch, except that it was so unpredictable and complex that I had a good many takes I threw out because what I faded in was just stupid or felt wrong or something. But it made it more creature-ish in the process... it was like "ok, poke the creature with a stick again and let's try another take and see what it does..."

I usually like far more predictable mods available but this was fun. And the final take really had some nice happy accidents from that source that sounded nothing like any of the many previous takes.

I photographed the patch incase I ever want to explore it more.... and it was cool enough that it may be good to record a long track of it through Silent Way into Logic, to maybe use later.

The watery/chirpy noise patch in the "credits" section was just a test patch I kept throwing things into in order to test whether I'd damaged any modules when I had a power issue. I didn't plan to use it ever but I thought it sounded interesting enough to press record on while I tweaked it here and there.

Thanks for listening :)
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

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Post by Savage » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:49 am

In my case, it really depends upon the project or situation.

For synth, yes, I do sometimes use synth for imitative sounds -- other instruments, sounds of nature, etc. i.e.,When I was called upon to do so for a duet's song, I made the sound of huge leathern wings flapping and soaring in a circle overhead. It all actually turned out pretty scary, which is what they wanted. But I also create 'pure' electronic sounds that aren't imitative of anything, such as my current patch I'm working with.

I play a number of instruments, and I have played nearly all of them in non-idiomatic ways at some point, I suppose. But, I learn to play them in the standard fashion first because that's the way I prefer to play them initially. (I don't pick up an instrument that I don't know how to play and just start making noises with it.) I find that learning to play an instrument the way it is usually played enables me to understand the scope of what the instrument is capable of and makes it much easier to reach beyond what is normally done with it.

And, yes, the banjo is one of those instruments. I've played the banjo for more than forty years, and I've played ragas on it, electrified it and echoed the finger rolls just right until it sounded like electronic sequencing, as well as "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" at 240 bpm.

I know most of the banjo jokes...
What's the best use of a banjo? Firewood.
How do you get a banjo player out of a tree? Cut the rope.
What's worse than a banjo? Banjos.

Actually, I've heard these jokes applied to bassoons, as well. But I don't play bassoon. I'd like to, though.

I have also played lead electric guitar in a number of bands. So I know all of the lead guitarist jokes. (How many lead guitarists are needed to screw in a light bulb? Only one. He just holds the bulb and lets the world revolve around him.) I don't know any about the piano, mandolin, flute, clarinet, hammer dulcimer, violin, flat-top or arch-top guitars, dobro or steel guitar, etc., or even the modular synth. But, please, fire away.

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Post by spinach_pizza » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:08 am

Savage wrote:
I don't know any about the ... flute.... But, please, fire away.
How do you get three flutists to play in tune? Shoot two of them.

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Post by Savage » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:54 am

spinach_pizza wrote:
Savage wrote:
I don't know any about the ... flute.... But, please, fire away.
How do you get three flutists to play in tune? Shoot two of them.
I think you may be onto something there! :hihi:

BTW, it's "flautist". Oh, my! It's "flautist", is it? Aren't we posh! Let us repose to the seteé and have crumpets and ladyfingers as we listen to the grahnd piahno! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

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Post by mousegarden » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 am

I'm going to get into dodgy territory I know, but, my experience of flute players has been a disaster, we had one in our band, always arguments and fall-outs, really annoying. Also, woodwind players are a nightmare, but brass players, completely different animal, great people........I'm just going to get under cover now and wait for the flak....... :hihi:

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Post by Infrablue » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:10 pm

A new test I did... it had some violin-ish emulation in it, this time directly on a keyboard... breath control also and vibrato on keys.

Hope to one day have a TouchKeys set up do similar things as this.

Will be going soon to a piezo instead of pot for the vibrato, which will let it go right back in tune once the vibrato stops and I go to another note etc... (Nyle Steiner gave me that tip just recently).

[video][/video]
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/


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Post by Infrablue » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:19 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:that's a nice track, but.....

it doesn't sound like violin.

And vibrato is evil.
But it sounds exactly like a violin-ish.

I check the oscilloscope freeware and it said so. It said violin-ish. I even used rosin on the keys so it must have sounded right.
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

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Post by Infrablue » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:20 pm

And I do appreciate your saying nice track. :)
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

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Post by mojopin » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:29 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote: And vibrato is evil.
And here I thought all modulations were created equal. What is evil are those all-black keys!

Very expressive contraptions you keep making. Please don't stop!

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