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Sequencer Analog / Digital
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Sequencer Analog / Digital
urogijani
Please can somebody tell me what is the difference between Digital and Analog Sequencers !? I want to buy some day an oberkorn, but till I will use I think a max for live sequencer with my kenton pro 2000 !!!Its just the workflow or is there any other hearable etc. difference between analog and digital seq. ?

Thanks

Jani
odecahedron
no audible difference...

analog sequencers pass CV and Gate voltages, digital sequencers pass digitally encoded 1's and 0's... neither GENERATE audio, they tell the oscillators how to behave over time. they dont make audioi themselves.

some argue analog sequencers are more immediate and have more hands-on/live applications but this is really down to how u want to use the sequencer and what u are familiar with (if at all). gate switching with analog sequencers is super fun and can give a lot of variation to live/realtime performance, though digital sequencers (midi or from a DAW) usually have way more note capacity as far as my awareness goes.
with analog u can also use peripheral modules like clock dividers and random gates etc to get more out of them, not that these features are not available digitally, but again - its the hands on thing, which why we are all cut from the MUFF in the first place right?


anyway, it really still boils down to how u want to use a sequencer in general, and what ur already used to (or prepared to learn). i have a few analog seqs and a midi seq, i dont use a DAW but may do in future. i have no overall preference.
Nelson Baboon
well, an 'event' played exactly the same way (with all parameters the same) will sound the same.

But there are differences that would make sequences sound different.

Do you want the ability to easily edit the individual steps without regard to a standard scale? I'm not sure that there is a midi sequencer that allows that. Some will allow you to send out pitch bend per step, but that is very much not the same experience.

Do you want to control the sequencers speed, say, with an oscillator, and have it go up into audio rates, even listening to the output of the sequencer itself? Midi doesn't do that at all.

Do you want the ability to do pretty precise algorithmic stuff? Then you're getting into digital territory. You're not going to find an analog sequencer that, once ever 7 steps, will send out a message that says, repeat, with 25% probability, repeat the corresponding step of another track of another length, 7 times in rapid succession, etc.....you can start replicating some of these things, but you'll never get to the complex type of algorithmic sequencing that something like the Cirklon allows.

In the extremes (if that's what you're looking for) these differences are dramatic.

If you like to improvise with an analog sequencer, and you consider the sequencing just as intimate a part of the sound as any other component - an oscillator, an lfo, a filter - then I've never tried a midi/digital sequencer that's in the same ballpark.

If what you want is basically a simple sequence of X steps, and you want quantized pitches so that everything is in tune, then it makes no sense to spend for analog sequencer. But the process, and the EXTREMES, are dramatically different (and ultimately encountered if that's what you're looking for)
sunsinger
as stated above, he's correct. I've got about 16 channels of 8 to 16 note analog sequencers. But as of late, I'm finding that a digital, computer based sequencer I have used, I'm turning back to it more and more. It really kicks the crap out of my analog sequencers. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give up my hardware sequencers, not even a channel.

Numerology by Five12, is the software sequencer I'm referring to. It runs on Mac, and it's based on the principles of the analog sequencer. It sends CV via midi outs. It has unlimited channels, and does sequencing gymnastics that my analogs can only dream of,

numerology can be physically controlled, at almost every parameter, by up to 5 ganged Novation Launchpads to which Numerology has been very thoughtfully mapped.

It also has chord sequencing, music theory and scales built in, a very cool sampling drum machine, and arpeggiators. Numerology hosts AU plugins and FX, has loads of LFO tricks, and a sampler and looper engine coming out soon.

I've been doing some really nice things with my hardware sequencers, but now I'm beginning to hybridize my rig by bringing this very useful software sequencer back in to my bag of tricks.

The only thing that Numerology is limited by is the number of Midi to CV interfaces you have, and voices to go with them. And only running on a Mac.

I'm not a shill for Numerology, just a very enthusiastic user. I also really like my Suit & Tie Guy Time Modules Suite of hardware sequencers. My DET 3 Archangel sequencer, and my Q960.

Everything works together beautifully in concert. The immediacy of the Launchpad control of Numerology has increased my creativity by leaps.
Nelson Baboon
How does Numerology send cv? It sends only midi. He uses cv as a metaphor only.


sunsinger wrote:
as stated above, he's correct. I've got about 16 channels of 8 to 16 note analog sequencers. But as of late, I'm finding that a digital, computer based sequencer I have used, I'm turning back to it more and more. It really kicks the crap out of my analog sequencers. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give up my hardware sequencers, not even a channel.

Numerology by Five12, is the software sequencer I'm referring to. It runs on Mac, and it's based on the principles of the analog sequencer. It sends CV via midi outs. It has unlimited channels, and does sequencing gymnastics that my analogs can only dream of,

numerology can be physically controlled, at almost every parameter, by up to 5 ganged Novation Launchpads to which Numerology has been very thoughtfully mapped.

It also has chord sequencing, music theory and scales built in, a very cool sampling drum machine, and arpeggiators. Numerology hosts AU plugins and FX, has loads of LFO tricks, and a sampler and looper engine coming out soon.

I've been doing some really nice things with my hardware sequencers, but now I'm beginning to hybridize my rig by bringing this very useful software sequencer back in to my bag of tricks.

The only thing that Numerology is limited by is the number of Midi to CV interfaces you have, and voices to go with them. And only running on a Mac.

I'm not a shill for Numerology, just a very enthusiastic user. I also really like my Suit & Tie Guy Time Modules Suite of hardware sequencers. My DET 3 Archangel sequencer, and my Q960.

Everything works together beautifully in concert. The immediacy of the Launchpad control of Numerology has increased my creativity by leaps.
sunsinger
Using this as a metaphor. I meant by this, that midi creates the CV at the Midi to CV interface. The LFO sections in numerology gives some pretty cool Midi to CV possibilities. I hooked the LFO module in Numerology up to my MOTM 650 through Aux outputs, and got some really fluid filter fluctuations.

Numerology is best served by using something like "Silent Way" with it to generate the CV.
Nelson Baboon
sunsinger wrote:
Using this as a metaphor. I meant by this, that midi creates the CV at the Midi to CV interface. The LFO sections in numerology gives some pretty cool Midi to CV possibilities. I hooked the LFO module in Numerology up to my MOTM 650 through Aux outputs, and got some really fluid filter fluctuations.

Numerology is best served by using something like "Silent Way" with it to generate the CV.


ok. but obviously any midi sequencer does this.

Numerology is great. I don't find the experience of sending out midi through a midi to cv interface into an analog synth (or using computer software) to be the same at all if you're into an improvisatory experience. Ultimately, that is more and more what I want from a sequencer. So, to me (and admittedly my experience is idiosyncratic) I find the difference to be dramatic. When people ask me if there is a 'difference' between analog and digital, in fact, I find that in my own thought process and music, this part of it is far more important than whether the sound sources themselves are analog or digital.

But probably for most uses, especially if you're into quantized pitches, something like Numerology or the Cirklon is far superior.

But I'm at the point of selling the last of my midi only gear, so I'm probably a bit biased by now. Then again, I've used an awful lot of sequencers.
sunsinger
You're right Nelson, of course. For me right now, I'm doing mostly quantized melodic sequences. Analog sequencers offer much in an improvisational style, and I use them for both experimental improv, and melodic purposes.

I think I've seen you go through quite a few sequencers. It seems like you're looking for something... Much like the way a guitar player goes through cabinets and pedals, to find that elusive tone. I love listening to the tone textures you create, and I'm guessing that you are using your sequencers to generate these in ways I haven't even considered.

I hope one day to plumb some of your techniques with sequencing. For now, I'm just doing boring old revisitations of the 1970's with mine.
urogijani
Thank You guys !!! Much information here !!! I will try out Numerology… Also yesterday I tried out sending parameter locks from Elektron MD sequencer thru Kenton Pro-2000 and its fantastic smile You just set up some parameter locks on the Electron sequencer for example to CC 7 and You set up in Kenton the same cc for AUX and You can control with that anything !!! For step sequencing it is good, but when You set up slide or you just turn that CC knob You hear those digital steps in it !!! So its nice to control things like that, but maybe I want an analog sequencer, like I was reading that there are zoo much difference in them !!! Have You any experiences with Oberkorn ??? I like the tutorial videos for it !!! Very versatile I think !!! Also I saw that they made Eurokorn !!! A bit cheaper but no midi and needs so much space but thats not a problem for me !!! What do You think ? Anyway thanks for the answers smile))
sunsinger
Thanks, you'll have some real fun with Numerology.

I don't know anything about the Korn sequencers. I like the older generation Future Retro stuff myself. Great sequencers, tank like builds. These sequencers are midi to cv converters, Dyn Sync generator, and lots of CV options. The Möbius is the one everyone seems to gravitate to. It's a Swiss Army knife sequencer. I use mine as the clock to run everything on my 112 module rig.

I use a lot of Suit & Tie Guy sequencers. The Time Modules Suite all runs off of DYN SYNC. A very stable clock, tight as a drum. I use my Möbius to generate the Dyn from. Very powerful 0% latency. I'm running up to four complete sequencer systems with it.

Whatever you do. HAVE FUN!
CJ Miller
Analog versus digital sequencers depends upon whether one defines digital as discrete, or specifically binary. For instance, a quantizer or S&H offers a discrete digital signal for an output - even though this signal is not constrained to only on/off values. These are digital without being binary. Anything which depends wholly upon logic chips or microprocessors for its output is binary - although these binary signals can be converted to analog ones afterwards. This seems to be mostly a semantic phantom, since sequencers all deal with discrete events in some way.

Most sequencers in analog synths have traditionally relied upon CMOS counter chips. These offer the advantage of being mostly self-contained. They work like a simple shift register which just passes one value down over time.

Programmable analog sequencers use a microprocessor or microcontroller to set the count, based on the idea that they are capable of more address modes than a few simple logic chips. ie, besides back and forth, they can do random, or other algorithms.

More recent CMOS analog sequencers such as the Klee or CGS13 use regular shift register ICs instead of counters, because they can be far more versatile. Since the bits are accessible, one can apply logic, switching, and other functions inside the sequence chain. And, in some instances, have multiple steps active simultaneously.

The most low-level analog sequencer I suppose is a discrete ring counter, made of 555s, comparators, or whatever. Each stage is a patchable node which pulses in time according to its setting and input. These are probably the most flexible, but require more discrete semiconductors and patching to get useful output from them. Their complexity is generally mitigated by the use of some clever reset/control functions such as in the PAiA 4780, Moog 960, or CGS59.
trinithis
Quote:
S&H offers a discrete digital signal for an output

Only if your S&H has a built-in quantizer that you cannot disable (of if your S&H is crazy limited). My analog S&H samples and holds continuous values.

Quote:
These are digital without being binary.

You are confusing the word 'digital' with the word 'discrete'.
Infinity Curve
trinithis wrote:
Quote:
S&H offers a discrete digital signal for an output

Only if your S&H has a built-in quantizer that you cannot disable (of if your S&H is crazy limited). My analog S&H samples and holds continuous values.

Quote:
These are digital without being binary.

You are confusing the word 'digital' with the word 'discrete'.


You know you are responding to a 4 year old post, right?
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