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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Ideas and Opinions
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Ideas and Opinions
Glitchmachines
I've been around the forum for a while - registered nearly a year ago...

I used to have a Doepfer Monster base nearly filled with modules until things went down hill... but that's another story entirely;


I recently jumped back on track and purchased a Monorocket Mission 9 (which rocks - more on that later in another thread) and several modules.

I own about a third of these modules - some are not yet in production, and in that sense this is purely hypothetical.


My plan is to basically build a system that is focused on experimental sounds.

Think Euro Music Easel....

I am not interested in making traditional keyboard sounds.


I know that there are many things missing that I plan to implement in the next 9U case.

I'm very interested in the often discussed idea of creating an Instrument, rather than just a collection of modules. That's the reason for the symmetry...

What do you think?
jonkull
I'd lose the Format Jumbler and add a Doepfer A156 Quantizer. It goes very well with the Noisering and Wogglebug.
Glitchmachines
I already have the Jumbler - but it's a customized version that is all 1/8" and 1/4" jacks. It's like a mega mult...


Good call on the quantizer though - am planning on one (hopefully the upcoming Tip Top one) for the next case...
dkcg
The Hertz Donut may sound more Buchla than any of the oscillators in there now. Everything else looks great.

Did you see this thread?
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9978
parasitk
I would want a waveshaper/folder/multiplier. Maybe in place of one of the Wogglebugs or Noise Rings.
jonkull
Well then I think you're set. Looks like an interesting setup.
Glitchmachines
dkcg wrote:
The Hertz Donut may sound more Buchla than any of the oscillators in there now. Everything else looks great.

Did you see this thread?
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9978


screaming goo yo Yep did see that!

And I agree about the Hertz- it's in one of my alternate plans 8_)
DGTom
As great as the symettery is.. I think its two (Edit: typo... I'm leaving it) heavy on modulation sources & too light on timbral modification, I'd drop one each of the WoggleBugs / Noise Rings to make room.

With Woggle X Maths + Noisering X Maths + 2 X MARF to the power of matrix seq. thats still a tonne of squiggly voltages, give them something to do grin

Topp folder would go really well with a HD I bet (someone tell me I'm wrong so I can stop lusting MY ASS IS BLEEDING )
blungo2
Maybe i'm not getting your intent, but i don't see the need for the borg when you have two qmmgs.

edit. +1 on reccomending the HD, it's an absolute monster.
loudone
i have a borg and qmmg
the borg into the qmmg is fun to say the least, like prom night again if i remember.... hmmm.....
edited for the fact i didn't comment on the setup.....
i like the idea and look, but with multis and mixer i would get a few differnt things, maybe lose one each woggle, noisering, and antiO, and get some other stuff liek a wavefolder, ulfo, pll, quanitiser,
just shooting from the hip here.
Rockin' Banana! But, i must say it does look real fun as is.
Glitchmachines
Thank you all for your feedback!

You got me thinking that I will have to say goodbye to the whole symmetry idea in favor of a more diverse system.

I actually originally planned on many of the other modules you have suggested, and ended up narrowing it down in order to come up with this layout.

In the end, I guess I have to just come to terms with the fact that I will only benefit from having a wider range of modules.
itijik
How about a full row of Maths? razz
Cat-A-Tonic
You might want to consider a bipolar mixer for control voltages.
The QMMG might do the job, but you could find something else that probably does it better, and in less space.

Borg + Boogie + 2xQMMG = 10 LPGs!
Considering the number of *primary* sound sources this seems like over-kill in a 9U case.

I agree about a stand-alone wave folder being a good consideration.
...even though the Anti-Oscillators have them built in.

VC delay would be a nice addition.

The symmetry does *look* nice, but I think you would be better off balancing the functions to work better as a self-contained 'instrument.'
parasitk
Cat-A-Tonic wrote:

I agree about a stand-alone wave folder being a good consideration.
...even though the Anti-Oscillators have them built in.


It's different though. I'd want an STG Folder too at least.

Also, agreed on the bipolar mixer!
NV
I would definitely drop the symmetry idea. As Cat-A-Tonic said, it certainly looks nice, but approaching a system with a rigid symmetrical framework severely limits your capabilities. The Wogglebug and Noisering are certainly great, but I can't imagine recommending two of each in a 9U system. You may very well find that you get all the random you need out of just one Wogglebug or one Noisering while the other three gather dust. If you're really into the random approach of those two, I'd say get one of each and call it a day in that department. People will always swoon over the radical idea of having ten Wogglebugs in one system or four QMMGs, but the amount of things you could do with a variety of other modules in that space or for that money is far more swoon worthy in my opinion.

Also along the symmetry line, I think it's a good idea to get different types of oscillators in a smaller system like 9U. The Anti-Osc is certainly a unique and capable sound source, but I think you would find more variety out of combining an Anti-Osc with something like an AFG or Hertz Donut rather than two AOs. The AO is an admittedly limited oscillator and you may find those limitations frustrating rather than charming when you don't have any other options to choose from.

Bipolar mixers are fantastic. Get a Doepfer A-138c for cheap and enjoy the huge amount of potential it adds to your CV signals. I'd say at least one bipolar mixer would be a huge benefit to any system, and arguably an absolute must in a system that is designed for more experimental uses.

QMMGs are incredible, but you may want to consider sticking to just one and filling the space of the second with different modules - perhaps some VCAs with a different flavor like the upcoming V'Amp or the tried and true Doepfer A-132-3 for a more standard approach, then use the remaining space for another couple modules. Maybe an interesting CV manipulation module like the Doepfer A-166 Dual Logic coupled with a more extreme effect like the FoH Plague Bearer so you can tap into some madness when you want to.

As far as some extra additions, quantizers can add a huge deal to a system with random sources - an easy way to meld chaos into structure if you so choose. Also you may want to consider Flight of Harmony's upcoming Sound of Shadows delay - just one delay can add a whole new dimension to a system, particularly one with the modulation capabilities of the SoS.
incekt
don't listen to them, it's perfect...,.
richard
it looks mindblowing, but I too would change it and lose the beauty factor, I would lose a woggle, an anti osc, a noisering and try to get a an HD and STG waveshaper, and probably a morphing terranium in there too. I love the borg but you don't really need it there!

R
Illiac
I love it. It looks like a wedding cake made of evil...
nomass
Wow, it's a gorgeous looking system.

Keeping both Wogglebugs would allow you to make the child tones of the original 300 bug.

I might also recommend a different second oscillator, although I love the AO. You might want something like the afg or ZO.
Reptil
Very nice, very interesting.
here are FWIW my thoughts:
-the reason for symmetry is that you are going to operate both sides simultanuously? using your left and right hand? or do you want a stereo setup? Just for the symmetry in your mind when working on it? Does a symmetrical approach mean a balance in your thoughts when composing, or playing?
no, if I understand correctly, your goal is different, and result oriënted, go for a "flow" with clusters of modules, so you won't be "tied" mentally to a "chain" of modules. Give a random module an accessable place (in the middle)
"controlled chaos" I have a simular idea (flexible platform for experimental instruments), and will post a screenshot later (that is, if you don't mind)

-Definitively include a different oscillator, keep the two Anti-Osc. (it works better as a pair so it seems) Lose one QMMG. Add a clean VCA. Add a few utility modules (add a different sequencer perhaps), some way of playing it, and it's perfect.
anselmi
buy what you want man, it´s your money!

build that system with the symmetry concept and then another more widely functional one

limitations on that system will direct you to another territories than a system with more "sense" in the stupid sense of the word...so maybe you reach other sonic territories that many other musicians with more functinal systems can´t...exagerated LPG action for example

and if you like the look this will inspire you to play the synth more than if you don´t like your instrument, so keep it that way...it looks fantastic
tIB
My OCD wants you to turn the wogglebug on the right upside down...
anselmi
tIB wrote:
My OCD wants you to turn the wogglebug on the right upside down...


genius! SlayerBadger!
blungo2
loudone wrote:
i have a borg and qmmg
the borg into the qmmg is fun to say the least, like prom night again if i remember.... hmmm.....
edited for the fact i didn't comment on the setup.....
i like the idea and look, but with multis and mixer i would get a few differnt things, maybe lose one each woggle, noisering, and antiO, and get some other stuff liek a wavefolder, ulfo, pll, quanitiser,
just shooting from the hip here.
Rockin' Banana! But, i must say it does look real fun as is.


I guess it's just my perspective. I'm not much of a filter guy, i only used the borg as an lpg. When i got the qmmg i had plenty of lpg so i sold the borg.
I can see how it would be very cool to use the combo though.
Glitchmachines
Thanks again for all of your thoughtful feedback.

I will follow your advice and give up the dream of building a symmetrical system ... after giving it further thought, I must admit that the primary reason behind it is ultimately just my special brand of OCD lol
anselmi
Subtraqt wrote:
Thanks again for all of your thoughtful feedback.

I will follow your advice and give up the dream of building a symmetrical system ... after giving it further thought, I must admit that the primary reason behind it is ultimately just my special brand of OCD lol



booooo!
the mesiah is dead!...I believed that we was at the dawn of a new era of symetry-driven systems!!! Dead Banana
DGTom
That 9U would be awesome if you had another 6U of utility & timbral modification in front of it.

My 9U Blacet Suitcase is symetrical as fook, but doesn't sacrifice function, it uses the same kind circular logic as Subtraqts layout as well & I can vouch for the awesomeness of that approach.

Don't totally ditch the symetry but don't be a slave to it either thumbs up
wetterberg
DGTom wrote:
My 9U Blacet Suitcase is symetrical as fook, but doesn't sacrifice function, it uses the same kind circular logic as Subtraqts layout as well
here I go thinking circular logic is a bad thing!?
oh, unless we're talking about one of these:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10132












hehe.
tIB
DGTom wrote:
That 9U would be awesome if you had another 6U of utility & timbral modification in front of it.


Pretty much what I was thinking... change the 9U to one symmetrical 6U and another more 'chaotic' 6U...
DGTom
wetterberg wrote:
here I go thinking circular logic is a bad thing!?


circular logic A.K.A Parlimentary Question Time... zing!!! Dead Banana

Dad jokes aside... all music is kind of circular logic isn't it? So makes sense to me to build an instrument that way;

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/252415/Blacet_Suitcase_FULL.jpg

the way I patch is kinda like making a cake, take the stuff from the edges & fold it into the middle & twist Mr. Green
anselmi
[quote="DGTom"]
wetterberg wrote:

the way I patch is kinda like making a cake, take the stuff from the edges & fold it into the middle & twist Mr. Green


interesting...my layouts ussually go more in a mini way at the audio level (left to right) and modulators under the audio ones...but being a modular is hard to pre-define things
Babaluma
symmetry was one of the main design elements when i was building my modular. it may be ocd, but it really helps me find my way around the beastie and makes her a joy to ride. wink
Sound
Subtraqt wrote:

I'm very interested in the often discussed idea of creating an Instrument, rather than just a collection of modules. That's the reason for the symmetry...

What do you think?


I think that is a good concept.

You don't loose anything trying it.
To sell modules than you don't use and buy other ones according your interests in that moment, is a think that you always can do and in my opinion is a thing that you (and all) will do whatever way you choose.

So I would say: Go ahead with your concept instrument symmetry.

Regards.
REwire
The one thing I see missing in any combo of modulators and sound sources you choose is audio mixers. You could run into the QMMG's and use the mix outs but you can use those for more than that. I think a few utility mixers to combine audio signals and also maybe a good output mixer like the Cwejman MX-4S to create a pannable mixing system (like Buchla 227) is needed to make a self contained Music Easel type system.

Dan
Babaluma
agreed. you need more multiples, mixers and passive attenuators if you really want to bring out the full power of the system. either add another rack, or pair down from what you have to allow more room for essential bread and butter items.
wetterberg
REwire wrote:
The one thing I see missing in any combo of modulators and sound sources you choose is audio mixers. You could run into the QMMG's and use the mix outs but you can use those for more than that. I think a few utility mixers to combine audio signals and also maybe a good output mixer like the Cwejman MX-4S to create a pannable mixing system (like Buchla 227) is needed to make a self contained Music Easel type system.

Dan
+1.
NV
Sound wrote:

You don't loose anything trying it.


Well, aside from hundreds in burned turnover cash from buying new modules and selling them when you realize you don't use them.

Buying a system should take careful and deliberate planning. I think it's important that we encourage people to consider and reconsider their systems before taking the plunge - doing it that way takes longer but you end up with a system that truly fits right off the bat rather than something you end up selling/swapping/replacing for months at considerable expense before you finally get to where you could have initially started if you had taken more time.

Measure twice cut once and all that. Ours are expensive endeavors and certainly worth critical thought.
wetterberg
NV wrote:
Sound wrote:

You don't loose anything trying it.


Well, aside from hundreds in burned turnover cash from buying new modules and selling them when you realize you don't use them.

Buying a system should take careful and deliberate planning. I think it's important that we encourage people to consider and reconsider their systems before taking the plunge - doing it that way takes longer but you end up with a system that truly fits right off the bat rather than something you end up selling/swapping/replacing for months at considerable expense before you finally get to where you could have initially started if you had taken more time.

Measure twice cut once and all that. Ours are expensive endeavors and certainly worth critical thought.
I agree completely. In fact, we should do more to encourage incremental creation of these rigs - I truly believe that getting 3U of kit at a time or less is the way to go - you get into the groove with the modules at your disposal.
Sound
NV wrote:

Measure twice cut once and all that.


This is true.

Just like the idea of his concept. Maybe he should measure twice, change something but go ahead with his concept.

Regards.
newgreyarea
I have a 9u that is about half full and I'm loving it. I'm quite surprised that I'm not going gear crazy trying to fill it up!
I'm probably learning more by not buying too much and it affords me the opportunity to figure out what I'm truly missing by maxing out the capabilities of what I have thus far.

I know you love the way your synth looks, Ivo, but I think you're going overboard with the symmetry thing. Get one of each and see what it's lacking from that point.

Or buy 2 of each and sell me them at a considerable savings once you've come to your senses!

AND QUIT PLAYING WITH THE MODULAR PLANNER!!!!
It's only making it worse. I'm so glad that thing wont work on my internet computer.
-brad
Glitchmachines
newgreyarea wrote:
I have a 9u that is about half full and I'm loving it. I'm quite surprised that I'm not going gear crazy trying to fill it up!
I'm probably learning more by not buying too much and it affords me the opportunity to figure out what I'm truly missing by maxing out the capabilities of what I have thus far.

I know you love the way your synth looks, Ivo, but I think you're going overboard with the symmetry thing. Get one of each and see what it's lacking from that point.

Or buy 2 of each and sell me them at a considerable savings once you've come to your senses!

AND QUIT PLAYING WITH THE MODULAR PLANNER!!!!
It's only making it worse. I'm so glad that thing wont work on my internet computer.
-brad


The Planner, as you all know, if both a blessing and a curse. I spend WAAAAY to much time obsessing - at the same time, it has been an invaluable tool.

I've talked myself out of the symmetry in favor of a more versatile system.

Once my OCD settles down, I know I will be glad I did.

Thanks again to all for your help.
tIB
^ and thanks for yours... though im settled on the modules in it you got me thinking much more about the layout of mine; may have come up with something a little more organised and ocd friendly. thumbs up
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