I accidentally a PLL?

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neandrewthal
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I accidentally a PLL?

Post by neandrewthal » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:38 am

I was fooling around with a couple of NOR gates patched up as an RS latch and feeding the not Q output back through a lag processor then an OR gate along with a trigger to create a one shot, then I decided to feed the Q back through another lag for the hell of it and it turned into an oscillator.

Since I was dealing with VC lag processors I plugged in a Klee sequence and was delighted to hear how badly it tracks.

[video][/video]

I got lost and can't remember the exact patch, but the basic principle goes a little something like this:

Image

Is this kind of like what the PLL does? You could say that the NOR gates are the comparators, the latching action is the VCO and the lag processors are the lowpass filter. Or, is this just my PLL envy driving me crazy?
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Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:21 am

at first I was going to say no... but then....
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Post by wetterberg » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:28 am

I'd think you were pretty close, yeah.

What I'd love to hear is the original sequence and the pll'ed sequenced mixed together. Also, it might be easier to hear how it correlates to "perfect tracking" when the sequence isn't as random, perhaps?
:sb:

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Post by parasitk » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:30 am

Woah this is pretty cool. Trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but is this something I can try with the Cynthia Logipac (logic and flipflops) and a pair of slew limiters?

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Post by rezzn8r » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:46 am

Very cool experiment! :sb:
parasitik wrote:Trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but is this something I can try with the Cynthia Logipac (logic and flipflops) and a pair of slew limiters?
I think the logipac is similar to the modcan boolean in that it does AND, OR, and XOR. neandrewthal is messing with a pair of NORs. I think you would also need a couple inverters on the ORs unless that's what the flip-flops do (I'm a little fuzzy on those :hmm:)
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Post by parasitk » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:51 am

rezzn8r wrote:Very cool experiment! :sb:
parasitik wrote:Trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but is this something I can try with the Cynthia Logipac (logic and flipflops) and a pair of slew limiters?
I think the logipac is similar to the modcan boolean in that it does AND, OR, and XOR. neandrewthal is messing with a pair of NORs. I think you would also need a couple inverters on the ORs unless that's what the flip-flops do (I'm a little fuzzy on those :hmm:)
I saw "Not Q" in the patch description, which is why I asked. The Flip Flips have Q/Not Q outs. I'm still getting used to the module!

http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_logipac_app.cfm

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Post by rezzn8r » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:57 am

parasitk wrote:
rezzn8r wrote:Very cool experiment! :sb:
parasitik wrote:Trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but is this something I can try with the Cynthia Logipac (logic and flipflops) and a pair of slew limiters?
I think the logipac is similar to the modcan boolean in that it does AND, OR, and XOR. neandrewthal is messing with a pair of NORs. I think you would also need a couple inverters on the ORs unless that's what the flip-flops do (I'm a little fuzzy on those :hmm:)
I saw "Not Q" in the patch description, which is why I asked. The Flip Flips have Q/Not Q outs. I'm still getting used to the module!

http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_logipac_app.cfm
just had another look at the logipac and yes the flipflops are inverters that check the signal state on the clock pulse.
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Post by JohnLRice » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:37 pm

That's really cool!

. . and, the glimpses of you reflected in the unfinished panels is kind of frightening! With the synth patch going it's like watching an old episode of the Outer Limits. :goo: :hihi:

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Post by neandrewthal » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:54 am

wetterberg wrote:I'd think you were pretty close, yeah.

What I'd love to hear is the original sequence and the pll'ed sequenced mixed together. Also, it might be easier to hear how it correlates to "perfect tracking" when the sequence isn't as random, perhaps?
:sb:
D'oh, I did fool around with this, but I should have done it in the video. It tracks more or less with the low notes, but the higher it is, the more it is off. It was kind of neat, but nowhere near as awesome as the boobtube PLL videos.
parasitk wrote:Woah this is pretty cool. Trying to wrap my head around what you're doing, but is this something I can try with the Cynthia Logipac (logic and flipflops) and a pair of slew limiters?
It should work. It was actually the pictures of your setup that led me to look up that logipac page which inspired me to try this type of thing. Since the cynthia flip flop is probably based on NAND gates with inverters on the inputs, you may have to swap Q and NOTQ

This site is really helpful with regards to the operation of various flip-flops and latches. You can click on the inputs in whatever order you want and see what happens.
JohnLRice wrote:That's really cool!

. . and, the glimpses of you reflected in the unfinished panels is kind of frightening! With the synth patch going it's like watching an old episode of the Outer Limits. :goo: :hihi:
I'm doing my best to get rid of those silly blank panels :razz:
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Post by neandrewthal » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:16 am

[video][/video]

:goo:
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Post by futuresoundsystems » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:34 pm

Could be related or totally OT but you can make very simple oscillators from NAND gates + feedback loops... perhaps you're doing something similar here but dumping in audio too to which it tracks/resonates?

Sounds really cool though :D
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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:08 am

Actually I'm not inserting audio into anything. I looked up the doepfer PLL and understood it slightly more than last time. The main difference is I drive mine with a control voltage, not an audio source. Damn, only 70 euros, I'm thinking about just buying one and sticking it in a 5U panel.
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Post by dude » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:28 am

buy one :hihi:

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:48 am

yeah man, you're using up at least 70 euros worth of modular to get that sound right now, and the PLL will track audio as well.

I for one would LOVE to see it repanelized into 5U.

If you want pics of the pcb/panel setup of the Doepfer PLL, let me know. I can snap some quick-like

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Post by futuresoundsystems » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:01 am

neandrewthal wrote:Actually I'm not inserting audio into anything. I looked up the doepfer PLL and understood it slightly more than last time. The main difference is I drive mine with a control voltage, not an audio source. Damn, only 70 euros, I'm thinking about just buying one and sticking it in a 5U panel.
Ah I see, that's really interesting :hmm:
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Post by rezzn8r » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:41 am

neandrewthal wrote:Damn, only 70 euros, I'm thinking about just buying one and sticking it in a 5U panel.
8_)
that would be uber-cool
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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:26 pm

wetterberg wrote:yeah man, you're using up at least 70 euros worth of modular to get that sound right now, and the PLL will track audio as well.

I for one would LOVE to see it repanelized into 5U.

If you want pics of the pcb/panel setup of the Doepfer PLL, let me know. I can snap some quick-like
Hey, that would be awesome :hail: Do you think there is anything in these things that wouldn't like 15v? And those pots are d-shaft, right?

If I want one, something else has to be cut. Either the VC divider, Min Max or some VCAs. I don't want to cut the VC divider cause it's the perfect pair for the PLL. VCAs, I'm not sure. I'll have 22 of them which is way overkill for my VCA needs, but I'll also be using them in lieu of VC switches in the hopes of creating some seriously long playing patches. I'm thinking the min max is my best bet. I could probably build that functionality into my matrix mixer instead. Aww damn, I'm jonesing for another pulse divider too, and you're making me feel inadequte with your two master dividers :doh:
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Post by wetterberg » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:16 pm

neandrewthal wrote:
wetterberg wrote:yeah man, you're using up at least 70 euros worth of modular to get that sound right now, and the PLL will track audio as well.

I for one would LOVE to see it repanelized into 5U.

If you want pics of the pcb/panel setup of the Doepfer PLL, let me know. I can snap some quick-like
Hey, that would be awesome :hail: Do you think there is anything in these things that wouldn't like 15v? And those pots are d-shaft, right?
I'm on it. I think it'll handle 15v just fine, and the Doepfer pots are all spline shaft.
neandrewthal wrote:I'm jonesing for another pulse divider too, and you're making me feel inadequte with your two master dividers :doh:
*without panels*, mind you, hehe. But yes, two master dividers, and it'll have two pulse dividers next to it as well.

Surely you can find space for 6 jacks, two knobs and two switches, bro. Don't sweat it too much.

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:38 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image

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Post by dude » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:15 pm

pure rock

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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:38 pm

Awesome! Thanks! :sb: And I just noticed AH has a holiday sale on. Sweeeeeeeet.

Now, about them dividers. How do you plan on using all those, mostly? Separately? In series for longer divisions? Some for audio, etc...?
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Post by dougcl » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:39 pm

Eurotraitor!

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:45 pm

neandrewthal wrote:Now, about them dividers. How do you plan on using all those, mostly? Separately? In series for longer divisions? Some for audio, etc...?
Separately, or semi-separately - basically the Master Divider will act as a divide-down circuit for incoming gates from my Arduino beast that I'm still working on. So I can get cascading gates and such from "just" 16 outputs from the computer or the arduinos built-in programs.

But I have to say though that most of what they'll be doing will be replaced by Arduinos in the future.

I should perhaps look into selling off one Pulse Divider pcb and a populated Master Divider.

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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:52 pm

dougcl wrote:Eurotraitor!
This all all your fault!

:fu:
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Post by dude » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:59 pm

neandrewthal wrote:
dougcl wrote:Eurotraitor!
This all all your fault!

:fu:
no fucking shit, look what happened to me because of that asshole:
ack!

:hihi: oh doug i still you 125 bones for that "thing" the other day...

got the :picard: covered

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