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Corsynth C104 VCO vs Dotcom Q106
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Corsynth C104 VCO vs Dotcom Q106
alternating.bit
Ok, new contender... anyone have the C104 and care to share pros/cons or comparisons with the Q106? Much appreciated.

NYMo
Yeah...I used to have two of the Odyssey of sound.
Get it ?? Arp Odyssey. Q106 more Moogish.
The 104s were really nice osc.
Best thing to do is try yourself.
That is the only way one really knows.
(Btw I like your DM style of music)

Cheers
sonicwarrior
C104:
+ Has a ring mod
+ Soft clipper
+ Both coarse tune und three way octave switch (best of both worlds IMHO)

- no linear FM

I made two quick n dirty demos for it (really: Took me maybe 5 minutes to patch and I used the first sequence I came up with and the first take I recorded):

Patch description:
Quote:
Got the Corsynth C104 Odyssey of Sound VCO today and this is a quick and dirty demo of all the outputs and all CV possibilities. At ca. 30 seconds you'll hear some clicks which happened while using the sync input with the output of an SSL Double Deka whose frequency was below that of the C104.

The pseudo sequence is the SSL Double Deka and most of the CV modulation is done by the sine of the Megaohm Delta VCF. I think I used the DoubleDeka there at some points, too.


[s]http://soundcloud.com/changeling/2013-04-03-corsynth-c104-vco[/s]

Sync sound patch description:

Quote:
Sync demo for the Corsynth C104 Odyssey of Sound VCO. Sync sources are Saw Out from a 2006 Curetronic VCO Lite and Rec Out from a 2006 Curetronic Quad LFO. The VCO Lite and the C104 are sequenced by an SSL DoubleDeka.


[s]http://soundcloud.com/changeling/2013-04-03-corsynth-c104-vco-1[/s]

Beware: You hear the pure waveform outputs. Will sound totally different when using a filter.


Not even a VCA is used. Modulation depth is pretty intense. In a real track I would probably only crank it up that high for FX sounds but I like that it is possible.
alternating.bit
WOW - sonicwarrior those distorted segments are AWESOME! Though I'm sure that could probably be done with any oscillator??.... difficult to really know unless you did the same setup with another OSC and did an A/B comparison. But that sounds really rich.

NYMo wrote:
Yeah...I used to have two of the Odyssey of sound.
Get it ?? Arp Odyssey. Q106 more Moogish.
Cheers


Ok, cool -- how would you classify the Oakely Slim (SVCO-B) then as far as a similar synth sound? I only have 2 rack spaces left so I have to decide carefully...

NYMo wrote:

(Btw I like your DM style of music)
Cheers


Thanks so much! thumbs up
holovicc
I have both: first i bought a set of the Q106, but fell in love with the C104, so added two of those during the summer sale smile The C104 is a different texture. The texture is rather unique, the top end is very sweet, very rich.

Featurewise (Apart from what Sonicwarrior mentioned) the Q106 can have soft sync on the expander.

DSC on the C104 is really useful so is the ringmod.
sonicwarrior
alternating.bit wrote:
WOW - sonicwarrior those distorted segments are AWESOME!


Thanks, good to know there are some people who like such elements.

alternating.bit wrote:
Though I'm sure that could probably be done with any oscillator??


Depends on which part you mean. I think I also used the soft clipper in the first demo so for that you would need an external one with a similar sound.
I agree with holovicc that the soft clipper aka DSC is pretty useful and unique and together with the coarse pot + octave swith and ring mod was one of the reasons I got it.
alternating.bit
Ok so if anyone can help me make a final decision here, I'd appreciate it...
If the Q106 is Moog-like, and the C104 is Arp Odessy-like...

What does THIS unit emulate sound-wise?

Michel van der Aa
to make life even more difficult, check out this VCO blind test:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1342670
LoveHertz
holovicc wrote:
I have both: first i bought a set of the Q106, but fell in love with the C104, so added two of those during the summer sale smile The C104 is a different texture. The texture is rather unique, the top end is very sweet, very rich.

Featurewise (Apart from what Sonicwarrior mentioned) the Q106 can have soft sync on the expander.

DSC on the C104 is really useful so is the ringmod.


I'm interested to know what is ment by 'rich' when referring to an osciilator. I would prefer my oscillators as clean as possible especially the sinewave tho few vco's seem to be and most have some irregularites, so to me the purest would be my choice. isn't it easy enuff to get (dirt),harmonics/overtones later?, if thats what is ment.

All the same the corsynth 104 looks to have some interesting features tho.
alternating.bit
Michel van der Aa wrote:
to make life even more difficult, check out this VCO blind test:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1342670


If the 3 oscillators I mentioned (Dotcom/Corsynth/Oakley) will all sound similar then I'll choose the Oakley because its only 1U space. Granted the features differ, but you can always modulate/manipulate that externally, right?
LoveHertz
i should have added price is often a factor given the extreme range of costs for the different makes, so perhaps if money was no object (in my dreams), then qualites like stability, a reasonably clean sine and good tracking would be my criteria.
so far im happy enough with the Q106's I have not to be interested in buying another brand of VCO before buying other useful modules, so for me the luxury of other VCO's will remain extremely linked to how much spare cash I have. Funny it's like that? I still like looking at whats available and reading all the group chatter on these is very entertaining. I wouldn't mind any of the above...color, character and all.
LoveHertz
does anyone miss not having a second exp cv input on there motm 300 or does the FM 1 with selectable linear or exp make up for that?

the Motm and Oakley both look good to me.

see lots of comments on the absence of range switches, is that so bad?
sonicwarrior
LoveHertz wrote:
see lots of comments on the absence of range switches, is that so bad?


That's something you have to decide/answer yourself. If you are asking probably not.

If now every VCO in 5U is included this makes a decision pretty hard. I thought it's been narrowed down already.

For a more perfect sine using a digital VCO or a self oscillating filter would be my suggestions.
LoveHertz
sonicwarrior wrote:
LoveHertz wrote:
see lots of comments on the absence of range switches, is that so bad?




For a more perfect sine using a digital VCO or a self oscillating filter would be my suggestions.


In the audio range yes but not so good as an LFO where a nice sine might be more usefull
Bryan B
Something the Dotcom and Oakley both have are Octave Range switches. I love that feature. I like it more on the Dotcom because you can quickly clack it to the Octave you want with a knob selector, which allows it to be played or performed.

I am a sucker for softsync, so I built the triple soft sync module to control my Dotcom VCO's. That effect really sets the Dotcom VCO apart.

Those 2 reasons are why I kept 3 Dotcom VCO's in my rig.

The Corsynth VCO is awesome and I love having that for it's texture and unique sound.
alternating.bit
I have yet to figure out the soft sync feature - but since I have two Q106's I guess its time I saw what that's about... in the meantime I decided to go with the Oakley slim. If I get another rack/cabinet then I'll get the Corsynth.
NYMo
alternating.bit wrote:
I have yet to figure out the soft sync feature - but since I have two Q106's I guess its time I saw what that's about... in the meantime I decided to go with the Oakley slim. If I get another rack/cabinet then I'll get the Corsynth.


Make that "when" not "if" !
You've only been here a couple of weeks and you've filled one cab already hihi

Cheers
alternating.bit
NYMo wrote:
alternating.bit wrote:
I have yet to figure out the soft sync feature - but since I have two Q106's I guess its time I saw what that's about... in the meantime I decided to go with the Oakley slim. If I get another rack/cabinet then I'll get the Corsynth.


Make that "when" not "if" !
You've only been here a couple of weeks and you've filled one cab already hihi

Cheers


ONE cab?? Hmmm I guess it's time I post an updated pic of my full setup.
And yea, I knew someone would get me for saying "if" lol.
Bryan B
Soft Sync is different on different VCOs and LFOs.

The Soft Sync amount on the Dotcom VCO is basically hard sync on one end of the amount knob (resets the VCO wave every time the input wave is high) and no sync on the other end. The in between amounts set how often the VCO wave is reset. Less will reset the VCO output wave less often and likewise more amount resets it more often until it resets every time the input goes high. There is a sweet spot range and the resulting sound is a bit thick, detuned or even beasty. It reacts differently to different waveforms and speed relationships as well (like having a faster frequency input wave to slower frequency VCO or a slow frequency input and a fast frequency VCO output).
holovicc
Bryan, can you please explain the softsync in more detail?

Eg what do you mean by saying "one or other end" ?

I've found this too, does not sound very musical, but it is related to the subject: triple soft sync module

http://www.modulargrid.net/d/benting-triple-soft-sync

the sound:

http://youtu.be/LAw5KrI8TIo
holovicc
There's a much better video I sould definietly add.

It also shows a modulated soft sync. Now one, who know what exactly the softsync amount knob does can really shed a light what's happening here.

http://youtu.be/-0aNc70rDL0
alternating.bit
holovicc wrote:
There's a much better video I sould definietly add.

It also shows a modulated soft sync. Now one, who know what exactly the softsync amount knob does can really shed a light what's happening here.

http://youtu.be/-0aNc70rDL0


Thanks so much for posting that video link... I must have read Bryan B's description like 5x and was still "HUH??" hmmm.....
Nothing against his description but more of my lack of understanding.
Bryan B
I am no expert, but I have used the Soft Sync effect a lot. The first video you posted was mine (crappy I know) and the Triple Soft Sync was a module I did multiple runs of and sold them here on Muff's. That module connects to 3 Dotcom Q106's which saves space (which is the whole point) and as a side bonus, it allows you to use the same input for all 3 (or separate for each if you insert a jack into each input).

I was baffled for a long time as to how it worked and now I am still baffled but understand it a little bit better.

#1 Your input wave is what causes the VCO to reset. I don't know exactly where in the range it decides to reset. The voltage crosses a threshold and then resets the VCO (depending on the amount knob position).

#2 Hard Sync (already on the Dotcom VCO) resets with every waveform, so it forces the Dotcom VCO wave to only take as long as the input. This is done I think by chopping off the waveform and starting it again.

#3 Soft Sync (on the Dotcom VCO) has a range from not resetting (no sync effect) all the way up to hard sync (resetting the VCO with every wave).

#4 The amount control is what gives you control over the soft sync range.

#5 The amount is basically allowing control over how often the VCO wave resets. So no amount gives you no resets (or so slow I can't notice), a little more amount (turning the knob to the right) it begins to reset more often (still not on every wave) like it is waiting and then resetting. Turning the amount knob more resets the wave more often as you turn until it is resetting the wave every time there is a wave on the input.

Below is my first attempt to make a graphic to describe this visually. I am not all that sure how accurate it actually is. This is from memory from a time I was testing the Soft Sync effect and running the waveform outputs into my Oscilloscope module, so it is at least close from memory. hmmm.....

holovicc
Thank you but i still don't understand this. What function's result the soft sync reset rate on your diagramm? Looks like it's the output of an oscillator and the amount controls its frequency.

Quote:
I don't know exactly where in the range it decides to reset. The voltage crosses a threshold and then resets the VCO (depending on the amount knob position).


As far as i know the hardsync uses phase zero for reset, not a threshold.


I'd like to mention that the reversing-VCO thing is also called softsync.

I'll investigate this thing later...
holovicc
Oh yeah, it definietly will not be right about my statement about the phase. Emailing to Roger right now.
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